"Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

[nedz]

Unfortunately, this is true, which is why I quoted the relevant passage for the enjoyment of those who have a later version that fixed the typo.

There was an incident in a game I was playing in a few years ago where someone read a rule out of their PH, the rest of us thought that it was wrong and when we looked it up in our PHs the wording was different. I'm dammed if I can remember what it was though.

[Claudius Maximus]

There are different editions of the PH - unfortunately in mine they fixed this one. I have come across other differences between editions, even in actual rules.

A great example of this is the Choker in the Monster Manual. In some copies (and the SRD), it has an ability called Quickness that grants it extra actions. In others, including my copy, it's gone.

[RedWarrior0]

Creatures with darkvision can't see normally in shadowy lighting. In fact, there's even a Shadowcaster Mystery that grants LLV, and the class gains darkvision as a feature.

[sonofzeal]

Creatures with darkvision can't see normally in shadowy lighting. In fact, there's even a Shadowcaster Mystery that grants LLV, and the class gains darkvision as a feature.

LLV, unlike Darkvision, has no maximum range. A creature with Darkvision might see perfectly out to 60', and see as well as a human does beyond that, but an Elf would have better vision in that range. So LLV is still useful for the 95% of Darkvisions that have a maximum range.

[John Campbell]

Multiple concealment conditions (such as a defender in a dog and under the effect of a blur spell) do not stack.

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's total darkness, so if you don't have darkvision, you're blind, so your book gains a 50% miss chance, and you can't make Spot checks to read it.

[Taelas]

Undead can gain NI hit points by staying on the positive energy plane. By RAW, you must make a Fortitude save to avoid dying from overexposure to positive energy, which is represented by fast healing. Undead can benefit from fast healing, and are not required to make Fortitude saves unless objects are also affected. (This was alluded to, but not actually described, in the start of the thread.)

A vorpal sword is no better than a non-vorpal sword for executioners; making a coup-de-grace grants you a free critical hit without rolling, but vorpal swords only decapitate their targets on a natural 20. I find this weird, but hilarious.

[Zok72]

I know it's just an extension of the failures of the knowledge rules, but a +14 bonus allows you to identify any disease and you're decently likely to figure it out just by rolling (assuming any organism can be identified with knowledge). As an extension of this, do soulknifes (who can attack any enemy creature within reach in a kind of super whirlwind attack) suddenly become usefull because they can attack bacteria and viruses thus killing all diseases?

Or how about this, the average sailor definietly can't identify a whale, and probably can't even identify a shark. I'm not even sure he can identify a ship because of his lack of ranks in knowledge:architecture and engineering (but i'm less sure about that). On the other hand, half of the peasents in the world can identify even the rarest insect. In fact, a unique insect (as in only 1 exists) is significantly easier to identify than a horse.

[Flickerdart]

Well, a bacterium is certainly "an opponent", in the sense that it can harm you, but the soulknife would need one hell of an attack bonus to hit it, and then it would still do no damage because it's a swarm and cares not for your piddly weapon damage.

[Heliomance]

I know it's just an extension of the failures of the knowledge rules, but a +14 bonus allows you to identify any disease and you're decently likely to figure it out just by rolling (assuming any organism can be identified with knowledge). As an extension of this, do soulknifes (who can attack any enemy creature within reach in a kind of super whirlwind attack) suddenly become usefull because they can attack bacteria and viruses thus killing all diseases?

Or how about this, the average sailor definietly can't identify a whale, and probably can't even identify a shark. I'm not even sure he can identify a ship because of his lack of ranks in knowledge:architecture and engineering (but i'm less sure about that). On the other hand, half of the peasents in the world can identify even the rarest insect. In fact, a unique insect (as in only 1 exists) is significantly easier to identify than a horse.

Why are insects easy to identify?

[sonofzeal]

Why are insects easy to identify?

How many insects have you seen that would have more than 1 HD? I mean, yes Australian spiders are big enough to have their own health bars, but I'm pretty sure that just means 1 HD as opposed to 1/8 HD for normal spiders and 1/4 HD for big ones and 1/2 HD for tarantulas and the like.

And since Knowledge DCs are based on HD.....

[Fengle]

Inspired by the "easy exploits", I'd like to collect things in this thread where the rules simply fail to achieve what was (most likely) intended, and thus requires houseruling to make it work.

Examples:

- Monks are not proficient with Unarmed Strikes.

- Ruby Knight Vindicators have to expend a Standard Action to gain an additional Swift Action. (Reason: since the Divine Impetus description says nothing about what kind of Action is required, it defaults to Standard Action, as for any Su Ability that doesn't specify otherwise)

Bring it on. =)

I see people post that monks don't get imp. unarmed strike quite often. Was that the case in 3.0? It's listed as a bonus feat at 1st level in my 3.5 phb on pg. 41 under Unarmed Strike (in bold text no less) and seems hard to miss.

[noparlpf]

I see people post that monks don't get imp. unarmed strike quite often. Was that the case in 3.0? It's listed as a bonus feat at 1st level in my 3.5 phb on pg. 41 under Unarmed Strike (in bold text no less) and seems hard to miss.

I've never seen anybody claim that Monks don't get Imp. UaS. What we're saying is that, if you look at the list of weapons they're proficient with, Unarmed Strike is not on it, and they're not just proficient with all simple weapons because they get a specific list.

[Qwertystop]

I see people post that monks don't get imp. unarmed strike quite often. Was that the case in 3.0? It's listed as a bonus feat at 1st level in my 3.5 phb on pg. 41 under Unarmed Strike (in bold text no less) and seems hard to miss.

No, they get Improved Unarmed Strike, they're just not proficient with it. There's a difference.



Favored Souls don't have Knowledge:(Religion)

[noparlpf]

Truenamers.

Edit: They've probably been mentioned, but I'm making one for a one-shot.

Also: Skills. I bet I've mentioned this before, but now I've broken Balance too.
Highest checks I've made with fair regularity:
Jump: DC 32
Balance: DC 27

[Fengle]

I've never seen anybody claim that Monks don't get Imp. UaS. What we're saying is that, if you look at the list of weapons they're proficient with, Unarmed Strike is not on it, and they're not just proficient with all simple weapons because they get a specific list.

Ah I see what you're saying. Thanks for the clarification.

[flumphy]

How many insects have you seen that would have more than 1 HD? I mean, yes Australian spiders are big enough to have their own health bars, but I'm pretty sure that just means 1 HD as opposed to 1/8 HD for normal spiders and 1/4 HD for big ones and 1/2 HD for tarantulas and the like.

And since Knowledge DCs are based on HD.....

Which, in turn means that it's easier to identify that unique insect than say, a regular old giant bee.

[Qwertystop]

Which, in turn means that it's easier to identify that unique insect than say, a regular old giant bee.

You can identify a regular wasp easily, but a giant wasp? No idea what that huge wasp-shaped thing is.

[Taelas]

Oddly enough, that isn't true for any monk that has a type other than Humanoid.
Heck, some subtypes get proficiency with simple weapons, but for Humanoid, it's "simple weapons, or by class".

[Qwertystop]

On the other hand, a natural weapon doesn't count as an unarmed strike. Many non-humanoid player races will have a natural weapon, and therefore may have no reason to use their unarmed strike.

[Venger]

Oddly enough, that isn't true for any monk that has a type other than Humanoid.
Heck, some subtypes get proficiency with simple weapons, but for Humanoid, it's "simple weapons, or by class".

That is true. essentially, when you are a nonlevelhaving peasant, you are proficient with all simple weapons (note: not commoner, that is a class)

as soon as you take a level in monk, you forget how to use several weapons

as soon as you take a level in barbarian, you forget how to read and write.

if you are a chameleon, you can switch your floating feat to "open minded" and dump all the points into speak language, thus learning 5 languages...

...for 24 hours. you will forget them the next time you change your feat.

[noparlpf]

That is true. essentially, when you are a nonlevelhaving peasant, you are proficient with all simple weapons (note: not commoner, that is a class)

as soon as you take a level in monk, you forget how to use several weapons

as soon as you take a level in barbarian, you forget how to read and write

Not quite true. Before you take that level, you don't have any levels or proficiencies. As soon as you hit "adult" for your race, you take a single level in a class immediately.
At level 1, you can be either a Commoner OR a Barbarian OR a Monk. Before level 1, you don't have your racial proficiencies anyway because you're a kid.

Edit: Of course, there's no "Child" template anyway, so that's just my reading of it. As far as I can tell, before reaching "adult", you just don't have any stats.

[Devmaar]

Not quite true. Before you take that level, you don't have any levels or proficiencies. As soon as you hit "adult" for your race, you take a single level in a class immediately.
At level 1, you can be either a Commoner OR a Barbarian OR a Monk. Before level 1, you don't have your racial proficiencies anyway because you're a kid.

Edit: Of course, there's no "Child" template anyway, so that's just my reading of it. As far as I can tell, before reaching "adult", you just don't have any stats.

It's possible with RHD

[Venger]

It's possible with RHD

that was what I was referring to. if you have 1 HD of humanoid and you are an adult, you can "trade" that in for a character level, which is what I was talking about, thereby losing a couple of proficiencies (or the ability to read and write) based on your class.

in barbarian school, you learn how to forget to read and write

[Doug Lampert]

that was what I was referring to. if you have 1 HD of humanoid and you are an adult, you can "trade" that in for a character level, which is what I was talking about, thereby losing a couple of proficiencies (or the ability to read and write) based on your class.

in barbarian school, you learn how to forget to read and write

No. From the SRD

Humanoids with 1 Hit Die exchange the features of their humanoid Hit Die for the class features of a PC or NPC class. Humanoids of this sort are presented as 1st-level warriors, which means that they have average combat ability and poor saving throws.

Humanoids with more than 1 Hit Die are the only humanoids who make use of the features of the humanoid type.
Features
A humanoid has the following features (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

•8-sided Hit Dice, or by character class.
•Base attack bonus equal to ¾ total Hit Dice (as cleric).
•Good Reflex saves (usually; a humanoid’s good save varies).
•Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, or by character class.

Traits
A humanoid possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

•Proficient with all simple weapons, or by character class.
•Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, or by character class. If a humanoid does not have a class and wears armor, it is proficient with that type of armor and all lighter types. Humanoids not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Humanoids are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
•Humanoids breathe, eat, and sleep.

A 1 HD humanoid can NEVER have a racial HD. It's always a class level because the creature is expressly forbidden to have a racial HD or to make use of the features of a racial HD (such as proficiencies or the HD itself).

[noparlpf]

No. From the SRD


A 1 HD humanoid can NEVER have a racial HD. It's always a class level because the creature is expressly forbidden to have a racial HD or to make use of the features of a racial HD (such as proficiencies or the HD itself).

That's what I meant.

[John Campbell]

[...]and then it would still do no damage because it's a swarm and cares not for your piddly weapon damage.

That one has always annoyed me. My low-level party once got attacked by a swarm of centipedes, and because I was a half-orc, with darkvision, and so didn't spend any of my pitiful starting cash on short-tooth requirements like lamps and lamp oil, I had absolutely nothing I could do to affect them. So I came up with the bright idea of lying down and rolling over them. (They were swarming me anyway, why not stop, drop, and roll?) But, nope, this does nothing, because it's weapon damage! Screw you, barbarian! Only the sorcerer gets to be useful this fight!

So, seriously, those centipedes are totally unaffected by having 350 pounds of armored barbarian roll over them? I'm not crushing whole swathes of them with my weight? This does absolutely nothing to harm them because they're a swarm?

[noparlpf]

That one has always annoyed me. My low-level party once got attacked by a swarm of centipedes, and because I was a half-orc, with darkvision, and so didn't spend any of my pitiful starting cash on short-tooth requirements like lamps and lamp oil, I had absolutely nothing I could do to affect them. So I came up with the bright idea of lying down and rolling over them. (They were swarming me anyway, why not stop, drop, and roll?) But, nope, this does nothing, because it's weapon damage! Screw you, barbarian! Only the sorcerer gets to be useful this fight!

So, seriously, those centipedes are totally unaffected by having 350 pounds of armored barbarian roll over them? I'm not crushing whole swathes of them with my weight? This does absolutely nothing to harm them because they're a swarm?

I tried this with a swarm of snakes once. I was Large. I accomplished absolutely nothing.
At least in my case the DM used mechanics for this, though. He called it a reflex save. It just had a low DC and the snakes all made it.

[Daftendirekt]

as soon as you take a level in barbarian, you forget how to read and write.

False. I quote:

A barbarian who gains a level in any other class automatically gains literacy. Any other character who gains a barbarian level does not lose the literacy he or she already had.

That DOES point out the idiocy of a barbarian just magically knowing how to read just because he decided he wanted to be sneaky, or rangy, or druidy, etc etc.

[Venger]

False. I quote:



That DOES point out the idiocy of a barbarian just magically knowing how to read just because he decided he wanted to be sneaky, or rangy, or druidy, etc etc.

no, I didn't mean dip barb after being a character, I meant starting out as one before you had any HD

but yes, that's stupid too

No. From the SRD


A 1 HD humanoid can NEVER have a racial HD. It's always a class level because the creature is expressly forbidden to have a racial HD or to make use of the features of a racial HD (such as proficiencies or the HD itself).

Okay, thanks for the explanation, I misunderstood that.

[Taelas]

That reminds me.

Aasimar (and Tiefling) are broken.

You do not exchange your RHD unless you are Humanoid. (Even Monstrous Humanoid doesn't, though there aren't any 1 HD Monstrous Humanoids in the MM. Maybe there is in one of the others, haven't checked.)

The Aasimar and Tiefling examples in the MM are 1st-level warriors, yet they only have 1 HD.

Since they don't exchange any RHD they might have for class levels, they have to have 0 RHD, which doesn't make any sense (which is probably why Humanoids have the whole "exchange" line to begin with).

Pixies have the exchange line too, which is doubly weird, since both grigs and nixies, the other two sprites, have 1 RHD also (actually, grigs only have ½, and how does that work? Do they get half as much of everything, or only hit points?) and have level adjustments, so they can take class levels. So a 1st level nixie rogue has 2 HD, but a 1st level pixie rogue has only one? What? THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

EDIT: Oh, and a pixie Barbarian forgets how to read after taking a level in the class.