"Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

[big teej]

Its the same theory that makes dodge. A feat can be worth +1 AC, therefor exotic armor proficiency gives access to armor with 1 more AC.

I ruled that all those +1 AC feats offer a flat +1 at all times forever ago. (makes feat taxes less painful until I can get around to re-writing all pre-reqs to suit my taste)

[mikau013]

The pathfinder jump rules are pretty crazy.

Action: None. An Acrobatics check is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.

And we all know speaking is a free action, so you can make a jump check as someone throws a fireball at you to get out of the range.

And of course we have this gem

No jump can allow you to exceed your maximum movement for the round.

Which sounds fine, but then you start wondering, what exactly is your maximum movement for the round? Is it normal movement speed? double? running? teleport?

- Edit:
Oh and the CMD rules are really weird too.
You add your special size modifier to it. But any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD.

So if you're large, you gain a +1 special size modifier and a -1 for being large for a net gain of 0.

Though most people houserule it by only applying the +1 modifier because as written it makes no sense.

[Wookie-ranger]

Dont think that has been mentioned:

Lesser Planetouched (such as Lesser Aasimar)

From Player's Guide to Faerun, p.191

Lesser Planetouched
All lesser planetouched have the following trait in common, in addition to all the racial trats detailed elsewhere in this book
-Planetouched: Planetouched are humanoids (not outsiders) with the planetouched subtype. they are susceptible to spells and effects that specifically target both humanoids or outsiders. charm person works against them, so does banishment. This trait replaces the outsider entry in each planetouched description

SRD, Banishment spell

...A banishment spell is a more powerful version of the dismissal spell. It enables you to force extraplanar creatures out of your home plane...

Problem 1: it only affects extraplanar creatures, all planetouched (lesser or not) have the native subtype. it would not affect them anyway since the material plane is their home plane.
Answer 1: it says that this spell specifically affects lesser planetouched, so by RAW it must affect them. you will have a hard time arguing RAI that it does not.

Problem 2: where would they go, if it does affect them? wink out for a round? would they reappear in the same space? would they be send to a random plane? are they send to the plane most closely related to outsider/ element that the Planetouched is associated with? would they reappear in a random location somewhere on the material plane (or within the spells range)?
Answer 2: first, banishment never says that you send them back tho their home plane. So they could be send to some random plane. Dismissal does though, and most DMs would probably send most outsiders back 'where they belong' (RAI). since the material plane is the that place, they are send back there; i mean, back here; where we are already.

[Mustard]

Here's something interesting from Pathfinder -- PRD: Fly:

Check: You generally need only make a Fly check when you are attempting a complex maneuver. Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed. ... Taking any action that violates these rules requires a Fly check.

Nowhere in this paragraph does it mention the means of flight. So, one would conclude that someone flying with the Fly spell active on them would have to make a check to remain hovering if they did not move any distance during their turn. Okay, so what if they fail that check, what happens then?

Try Again: ... If you are using wings and you fail a Fly check by 5 or more, you plummet to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage (see Environment).

All right, so, what if you're not using wings to fly? There is no answer to that question.

Magical flight (that is, not relying on wings) should specifically allow you to hover, and the rest of the rules like doing a 180 degree turn, etc, should apply normally (I infer that the intent was to make magical flight less powerful). But it doesn't say that, so...

[Kazyan]

Not so much a dysfunctional rule, but something to think about.

Fey are supposed to be rather dainty, AFAIK.

An extremely strong (18 - 4(racial) + 2(levels) = 16 str) pixie deals a maximum of (1d2+3)x2 = 10 damage on an unarmed strike's critical, which cannot peirce a pixie's DR.

They can punch each other all day with no consequences.

I will leave the sociological consequences when dealing with non-DR races up to the readers.

[Mystify]

Not so much a dysfunctional rule, but something to think about.

Fey are supposed to be rather dainty, AFAIK.

An extremely strong (18 - 4(racial) + 2(levels) = 16 str) pixie deals a maximum of (1d2+3)x2 = 10 damage on an unarmed strike's critical, which cannot peirce a pixie's DR.

They can punch each other all day with no consequences.

I will leave the sociological consequences when dealing with non-DR races up to the readers.

Who said fey are fragile? They are magical, physical manifestations of nature. They may be graceful and charismatic, but I can't think of any lore I have read that would imply they are fragile.

[Eldan]

And unarmed and natural attacks always go through your own DR, or DR that is similar to it.

[Necroticplague]

And unarmed and natural attacks always go through your own DR, or DR that is similar to it.

I think that only applies when it is explicitly stated, and is actually quite the opposite. Evil outsiders pierce DR as if evil, so they deal less damage to each other than when they fight angels (piercing the angels dr/evil). I think there is some exception to dr/magic, but i can't confirm this. Either way, it doesn't apply to the fey dr/cold iron.

[tyckspoon]

And unarmed and natural attacks always go through your own DR, or DR that is similar to it.

Only for /magic and /Epic. /material does not have that benefit in any form, and /alignment is based on the creature's subtypes- an (Evil) creature can defeat /Evil, but not /Good. However, they are likely to have DR broken by the *opposite* alignment.. which means that, for one of the more absurd examples, the rawest cannonfodder of the Blood War (Dretches and Lemures) are mostly incapable of hurting each other, and just kind of flail around pointlessly until bigger demons/devils show up in the area and kill them all.

[Mystify]

DR/magic means you can penetrate DR/magic with your natural weapons.
DR/epic means you can penetrate DR/epic with your natural weapons.
An alignment subtype allows you to penetrate the corresponding DR.

"Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

...A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that match the subtype(s) of the creature."
Special materials has no similar clause.

[Kazyan]

...Is there a way to get the worms back in the can?

[Particle_Man]

Not so much a dysfunctional rule, but something to think about.

Fey are supposed to be rather dainty, AFAIK.

An extremely strong (18 - 4(racial) + 2(levels) = 16 str) pixie deals a maximum of (1d2+3)x2 = 10 damage on an unarmed strike's critical, which cannot peirce a pixie's DR.

They can punch each other all day with no consequences.

I will leave the sociological consequences when dealing with non-DR races up to the readers.

Reskin them as Discworld Feegles?

[Ksheep]

Reskin them as Discworld Feegles?

The Nac Mac Feegles would have a STR of about 20 on average, not 16 as a max.

[TypoNinja]

The Spot rules make it impossible to see the moon. -1 for every 10 feet of distance, size modifier tops out at -16 DC for colossal.

Assuming our fictional worlds have a moon a similar distance that gives us a around a 126,000,000 DC spot check to see the moon.

[Amphetryon]

The Spot rules make it impossible to see the moon. -1 for every 10 feet of distance, size modifier tops out at -16 DC for colossal.

Assuming our fictional worlds have a moon a similar distance that gives us a around a 126,000,000 DC spot check to see the moon.

It's similarly impossible to determine where the stars are, including the Sun.

[Ksheep]

"OK, so to get to that other city, all you have to do is head towards that mountain, turn left once you reach the other side, and follow the line of warning towers. What do you mean you can't see the mountain?"

[Jack_Simth]

...Is there a way to get the worms back in the can?

Kinda. It's part of the DM's job to realize rule absurdities when they come up, and house rule them as appropriate (if you look hard enough, this actually is a rule in the DMG). So you can see the stars, drowning doesn't heal you, and no, you can't go 100 miles as a series of free action by repeated fast mounting / dismounting a very long line of horses.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

The Spot rules make it impossible to see the moon. -1 for every 10 feet of distance, size modifier tops out at -16 DC for colossal.

Assuming our fictional worlds have a moon a similar distance that gives us a around a 126,000,000 DC spot check to see the moon.

Technically, the Spot rules are only used to find hiding things and determine encounter starting distance, so unless you animate and awaken the moon and give it Hide ranks (which is an excellent plan for a villain, by the way), you're fine.

Also, in the ELH there are virtual size categories above colossal for epic dragons, so if we consider the moon to be a Colossal+++++++++++++++++++++++ object, we can extrapolate that it would have a -134,217,728 penalty to Hide, easily counteracting the enormous base Spot DC.

So yes, in D&D, you can in fact see the moon.

[Mystify]

Kinda. It's part of the DM's job to realize rule absurdities when they come up, and house rule them as appropriate (if you look hard enough, this actually is a rule in the DMG). So you can see the stars, drowning doesn't heal you, and no, you can't go 100 miles as a series of free action by repeated fast mounting / dismounting a very long line of horses.

To be fair, the last one is covered by the rules with the "there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn". So it doesn't even need rule 0 to be invoked. Maybe I'm a typical, but I only consider something a legitimate absurdity when it requires rule 0 to fix. If there is a rule covering it, even a vague one like that, then its not an absurdity.

[imneuromancer]

Favored Soul is like the Wizzard, Rincewind. They've 'powers', but don't know where it comes from.

I think the Favored Soul was specifically designed to be nerfed. There is no way that the creators of the game could strip them of any way to get into prestige classes without a great deal of thought.

Things stripped to make the FS: domains, heavy armor, turn undead, knowledge:religion, two different casting stats (wisdom AND charisma)

In return they get spontaneous casting (which is not an improvement on prepared casting), weapon focus with a deity weapon (which you could get with the War Domain if you wanted), and a handful of to-late-to-be-effective powers.

If you want to be a spontaneous casting cleric, use the Unearthed Arcana rules for them. They will retain all of the neat things that clerics get, they just do spontaneous instead of prepared casting.

(Ranting because a new player with whom I am playing took FS cause it looked cool, and then has been frustrated ever since at their limitations as opposed to our party cleric).

[Chronos]

The bit about flying reminded me of another one. Magic of Incarnum has several soulmelds which grant flight, and the flying speed is proportional to the amount of invested essentia. So if you empty all of the essentia out of it, your fly speed is 0, and therefore you can hover without falling, because even not moving at all, you're still moving your speed.

[Necroticplague]

On a similar note:
There's a feat (air heritage or something like that) that allows you take feats that normally require a flight speed, despite not having one. Most feats that require a flight speed take advantage of it, but their is an exception:Hover. So while you have to jump into the air, you can float once you're up there (or stop your fall when you get knocked off something).

[Steward]

That's actually pretty cool! You can't fly, but you can ride the wind!

[Phaederkiel]

Most of the DnD armor rules don't make sense (starting with the fact that something designed to soften blows and reduce sheer impact makes you less likely to be hit).

As someone who gets to wear quite a lot of armor, I can assure you that it either blocks a hit, or doesn't. This is why the books on swordfighting (Thalhoffer, for example) have often sections on schwertringen, grappling with the sword.

This is why many swords used against armored opponents had an unsharpened piece of blade a bit under the point of repercussion, here the swords were gripped in close combat.

It is really funny to look through these texts, the techniques described look appalingly stupid.



I do not like the armor penalties very much. These are quite realistic, but much too high. When a suit of armor is well made, you can move quite good in it. Not Judo-rolling good, but I think cartwheels wouldn't be out of question.



I love the rules on ghosts. The sample creature has a longsword attack of which cannot be discerned if it should go against touch or not and why it obviously does damage with strenght bonus included.

The concealment rules are another bugger.
What happens if the Ghost is within the ground when he attacks?
do these concealments stack? does one give +4 AC, the other 50% misschance? do they give 75% misschance? Is the tip of the lance part of the ghost while he charges by? If it is, does it get some Acbonus for being tiny?

Can the ghost be covered in the ground and still do his (obviously physical) attack? does this attack have 50% misschance with a non-ghosttouch weapon?

To these and some more questions, even the playgrounders involved could not give me an answer.

[Flickerdart]

There was a video somewhere of a guy doing cartwheels in plate, so there's that.

[Wookie-ranger]

As someone who gets to wear quite a lot of armor, I can assure you that it either blocks a hit, or doesn't. This is why the books on swordfighting (Thalhoffer, for example) have often sections on schwertringen, grappling with the sword.

This is why many swords used against armored opponents had an unsharpened piece of blade a bit under the point of repercussion, here the swords were gripped in close combat.

It is really funny to look through these texts, the techniques described look appalingly stupid.

I do not like the armor penalties very much. These are quite realistic, but much too high. When a suit of armor is well made, you can move quite good in it. Not Judo-rolling good, but I think cartwheels wouldn't be out of question.

Arma member?

well, i agree for the most part. full-plate harnish against a longsword is very effective.

if i would evaluate armor rules realistically and not for the game element (that they are) i would laugh, a lot, and keep laughing, until i die. because armor simply don't consider the weapon being used.
If i wear a chain shirt, a samurai sword or nihonto would do nearly no damage (just like a most slashing weapons) but a quarter staff or a rapier would hurt the same as without.
but if i would be wearing a full-plate most arrows would simply bounce off (eventhough bolts from a heavy crossbow can still go through); and unless you are prone or cannot move nearly any piercing weapon would do no damage at at all. while a heavy mace might knock me to the ground, and therefore vulnerable to said piercing attacks, that's why late medieval and renascence always carried a long slim dagger (to pock the left armpit).

if you think about it, some forms of armor (not including magical armor) pretty much negate some types of attack, while at the same time being nearly useless against others.
in the real world that is.

[Agent 451]

I can beat your butt with this stick I found on the ground, but if i lash some antlers to the tip of it, It is suddenly strange and foreign.

Although I agree with you for the most part, this one makes sense. It isn't a quarterstaff anymore, it has sets of either caribou or megaloceros antlers. For reference, caribou antlers alone can grow to be upwards of a meter long and can weight 30+ pounds (now imagine the megaloceros!). The sugliin itself weighs 20 pounds, as opposed to a quarterstaff weighing 4 (balanced) pounds. I think the total weight, combined with the very unbalanced form of the weapon make it a perfect qualifier for being an exotic weapon

Not that you'd ever even use it, except for adding flavor in a primitive setting. Even then...

[Heliomance]

[white rider]

The picture on page 291 in the PHB shows Jozan, cleric of Pelor, casting symbol of pain, an evil spell. Earlier, the book shows the same cleric turning undead.

[Dusk Eclipse]

The picture on page 291 in the PHB shows Jozan, cleric of Pelor, casting symbol of pain, an evil spell. Earlier, the book shows the same cleric turning undead.

Pelor: The Burning Hate

for your reading pleasure.