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  1. - Top - End - #901
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection


  2. - Top - End - #902
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    I may have missed this rule's inclusion earlier; if so, apologies.

    By strict RAW, a prone Wizard cannot fire off any spells that require a Ranged Attack roll unless the spell is shot from a crossbow.
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  3. - Top - End - #903
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I may have missed this rule's inclusion earlier; if so, apologies.

    By strict RAW, a prone Wizard cannot fire off any spells that require a Ranged Attack roll unless the spell is shot from a crossbow.
    Wait what?
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  4. - Top - End - #904
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Wait what?
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Prone

    The character is on the ground. An attacker who is prone has a -4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A defender who is prone gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a -4 penalty to AC against melee attacks.
    My emphasis. Spells that require a Ranged Attack roll are "weapon-like spells." It's certainly reasonable to parse it differently than the strict RAW, and almost definitely not RAI, but RAI isn't what this thread's about.
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    wink Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Wow.... certainly dysfunctional. And now tripping casters is an interesting option, not that it will work well past the first few levels and even then, from my understanding they can still cast other types of spells.
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Wow.... certainly dysfunctional. And now tripping casters is an interesting option, not that it will work well past the first few levels and even then, from my understanding they can still cast other types of spells.
    I believe I may have Prone Attack irl. I've been tripped and continued fighting unhindered. Better shot at knees = bonus to trip, apparently.
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Here's a couple details I found odd lately:

    1. A high-level wizard or sorcerer can multiclass to Factotum and gain Arcane Dilletante. To quote the class feature's description, "you acquire a vague understanding of magic. You know that with a few weird hand
    gestures and an array of grunts and bizarre words, you can conjure up something that looks like a spell." This makes a bit less sense when the character already knows how to cast real spells.

    2. Up there with drown-healing: A character who is Fatigued cannot charge or run. A character who is Exhausted, however, apparently can. He'll move at half speed, but I don't see anything prohibiting him from charging a distance equal to his normal speed in order to attack with a +2 bonus (which he could really use, being at -6 strength).

    3. This is just a typo so I probably shouldn't include it here, but just for laughs: in the PHB 2, the Duskblade class is proficient with all martial weapons, but not simple weapons.

  8. - Top - End - #908
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Here's a couple details I found odd lately:

    1. A high-level wizard or sorcerer can multiclass to Factotum and gain Arcane Dilletante. To quote the class feature's description, "you acquire a vague understanding of magic. You know that with a few weird hand
    gestures and an array of grunts and bizarre words, you can conjure up something that looks like a spell." This makes a bit less sense when the character already knows how to cast real spells.
    It's not all that strange. Factotums use spell-like abilities which function differently than spells do, and they have a much more limited number of them but select them from the whole list, so a wizard/factotum is essentially experimenting with what he knows of magic and figuring out how to reproduce spells they don't know using a sort of magical "shorthand" of some sort. I picture it like a wizard sitting there trying out variations on spells he knows ("Let's see, 'solenu samatkahl'...nope, how about 'solenu samatkereh'...'solenu samatkohn'...'solenu samatkiir'--oh, hey, greenish flames, it worked!"), finding something that approximates a spell, and using it with the intent to figure out how you get from Spell A to Spell B later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
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    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
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  9. - Top - End - #909
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Off Topic @Pair of Dice
    Was Solenu Samatka Baldur's Gate or NWN? I don't remember, but I find the example hilarious nonetheless.

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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Aharon View Post
    Off Topic @Pair of Dice
    Was Solenu Samatka Baldur's Gate or NWN? I don't remember, but I find the example hilarious nonetheless.
    Neverwinter Nights, and I'm glad someone caught the reference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'DiceLost View Post
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  11. - Top - End - #911
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but, the Dragonscale Husk ACF from Dragon Magic. It seems like the designers wanted to prevent ridiculous ACs. They didn't make it an armor or natural armor bonus, and say you can't usefully wear armor over it and that you count as being in medium armor. No, that would have made too much sense. Instead, they left it untyped and said "This bonus doesn’t stack with any feat, racial trait, or other special ability that would grant you a bonus to Armor Class." this uselessly vague wording seems to mean that it doesn't stack with natural armor from your race, but there is nothing but non-proficiency stopping you from just slapping a suit of armor on top of it.

  12. - Top - End - #912
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Here's something ridiculous from the DMG - the rules for the hardness and hit points of various kinds of walls indicate that "magically reinforced" walls get either +50 HP or double their normal HP, whichever is greater. Just one line up on the table, we have the option of paper walls with 1 hit point. So you can have magically reinforced paper walls with 51 HP. I can just see a low-level barbarian hacking away at a paper wall with his axe, very slowly cutting through this almost-as-tough-as-wood magic paper, creating cuts a few inches long one at a time.
    Last edited by willpell; 2012-10-10 at 01:12 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #913
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Magic annoys those poor little axe wingers.

    It's nice to have seen that though. I had to work out rules for enchanting walls on my own and they were much more expensive. I ended up using the continuous spell effect (SL * CL * 2000) at half off because you can't take the wall with you. Most of this is for 5th to 10th level casters to fortify dungeon walls with Dispel Magic or Dimensional Anchor. Anyone using Dispel Magic is assumed to have a once a day reroll ability, almost any one will do and there are several ways to get it, which gives me an average dispel check of 15+CL for any one random chunk of wall. So my Dispel walls cost ten times as much as the DMG magic walls but are unaffected by spells of less than CL+4 where the DMG walls only get to make a save if one is offered.

    One minor annoyance is that, per the DMG, chalk is as hard as granite and balsa wood is as strong as ebony. Never mind that the soft ones can be worked with a butter knife while the hard ones need hammer and chisel. It sort of mattered because I got to Lightning Bolt the bottom of my player's boat last week, twice, and the local boat building wood is balsa. I just trimmed off two points of hardness and three hp per inch. It was a good thing they were only CL 5 Lightning Bolts otherwise the guys would have been left with an oversized life preserver and a really long swim.

  14. - Top - End - #914
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    Most of this is for 5th to 10th level casters to fortify dungeon walls with Dispel Magic or Dimensional Anchor.
    Dispel doesn't seem like it should work to me somehow....AMF perhaps, at a discount for only extending like an inch from the wall.

    One minor annoyance is that, per the DMG, chalk is as hard as granite and balsa wood is as strong as ebony. Never mind that the soft ones can be worked with a butter knife while the hard ones need hammer and chisel.
    Ooh, ooh! Walls of 24 karat gold that are as strong as steel! You can't take the treasure out of the dungeon because the treasure is the dungeon!!!

  15. - Top - End - #915
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    This is from the Advance Race Guide on the Pathfinder Society PRD.

    This came up because a guy in our group is rewriting the old Tengu race using this guide (and has been allowed a few more RP due to power level of the game). He wanted to add Terrifying Croak as an ability.

    According to RAW no range is specified by this ability, which means when his super Tengu croaks every creature in every plane of the multiverse has to make a Will save or be Shaken.

    We found this to be hilarious and discovered that 300 Tengu is all that would be required to possibly lock down most of the multiverse under the Shaken condition.


    Terrifying Croak (2 RP): Prerequisites: None; Benefit: Members of this race gain the following supernatural ability: Once per hour as a standard action, a member of this race can emit a thunderous croak. Any creature not of its subtype (if humanoid) or type (if another race type) must make a successful Will saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the user's character level + the user's Charisma modifier) or become shaken for 1d4 rounds. A target that successfully saves cannot be affected by the user's terrifying croak for 24 hours. Creatures that are already shaken become frightened for 1d4 rounds instead. This is a sonic, mind-affecting effect.
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  16. - Top - End - #916
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by CreganTur View Post
    This is from the Advance Race Guide on the Pathfinder Society PRD.

    This came up because a guy in our group is rewriting the old Tengu race using this guide (and has been allowed a few more RP due to power level of the game). He wanted to add Terrifying Croak as an ability.

    According to RAW no range is specified by this ability, which means when his super Tengu croaks every creature in every plane of the multiverse has to make a Will save or be Shaken.

    We found this to be hilarious and discovered that 300 Tengu is all that would be required to possibly lock down most of the multiverse under the Shaken condition.
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  17. - Top - End - #917
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    [Insert Homestuck reference]
    ???
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by CreganTur View Post
    ???
    Something about a "Vast Croak" or whatever.
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  19. - Top - End - #919
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    Did he remember to put cross class ranks into knowldege (local)?
    interesting fact: There is no way to identify a creature's class levels in game.

    Adamantine Weapons do not bypass Adamantine DR, as an Adamantine weapon only bypasses Adamantine Damage reduction with upto 20 points of hardness, the average piece of adamantine armor has at least 30 hardness

    Materials gain hardness for each inch of thickness. this means that that a 5*5*5 cube of dirt is harder then your adamantine shovel
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    Adamantine Weapons do not bypass Adamantine DR, as an Adamantine weapon only bypasses Adamantine Damage reduction with upto 20 points of hardness, the average piece of adamantine armor has at least 30 hardness

    Materials gain hardness for each inch of thickness. this means that that a 5*5*5 cube of dirt is harder then your adamantine shovel
    Materials gain hp for each inch of thickness, hardness remains unchanged. Adamantine has 20 hardness, and ignores hardness of less than 20, so it does not ignore adamantine hardness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  21. - Top - End - #921
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie_p View Post
    Materials gain hp for each inch of thickness, hardness remains unchanged. Adamantine has 20 hardness, and ignores hardness of less than 20, so it does not ignore adamantine hardness.
    thats RAI though, which isnt what this thread is about
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Ummm, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardness
    Each object has hardness—a number that represents how well it resists damage. Whenever an object takes damage, subtract its hardness from the damage. Only damage in excess of its hardness is deducted from the object’s hit points (see Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points; Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points; and Table: Object Hardness and Hit Points).
    Quote Originally Posted by Hit Points
    An object’s hit point total depends on what it is made of and how big it is (see Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points; Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points; and Table: Object Hardness and Hit Points). When an object’s hit points reach 0, it’s ruined.
    Size and thickness only affect hit points, not hardness. Not RAI but plain jane RAW. The table right next to it makes it clear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  23. - Top - End - #923
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    thats RAI though, which isnt what this thread is about
    How is that RAI? That's what it says in the adamantine and breaking objects sections of the SRD.
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by prufock View Post
    How is that RAI? That's what it says in the adamantine and breaking objects sections of the SRD.
    read the rules again, its how it is specifically worded that makes Adamantine DR unbreakable. As i said, Adamantine Weapons break Adamantine DR with a Hardness of at most 20 (Error with wording linking the bypassing to hardness, its not actually intended to work that way). Medium Adamantine objects have a hardness of 30-40, making them immune to adamantine weapons.

    Hardness is also erroneously mentioned in the text for durability by thickness.
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    read the rules again, its how it is specifically worded that makes Adamantine DR unbreakable. As i said, Adamantine Weapons break Adamantine DR with a Hardness of at most 20 (Error with wording linking the bypassing to hardness, its not actually intended to work that way). Medium Adamantine objects have a hardness of 30-40, making them immune to adamantine weapons.

    Hardness is also erroneously mentioned in the text for durability by thickness.
    I believe you are confused, toapat. I have already quoted the rules for hardness and item hp. However, if you are talking about Damage Reduction, Adamantine weapons clearly overcome DR X/Adamantine. This is not dysfunctional.

    If you are talking about the hardness of adamantine itself, I fail to see the problem. Adamantine has hardness 20, and ignores hardness of less than 20. Please show me, if you will, where hardness increases with thickness. I have already posted SRD links that demonstrate it does not. So if you struck an adamantine object with an adamantine weapon, the weapon would not overcome the natural hardness of the object. This is not dysfunctional, as striking a steel object with a steel weapon likewise does not overcome hardness.

    If you are talking about the DR X/- that adamantine armor grants the user, then you are correct, as the DR is a function of the material. But I still fail to see how it is dysfunctional.
    Last edited by mattie_p; 2012-10-11 at 12:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  26. - Top - End - #926
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Dispel doesn't seem like it should work to me somehow....AMF perhaps, at a discount for only extending like an inch from the wall.

    Ooh, ooh! Walls of 24 karat gold that are as strong as steel! You can't take the treasure out of the dungeon because the treasure is the dungeon!!!
    AMF is too high a caster level for most of the NPCs in my setting, Dispel is just about right for stopping the easy wall hacks but allowing the ones that players put real effort into.

    Arsenic is a metal too, I'd mention mercury but nobody would believe it unless you used even more magic. Oddly an 11th level wizard can cast Wall of Iron and enchant a 10x10 section for 1,501 gold, it will be hardness 20, have 180 hp, and get a +7 save. A wall of adamantine will have hardness 20, 120 hp, and get no saves in addition to costing... I can't find a per pound cost for adamantine. I'd guesstimate about 800 gp/lb based on mithril and armor comparisons.

    Magic arsenic walls... Cutting or disintegrating through will create dust, and most adventurers don't have metallurgy or alchemy skills. You might identify it with poison making, but the changed hardness will people throw off and increase the DC.

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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    OK, new entry: the Phasm.
    Size/Type: Medium Aberration (Shapechanger)
    Hit Dice: 15d8+30 (97 hp)
    /..../
    Advancement: 15-21 HD (Huge); 22-45 HD (Gargantuan)
    So it is medium at 15 HD, but if it advances to 15 HD it becomes huge (skipping large entirely).
    Last edited by mattie_p; 2012-10-11 at 06:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  28. - Top - End - #928
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    Arsenic is a metal too, I'd mention mercury but nobody would believe it unless you used even more magic.
    Just claim that it's either mercury chloride or Parad Lingam (although there is some debate as to whether the later is actually mercury, as the technique for making it isn't known outside of India).

    EDIT: Found a site detailing a lingam a bit better (although it's still fairly fuzzy on specifics)
    The Rasalinga is made of solidified mercury which is 99.8% pure mercury. This is generally considered 100%. There are only 0.2 % of impurities which could not be taken out. Generally, according to the principles of modern chemistry, you cannot solidify mercury at room temperature. In extremely low temperatures mercury can be solidified, but in normal temperatures there is no such thing. Here, you see, at normal room temperature, it is solidified in this Linga. This is an ancient science, an ancient Indian alchemy, through which mercury can be solidified at room temperature… This Linga is just two feet tall, but it weighs 680 kgs. That's a lot of weight for an object of this size. The rock beneath, the avudayar, which is at least 5 or 6 times bigger than the lingam itself, probably weighs just about 150 kgs or maybe 200 kgs, not more.
    Last edited by Ksheep; 2012-10-11 at 07:14 PM.
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie_p View Post
    OK, new entry: the Phasm.


    So it is medium at 15 HD, but if it advances to 15 HD it becomes huge (skipping large entirely).
    Well, it is an aberration, they are... aberrant.
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    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Ksheep View Post
    Just claim that it's either mercury chloride or Parad Lingam (although there is some debate as to whether the later is actually mercury, as the technique for making it isn't known outside of India).

    EDIT: Found a site detailing a lingam a bit better (although it's still fairly fuzzy on specifics)
    Mercury Sulfide might be more fun than mercury chloride.

    The Parad Lingam is possibly an amalgam, which are fairly easy to make. The stated percentages sound dubious however.
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