Diablo III: Not Just a Vitality Race!

[Avilan the Grey]

You are not alone. There was a discussion going on at the blizzard forums, and the general conclusion was that Belial was probably the worst liar, despite being the lord of lies, and Azmodan being a crappy tactician, in that he basically telegraphs his next move to the PCs (essentially giving away his entire battle strategy).

So? This is nothing special. It's the same in most games, not only the Diablo series or just Blizzard. It is VERY hard to write the mindset of a character that is everything you are not. Besides, as I have already said, the Diabloverse runs on Cheese, Ham and Dark Fantasy. In that order.

[pffh]

So? This is nothing special. It's the same in most games, not only the Diablo series or just Blizzard. It is VERY hard to write the mindset of a character that is everything you are not. Besides, as I have already said, the Diabloverse runs on Cheese, Ham and Dark Fantasy. In that order.

Act 2 "spoilers"

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Still it would have been a slight improvement on Belial if Hakan was just his lieutenant and when you go "Hah you are Belial" he would go "Oh no you figured it out" and then you fight him thinking he his Belial.

After the fight the captain of the guard (A something don't remember her name) would walk in going "Yay you defeated him... or did you" and then she would reveal herself as the real Belial and that she was just luring you into a trap.

This would turn it from "I've known who Belial is since we first heard of Hakan" to "Huh it was a double bluff" and it would still be cheesy and hammy as, pardon the pun, hell.

[Avilan the Grey]

Act 2 "spoilers"

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This would turn it from "I've known who Belial is since we first heard of Hakan" to "Huh it was a double bluff" and it would still be cheesy and hammy as, pardon the pun, hell.

Of course a very large problem for writes is that everyone over the age of 3 is very very genre-savvy these days. We discussed this (me and a number of friends) when we played Call of Cthulhu (tabletop RPG) and the GM complained that it was hard to make us genuinely uncomfortable. We all reassured him that he did a SPLENDID job with everything; it is just that we have seen it all. Our CHARACTERS were very scared, however.

It's the same here. Most of us can spot a plot twist a mile (if not more) away. It is nothing writers can do about it.

[Traab]

You are not alone. There was a discussion going on at the blizzard forums, and the general conclusion was that Belial was probably the worst liar, despite being the lord of lies, and Azmodan being a crappy tactician, in that he basically telegraphs his next move to the PCs (essentially giving away his entire battle strategy).

Yeah, that "plot twist" of belial was the most openly telegraphed secret I have ever experienced. The end of act 4 is the only time I was ever surprised, and that was just how it happened. I knew

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momma would do something, just didnt know what.

And I agree about asmodan,

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"Mwahaha! I am so strong and clever, I can take over your keep with ease, let me tell you exactly what I am in the process of doing so I can make it possible to stop it. Oh, you stopped that? Good thing I am also doing this right now! I AM SO VERY VERY CLEVER!!!!"

One final note, im in act 3 with my demon hunter, and may I just say that it is truly badass the things I can do with him. I face 28 mob swarms of undead and other mobs, burn through my hate with rapid fire to thin the herd, then bounce arrows all over the place to build it back up again. Most yellow mobs die under a full hate bar of rapid fire, making the minions far easier to mop up.

[Karoht]

Pains me to do this, but, spoilers out of respect for those who have not defeated normal mode.

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Azmodan wanted you to face him, and bring the Soulstone to him.
He was applying exactly enough force to keep others out of the fight, but just enough that you could wade through it, go to him, feel like it was a challenge to cover the fact that you were walking right into his hands.

As for Nightmare Mode, my Barbarian is having a wicked time. Had to change up one offensive ability for a defensive ability, but it means I can emphasize the usage of Seismic Slam a bit more, which I greatly enjoy.

[Chen]

Blizzard posted an article (which I can't link to from here) about the state of the game.

One of the notable excerpts is that only 1.9% of characters have unlocked Inferno. Which means the whining on the Blizz forums is in fact by an EXTREMELY small minority, which is kind of what I've expected.

Another interesting point was that some of the blue (magic) items people have been comparing to Legendaries are in fact higher ilvl items. The example was that comparing an ilvl 63 blue to a ilvl 60 legendary is going to make the legendary lookb bad, especially if the blue was at the high end of its stat range. They also mentioned that they are still going to buff legendaries, though likely only in the 1.1 patch (same as the PvP one) and that the buffs WON'T be retroactive.

They also mentioned reducing the Smithing costs to level (and I think cost to craft) as well as reducing the cost to combine gems at lower levels and only require two low level gems to combine to a higher level one (up to the flawless squares or whatever the highest dropped rune was).

[Avilan the Grey]

Blizzard posted an article (which I can't link to from here) about the state of the game.

One of the notable excerpts is that only 1.9% of characters have unlocked Inferno. Which means the whining on the Blizz forums is in fact by an EXTREMELY small minority, which is kind of what I've expected.

Another interesting point was that some of the blue (magic) items people have been comparing to Legendaries are in fact higher ilvl items. The example was that comparing an ilvl 63 blue to a ilvl 60 legendary is going to make the legendary lookb bad, especially if the blue was at the high end of its stat range. They also mentioned that they are still going to buff legendaries, though likely only in the 1.1 patch (same as the PvP one) and that the buffs WON'T be retroactive.

They also mentioned reducing the Smithing costs to level (and I think cost to craft) as well as reducing the cost to combine gems at lower levels and only require two low level gems to combine to a higher level one (up to the flawless squares or whatever the highest dropped rune was).

All this is very interesting and also quite expected. I figured they were going to adjust the blacksmith, since the whole idea (WoG) was that crafting should be equal to the auction house.

[Starwulf]

Blizzard posted an article (which I can't link to from here) about the state of the game.

One of the notable excerpts is that only 1.9% of characters have unlocked Inferno. Which means the whining on the Blizz forums is in fact by an EXTREMELY small minority, which is kind of what I've expected.

Another interesting point was that some of the blue (magic) items people have been comparing to Legendaries are in fact higher ilvl items. The example was that comparing an ilvl 63 blue to a ilvl 60 legendary is going to make the legendary lookb bad, especially if the blue was at the high end of its stat range. They also mentioned that they are still going to buff legendaries, though likely only in the 1.1 patch (same as the PvP one) and that the buffs WON'T be retroactive.

They also mentioned reducing the Smithing costs to level (and I think cost to craft) as well as reducing the cost to combine gems at lower levels and only require two low level gems to combine to a higher level one (up to the flawless squares or whatever the highest dropped rune was).

Everything except for the gem thing sounds like a good idea. The gem one though, is rather idiotic. You don't lose gems, period, so the 3 gems to make a better one, even if it's just up to flawless squares, is kind of redundant. I had enough gems to make a perfect gem before I made it out of normal. Now that I'm in Nightmare, even just in act 1 most of the mobs drop flawless gems. I don't want them to make it even easier to get higher tiered gems, the pace is just fine as it is. Hell, it's not like it's a particularly difficult process to get higher tier gems anyways, just go buy them from the AH. Sure, it's down right now for those types of auctions, but that won't be for to much longer, and then there will be an absolutely massive flood of those gems, dropping the prices even lower then they already were. People will be buying Radiant Squares for like 2-5k a pop, if not cheaper then that. If they make it two gems to ugprade, the AH will just be flooded even more, further dropping the price.

[Daverin]

As for Nightmare Mode, my Barbarian is having a wicked time. Had to change up one offensive ability for a defensive ability, but it means I can emphasize the usage of Seismic Slam a bit more, which I greatly enjoy.

There is seriously only one problem I have with the Barb so far: I can't decide which abilities to take!

Seriously though, he is an extremely fun character whose abilities all are so fun (intentional redundancy is intentional.) Right now, Furious Charge and Whirlwind are hilarious good times; too bad that means I can't quite fit in Seismic Slam, which is awesome too...

[Chen]

Everything except for the gem thing sounds like a good idea. The gem one though, is rather idiotic. You don't lose gems, period, so the 3 gems to make a better one, even if it's just up to flawless squares, is kind of redundant. I had enough gems to make a perfect gem before I made it out of normal. Now that I'm in Nightmare, even just in act 1 most of the mobs drop flawless gems. I don't want them to make it even easier to get higher tiered gems, the pace is just fine as it is. Hell, it's not like it's a particularly difficult process to get higher tier gems anyways, just go buy them from the AH. Sure, it's down right now for those types of auctions, but that won't be for to much longer, and then there will be an absolutely massive flood of those gems, dropping the prices even lower then they already were. People will be buying Radiant Squares for like 2-5k a pop, if not cheaper then that. If they make it two gems to ugprade, the AH will just be flooded even more, further dropping the price.

Thing is crafting up the gems below flawless squares (the best that can drop) is pointless now. It costs FAR too much because there's a huge glut of those lower level gems in the market because no one wants to use them. Converting flawless gems into a perfect gems is absolutely pointless since it probably costs on the order of 10x the amount you can go to the AH an buy a perfect gem for.

If people are selling radiant squares for 2-5k each they're idiots. It takes 9 flawless square gems and 4 conversion processes (3 conversions to make 3 perfect squares and then one more to make the radiant square) to make one radiant square. I don't recall the exact price at this level but I believe its several thousand gold per conversion step. Even if we eventually assume the market is completely saturated with flawless squares (the highest dropped gem) so that they are essentially worthless, radiant squares will need to cost whatever those 4 conversion steps cost + 15% otherwise you are strictly losing gold selling them.

[MammonAzrael]

Glad to hear I wasn't the only one that felt that way. While I don't expect Belial and Azmodan to be brilliantly writen, I think the constant communication, and thus a great exposure to them, lessened their impact. Each of the characters should be capable of carrying an entire game, just like Diablo, and yet the fact that whoever wrote them simply wasn't as brilliant as the demons were written means that they were less impressive. This extends to Diablo as well, I would have preferred to hear less from all three of them, instead hearing rumors and dark tales of their deeds, witnessing the devastation they left in their wake. I did not want to friend them on FB so I could get a status update every time I did something they didn't like.

So some people feel like the Barb was the most difficult class? But it was so easy! I only died when I got so cavalier that I wasn't taking a damn thing seriously. So many fun options!

Ending issues: What do you mean "abrupt"? It didn't end any more abrupt than D1 or D2. You get to the end and defeat the end boss. The End. Same as both other games. Besides, the expansion will soon arrive where we take care of the last two leftovers of the mess.

Also, I think it was a good idea to have the final game in the series end on a different note than the other two.

True that both of the other games were also ended quickly, and it took me a bit to put my finger on it. With Diablo, after you kill the Lord of Terror, you cut to a scene directly afterwards, of Diablo returning to Albretch, and you jamming the Soulstone into your forehead (and then Cain's dark little speech of desperate hope). With Diablo 2 you got the logical conclusion to Marius' story (including a summary of what you just accomplished), and then the threat of Baal. And in LoD after you kill Baal you go to a scene with Tyreal still inside Mount Arreat, moments after you kill Baal.

With D3, there is no direct aftermath feel. It's just "Oh, and everything's all good now and I'm gonna become the Angel of Wisdom, 'cause that dude we mentioned maybe once is still out for coffee." I don't think this specific issue would have raised it's head for me if the cut scene had started at the Crystal Arch or something, starting where you ended things.

It also likely ties in to the feel of the ending, which to me, is just too hopeful. I get that it makes sense, that it's an ending and the good guys won, but that was the case for both the previous games as well. There is no bittersweet to this one that makes it feel much less like a Diablo game. You just kill the Prime Evil and everything is ok again. I would have vastly preferred an ending where while you're victorious, you're still tempered by the loss and sorrow of Leah, the devastation that Diablo's corruption of the Crystal Arch left, and possible foreboding of wondering about Adria or even Shen's jewel.

[Karoht]

There is seriously only one problem I have with the Barb so far: I can't decide which abilities to take!

Seriously though, he is an extremely fun character whose abilities all are so fun (intentional redundancy is intentional.) Right now, Furious Charge and Whirlwind are hilarious good times; too bad that means I can't quite fit in Seismic Slam, which is awesome too...

INORITE???

Actually, I'm not so much a fan of Whirlwind.

But one thing I did try a few levels back was a Frenzy + Cleave build.
When I can literally get 3 Cleaves in a second with a 2 handed weapon, and 4 Cleaves with two weapons... yeah. Fun. Literally, it's Frenzy X5, 3X Cleave 1X Frenzy, repeat. It was awesome on some of those massive packs you get in Act 3.

I'm curious to see what kind of damage a Frenzy + Bash combo could do on single target. Alternate Frenzy and Bash until you have 5 stacks of both buffs, then Bash X4 (or more) + Frenzy X1. And just slaugher stuff. If I can get Bash to sound like a gatling gun instead of a shotgun, I will be pleased.

[Avilan the Grey]

With Diablo, after you kill the Lord of Terror, you cut to a scene directly afterwards, of Diablo returning to Albretch, and you jamming the Soulstone into your forehead (and then Cain's dark little speech of desperate hope). With Diablo 2 you got the logical conclusion to Marius' story (including a summary of what you just accomplished), and then the threat of Baal. And in LoD after you kill Baal you go to a scene with Tyreal still inside Mount Arreat, moments after you kill Baal.

With D3, there is no direct aftermath feel. It's just "Oh, and everything's all good now and I'm gonna become the Angel of Wisdom, 'cause that dude we mentioned maybe once is still out for coffee." I don't think this specific issue would have raised it's head for me if the cut scene had started at the Crystal Arch or something, starting where you ended things.

It also likely ties in to the feel of the ending, which to me, is just too hopeful. I get that it makes sense, that it's an ending and the good guys won, but that was the case for both the previous games as well. There is no bittersweet to this one that makes it feel much less like a Diablo game.

Again, I don't see a difference compared to D1 or D2. The ending is about equal in length and to me it is NOTHING BUT aftermath feel. It might be an aftermath that you do not agree with, but that is not the same thing.
Anyway regarding the hopeful ending... I really don't agree with you. Finally the "happy" ending I have fought for in three games happens. I admit I was rather disappointed finding out that my brave hero from D1 became Diablo in D2; it made the first game, story wise, sort of pointless.

So, now we are just waiting for the expansion where we get to fight and kill Imperius and Adria...

[ex cathedra]

Interesting experiment... Though my question is "why?"

Why not? I haven't completed Inferno and I decided that I'd be more interested doing it on a Demon Hunter than on my Wizard, plus I just wanted to see how it worked.

One of the notable excerpts is that only 1.9% of characters have unlocked Inferno. Which means the whining on the Blizz forums is in fact by an EXTREMELY small minority, which is kind of what I've expected.

Their opinions aren't worth less just because they're in the minority of players. It isn't like the majority of players can disagree with them, considering that said majority still hasn't experienced Inferno yet.

Another interesting point was that some of the blue (magic) items people have been comparing to Legendaries are in fact higher ilvl items. The example was that comparing an ilvl 63 blue to a ilvl 60 legendary is going to make the legendary lookb bad, especially if the blue was at the high end of its stat range. They also mentioned that they are still going to buff legendaries, though likely only in the 1.1 patch (same as the PvP one) and that the buffs WON'T be retroactive.

Not so much interesting and obvious and nearly irrelevant. I didn't really see anything that suggested that they ever dropped the ilvl system, and it's still bad design to set all of the required level 60 items at ilvl 60 considering how large the difference one ilvl makes between 60 and 63.

[Avilan the Grey]

Their opinions aren't worth less just because they're in the minority of players. It isn't like the majority of players can disagree with them, considering that said majority still hasn't experienced Inferno yet.

The key is that the main complaint is that it is "too hard" and that there isn't good enough item drops. That argument falls flat when you take in account that Blizzard has balanced the item drops for at least 10, probably 20 times as many, and that these items will be put (eventually) on either of the auction houses.

[Chen]

But one thing I did try a few levels back was a Frenzy + Cleave build. When I can literally get 3 Cleaves in a second with a 2 handed weapon, and 4 Cleaves with two weapons... yeah. Fun. Literally, it's Frenzy X5, 3X Cleave 1X Frenzy, repeat. It was awesome on some of those massive packs you get in Act 3.

I'm going to assume this is some sort of placebo effect or something because frenzy only increases the frenzy attack speed...unless there's some rune that makes it effect everything.

Their opinions aren't worth less just because they're in the minority of players. It isn't like the majority of players can disagree with them, considering that said majority still hasn't experienced Inferno yet.

No, but a lot of the pure whining posts saying how things are absolutely impossible or whatever are clearly not true. There were TONS of posts that said barbarians had NO chance in Inferno at all. And then someone cleared it as a barb solo and those stopped or changed. I suspect half of the people posting about how hard or imbalanced or whatever Inferno is, haven't been there themselves yet. Such a small number actually unlocking it already lends some credence to that I'd think.

Not so much interesting and obvious and nearly irrelevant. I didn't really see anything that suggested that they ever dropped the ilvl system, and it's still bad design to set all of the required level 60 items at ilvl 60 considering how large the difference one ilvl makes between 60 and 63.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The level 60 items are NOT all ilvl 60 that's exactly what their post said. Now, if all Legendary and Set items are ilvl 60, I agree that is an issue. I'm not necessarily sure that's the case, though it could very well be. I suspect people aren't farming heavily enough in late Inferno for there to be a lot of Legendary/Set drops from those levels yet. It's logical to believe most Legendary and Set items that have currently dropped are at the low end of the ilvl scale. I'm wondering if there's a difference between a Stormshield that drops in Act 1 Inferno and one that drops in Act 4 Inferno. The fixed stats have fixed ranges as per the game guide so I don't suspect they'd change. But if higher ilvl affects the random affixes it could make a difference.

[ChaosOS]

I think it's basically there are iLvl 60, 61, 62, AND 63 legendaries, just that people have found most of the iLvl 60+61 legendaries, but 62 and 63 are too rare currently.

On gems: I also think this is a bad idea, the problem is there are too many gems in the economy with no other sink. At least they should introduce a sink for below Flawless Square gems.

[Meta]

As someone who is in Inferno I'd like to weigh in on this.

While it is certainly possible to clear Inferno with any class, just because something is possible doesn't mean it is well designed. Playing anything other than a glass cannon beyond Act I is nigh impossible. It can be done but almost or maybe completely exclusively with gear from later acts, which I'm not terribly fond of. Because everything is a higher level and only grows,

If you've made it to Act II on any difficulty you're probably familiar with the lacuni huntresses. They will often get the jump on ya before you can hit them (they can be invulnerable in some jump animations) and it's not uncommon for them to hit for tens of thousands of damage. Since you're getting diminishing returns on each point of armor, resistance, and hp, it becomes very difficult to survive, which definitely makes it hard on the Barb and I wouldn't be entirely surprised to learn it's impossible to clear (not just act bosses) later acts in inferno without using the auction house or otherwise acquiring higher act gear.

[ex cathedra]

I think it's basically there are iLvl 60, 61, 62, AND 63 legendaries, just that people have found most of the iLvl 60+61 legendaries, but 62 and 63 are too rare currently.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The level 60 items are NOT all ilvl 60 that's exactly what their post said. Now, if all Legendary and Set items are ilvl 60, I agree that is an issue. I'm not necessarily sure that's the case, though it could very well be. I suspect people aren't farming heavily enough in late Inferno for there to be a lot of Legendary/Set drops from those levels yet. It's logical to believe most Legendary and Set items that have currently dropped are at the low end of the ilvl scale. I'm wondering if there's a difference between a Stormshield that drops in Act 1 Inferno and one that drops in Act 4 Inferno. The fixed stats have fixed ranges as per the game guide so I don't suspect they'd change. But if higher ilvl affects the random affixes it could make a difference.

You guys seem like you're making a lot of assumptions based on what you think that Inferno drops are like, but the fact of the matter is all legendary items seem to have set ilvls, and more importantly they all have pre-set base stat ranges and types so Wizardspike's stats are never going to roll on top of an ilvl 63 Dagger. Thus, its DPS will never roll high enough to compete with ilvl 63 daggers with decent mods. Weapons like Azure Wrath have terribly low base values, and the fact that they inherently roll modifiers like +cold damage and +% damage means that they can't possibly roll a higher-ilvl version of those affixes.

Using that player who solo'd inferno Diablo with 5 stacks of NV is a bad example because he used more than 15 million gold worth of equivalent to clear each act of Inferno, and all of that gear was farmed by a Witch Doctor who waltzed into Act IV and killed purples for ilvl 63 blues that sell for more than a million a piece.

[Eakin]

Just cleared Act one of Nightmare on my monk. Switched over from dual wielding to a 2-hander and my damage just skyrocketed. I also got onto the AH and bought a well-itemized staff for 20K, and I think that really killed the difficulty for me. I had also re-run Act 4 Normal to mop up some achievements and gained a few levels in the process. I assume my survival will start to diminish in NM Act 2, but right now I seem to have a pretty sweet setup. I run the evasion aura, and when hits do land I'm using the passive that heals you for every point of spirit you spend. I ping pong a lot between almost dead and full life.

When do plans for the blacksmith start dropping? Do I have to get him up to a certain level of training first?

Also, if it isn't too early to start throwing out ideas for the next thread title, I nominate "Diablo 3 Thread 2: This Thread Requires a Constant Internet Connection"

[ChaosOS]

Thread title should be Diablo III: Desecrator, Horde, Invulnerable Minions, Jailer

[otakuryoga]

Just cleared Act one of Nightmare on my monk. Switched over from dual wielding to a 2-hander and my damage just skyrocketed. I also got onto the AH and bought a well-itemized staff for 20K, and I think that really killed the difficulty for me. I had also re-run Act 4 Normal to mop up some achievements and gained a few levels in the process. I assume my survival will start to diminish in NM Act 2, but right now I seem to have a pretty sweet setup. I run the evasion aura, and when hits do land I'm using the passive that heals you for every point of spirit you spend. I ping pong a lot between almost dead and full life.

When do plans for the blacksmith start dropping? Do I have to get him up to a certain level of training first?

Also, if it isn't too early to start throwing out ideas for the next thread title, I nominate "Diablo 3 Thread 2: This Thread Requires a Constant Internet Connection"

you should have started seeing blacksmith and jewelry pages start dropping already
they started dropping for me soon as i started in nightmare

sounds like you dont have them at the stage where they start asking for pages to train though..maybe they dont drop until you need them..so get to training your guys

[pffh]

Using that player who solo'd inferno Diablo with 5 stacks of NV is a bad example because he used more than 15 million gold worth of equivalent to clear each act of Inferno, and all of that gear was farmed by a Witch Doctor who waltzed into Act IV and killed purples for ilvl 63 blues that sell for more than a million a piece.

You mean like how most people in Diablo 2 had a meteor sorceress with maximum +magic item find gear farming Mephisto for runes and gear for their other characters?

This is nothing new in Diablo.

[Traab]

Why not? I haven't completed Inferno and I decided that I'd be more interested doing it on a Demon Hunter than on my Wizard, plus I just wanted to see how it worked.


Their opinions aren't worth less just because they're in the minority of players. It isn't like the majority of players can disagree with them, considering that said majority still hasn't experienced Inferno yet.


Not so much interesting and obvious and nearly irrelevant. I didn't really see anything that suggested that they ever dropped the ilvl system, and it's still bad design to set all of the required level 60 items at ilvl 60 considering how large the difference one ilvl makes between 60 and 63.

I think the main point with the 1.9% figure is that, the game is still brand new, barely anyone has even REACHED that content, so its a bit premature to start screaming about how impossible it is. I mean, the game is what, a week and a half old? I will never understand that mindset of player. "Its a new game, ok guys, lets complete it as fast as possible so we can get bored within a week of release! WOOHOO!"

[Eakin]

you should have started seeing blacksmith and jewelry pages start dropping already
they started dropping for me soon as i started in nightmare

sounds like you dont have them at the stage where they start asking for pages to train though..maybe they dont drop until you need them..so get to training your guys

I've been getting pages ever since I started Nightmare, and I've trained the blacksmith up to level 6, I actually meant plans as in recipes for new items.

[MammonAzrael]

I think the main point with the 1.9% figure is that, the game is still brand new, barely anyone has even REACHED that content, so its a bit premature to start screaming about how impossible it is. I mean, the game is what, a week and a half old? I will never understand that mindset of player. "Its a new game, ok guys, lets complete it as fast as possible so we can get bored within a week of release! WOOHOO!"

I think the more common mindset is "This game is awesome! I'm gonna play the **** outta it because I'm obsessive and sleep is for the weak." Plus bear aging rights matter to some people (and thanks to acheivements, they have proof).

@ Avilan the Grey -I suppose it just needs to be chalked up to different preferences. I would have preferred to never have a truly happy ending (even a temporary one) in the series.

EDIT: My phone thinks that bragging is bear aging...huh...

[Dublock]

I am scared.

Last night I obtained 3 legendaries (all in normal, so only useful in short term) in around 5 hours.

I am doomed to not get any good drop for the next few months lol. Already I can't seem to get the gibbering gemstone, although I only put in 5 hours (no idea whats the "standard" time to get it).

For me the barb was hardest perhaps because he was undergeared compared to my other toons in normal, before I got upgrades he only had 2 rares, my others in Act 3 had 4 or more. But once he got better gear I was fine. My skill set up was a bit weird, cause I wanted to fool around and I tried to take that out of my review lol.

Personally when I finished the game my first time my mind immediately went to plot openings like Adria and the fact that the Black stone is still around. This doesn't prove the ending is happy or not, but personally it made me think about the future which if (when) they release the expansion(s) I will be curious.

[ex cathedra]

You mean like how most people in Diablo 2 had a meteor sorceress with maximum +magic item find gear farming Mephisto for runes and gear for their other characters?

That's not even a remotely similar situation.

The difference is this: in D2, you could progress in the game on the highest difficulty without HOTO/HoZ/Nigma/2x SoJ/Mara's/Eth Treks/etc that you would farm with your other characters.

Saying that "this one dude full cleared Inferno and solo'd Diablo with 5NV, so Barb and Inferno have got to be totally balanced" when said one dude had some of the best gear in the game that he was incapable of farming himself (and was in part only available to him because of the ****ty itemization balance and lack of solidity contributed to the AH by its age) is somewhat flawed. That, and just that, was my point.

I think the main point with the 1.9% figure is that, the game is still brand new, barely anyone has even REACHED that content, so its a bit premature to start screaming about how impossible it is.

So, you're saying that the experiences of the minority are somehow less valid because the majority of players, who aren't even involved in the conversation/feedback between players in inferno and developers, have no experience of their own to which to compare? How does that make any sense?

I will never understand that mindset of player. "Its a new game, ok guys, lets complete it as fast as possible so we can get bored within a week of release! WOOHOO!"

I'll never understand why you feel that you should judge people who enjoy the game in a way that you don't.

[PEACH]

You guys seem like you're making a lot of assumptions based on what you think that Inferno drops are like, but the fact of the matter is all legendary items seem to have set ilvls, and more importantly they all have pre-set base stat ranges and types so Wizardspike's stats are never going to roll on top of an ilvl 63 Dagger. Thus, its DPS will never roll high enough to compete with ilvl 63 daggers with decent mods. Weapons like Azure Wrath have terribly low base values, and the fact that they inherently roll modifiers like +cold damage and +% damage means that they can't possibly roll a higher-ilvl version of those affixes.

Using that player who solo'd inferno Diablo with 5 stacks of NV is a bad example because he used more than 15 million gold worth of equivalent to clear each act of Inferno, and all of that gear was farmed by a Witch Doctor who waltzed into Act IV and killed purples for ilvl 63 blues that sell for more than a million a piece.

Wait, how does Azure Wrath have "terribly low base values?" If you compare it to all of the other swords, it's got an absurdly high base damage value. The added cold damage, % damage, and aspd aren't amazingly high individually, but they're more than high enough to get the DPS to absurd levels, though the 2 random properties won't really get a ton of benefit in all likelihood. The max possible DPS on it is 1827 (not taking into account attribute bonuses or what the two magic properties can do; if it gets +crit chance and +crit damage, it'd be much more powerful). That's incredibly high for a one handed weapon, as far as I can tell.

[ex cathedra]

Wait, how does Azure Wrath have "terribly low base values?" If you compare it to all of the other swords, it's got an absurdly high base damage value. The added cold damage, % damage, and aspd aren't amazingly high individually, but they're more than high enough to get the DPS to absurd levels, though the 2 random properties won't really get a ton of benefit in all likelihood. The max possible DPS on it is 1827 (not taking into account attribute bonuses or what the two magic properties can do; if it gets +crit chance and +crit damage, it'd be much more powerful). That's incredibly high for a one handed weapon, as far as I can tell.

The cold damage, +% damage, and +% attack speed are already taken into account. If you find an AW it will have DPS values between those shown; ~500 and ~700.