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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: [3.5] Soulcrafter: a soulknife remix

    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    ...without soulcraft twin you can't do TWF at 1st level without using a mundane weapon in your off hand.
    Come to think of it, what happens when you use Soulcraft twin at less than 4th level? It's ML-3.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: [3.5] Soulcrafter: a soulknife remix

    Now, I'm not familiar with the power levels of a lot of the content on GitP, but I think this class does something that might be a little bit crazy: it removes the need for buying almost anything but Wondrous Items. Stick with me, because I may be interpreting some parts wrong.

    You can, at level 2, augment one item with Attune Special Property (applies a property based on the property's cost,) and Attune Enhancement Bonus (applies enhancement bonus based on level, +1 at 2,) to get, for example, a +1 Keen Shortsword. Effectively a +2 weapon at level 2.
    Now, as long as you don't change your augments, you can manifest (almost) any mundane item you need and still be sitting on that +2 weapon at level 2. You'll only be down a swift action, too, because that's how long it takes to manifest.

    Now, once you get into the stages where you'd be getting magical loot (let's assume random-ish drops,) you're just going to sell any weapon or armor because you can pretty safely manage a weapon, armor, and shield with manifesting. All that's left are wondrous items, and you'll have plenty of cash at that point to outfit yourself with above-average stat or skill boosters because you don't have to worry about buying your weapons or armor.

    This seems a bit overpowered to me. I dunno. I might just be leery of early magic and masterworks.

    Also, can two Soulcrafts use the same augment? I'm not really clear on that, but, to me, the text under "Augment Soulcraft" doesn't seem to specifically disallow it.
    Also, can other people use your soulcrafted weapons and armor?
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: [3.5] Soulcrafter: a soulknife remix

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
    Come to think of it, what happens when you use Soulcraft twin at less than 4th level? It's ML-3.
    Minimum manifester level would be zero, since a negative ML is nonsensical. This does impose some restrictions; for example, you can't put augment enhancement bonus on soulcraft twin weapons when your ML is less than 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pietato View Post
    Now, I'm not familiar with the power levels of a lot of the content on GitP, but I think this class does something that might be a little bit crazy: it removes the need for buying almost anything but Wondrous Items.
    To an extent, you're right. Remember, though, that MOST classes (e.g. beguiler, wizard, sorcerer, druid, cleric, dread necromancer, psion, warlock, even monk) receive little benefit from magic weapons and armor. Magic weapons and armor are actually fairly niche items that are only useful to martial characters and martial/caster hybrids. The feats Soulcraft Form and Soulcraft Talisman are intended to make such items more useful to the soulcrafter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pietato View Post
    Now, once you get into the stages where you'd be getting magical loot (let's assume random-ish drops,) you're just going to sell any weapon or armor because you can pretty safely manage a weapon, armor, and shield with manifesting. All that's left are wondrous items, and you'll have plenty of cash at that point to outfit yourself with above-average stat or skill boosters because you don't have to worry about buying your weapons or armor.
    This is one approach you could take, and a viable one. It is not the only one, but it works well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pietato View Post
    This seems a bit overpowered to me. I dunno. I might just be leery of early magic and masterworks.
    I think you may be undervaluing spells in your analysis. Many caster classes can also produce temporary weapons of roughly similar power. They just don't do it very often because they have even better things to do with their spell slots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pietato View Post
    Also, can two Soulcrafts use the same augment? I'm not really clear on that, but, to me, the text under "Augment Soulcraft" doesn't seem to specifically disallow it.
    Yes. Generally, any soulcrafter who manifests two soulcrafted weapons (or both an armor and a shield) will want to do this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pietato View Post
    Also, can other people use your soulcrafted weapons and armor?
    Certain augments grant you the limited ability to do this, but in most circumstances the answer is no.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2012-10-20 at 01:25 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: [3.5] Soulcrafter: a soulknife remix

    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    Magic weapons and armor are actually fairly niche items that are only useful to martial characters and martial/caster hybrids. The feats Soulcraft Form and Soulcraft Talisman are intended to make such items more useful to the soulcrafter.
    I missed those. Can you just Talisman a +1 weapon and devote all of your augments to special abilities?
    Also, as this is a front-line combatant (complete with a method for obtaining bonus feats,) I'd imagine that magic weapons and armor are very important things to have for a soulcrafter. But their class features make them a fightin' class that benefits from, and doesn't need to buy, good weapons and armor.

    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    I think you may be undervaluing spells in your analysis. Many caster classes can also produce temporary weapons of roughly similar power. They just don't do it very often because they have even better things to do with their spell slots.
    At the moment, I'm looking through the Spell Compendium level 1 spells (CL2 Wizard,) that can get someone two effective +2 weapons at once. All of these Lesser Orbs look pretty fun, though.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: [3.5] Soulcrafter: a soulknife remix

    Quote Originally Posted by Pietato View Post
    I missed those. Can you just Talisman a +1 weapon and devote all of your augments to special abilities?
    Yah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pietato View Post
    Also, as this is a front-line combatant (complete with a method for obtaining bonus feats,) I'd imagine that magic weapons and armor are very important things to have for a soulcrafter. But their class features make them a fightin' class that benefits from, and doesn't need to buy, good weapons and armor.
    The same could be said for druids. It must be said that a soulcrafter is considerably less powerful than a druid of the same level.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Soulcrafter: a soulknife remix

    So, I'm not entirely clear on how augments work. I see two possibilities:

    • Whenever you form a soulcraft, you may augment it with a number of augments of up to the number of soulcrafts you can form, and the total number of augments you have at any one time cannot exceed your class level.
    • Whenever you form a soulcraft, you may expend a number of your readied augments of up to the number of soulcrafts you can form. Those augments do not return until you ready augments again.


    Which one of these is correct? The latter makes throwing an impractical style, since you'd run out of augments after a few rounds of combat.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Soulcrafter: a soulknife remix

    It's the first one. You can reuse the same augment as much as you want on different soulcrafts.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Soulcrafter: a soulknife remix

    Yes, it's the former. Here's the relevant section.

    Once you have selected your augments, you manifest the augments whenever you manifest a soulcraft. To augment a soulcraft, you must a have a Wisdom score of at least 10 + the number of augments the soulcraft will have. You can apply any augment you have readied, although no soulcraft can have more augments than your maximum number of soulcrafts.
    So, for example, Lateral the 6th level soulcrafter can ready up to six augments, and can manifest up to three soulcrafts. When he readies his augments, he can ready any least or lesser augments (since a 6th level soulcrafter only has access to least and lesser augments). Since his maximum number of soulcrafts is three, no soulcraft can have more than three augments. Applying augments to a soulcraft is done at the time that the soulcraft is produced. It doesn't take any extra time, and it doesn't reduce or limit his readied augments in any way.

    Let's say Lateral expects to enter a dungeon full of enemies. He readies the following augments:

    • Attune Feat (Improved Shield Bash)
    • Attune Special Property (daylight)
    • Attune Special Property (keen)
    • Augment Enhancement Bonus (attack)
    • Augment Enhancement Bonus (defense)
    • Exotic Soulcrafting


    Lateral then manifests a long sword, a shield, and a suit of armor.
    • For his sword, he applies Exotic Soulcrafting, Attune Special Property (keen), and Augment Enhancement Bonus (attack), creating a +2 keen silvered long sword.
    • For his armor, he applies Exotic Soulcrafting, Attune Special Property (daylight) and Augment Enhancement Bonus (defense), producing +2 mithril breastplate of daylight.
    • For his shield, he applies Exotic Soulcrafting, Attune Feat (Improved Shield Bash), and Augment Enhancement Bonus (defense), producing a +2 darkwood heavy shield and gaining Improved Shield Bash as a bonus feat while he wields it. Lateral would like to add the daylight property to his shield as well, so that he can use it twice per day instead of once. However, that would require placing four total augments on the weapon and he won't be able to do that until he's 7th level. Reflecting on it, Lateral realizes that even if he could apply the augment, the 1/day restriction on the daylight special property is shared across all of his soulcrafts, so he wouldn't be able to get an extra use out of it anyway.
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: [3.5] Soulcrafter: a soulknife remix

    A new table has appeared!

    Level Base Attack Fort Ref Will Special Soulcrafts Augments
    1st +1 +0 +2 +2 Augment soulcraft (least), soulcrafting, Weapon Focus (soulcraft weapons), Wild Talent 1 1
    2nd +2 +0 +3 +3 Empty mind, free draw, ranged soulcraft 2 2
    3rd +3 +1 +3 +3 Psychic strike 2 3
    4th +4 +1 +4 +4 Bonus feat 3 4
    5th +5 +1 +4 +4 Whisper from the soul 3 5
    6th +6/+1 +2 +5 +5 Augment soulcraft (lesser) 3 6
    7th +7/+2 +2 +5 +5 Bladewind 4 7
    8th +8/+3 +2 +6 +6 Bonus feat 4 8
    9th +9/+4 +3 +6 +6 Augment soulcraft (greater) 4 9
    10th +10/+5 +3 +7 +7 Evade burst 4 10
    11th +11/+6/+1 +3 +7 +7 Knife to the soul 5 11
    12th +12/+7/+2 +4 +8 +8 Augment soulcraft (dark), bonus feat 5 12
    13th +13/+8/+3 +4 +8 +8 Psychic strike (full attack) 5 13
    14th +14/+9/+4 +4 +9 +9 Hustle 5 14
    15th +15/+10/+5 +5 +9 +9 Augment soulcraft (fearsome) 5 15
    16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +5 +10 +10 Bonus feat 6 16
    17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Bladestorm 6 17
    18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Augment soulcraft (epic) 6 18
    19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Fission 6 19
    20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Bonus feat 6 20
    [/td]
    [/tr]
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: [3.5] Soulcrafter: a soulknife remix

    All tables now updated. Thanks for the assist, mousedigits!
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    Default Re: [3.5] Soulcrafter: a soulknife remix

    If I might suggest a stylistic improvement: "class: alt1 head", "class: alt2 head", or "class: alt1 alt2 head" look more like the old tables and those in actual books (the actual books would just be "class: alt1", but then you wouldn't get a header row. "class: alt1 head" is the old tables, alt2 is a different brown on the other set of every-other-row).

    "class: grid" always looks harsh to me.

    Related: I've got a character in this class, going through a game on here. Seems reasonable so far.
    Last edited by Qwertystop; 2014-07-03 at 01:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
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    Default Re: [3.5] Soulcrafter: a soulknife remix

    You're right, it looks better.

    I like your character! I'd never imagined anything like a petal shadowcrafter when I made the class, which really pleases me; when people can do things with the class that I'd never thought of, I know it's a success.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2014-07-10 at 11:06 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Soulcrafter: a soulknife remix

    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    You're right, it looks better.

    I look your character! I'd never imagined anything like a petal shadowcrafter when I made the class, which really pleases me; when people can do things with the class that I'd never thought of, I know it's a success.
    The thought process was as follows:
    Playing a mafia-family-style game.
    Want ranged.
    Longbow doesn't fit big cities, crossbow does.
    Big advantage of crossbow is dual-weilding.
    Big disadvantage is needing to reload.
    Hey, *crafter gives auto-reload!
    It's a dark sort of game, shadowcrafter seems to fit better.
    I always like the odd ones - a petal (in the mafia) is one such. Also that gives mobility and defenses - flight is great for an archer.


    Then that game died and I transferred the character to the new one. There's a few changes in fluff that were fun but no longer fit. For example, the DM of the first wrote up an NPC or two for each of us to have some relationship with - Hyacinth was on a professional/friendly relationship with the local inexplicably-immortal-guy-who-is-thus-used-as-practice-by-any-assassins-in-training (He may come back the next day, but he sort of plays along and gets what defenses he can anyway. Sometimes Hyacinth was a bodyguard, sometimes it was the assassination equivalent of a friendly spar.) That was a fun one to put together.

    Also Hyacinth's public-face job (because you can't really go around openly being an asassin, and until the mafia's established (it wasn't) you can't spread that around either) was as key insurance and tool rental. Let her handle a key, if you lose it she makes a copy so you can get into your house to get money to pay the locksmith. Also she's got assorted masterwork tools if you need a look in a book or something.

    The opportunities for theft were mentioned but not yet used, because seriously that's kind of an obvious suspect if something small enough for a Petal to carry suddenly goes missing a week after you give her your key.

    Those are gone in the new version, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
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    Default Re: [3.5] Soulcrafter: a soulknife remix

    That does sound fun. Now I want to play a petal in Bakano.
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