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    Default Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    A foreward (written before starting on the class): So the Rage Mage came up over on the main 3.5 forum and it was described in detail as to how terrible it is. I'm going to admit openly, I've basically never looked at the Rage Mage class in depth, and am not even glancing at it as a reference point for this retool, because that's about how bad the reviews of it were. My goal here is to make a Gish PrC that combines the fury of a barbarian with the capability of a spellcaster. Personally, I feel that Sorcerer is a better fit than Wizard for a Barbarian, so I think I will press this as a spontaneous caster class. I'm also thinking a sort of elementalist theme might work here, but that could very well be a totally different prestige class. So we'll see.


    The Rage Mage

    Barbarians are known far and wide for their prowess and ferocity in battle. Barbarians harness their inner strength to unleash in short bursts giving them an unmatched capability in battle. This burst of power however generally clouds the Barbarian's thoughts, preventing him from concentrating, as such this prohibits most Barbarians from becoming proficient in the spellcasters' arts.

    There are however, rare Barbarians who trancend this limitation, who have found a way to tap their inner magic energies and subconsciously use them in battle even while raging. These rare individuals are Rage Mages.


    Prerequisites
    BAB: +4 BAB
    Spells: Must be able to spontaneously cast second level arcane spells
    Special: Must have access to the Rage special ability


    HD: 1d12
    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells Per Day
    1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Rage Progression, Spellrage -
    2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Armored Caster +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
    3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Enhanced Rage+1, Arcane Strike +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
    4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Arcane Toughness +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
    5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Active Channeling -
    6th +6 +5 +2 +5 Enhanced Rage+2 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
    7th +7 +5 +2 +5 Improved Arcane Toughness +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
    8th +8 +6 +2 +6 Primal Surge +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
    9th +9 +6 +3 +6 Spell Fury -
    10th +10 +7 +3 +7 Arcane Frenzy, Perfect Spellrage +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class

    Class Skills (4+Int): Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Arcana), Listen, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Spot, and Swim.

    Class Features


    Weapon & Armor Proficiency
    The Rage Mage gains no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

    Spells per Day: At all levels except 1st, 5th, and 9th, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds the level of rage mage to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.

    Rage Progression(Ex): Add Rage Mage levels to levels of the class you gained Rage from for determining how many uses of your rage ability you have every day, and also for any increases to rage ability. (For example a level 10 Rage Mage with 2 levels in Barbarian would have Greater Rage, 4 times per day, as if he were a 12th level Barbarian)

    Spellrage(Su): A Rage Mage can channel his arcane energies while raging, and even becomes more competent at using his abilities. The Rage Mage may now cast spells that target only himself while raging (if the spell normally has multiple targets, or can work on himself or someone else, the spell will only affect him). Spellrage only affects spells cast from the class that is being progressed by the rage mage, any other spellcasting available to the character is restricted as normal, and cannot be used with the Rage Mage's class features.

    Additionally, all spells cast while raging are increased by the same amount as the strength bonus he gains from Raging. (So a Barb2/Sorc4/Rage Mage 1 has a Rage that increases strength by 4, gains a +4 caster level bonus while raging). While casting under the effects of rage, the Rage Mage does not provoke attacks of opportunity from casting a spell, and is considered casting defensively without needing to make a concentration check.

    Armored Caster (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, the Rage Mage does not incur the normal arcane spell failure chance while wearing light or medium armor and raging. If attempting to cast a spell while not raging, the normal arcane failure chance applies.

    Enhanced Rage(Su): The Rage Mage's caster level boost from Spellrage increases by +1 at levels 3 and 6.

    Arcane Strike(Su): At 3rd level, you gain Arcane Strike as a bonus feat you may use only while raging. Your damage dice when using the feat are d6's instead of d4's.

    Arcane Toughness(Su): While Raging the Rage Mage starting at 4th level may opt to expend an spell slot as an immediate action to gain DR/- equal to 2 times the level of the spell slot used until the beginning of his next turn.


    Active Channeling The 5th level Rage Mage may now channel spells to affect others. As a swift action after succeeding on an attack an attack, the Rage Mage may cast an touch spell targeting the creature he just hit. There is no need to roll a touch attack for a touch spell channeled this way.

    Improved Arcane Toughness(Su): Starting at 7th level, when using Arcane Toughness, you gain fast healing equal to the amount of DR gained for a number of turns equal to your caster level. Multiple instances of this do not stack the amount healed, but they do overlap, so the highest healed amount will stay active, but if a weaker amount is activated later, when the first expires, the weaker effect will continue for the rest of its duration.

    Spoiler
    Show
    For example, you have a Rage Mage with Caster Level 18, who uses a 6th level spell slot on arcane toughness on round one, and thus gains 18 rounds of fast healing 12. On round 5, he uses it again, but with only a 3rd level spell slot. He now has 13 rounds left of fast healing 12, but 18 levels of fast healing 6. So when the fast healing 12 runs out, he will still have 5 more rounds of fast healing.


    Random aside: Is this actually how fast healing overlaps? Like if a cleric cast multiple cases of vigor, do they overlap like this, or do they stack? I think I handled this the right way, but I'm not sure


    Primal Surge (Su): At 8th level, the rage mage gains the ability to use any metamagic feats he possesses while raging. Using a metamagic feat while raging does not increase the casting time of the spell.

    Spell Fury(Su): At 9th level the rage mage may opt to cast a spell as an attack action while raging. This means when making a full attack (or some other action when he could choose to make an attack), he can give up one of his attacks to cast a spell that affects only himself. At least one attack from the full attack action must be used as an attack rather than to cast.

    Arcane Frenzy: At 10th level, the Rage Mage who has run out of rage uses for the day may expend a spell slot to enter a rage for a number of rounds equal to the level of the spell slot used plus his constitution modifier.

    Perfect Spellrage (Su): At 10th level, your spells cast while in a rage (except for those from Active Channeling) may affect allies, as long as they affect the Rage Mage as well. Additionally, when you rage, you are treated as under the effects of a Transformation spell, with the exception that you may still cast spells. Finally, any spell used with active channeling that allows a saving throw gains a bonus to the save DC equal to half your rage bonus to strength.




    Spoiler
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    Some notes:
    The class loses 3 caster levels, plus 1 caster level from entry. This means going full rage mage means never getting 9th level spells. This isn't as terrible as it looks at first, because:
    -You gain a pretty nice caster level boost. At the start it's a +4 caster level boost, by the end it's a +8. You lose higher level spells, but your caster level is always above average.
    -You gain plenty of other class features as well. You get a decent self defense ability, a stronger arcane strike, the ability to channel a touch spell as a part of a melee attack with effectively a +3 to save DCs, and the ability to buff yourself and allies by sacrificing your weaker attacks in a full attack action. These are some pretty big things, to the point where I think the class gets by fine without level 9 spells, and might even be better off with another spell level taken off.


    The class's abilities focus more on the caster end of things rather than the Barbarian end of things, because frankly there's more you can do from the caster angle. You can't really use Barbarian to augment a Sorcerer, so what we end up with is a Sorcerer augmenting the Barbarian.

    On the prereqs, they feel pretty easy, but I couldn't think of what would fit. I wanted to make Arcane Strike a prereq, but that required 3rd level spells, which is more than I wanted to be necessary to enter, so I dropped it in as a bonus feat. If you feel prereqs are too easy suggestions for something else would be welcome.

    [edit: Just checked time stamps, and it was exactly 2 hours between me seeing the thread in the other forum and saying "I want to do this" and this getting posted. Man prestige classes are so much easier and faster than base classes :p]
    Last edited by Seerow; 2014-04-04 at 01:52 PM.
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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    Touch spells allow saving throws now?
    Sweet sorcerer avatar by Cuthalion

    Quote Originally Posted by LoL Forum
    Quote Originally Posted by DefenderCRU
    Even with six blood thirsters, I still wouldn't be dealing tons of damage...
    Quote Originally Posted by BellatorCQC
    That's because you don't have a Trinity Force.

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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Touch spells allow saving throws now?
    I'm sure there's some out there that do. I can't think of any but D&D is big. I figure if they do exist, give a bonus for it cause your charisma probably isn't quite as high.

    If you're certain that there aren't any anywhere that have both a touch attack and saving throw, I'll remove that line, no harm no foul.
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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    I'm sure there's some out there that do. I can't think of any but D&D is big. I figure if they do exist, give a bonus for it cause your charisma probably isn't quite as high.

    If you're certain that there aren't any anywhere that have both a touch attack and saving throw, I'll remove that line, no harm no foul.
    Well, no, poison definitely allows a saving throw now that I think about it, and shivering touch might also as well.

    I wasn't really challenging you, it was an honest question. I thought that you had some spells in mind that I hadn't heard of and I was interested to hear it. Still, that seems kind of cruel, forcing the caster to get in close and touch someone and still allowing a saving throw (Fort Negates for poison) is bad. At least with poison specifically the save DC is broken (for clerics)

    The class itself looks pretty good. I would tailor it to allow rage variants as well (Fervor, Berserker Strength (maybe, that one's kind of weird), Whirling Frenzy) as well as Rage though, just to give the classes options.

    Would love to see an Avenger Druid/Sorcerer/Rage Mage. Wildshaped Natural Spell Spellraging would be devastating (though your fluff seems to indicate that Spellrage only allows arcane spells to be cast, the actual crunch part of it doesn't say so, so I'm curious about that)
    Sweet sorcerer avatar by Cuthalion

    Quote Originally Posted by LoL Forum
    Quote Originally Posted by DefenderCRU
    Even with six blood thirsters, I still wouldn't be dealing tons of damage...
    Quote Originally Posted by BellatorCQC
    That's because you don't have a Trinity Force.

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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    The class itself looks pretty good. I would tailor it to allow rage variants as well (Fervor, Berserker Strength (maybe, that one's kind of weird), Whirling Frenzy) as well as Rage though, just to give the classes options.
    As long as the rage variant grants strength, they should work fine with it. I left the rage progression and prerequisite pretty explicitly vague for that reason. Even Whirling Frenzy grants +strength.

    Would love to see an Avenger Druid/Sorcerer/Rage Mage. Wildshaped Natural Spell Spellraging would be devastating (though your fluff seems to indicate that Spellrage only allows arcane spells to be cast, the actual crunch part of it doesn't say so, so I'm curious about that)
    Good point. The effects should be restricted to arcane spells from the class being progressed (which is something else that wasn't listed in the text apparently). I was originally considering allowing a Divine entry to the class (via Favored Soul) but decided that the flavor didn't seem to mesh too well, and it also got an earlier entry (though a skill prerequisite could fix that easily enough). Even if that does change however, the class abilities should only augment the caster abilities of the class being progressed, no entering as a Sorcerer/Druid and getting a +8 caster level on both, only one or the other. Will edit to clarify.


    Updated: The text of spellrage now explicitly only allows spells from the class being progressed by the rage mage class to benefit from and fuel rage mage special abilities.
    Last edited by Seerow; 2011-09-21 at 08:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    Okay, now that I've finished making this, I went back and actually looked at the rage mage. Several of the things were pretty damn close (Rage Mage gives caster level = character level, filling much the same purpose as my increased caster level. Gives a +2/4 to spell DCs as opposed to my +3, spell failure reduction at level 2.), but I can't fathom why they made a spell rage something totally different from a regular rage. It also lost more caster levels, and didn't give access to greater rage.


    Now looking at it, I have to say I love the name Spell Fury, and think that's going to replace "Fast Channeling". The Warrior's Cry giving a Tenser's Transformation effect as a capstone is a nice touch, I might roll that in with my capstone (Since it would kick in at level 16 that gets you your 4th attack 2 levels earlier, and saves you a little cash if you were only going to get a +4 item for dex or con. The extra armor and fort is nice for a freebee as well, since at least those aren't enhancement bonuses)
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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    I like it, and I'll do a more in-depth analysis later, but one thing stuck out to me. This heavily encourages not taking the entire PrC, to gain maximum spellcasting ability. Ideal entry for this is something like Barb 1/Sorc 6. You then have two ideal drop-off points, at 4th level (1 lost caster level) and at 8th level (2 lost caster levels). 4th level is the most likely, since that nets you 9th level spellcasting.

    So you'd end up with something like Barb 1/Sorc 6/Rage Mage 4/Full Casting PrC 9. Cast as an 18th level sorcerer, rage as a fifth level Barbarian. Take the Extra Rage feat and you get 4 uses of Rage per day, enough for most days.

    Not that this is a bad build, mind you (I'd actually love to play something like that), I'm just pointing out that it rewards getting out after a certain point. If you want to encourage getting the entire class, I'd switch it around a bit. Maybe add another caster level or three and bump up the requirements on the Barb side a bit (if there is any class that deserves full spellcasting, it's probably the Rage Mage).
    Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-09-22 at 12:11 AM.
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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm View Post
    I like it, and I'll do a more in-depth analysis later, but one thing stuck out to me. This heavily encourages not taking the entire PrC, to gain maximum spellcasting ability. Ideal entry for this is something like Barb 1/Sorc 6. You then have two ideal drop-off points, at 4th level (1 lost caster level) and at 8th level (2 lost caster levels). 4th level is the most likely, since that nets you 9th level spellcasting.

    So you'd end up with something like Barb 1/Sorc 6/Rage Mage 4/Full Casting PrC 9. Cast as an 18th level sorcerer, rage as a fifth level Barbarian. Take the Extra Rage feat and you get 4 uses of Rage per day, enough for most days.

    Not that this is a bad build, mind you (I'd actually love to play something like that), I'm just pointing out that it rewards getting out after a certain point. If you want to encourage getting the entire class, I'd switch it around a bit. Maybe add another caster level.
    Oh really? I posit to you, good sir, that this would make for a fantastic bardbarian build! And as bardbarian does not receive 9th level spells anyway, there is no reason not to go barbarian 1/bard 4/rage mage 10/full prc 5!
    Sweet sorcerer avatar by Cuthalion

    Quote Originally Posted by LoL Forum
    Quote Originally Posted by DefenderCRU
    Even with six blood thirsters, I still wouldn't be dealing tons of damage...
    Quote Originally Posted by BellatorCQC
    That's because you don't have a Trinity Force.

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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    Maybe I'm just picky, but . . . can we find anything to shove into that level 8 slot? Dead levels (even ones that progress spellcasting) just kind of feel wrong to me in a PrC, especially so late in the game.
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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Maybe I'm just picky, but . . . can we find anything to shove into that level 8 slot? Dead levels (even ones that progress spellcasting) just kind of feel wrong to me in a PrC, especially so late in the game.
    I agree with Zaq. How about an ability that lets you use metamagic feats during rage?
    Sweet sorcerer avatar by Cuthalion

    Quote Originally Posted by LoL Forum
    Quote Originally Posted by DefenderCRU
    Even with six blood thirsters, I still wouldn't be dealing tons of damage...
    Quote Originally Posted by BellatorCQC
    That's because you don't have a Trinity Force.

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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm View Post
    I like it, and I'll do a more in-depth analysis later, but one thing stuck out to me. This heavily encourages not taking the entire PrC, to gain maximum spellcasting ability. Ideal entry for this is something like Barb 1/Sorc 6. You then have two ideal drop-off points, at 4th level (1 lost caster level) and at 8th level (2 lost caster levels). 4th level is the most likely, since that nets you 9th level spellcasting.

    So you'd end up with something like Barb 1/Sorc 6/Rage Mage 4/Full Casting PrC 9. Cast as an 18th level sorcerer, rage as a fifth level Barbarian. Take the Extra Rage feat and you get 4 uses of Rage per day, enough for most days.

    Not that this is a bad build, mind you (I'd actually love to play something like that), I'm just pointing out that it rewards getting out after a certain point. If you want to encourage getting the entire class, I'd switch it around a bit. Maybe add another caster level or three and bump up the requirements on the Barb side a bit (if there is any class that deserves full spellcasting, it's probably the Rage Mage).
    You can do that, and it is indeed a completely valid option. I'd expect some people to take it.

    However, I stuck a lot of really powerful abilities in those last 2 levels. Being able to cast a spell as an attack action is a pretty huge ****ing deal. (Charge in pouncing a guy, hit once, then use your itteratives to put up 3-4 buffs all at once means you're combat ready pretty much instantly)

    At 5th level (the break point you predicted) you first get your active channeling, the ability to go "Oh I hit you? Well then eat this spell as well". Sure a Duskblade was doing that a few levels ago, but you have the whole sorcerer spell list at your disposal, so you have a nice edge there.

    Then at the other break point, 9th level, being able to burn spell slots for extra rage uses is similarly a pretty big deal, since almost all of your class features require being enraged. Sure you could go for extra rage and probably have enough, but probably and "as long as I have a spell left" is a pretty long ways apart.

    Finally, losing the restriction of self only and being able to mass buff allies (again with that added bonus of being able to do so with an attack action), and getting back your full BAB with some other goodies any time you are raging is a pretty good deal as well.

    Oh also, the person who goes all the way to Rage Mage 10 rather than 4, ends up with effectively 3 higher caster level, gaining 1 net caster level over the guy who ducked out early, though of course the spells per day are lower (Barb 1 + Rage Mage 10 nets you Greater Rage for an extra 2 strength and thus 2 caster level.)


    I think altogether they are worth giving up 9th level spells for. Especially for the character archtype. 9th level spells do some awesome things, but we're talking about a class whose primary focus is on self buffs, and touch spells. Most 9th level spells that utterly rock the game aren't in that category. The only major one I can think of offhand is Shapechange (and yes that one is painful to lose). I think the benefits are good enough that you can deal with losing access to it for the nicer aspects of the class.

    Basically people entering the class will decide either to duck out early, or stay all the way. And that's fine, as long as both options are a valid choice.
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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    Woah I got multi ninjad.


    Oh really? I posit to you, good sir, that this would make for a fantastic bardbarian build! And as bardbarian does not receive 9th level spells anyway, there is no reason not to go barbarian 1/bard 4/rage mage 10/full prc 5!
    Heh, I like it.

    Maybe I'm just picky, but . . . can we find anything to shove into that level 8 slot? Dead levels (even ones that progress spellcasting) just kind of feel wrong to me in a PrC, especially so late in the game.
    I agree with Zaq. How about an ability that lets you use metamagic feats during rage?
    If I stuck anything there it would be a relatively minor class feature. The last two levels really are jammed with good stuff.

    I suppose I could stick in something to allow you to use metamagic without the increased cast time. There's a few feats that do that right? Rapid Metamagic or something out of PHB2. How do you feel about slotting that in as a bonus feat that's active while raging?
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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    I suppose I could stick in something to allow you to use metamagic without the increased cast time. There's a few feats that do that right? Rapid Metamagic or something out of PHB2. How do you feel about slotting that in as a bonus feat that's active while raging?
    Seerow. You can't use metamagic feats at all while you rage.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats.
    Emphasis mine. The actual Complete Warrior rage mage does nothing to mitigate this, and neither did you. That's why I suggested it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoL Forum
    Quote Originally Posted by DefenderCRU
    Even with six blood thirsters, I still wouldn't be dealing tons of damage...
    Quote Originally Posted by BellatorCQC
    That's because you don't have a Trinity Force.

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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Seerow. You can't use metamagic feats at all while you rage.



    Emphasis mine. The actual Complete Warrior rage mage does nothing to mitigate this, and neither did you. That's why I suggested it.
    Ah, here I thought not being able to use metamagic feats at all was just part of the inability to use spells. Given that the CW Rage Mage gave a free quicken spell, they apparently seemed to think so to.

    But yeah, the ability to use metamagic at all seems like a small enough ability that fits.


    edit: Updated, with a name that is basically a non sequitor, so a better name would be appreciated. I decided to go ahead and give it the no increased casting time as well as enabling metamagic use, because otherwise metamagics would work funky with some of the other abilities. This keeps things simpler.
    Last edited by Seerow; 2011-09-22 at 12:46 AM.
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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    hmm, want to try this as a Duskblade 5/Barbarian1/ rage mage rt X then probably back into duskblade. Feels hardy and dangerous.

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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    I have the weirdest urge to say that you should totally have a class feature that lets you use item creation feats while raging. No, of course it wouldn't be useful (how could you possibly rage for that long, Berserker Strength or NI spells from Cancer Mage/Tainted Scholar notwithstanding?), but I've always thought that prohibition was bizarre.

    Consider it a flavor thing.
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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    I'm a bit uncomfortable with associating the Spell Rage CL increase with the Str bonus. You posit CL +8 (1 level of barbarian +10 Rage Mage = Greater Rage's +6 +2 Enhanced Rage) but then there's Mountain Rage for +2 more, Reckless Rage for another +2, wield a Furious weapon to be treated as using Mighty Rage for another +2, etc. It just gets a bit out of hand, I think, whereas if you just say a bonus or have the original's CL = character level, there's less munchkinry coming into it via Goliath Barb 1/Sorc 6/RM 10/Full Caster PrC 3 with 8th level spells cast at CL 34 b/c they took Practiced Spellcaster(Sorcerer) to make up for lost CL. That's cheaper than Master Spellthief shenanigans, since you do it in less feats.

    It should also be pointed out that you can early entry at ECL 6 via Battle Sorcerer for Barbarian 1/Battle Sorcerer 4. The BAB requirement quashes earlier entry but it's something to consider.
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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    I'm a bit uncomfortable with associating the Spell Rage CL increase with the Str bonus. You posit CL +8 (1 level of barbarian +10 Rage Mage = Greater Rage's +6 +2 Enhanced Rage) but then there's Mountain Rage for +2 more, Reckless Rage for another +2, wield a Furious weapon to be treated as using Mighty Rage for another +2, etc. It just gets a bit out of hand, I think, whereas if you just say a bonus or have the original's CL = character level, there's less munchkinry coming into it via Goliath Barb 1/Sorc 6/RM 10/Full Caster PrC 3 with 8th level spells cast at CL 34 b/c they took Practiced Spellcaster(Sorcerer) to make up for lost CL. That's cheaper than Master Spellthief shenanigans, since you do it in less feats.

    It should also be pointed out that you can early entry at ECL 6 via Battle Sorcerer for Barbarian 1/Battle Sorcerer 4. The BAB requirement quashes earlier entry but it's something to consider.
    But having it cap at Character Level despite all the power that comes from your rage just doesn't fit the flavor of the ability.

    Sure, if you optimize rage as is, you get a crazy caster level for your spells. But those spells can only be buff spells or touch spells. I don't see what's wrong with making the CL option really high for an optimizer. You lose a lot by putting rage over casting, as in actual spells per day and higher spell levels.
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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    Where does the Furious Weapon come from?


    Mountain Rage and Reckless Rage I don't really have much problem with. Reckless Rage costs a feat, and gives you an extra penalty to AC on top. Mountain Rage is pretty niche and requires taking a LA+1 race (and any groups allowing LA buyoff are already signing up for a higher than average power level, so in those scenarios getting basically a free +2 caster level isn't any more disruptive than normal).



    I guess if it's that huge of a deal, I can switch it to a flat +4, with the normal bonuses at 3 and 6, and a +2 bonus at level 9 or 10, which would have the same basic effect without exploitability. But I'm not sold that it needs to be done.
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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Sure, if you optimize rage as is, you get a crazy caster level for your spells. But those spells can only be buff spells or touch spells. I don't see what's wrong with making the CL option really high for an optimizer. You lose a lot by putting rage over casting, as in actual spells per day and higher spell levels.
    It's not really optimizing Rage over casting, though, as it's 1 level and 2 feats, one of which you'd probably take as a Rage Mage, anyways (Practiced Spellcaster). I suppose the boosted CL only really helps with keeping your stuff from getting dispelled, as durations are already ridiculous for the most part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    Where does the Furious Weapon come from?


    Mountain Rage and Reckless Rage I don't really have much problem with. Reckless Rage costs a feat, and gives you an extra penalty to AC on top. Mountain Rage is pretty niche and requires taking a LA+1 race (and any groups allowing LA buyoff are already signing up for a higher than average power level, so in those scenarios getting basically a free +2 caster level isn't any more disruptive than normal).



    I guess if it's that huge of a deal, I can switch it to a flat +4, with the normal bonuses at 3 and 6, and a +2 bonus at level 9 or 10, which would have the same basic effect without exploitability. But I'm not sold that it needs to be done.
    Furious is from OA. Not enough Barbarian players know about it unfortunately.

    As I said above, given the casting restrictions, perhaps its not as big a deal to have such a high CL compared to a Master Spellthief build, who has no such restrictions.
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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    That explains why I'm not familiar with it, I've never used OA. Also iirc it was made for 3.0 not 3.5.
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    Default Re: Rage Mage [D&D 3.5 PrC Retool]

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    That explains why I'm not familiar with it, I've never used OA. Also iirc it was made for 3.0 not 3.5.
    Well yes, 3.0 stuff is grandfathered into 3.5 if it's not updated, like Iaijutsu Focus is. There's nothing wrong with using it, you can't get one till you can afford a +3 weapon, since Furious is +2 special ability. That's quite the pretty penny. It's worthwhile, though.
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