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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Favored Soul Handbook?

    Where can I find the information one would ordinarily get in a favored soul handbook? My google fu has turned up no such page, so I'm curious. Advice on Prestige classes, which such a handbook might not cover, would also be useful.

    Note: This is for a character I'm helping build for a newbie in the Gestalt game I'm about to start in which he wanted a divine caster. Tier one and six classes are banned, so cleric is out. His stats are 11, 13, 14, 16, 18, 18 and two free +2 which can't raise a stat above 18 before racial bonuses or be put in the same stat. The other side is probably going to be paladin of freedom, which would allow him to take DMM feats. His race is currently planned to be Aasimar.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    There is not much information out there. The feat "Versatile Spellcaster" is often recommended and the prestige class Malconvoker fits as well.
    If I could play dungeons & dragons with only four books: MM I, DMG, PHB, & ToB
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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Typically any such handbook just says "Play a cleric instead" or if they want to get fancy "Play a spontaneous variant cleric instead".

    The split stat casting and the lack of both domains and turn undead is a pretty big turnoff. That what you get in its place are some class features that emulate spells you got several levels earlier, and weapon focus/spec... and you have a class that just can't really measure up to what's already in core.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    About the only thing you need to know are what the six best spells per spell level are and that is the extent of non-cleric optimization that you need.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Take the Spontaneous Healer feat and then never add any healing spells to your spell list. (Except for Heal, of course.)

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    You could try out the Oracle, if you don't mind a bit of PF material.
    Prestige Bard, updated for Pathfinder.

    Revamped Spell Resistance system, for use with Spell Points/Psionics.

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Quote Originally Posted by MeeposFire View Post
    About the only thing you need to know are what the six best spells per spell level are and that is the extent of non-cleric optimization that you need.
    No, that's not all you need to know. A very big part of a Favored Soul's abilities comes from their deity's favored weapon, because the FS gets as class abilities a bunch of weapon-specific feats. It's good to know, for instance, that Kossuth and Zoser have spiked chain as their favored weapon. That gives a Favored Soul worshiping one of them the following feats:
    • Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) (level 1)
    • Weapon Focus (spiked chain) (level 3)
    • Weapon Specialization (spiked chain) (level 12)
    If you're going for a spiked chain, then it's helpful to look at what Steadfast Boots (Magic Item Compendium, pages 138-139) can do for you while you wield one.

    It's also good to know that Knowstones (from Dragon # 333, page 93) work for divine spontaneous spellcasters as well as arcane; they're not just for Sorcerers. The FS can learn extra spells as long as they can afford the (spell level)2 x 1,000 gp price.

    What else? Well, since your daily spell allotment is dictated by Charisma, and spell DCs are a function of Wisdom, you've got two spellcasting stats. It's good to know that an Aasimar gets a racial bonus to both of these, and a Lesser Aasimar (see Player's Guide to FaerŻn on page 191) is a Humanoid with no LA.

    Favored Souls aren't proficient with heavy armor the way regular Clerics are. The Cloistered Cleric "fix" I came up with works for Favored Souls, too.

    1) Start with the right clothing.
    Scholarís Outfit

    Perfect for a scholar, this outfit includes a robe, a belt, a cap, soft shoes, and possibly a cloak.
    2) Next, enhance the robe with an armor bonus (up to +8), as per Magic Item Compendium page 234. This works exactly the same as Bracers of Armor; the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" table allows armor bonuses in both Arms (bracers) and Body (robe) slots.

    3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus with Magic Vestment:
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Vestment
    You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level).

    An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.
    4) Finally, realize that your armor boost (up to +13) isn't from actual armor at all, and thus you can still wear a Monk's Belt to get (1 + WIS bonus) more AC!

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Dump the weapon abilities. Take the alternate class feature in PHB II. IF you feel strongly that you want to use some particular weapon waste a feat on it.
    Last edited by Jopustopin; 2011-10-01 at 01:26 AM.
    If I could play dungeons & dragons with only four books: MM I, DMG, PHB, & ToB
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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    I cast Detect Cheese and it was stinky. I approve.

    Edit: That varient has any beneficial spell cast on a party member grants temp hp. So with that you don't need to heal much.
    Last edited by TurtleKing; 2011-10-01 at 01:29 AM.
    Thanks to my cancer looking at one to two months left to live. Prayers are always welcome and have fun.

    Live like your dying because today could be your last day.

    I do have access to my laptop so can be on more often until my time is up. I do plan on making the most of it without investing into any long-term pbp.

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jopustopin View Post
    Dump the weapon abilities. Take the alternate class feature in PHB II. IF you feel strongly that you want to use some particular weapon waste a feat on it.
    If you take the Deity's Favor ACF, you still retain the weapon proficiency. Deity's Favor doesn't kick in until level 3, and is only good for one character (which could be the FS) until level 12.

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    For Favor Soul, remember you don't get Know: Religion.

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Probably a thematic reason why. Favored Souls didn't spend years studing and praying like a cleric. Favored Souls it comes natural just like a Sorcerer. So it is the time spent studing that adds in Know: Religion. Wouldn/t suprised if a Favored Soul could take the Heritage feats like a Sorcerer. Both get their power for some sort of ancestry. For a Favored Soul it is usually with some outsider as the source. PLus doesn't have to be holy as they can be unholy as well. So what is your opinion on Favored Soul getting Sorcerer Heritage feats as well?
    Thanks to my cancer looking at one to two months left to live. Prayers are always welcome and have fun.

    Live like your dying because today could be your last day.

    I do have access to my laptop so can be on more often until my time is up. I do plan on making the most of it without investing into any long-term pbp.

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    According to a web enhancement they can start with knowledge religion instead of knowledge arcana. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x
    If I could play dungeons & dragons with only four books: MM I, DMG, PHB, & ToB
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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    ^^ Too bad Sorcs get Know: Arcana (just like FS) and Know: Religion covers evil religions.

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jopustopin View Post
    According to a web enhancement they can start with knowledge religion instead of knowledge arcana. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x
    I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the Designers Notes here, the concept of a character who was chosen by some random deity, without the character's knowledge, does have RP appeal.
    They are a reasonable choice for PrC entry if you can save a feat eg Stormlord; but whilst spontaneous divine casters are good for tanking in a non DMM game: Spontaneous Cleric is a better option.
    What I found strange is that they often cannot learn spells which are unique to domains granted by their patron: this seems an obvious oversight.
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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    There is a trick you can do with the Favored Soul...If you play a race with an inborn magical trick (such as the Aasimars Light) you can easily pick up the rest of the qualifications for Sand Shaper. That is a delicious boost in spells known.

    A good PrC is Knight of the Raven. Mixing Sand Shaper and Knight of the Raven is not recommended, though, both lose you a level of casting.

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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Aeshkrau Illumians offer Strength for bonus spells, so that reduces your need for Cha. If you were playing them using the Spiked Chain advice from Curmudgeon, that could come in handy.
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
    There is a trick you can do with the Favored Soul...If you play a race with an inborn magical trick (such as the Aasimars Light) you can easily pick up the rest of the qualifications for Sand Shaper.
    This trick is dependent on finding a generous DM who ignores some of the rules, on two points.
    • Sand Shaper requires
      Spells or Spell-Like Abilities: Arcane caster level 5th.
      However, Aasimars get
      Daylight (Sp): An aasimar can use daylight once per day as a 1st-level caster or a caster of his class levels, whichever is higher.
      There's no mention of Daylight granting an arcane caster level, and since it's on the spell lists of both arcane and divine classes it isn't necessarily of either type.
      .
    • Desert Insight says:
      These spells become options for you when you gain access to the appropriate spell level.
      Since Aasimar Favored Souls have just a single spell-like ability (no type specified), no arcane spellcasting class levels, and thus can never take advantage of "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class", the Sand Shaper spells never become options (become known).

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    1) Actually, all racial sp abilities default to arcane.

    2) On Desert Insight, you seem to be implying that the Desert Insigth progression is somehow tied to the way you qualify for the class. This is not so. Desert Insight adds the spells known to any and all arcane spell casting classes you have, and all spontaneous casting lists (Thats how Versatile Spellcaster/Desert Insight/ UM cheese works)

    For example, if an Ultimate Magus dips 1 level of Sand Shaper, Desert Insight will add spells known to both his spontaneous casting class and his prepared one. As further Ultimate Magus levels lets him cast higher level spells, Desert Insight will keep adding spells known.

    No-one ever takes more than one level of Sand Shaper, its just dipped into for Desert Insight (Although I once made a theoretical build that could get the Ressurection ability and 9th level spells)
    Last edited by Grim Reader; 2011-10-01 at 01:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
    1) Actually, all racial sp abilities default to arcane.
    Can you cite a RAW source for that? The treatment of special abilities in Dungeon Master's Guide (page 289) doesn't say that, nor does the Monster Manual (page 315) say anything about Spell-Like abilities being arcane. I also checked Rules Compendium (page 118). Perhaps you're thinking of a house rule.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Reader
    2) On Desert Insight, you seem to be implying that the Desert Insigth progression is somehow tied to the way you qualify for the class.
    No, I'm not implying that. I simply noted that Desert Insight only grants access to those spells when you progress in (total) arcane spell levels, which could be a combination of Sand Shaper and other levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Insight
    These spells become options for you when you gain access to the appropriate spell level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Reader
    No-one ever takes more than one level of Sand Shaper, its just dipped into for Desert Insight
    This works if you already have sufficient arcane spellcasting access. With no arcane spellcasting, Desert Insight alone gives you no new spell options.

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the Designers Notes here, the concept of a character who was chosen by some random deity, without the character's knowledge, does have RP appeal.
    Then, uh, just don't put any ranks in the skill? That they've added it to the class list doesn't mean you have to use it.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    Can you cite a RAW source for that? The treatment of special abilities in Dungeon Master's Guide (page 289) doesn't say that, nor does the Monster Manual (page 315) say anything about Spell-Like abilities being arcane. I also checked Rules Compendium (page 118). Perhaps you're thinking of a house rule.
    I'm pretty sure I've seen it in print, but I just moved, and can't quite locate all my books. The basic rule is:

    "Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monsterís spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order." which is from the SRD.

    Skip Williams in the "Rules of the Game: All about Spell-like Abillities" restates this as applying to all creatures spell-like abilities.

    Now like I said, I'm pretty sure Ive seen it in print, and I'm pretty sure it was before Complete Arcane, which on page 71 is already going on about the only reason spell-like abilities don't have a chance of arcane spell failiure is because they don't have somatic components. (Unlike invocations, the only difference between the two.)

    Note that if a spell-like ability needs a somatic component, it is subject to arcane spell failiure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    No, I'm not implying that. I simply noted that Desert Insight only grants access to those spells when you progress in (total) arcane spell levels, which could be a combination of Sand Shaper and other levels.
    This works if you already have sufficient arcane spellcasting access. With no arcane spellcasting, Desert Insight alone gives you no new spell options.

    Desert Insight
    never mentions arcane. In fact, it even goes as far as to note that it adds spells known to all spontaneous casters.
    Last edited by Grim Reader; 2011-10-01 at 04:10 PM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleKing View Post
    Probably a thematic reason why. Favored Souls didn't spend years studing and praying like a cleric. Favored Souls it comes natural just like a Sorcerer. So it is the time spent studing that adds in Know: Religion. Wouldn/t suprised if a Favored Soul could take the Heritage feats like a Sorcerer. Both get their power for some sort of ancestry. For a Favored Soul it is usually with some outsider as the source. PLus doesn't have to be holy as they can be unholy as well. So what is your opinion on Favored Soul getting Sorcerer Heritage feats as well?
    But Sorcerers get Knowledge: Arcana.
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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    how tied is this character to FS?

    because i would suggest divine bard.

    then, if he picks up the game quickly, i would see if he is comfortable switching his paladin levels for crusader.

    and also, aasimar or lesser aasimar?
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
    "Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monsterís spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order." which is from the SRD.
    That's originally from page 315 of Monster Manual. The presumption only refers to the behavior ("work differently") of SLAs; it's got nothing to say about their type.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Reader
    Note that if a spell-like ability needs a somatic component, it is subject to arcane spell failiure.
    I don't know where you're getting that from, either. From that same Monster Manual page:
    Spell-Like: Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, material, focus, or XP components).

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Its from Complete Arcane, page 71. "The only difference between Invocations and other spell-like abilities is that Invocations require somatic gestures and are therefore subject to arcane spell failiure"

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
    Its from Complete Arcane, page 71. "The only difference between Invocations and other spell-like abilities is that Invocations require somatic gestures and are therefore subject to arcane spell failiure"
    I don't see how the specific rules for Warlocks have any bearing on this issue. Rules for Warlock invocation SLAs don't apply generally. The Warlock is an arcane class (note their presence in the Classes chapter of Complete Arcane ). You can't apply specific rules ("I'm a person. I have brown hair."/"Warlock invocation SLAs are arcane.") generally ("All persons have brown hair."/"All SLAs are arcane.").

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the Designers Notes here, the concept of a character who was chosen by some random deity, without the character's knowledge, does have RP appeal.
    ...
    Then, uh, just don't put any ranks in the skill? That they've added it to the class list doesn't mean you have to use it.
    Did you read the text ?
    It says "As every favoured soul worships a god..."
    Thats the assumption I was questioning.
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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Quote Originally Posted by gallagher View Post
    how tied is this character to FS?

    because i would suggest divine bard.

    then, if he picks up the game quickly, i would see if he is comfortable switching his paladin levels for crusader.

    and also, aasimar or lesser aasimar?
    What does divine bard offer that's worth 7th, 8th, and 9th level spells? What does crusader offer that's worth access to DMM?

    For others, given that LA buyoff rules are in effect and we are starting at 6th, the plan is Aasimar, not lesser Aasimar; however, if somebody has a good reason to switch I'd consider it.

    In case anybody missed it, I mentioned that cleric is banned in the op. Also, given the ability scores, I don't think the character needs to care about MAD very much.

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    Default Re: Favored Soul Handbook?

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    I don't see how the specific rules for Warlocks have any bearing on this issue. Rules for Warlock invocation SLAs don't apply generally. The Warlock is an arcane class (note their presence in the Classes chapter of Complete Arcane ). You can't apply specific rules ("I'm a person. I have brown hair."/"Warlock invocation SLAs are arcane.") generally ("All persons have brown hair."/"All SLAs are arcane.").
    Itdoes not become a specific rule for Warlocks because it is in the Warlock section. If that was the case, familiar rules would only apply to Sorcerer familiars. It is a rule for Invocations and how they work, clearing up how and why they differ from other spell-like abilities. It states that they are spell-like abilities with somatic components, and therefore have arcane spell failiure.

    "The only difference between Invocations and other spell-like abilities is that Invocations require somatic gestures and are therefore subject to arcane spell failiure"

    Note how it points out the difference between Invocations and general spell-like abilities, and specifies why Invocations have arcane spell failiure: Not because they differ by being arcane, but because they differ by having somatic components.
    Dragonfire Adept Invocations also have arcane spell failiure.
    Last edited by Grim Reader; 2011-10-01 at 05:37 PM.

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