Young Justice (Spoilers)

[The Bushranger]

Well, Impulse is Required by Plot. And if you're having Dick Grayson become Nightwing, somebody has to replace him as Robin. (Also, the fact we see Jason Todd's hologram in the memorial grotto hints that that could have been a plot point of some sort had the show not gotten cancelled...)

Also, hopefully Mal will* get more screentime now that he's Guardian.

(* ...would have gotten... )

[BRC]

The Timeskip kind of bugged me as well, but I think that the show is better off for it. I think that the story we are seeing now is better than what we would have been seeing had we gotten a season of mediocre setup. I dislike the device of hiding stuff inside a timeskip on principle, but they're making good television with it.

[mooregeorge02]

Whoa! This is such a long thread to read. But I'm excited to go through every replies here.

[The Bushranger]

The Timeskip kind of bugged me as well, but I think that the show is better off for it. I think that the story we are seeing now is better than what we would have been seeing had we gotten a season of mediocre setup. I dislike the device of hiding stuff inside a timeskip on principle, but they're making good television with it.

There's also the fact that, all else being equal, we wouldn't have gotten to the Reach plot before the show got cancelled.

[Zevox]

Well, Impulse is Required by Plot.

Maybe. So far we've yet to see him do anything crucial to the plot.

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He saved Flash's life, but since Flash has been completely irrelevant to this season that hasn't mattered. Plus we saw a flash-forward showing us that it didn't help change the future any, so it truly was pointless in every respect. They may as well never have bothered putting Flash in any danger at all.

Besides that, all he's done is warn Blue Beetle about how he goes "on mode" and helps the Reach conquer Earth. Which maybe changed how Blue got turned "on mode," or maybe not since Impulse didn't know how that happened in his original timeline anyway. Either way, so far, he's accomplished nothing on that count either.

Like I said, maybe this'll change, as I have a hard time imaging they actually introduced a time-travel subplot for no good reason, but as-is, Impulse hasn't really mattered.

And if you're having Dick Grayson become Nightwing, somebody has to replace him as Robin.

Why? The show certainly hasn't given any support to that notion. Robin's gotten slightly more screen time than most of the other not-Blue-Beetle newbies, but hasn't done anything more with it than the rest of them.

Also, hopefully Mal will* get more screentime now that he's Guardian.

(* ...would have gotten... )

Yeah, completely separate topic, but I'm actually kind of confused about that. How is Mal "Guardian" now? He pretended to be to distract whatever-his-name-was a few episodes ago, but as far as I can tell that's all he did. The helmet doesn't seem to be giving him powers. So, what's going on with that?

[The Bushranger]

If there wasn't a Robin in the show, people would be asking who was Robin now that Dick was Nightwing. It's kinda required if you're having any part of the Bat-family.

As for Mal/Guardian, maybe he just took up the identy and just has whatever abilities he normally had? Would be interesting to have a "superhero" whose only super-skill is Epic Bluffing that He's a Superhero...

[Flickerdart]

That kind of bugged me, but what bugged me more is, if the Light had Psimon ready to just check out Aqualad's brain all along, why they didn't just have him check Aqualad right off the bat to see if he was loyal.

Probably because these are villains - they all have their own agendas, and as we saw with Sportsmaster, don't like one another very much. Black Manta was probably just happy that his son returned to him, and didn't feel like getting a favour from a potential enemy to let some creep rummage around in his son's head. It's also likely that it would have taken Psimon ages to scan Aqualad from top to bottom, since he said he would literally have to sieve through Aqualad's entire mind. It's possible that he did get Psimon just in case, but only had him do a quick scan, and the same magic protecting Tigress made sure that Aqualad's cover wouldn't be blown by anything except the most thorough examination.

[Lord Seth]

Probably because these are villains - they all have their own agendas, and as we saw with Sportsmaster, don't like one another very much.

Which is all the more reason the other villains would want to be certain that Aqualad was on their side.

It's also likely that it would have taken Psimon ages to scan Aqualad from top to bottom, since he said he would literally have to sieve through Aqualad's entire mind.

It seems unlikely. He was able to use his powers to uncover the fact Tigress was Artemis in just a few seconds.

[Zevox]

If there wasn't a Robin in the show, people would be asking who was Robin now that Dick was Nightwing. It's kinda required if you're having any part of the Bat-family.

...but that's not important in any way. The show isn't about the Bat-family, it's about the team of young heroes. If Dick Grayson becomes Nightwing, whether there's a new Robin only matters if he joins the team. And there's no reason to have a new Robin join the team if he's not going to contribute to the story.

Which is all the more reason the other villains would want to be certain that Aqualad was on their side.

And they did - that's why Black Manta had to test Aqualad so many times before he was allowed into the Light.

[BRC]

Which is all the more reason the other villains would want to be certain that Aqualad was on their side.

It seems unlikely. He was able to use his powers to uncover the fact Tigress was Artemis in just a few seconds.

Yes, but it also means that Black Manta is less likely to trust Psimon to muck around in his son's head, getting his secrets and planting subliminal commands.

Plus, it seems like each member of the Light runs their own operations with a fair degree of independence.

[The Bushranger]

...but that's not important in any way. The show isn't about the Bat-family, it's about the team of young heroes. If Dick Grayson becomes Nightwing, whether there's a new Robin only matters if he joins the team. And there's no reason to have a new Robin join the team if he's not going to contribute to the story.

It's important to the fanbase. If you had Robin, then suddenly have Nightwing but no Robin, the fanmail/hate mail is going to come pouring in...

Plus, as I said, the Jason Todd hologram was clearly intended as a Chekov's Gun.

[Connington]

Obviously adding a bunch of new characters meant that a lot of them would't get explored that much. That doesn't mean they were a pointless addition. The purpose of drastically expanding the Team is to show them growing up, taking their place among the other heroes, and training up a new generation. It also gives a taste of the complexity of the modern DC universe, which is kind of Young Justice's shtick.

[Zevox]

It's important to the fanbase. If you had Robin, then suddenly have Nightwing but no Robin, the fanmail/hate mail is going to come pouring in...

But again, that has nothing to do with the show. If some fans are dumb enough to complain about something that completely irrelevant, they can and should simply be ignored. It's not like that would be any kind of big issue that would cost them a bunch of viewers or anything.

Obviously adding a bunch of new characters meant that a lot of them would't get explored that much. That doesn't mean they were a pointless addition. The purpose of drastically expanding the Team is to show them growing up, taking their place among the other heroes, and training up a new generation. It also gives a taste of the complexity of the modern DC universe, which is kind of Young Justice's shtick.

You could maybe argue that it shows one of those things, them training a new generation. Except that they're never really shown training them, unless you count Nightwing's orders before missions as training.

[HalfTangible]

You could maybe argue that it shows one of those things, them training a new generation. Except that they're never really shown training them, unless you count Nightwing's orders before missions as training.

We're never been shown Robin being trained by Batman, or Megan by Martian Manhunter either (A basketball game does not count). We know that Black Canary is still training the group.

Also, I can see it doing much more than just that one.

[Zevox]

We're never been shown Robin being trained by Batman, or Megan by Martian Manhunter either (A basketball game does not count).

True. And your point is?

[kitep]

You could maybe argue that it shows one of those things, them training a new generation. Except that they're never really shown training them, unless you count Nightwing's orders before missions as training.

Season 1 had a lot of training episodes. Now the show is more plot oriented with less introduce-the-characters stuff.

[HalfTangible]

True. And your point is?

That no one argues that Batman didn't train **** Nightwing just because we never saw Batman teach him to throw a Robirang. Which is the equivalent of what you're trying to do - saying that because we never SEE the training, there IS no training.


Moreover, the other reasons are not taken away - showing the complexity of the DC universe, taking their place among other heroes, growing up, etc etc.

[Zevox]

That no one argues that Batman didn't train **** just because we never saw Batman teach him to throw a Robirang. Which is the equivalent of what you're trying to do - saying that because we never SEE the training, there IS no training.

No, it's not. What I'm arguing is that if they want to show the characters training the next generation, as Connington suggested, they need to actually do that. Not just show the next generation working alongside them, which is what they've done.

Moreover, the other reasons are not taken away - showing the complexity of the DC universe, taking their place among other heroes, growing up, etc etc.

Neither of the latter is affected by the presence of the myriad new characters - quite the contrary, showing them taking their place among the others and growing up would ironically be best served by having some of them join the Justice League, as Zatanna and Rocket did, but doing this has the rather problematic side-effect of removing them as main characters of the show, since the focus is on the young team, not the Justice League.

Showing the complexity of the DC universe I suppose counts, but you can't say that wouldn't be there with fewer new characters. The supporting cast has always been quite large, and would still have gotten larger in season 2 even without the new Robin, Wonder Girl, and so forth. That's also a very vague goal, and one without much impact on the story, so it's not one I'm inclined to consider important.

[soir8]

This has always been a good show, but it's been getting really good lately.

I loved watching the latest episode and seeing G. Godfrey turn out to be surprisingly shrewd and useful, and a lot more consistent than we'd been led to expect.

[Mutant Sheep]

No talkie about episode?

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The Beatles are free, the Reach is screwed (The League is perfectly capable of taking Black now, especially if Green sticks around), and the Light has their undefined plan proceeding.

The intro Toyman scene was very entertaining. The banter was very funny, Toyman was... acceptable, and the crowd guy "You almost killed us! Also, the Reach sucks!"
*one sonic thing later*

"That was cool! Aaand the Reach is ok." I love Weisman background banter.

The ending expositions are getting a bit anvilicious though. The guiltoff was clunky, and this explanation could have been more concise. Good though. I was expecting Shazam in the magical cave, but Bialyia is not Egypt. And, to my knowledge, was in West Africa on that map.

Oh, also, YAY EPISODE AND JAIME IS FUNNY.

[BRC]

No talkie about episode?

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The Beatles are free, the Reach is screwed (The League is perfectly capable of taking Black now, especially if Green sticks around), and the Light has their undefined plan proceeding.

The intro Toyman scene was very entertaining. The banter was very funny, Toyman was... acceptable, and the crowd guy "You almost killed us! Also, the Reach sucks!"
*one sonic thing later*

"That was cool! Aaand the Reach is ok." I love Weisman background banter.

The ending expositions are getting a bit anvilicious though. The guiltoff was clunky, and this explanation could have been more concise. Good though. I was expecting Shazam in the magical cave, but Bialyia is not Egypt. And, to my knowledge, was in West Africa on that map.

Oh, also, YAY EPISODE AND JAIME IS FUNNY.

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So the Light was always playing the Reach for suckers. I'm still curious about their endgame.

Maybe the idea is to use the Reach to make everybody on Earth fear Alien invasion. Earth then militarizes into galactic conquerors.

It's a little bit of a stretch to have them plan for the War World, but it fits perfectly into their plan.

The Reach still has some spaceships, and an Army. However, they can't use them unless they want the Lanter Corps to show up.

[Starbuck_II]

Relatring to above post:
What Lantern corps exist in Young Justice world: Just green and red?

I mean on Green Lantern show there are like 5 known types so far.

[The Bushranger]

One might presume that all the Lantern Corps as in the comics exist on Earth-16, we just haven't seen them yet; they're not too relevant to the storyline (I would say yet, but, cancellation...).

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That'd be Red (rage), Orange (avarice; not really a corps as it's just Larfleeze, IT'S ALL HIS), Yellow (fear), Green (will), Blue (hope), Indigo (compassion), and Violet (love - the Star Sapphires).

Also, surprised there was no comment on the apparent faultlines developing among the Reach themselves. The Ambassador and the Scientist are certainly not liking each other too much now.

[Prime32]

Relatring to above post:
What Lantern corps exist in Young Justice world: Just green and red?

I mean on Green Lantern show there are like 5 known types so far.

I'm guessing it's just Green Lanterns + Sinestro, and the other corps haven't formed yet.

[The Bushranger]

Odds are Star Sapphire exists, if not the Corps there yet.

[Flickerdart]

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So the Light was always playing the Reach for suckers. I'm still curious about their endgame.

Maybe the idea is to use the Reach to make everybody on Earth fear Alien invasion. Earth then militarizes into galactic conquerors.

It's a little bit of a stretch to have them plan for the War World, but it fits perfectly into their plan.

The Reach still has some spaceships, and an Army. However, they can't use them unless they want the Lanter Corps to show up.

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The War World probably wasn't part of their plan per se - they just figured that the Reach wouldn't be the only people to come a-knocking after the show they had the Justice League put on, and that whatever other menace would show up would be powerful enough to get the Reach to show their hand.

[BRC]

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The War World probably wasn't part of their plan per se - they just figured that the Reach wouldn't be the only people to come a-knocking after the show they had the Justice League put on, and that whatever other menace would show up would be powerful enough to get the Reach to show their hand.

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it's also possible they could show the Reach's hand for them.

Black Manta is at the bottom of the ocean, Aquaman is still on earth. Had the War World not shown up they could have led an Atlantian Patrol to the Reach fleet easily enough.

Or had Lexcorp "arrange" for a scientific expedition to discover the fleet. Any number of methods.

The destruction of the Reach fleet was unnecessary, but useful. The Reach can only claim a planet if they are invited to do so, hence their whole buddy-buddy routine in the first place. The moment the Reach Fleet was discovered the Reach lose their credibility, and with it their invitation.

As I see it, the Light's Plan

Step 1: Make the Justice League go AWOL for the Trial.
Step 2: Invite the Reach to earth.
Step 3: The Reach reveal themselves and try to buddy up to Earth governments.
Step 4: The Reach's Military fleet is revealed by some means.
Step 5: World governments yell at the Reach, maybe some violence breaks out. Perhaps the Bialian army very publicly blows up some Reach. The Reach are forced to decide between invasion (Thus breaking their treaty with the GLC) and leaving.
Step 6: The Near-invasion by the Reach makes everybody incredibly nervous about Alien Invasion. Humanity Militarizes into Galactic Conquerors.
Somewhere in there they steal the Reach's research into superpowers and give it to brain-dude. Humanity gets an army of Lex-tech equipped soldiers, with superheros leading the charge against a hostile universe.

The arrival of the War World just means that Humanity gets to kick off the "Galactic Conquest" game with a superweapon.

[The Bushranger]

Recall that Vandal Savage explicitly manipulated Mongul into investigating the Reach prence on Earth with a few choice words at the JL trial...

[BRC]

Recall that Vandal Savage explicitly manipulated Mongul into investigating the Reach prence on Earth with a few choice words at the JL trial...

I don't recall VS actually saying anything. One of Mongul's buddies said he should do something about earth. VS saw it happen and smiled, apparently confident that the combined forces of the remaining Superheros and the Reach could stop the War World.

[smuchmuch]

I don't recall VS actually saying anything. One of Mongul's buddies said he should do something about earth.

Nope it was Savage who whispered it in his ear, you didn't recognize his voice ?

Also, surprised there was no comment on the apparent faultlines developing among the Reach themselves. The Ambassador and the Scientist are certainly not liking each other too much now.

More than that, the refusal of the mbmassador to call Black beetle was a major mistake taht seemed entirely motvated by arogance and personal distate, not much love between those two to either it seems.
I'm wondering if the accumultation of mistakes and the growing tension may not eventualy prompt the scientist to change some of BB paramters so he could take thing into his own hands.