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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by stainboy View Post
    Monks are good at saves, I agree there.

    Most monks don't need Wis though, class description be damned. Stunning Fist is terrible, and mathematically once you suck at AC you're better off trading every single point for something else and finding other ways to stay alive (like miss chance or tons of HP). Dex isn't that important for a vanilla monk either, at least not any more important than it is for anyone else. Really if you're playing a Core-only monk your best bet is to stat like a barbarian.
    And be worse than said Barbarian in every way. Which is why Monks are terrible.

  2. - Top - End - #332
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

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  3. - Top - End - #333
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Elitarismo
    Comments on Monk
    No, because obviously Monks are Tier 1 for a reason.


  4. - Top - End - #334
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Probably already been mentioned, but sample NPCs who don't follow the rules the writer just laid out (I believe the Abjurant Champion has Mage Armour affected by all his lovely class features).
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Bend Reality's lazy copy-paste from Limited Wish: it notes several times that you can't use its various non-psion-power options to cast spells, but then says: "when bend reality duplicates a spell with a material component, you must pay additional XP equal to the value of the material component divided by 5." So can you, or can't you?
    Quote Originally Posted by JaronK View Post
    Frankly, a Wizard can suck even more than a Fighter could ever dream of sucking. A Fighter can stab himself to death, but only a Wizard could Plane Shift to some horrible far realm to be tortured for an eternity of insanity.


  6. - Top - End - #336
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    One billion sheets of paper still weigh nothing.

    Mundane fire is incapable of harming ordinary wood, since fire damage is halved against objects and it only deals 1d6 damage in the first place, against the 5 hardness of wood.
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  7. - Top - End - #337
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Drahcir View Post
    No, because obviously Monks are Tier 1 for a reason.

    Hey! they have one niche! That's something right?

  8. - Top - End - #338
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Bend Reality's lazy copy-paste from Limited Wish: it notes several times that you can't use its various non-psion-power options to cast spells, but then says: "when bend reality duplicates a spell with a material component, you must pay additional XP equal to the value of the material component divided by 5." So can you, or can't you?
    reality revision has the same problem. it can't duplicate spells, but it can revive the dead by duplicating resurrection.

  9. - Top - End - #339
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    If you have an ability/spell that means you can keep acting while in negative HP, you are immortal.
    Nowhere does it say that a Dead character cannot take actions :)

  10. - Top - End - #340
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by generalcharon View Post
    If you have an ability/spell that means you can keep acting while in negative HP, you are immortal.
    Nowhere does it say that a Dead character cannot take actions :)
    If your HP is less than 0, your non-lethal damage (0) exceeds it and you fall unconscious.
    Quote Originally Posted by JaronK View Post
    Frankly, a Wizard can suck even more than a Fighter could ever dream of sucking. A Fighter can stab himself to death, but only a Wizard could Plane Shift to some horrible far realm to be tortured for an eternity of insanity.


  11. - Top - End - #341
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Then Die-hard stops working.

    -5 hp is less than 0 non lethal. Thus can't act.

    However, if it is an exception...

    Then we use Rage claws, with 1 essentia invested. It states you act normally until -12 HP.

    Guess what HP you are always at if you're dead? -10HP
    Thus, you auto-revive when you die.

  12. - Top - End - #342
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    A new one.

    Shields have ACF, but you only need 1 free hand to cast.

  13. - Top - End - #343
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    As per DMG guidelines, a small town of what, 900 people has, at all times, around 50 wands of CLW in stock -- as well as any other item, mundane or magical, costing less than 800GP.
    Last edited by Firechanter; 2011-09-21 at 03:49 AM.
    So you know, university Physics D&D 3.5 Optimization is essentially three seven years of this discussion among like-minded enthusiasts. Done with supercomputers, access to the textsplatbook collections of five continents and thirty languages with thousands of classes, prestige classes, feats and spells.
    On four hours sleep a night.
    With no sex.
    You're not going to find the loophole these guys missed.

  14. - Top - End - #344
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    If your HP is less than 0, your non-lethal damage (0) exceeds it and you fall unconscious.
    So we demand proof that being "dead" means you can't act but are prepared to accept without question that being "unconscious" will be a hindrance?

    Nowhere does it say that an unconscious can't take actions.
    Knocked out and helpless. Unconsciousness can result from having current hit points between -1 and -9, or from nonlethal damage in excess of current hit points.
    But wait! "Helpless" also has a definition (even if "knocked out" doesn't).

    Helpless:

    A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (-5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks gets no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.

    As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. An enemy can also use a bow or crossbow, provided he is adjacent to the target. The attacker automatically hits and scores a critical hit. (A rogue also gets her sneak attack damage bonus against a helpless foe when delivering a coup de grace.) If the defender survives, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die.

    Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity.

    Creatures that are immune to critical hits do not take critical damage, nor do they need to make Fortitude saves to avoid being killed by a coup de grace.
    Emphasis mine.

    Ability Damage:

    The character has permanently lost 1 or more ability score points. The character can regain drained points only through magical means. A character with Strength 0 falls to the ground and is helpless. A character with Dexterity 0 is paralyzed. A character with Constitution 0 is dead. A character with Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma 0 is unconscious.
    Emphasis mine.

    Paralyzed:

    A paralyzed character is frozen in place and unable to move or act. A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions. A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A paralyzed swimmer can’t swim and may drown. A creature can move through a space occupied by a paralyzed creature—ally or not. Each square occupied by a paralyzed creature, however, counts as 2 squares.
    Again, emphasis mine.

    So what can we see?
    A "dead" character may not take actions apart from purely mental ones.

    Thus, psionics is broken. QED.
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  15. - Top - End - #345
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Similarly, any caster who doesn't have to use an implement or ritual for preparing spells or getting slots back, and who has lots of Silent Still spells.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by deuxhero View Post
    A new one.

    Shields have ACF, but you only need 1 free hand to cast.
    That seems fine to me. A big shield throws off your balance, and maybe you'd have to swing that hand around a lot to cast and thus the shield could get in the way sometimes.

    JaronK

  17. - Top - End - #347
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Mithral Buckler ftw.
    So you know, university Physics D&D 3.5 Optimization is essentially three seven years of this discussion among like-minded enthusiasts. Done with supercomputers, access to the textsplatbook collections of five continents and thirty languages with thousands of classes, prestige classes, feats and spells.
    On four hours sleep a night.
    With no sex.
    You're not going to find the loophole these guys missed.

  18. - Top - End - #348
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Firechanter View Post
    Mithral Buckler ftw.
    I prefer Dastana (s?) myself
    Just call me Dusk
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  19. - Top - End - #349
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    I prefer Dastana (s?) myself
    3.0 material is iffy, I never trust it.
    Mithral Bucklers are at least 3.5.

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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    I prefer Dastana (s?) myself
    Really? 'cause I just use both. If they're gonna be stupid enough to print an item that violates basic stacking like that, I'm gonna run with it.

  21. - Top - End - #351
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by JaronK View Post
    That seems fine to me. A big shield throws off your balance, and maybe you'd have to swing that hand around a lot to cast and thus the shield could get in the way sometimes.

    JaronK
    However, there are no rules for Arcane Spell Failure for holding in your hand any large and bulky item which is not a shield. You can cast spells just fine while holding a dumbbell, or a ladder, or a sack of treasure, for example. A buckler? Heaven forbid, no.

  22. - Top - End - #352
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    Really? 'cause I just use both. If they're gonna be stupid enough to print an item that violates basic stacking like that, I'm gonna run with it.
    I do it more for the mental image than anything; but if they stack
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  23. - Top - End - #353
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladislav View Post
    However, there are no rules for Arcane Spell Failure for holding in your hand any large and bulky item which is not a shield. You can cast spells just fine while holding a dumbbell, or a ladder, or a sack of treasure, for example. A buckler? Heaven forbid, no.
    Animated shields also contribute to ASF, so it pretty explicity doesn't have to do with you holding anything. I've always just ripped off Runescape's explanation that the bulk of the armor itself traps magical energies. It makes as much sense as anything.
    Last edited by flumphy; 2011-09-21 at 12:32 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #354
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by flumphy View Post
    as much sense as anything.
    In other words, none whatsoever

    Which is why it's in this thread

  25. - Top - End - #355
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladislav View Post
    In other words, none whatsoever

    Which is why it's in this thread
    No argument there.

  26. - Top - End - #356
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Melee can't have nice things, so as soon as the magic detects that the caster is using trappings of melee (armour, shields) it begins to call shenanigans. The concept of "arcane spell failure" was created to explain this phenomenon.
    Quote Originally Posted by JaronK View Post
    Frankly, a Wizard can suck even more than a Fighter could ever dream of sucking. A Fighter can stab himself to death, but only a Wizard could Plane Shift to some horrible far realm to be tortured for an eternity of insanity.


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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Most of the DnD armor rules don't make sense (starting with the fact that something designed to soften blows and reduce sheer impact makes you less likely to be hit).
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  28. - Top - End - #358
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by gorfnab View Post
    Not necessarily a dysfunctional rule but two obvious errors.

    Favored Souls do not have Knowledge: Religion as a class skill. How are they supposed to know anything about the deity that gives them their power?

    Dragon Shamans do not have Knowledge: Arcana as a class skill. How are they supposed to know anything about the dragons that give them their power?
    Core: Arcane Archers don't get Knowledge (arcana).

  29. - Top - End - #359
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by jindra34 View Post
    Most of the DnD armor rules don't make sense (starting with the fact that something designed to soften blows and reduce sheer impact makes you less likely to be hit).
    It makes perfect sense. A miss generated by AC=Attack failed to penetrate armor.

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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Well, that's just typical for D&D. Most games implement armour as damage reduction, and more experienced characters are more difficult to hit.
    In D&D, armour makes you more difficult to hit, and experience makes you able to take more damage. It's weird, but I guess this "being different" was part of the reason that made D&D so successful back then.
    So you know, university Physics D&D 3.5 Optimization is essentially three seven years of this discussion among like-minded enthusiasts. Done with supercomputers, access to the textsplatbook collections of five continents and thirty languages with thousands of classes, prestige classes, feats and spells.
    On four hours sleep a night.
    With no sex.
    You're not going to find the loophole these guys missed.

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