General Exalted Discussion Thread VII: Playground Eternal Essence

[aetherialDawn]

I have a request. Although related to Infernals, it is purely mechanical (at least I wish and hope that it is.)
Can anyone figure out for me the resources costs for average Artifact 1, Artifact 2, and Artifact 3 Exotic Ingredients? Potentially helpful: Page 78 of Oadenol's Codex calls out 10 talents of Jade as appropriate to Artifact 3 or above. Also calls out a frozen lightning bolt, or the blood of a Second Circle demon.

Answers expressed in (# of Resources 2 Purchases) receive bonus points.

I shall return on the morrow to collect the slurry of combined knowledge.

Edit: Ooh, and I'm starting a new page with this. Nifty.

[ShadowFighter15]

There's never a reason not to have more Malfeas Charms.

As far as that video goes, most of it's actually already covered. What I'm seeing is an Infernal Monster stylist who activates Devil Tyrant Shintai about midway through the fight. The energy blasts are just Star-Piercing Spear of Glory. The video did give me some ideas for more Demon City Beautification Charms, though, so I might have new material over the weekend.

Note to self: read through MoEP - Infernals again sometime.

[TheCountAlucard]

Answers expressed in (# of Resources 2 Purchases) receive bonus points.

Not happening; Resources 2 won't be able to afford you the exotic materials necessary for an artifact. Ten talents of jade is just under a year's wages for a person with Resources 5. To put that in terms of Resources 2, that's about 640 purchases. In other words, if you buy the "exotic materials" with Resources, they're probably not exotic enough.

And no, Lord Raziere, it specifies in the table that "Resources" indicates not the purchase of exotic materials, but just the amount necessary to cover the base raw materials.

[meschlum]

My, how things move!

Light Armor Polish

The Raksha heard a silly tale of Dragonbloods spending decades designing new types of Jade Armor which might allow them to fly for brief intervals. Admiring the tactical genius of the Dragonbloods (the Fair Folk were so busy literally laughing their heads off they didn't notice when the Chosen of Gaia visited and started actually taking the heads), one of them decided to reward the inventive psychotic murderers and show them how it was done.

Thus, Honest Nor and his Rag Collection meandered into Creation, granting the blessings of the Wyld to anyone who asked - and quite a few who did not. The Polish is a rather clean rag, which Nor uses to bring a vict... customer's armor o a fine shine. If said client then promises to "Wark the burdles by meser-tide", a brand new rag is thrown into the deal.

So long as the rag is used to keep a buyer's armor clean, said protection becomes incredibly light - though no less bulky, and, when worn, allows its bearer to fly. Losing or damaging the rag is... discouraged. Thus far, no one has managed to work out what burdles are, or when meser-tide is, but with more than one division of Dragonbloods now flight capable, it is cause for worry.

1-dot Adjuration: "I shall wark the burdles by meser-tide, and my ragged staff will keep my armor clean."
Gossamer Wing Flight

Nor uses Forging the Staff Grace to create a Staff Grace for customers, creating a nigh-indestructible rag that grants +Essence dice to cleaning armor and linking it to the Polish.


Sticking the Moon where the Sun won't Shine

Not a piece of Grace Magic, merely an observation.

Spirit Flaying Meditation allows the user (a Raksha, fae-blooded, Lunar, Sidereal, Eclipsoid or Exalted fae-blooded) to permanently remove a dot from a trait. It has not been touched by errata.

For Raksha, this includes Stasis.

For Lunars, this includes permanent Limit. Or Charms granting the same. Or Lunar Bond.

For Sidereals, this includes Permanent Paradox.

For Abyssals, this includes Whispers.

For Infernals, this includes Past Lives, Unwoven Coadjutors...

Enjoy!


On other matters

Creating an exponentially growing and greatly improved Creation in the Wyld is part of the goal of the Gossamer Path, but you knew that. If you need hard reality separation, so that nothing from outside can get at you, it's possible too.

Is there any point in my stating that most of Drascin's Lunar Charms could be done by (ab)using Fair Folk, which is all they (the Raksha) deserve anyway?

It is traditional to point out that more Dragon Kings can be spawned by the Raksha whenever they get around to it, so I might as well.

1-dot Artifact: 4 gossamer, so access to a mortal and the Wyld for 4 days.
2-dot Artifact: 4 gossamer, and access to a noble / Exalt.
3-dot Artifact: 3 gossamer, and a Shaping Quest against an Unshaped. Can I recommend one that is stuck inside your Chancel, so you can threaten to destroy it if it tries to win?
4-dot Artifact: 6 gossamer, two quests.
5-dot Artifact: 9 gossamer, three quests.

Note that by one reading of the text (not corrected in errata), the gossamer cost at 3+ dot artifacts is 0. Crafting time is also upredictable.



Shredding the Heart of Existence

Some time ago, a wave of change swept over and through the Wyld, propagating into Creation itself, then smashing through Malfeas, the Underworld, and even Autochton itself. I the wake of this alteration, the past has been changed, but what truly happened no one knows. Only at the edges of the dreams of Oramus can the mighty catch a hint of what took place, the echo of an echo of a fragment of a phrase... the word "Errata".

What is known for certain is that the Shredding was once many, a potent drug brewed in the madness of Pure Chaos, ever promising to destroy any being not of the Raksha. Now, it is less, for the Exalted are known to be immune to its workings, and the brew operates far more slowly...

Pre-errata:
3-dot Oneiromancy
Assumption of Dreams and Passion: an incredibly desirable statue of a wombat. At least, that is what it looked like to its last victim.
Spirit Flaying Meditation: Each time it is seen by its victim, the Shredding removes one dot from the target's permanent Essence. Since it is a 3-dot Oneiromancy, this happens even through Glamour Resistance, and so affects any victim that does not have Shaping defenses on 24/7.
9 points worth of whatever. Maybe Assumption of the Tainted Land, since Spirit Flaying Meditation only works in the Wyld?

Post-errata:
1-dot Oneiromancy
Assumption of Dreams and Passion: an incredibly desirable statue of a wombat. At least, that is what it looked like to its last victim.
Emotion-Weaving Style: If used by a sufficiently powerful Raksha (such as a creation-level Heroic Worker with Heart Stopping Numinous Power), it changes the Motivation of its named victim to "Destroy myself so utterly there are no remnants left". This works on spirits and the dead, so Yozi and Neverborn are included.

As an alternative, in either case, use a Worker with Assumption of the Person's Heart and Spirit Flaying Meditation. If (if) it can share the Charm, it can destroy the Essence of its target over time. As a Shaping effect, sadly.

[Recaiden]

Answers expressed in (# of Resources 2 Purchases) receive bonus points.

Happening. Page 24 Of the Codex details that they can be produced with extra work in a chain of artifacts of rating one less.
Component for Artifact 1 is 1 Resource 1 purchase
Components for Artifact 2 are 2 Resource 2 purchases + 2 resource 1
Components for Artifact 3 are 3 Resource 3 + 3 Resource 2 + 3 resource 1
As each Resource 3 is about 100 Resource 2 purchases, that adds up to:
It may be something like this, but there are lots of ways to do the math:

Artifact 1: Less than 1
Artifact 2: 2-3
Artifact 3: ~331

Keep in mind that this may make it take longer than questing for suitable ingredients yourself.

[Drascin]

*snip'd for length*

Ah, thanks for the commentary. Every bit is useful! And glad to hear you mostly liked them. About your particular objections...

On Sorcerous: I dunno. Making up utterly redundant keywords just out of some silly fluff point just seems like really really bad design. That some Exalted writers have done it doesn't mean it should be done .

On the Eyes of Lunacy: The mention about the Beyond is because Luna came from the Beyond. Besides, you might have noticed I'm pushing pretty hard the "Lunars as walking spacetime dimensional cluster****s" angle - I want Lunars to be the guys moving between all worlds and taking a bit of each. Them being able to touch a bit on granddaddy's world is really quite fine by me. And the idea of doing the metaphysical equivalent of having Oramus look into his window into the Beyond and see a Lunar go past honking and waving driving his invisible car is just too amusing .

On the Pawn Exultation: Hm. Should see what happened with that charm and give a think about it...

For Drascin:
*snip*

Thanks for the kind words. Glad you liked them. Still a bunch more in the working, but I probably should start trying to fix stuff for the sidereal I'm actually playing instead of doing random reference charms for a bit . About your objections, though:

About the Apparitions: Nah, the gossamer thing is just a bit of fluffy wording, not about actual Gossamer of the kind Fae move. Could have used "dreams" or "fears" the same way - probably will, really, to avoid these confusions. Also, Craft Glamour is a skill that probably shouldn't exist in the first place, not going to make my charms ask for it!

Also, Nox doesn't really exist beyond a small "what if" note in the Sidereals manual. He's not there, and so he's not really a concern thematically speaking. I have no qualms about thematically stepping on the toes of someone that doesn't exist .

About Knife Recursion: ...duration scene? What? I'm not sure I understand you. They're instantaneous effects - the knife blinks and comes back for a single extra pass. If that second pass still misses, you'd have to reuse the Recursion - and remember, never more than Essence projectiles recursed at the same time! It's just a setup for next action, it doesn't last a minute let alone a scene.

Drascin, couple of suggestions.

Ogre’s Annihilating Roar should definitely have the requirement of Lion's Roar Rebuke.
Lunacy-Inducing Eyes seems like it's a presence effect of some kind.
Silver Knife Recursion needs some clause that it doesn't work with extra action charms.

- Hm. I guess. It's just never quite saw the actual usefulness of the Rebuke, I guess. But it's what makes the most sense, yes. Any suggestions for prerequisites to the others?
- I was doubting between Presence and Performance, yes. Presence it is!
- Hmmmm... On one hand, it's probably needed for balance, yes. On the other, this is mostly meant to be the start of a little cascade that lets a Lunar play Sakuya Izayoi, so leaving the possibility of knifespamming and then saving the ones that missed for another go is really tempting... but yeah, probably for the best. Would be ripe for way too many projectiles otherwise.

--------------

Is there any point in my stating that most of Drascin's Lunar Charms could be done by (ab)using Fair Folk, which is all they (the Raksha) deserve anyway?

...aaaand now I feel useless. Weeee. Goddamn.

Though I guess if only Raksha could do it, it was still pretty necessary. Because most campaigns don't really make use of Raksha, most STs don't like using Raksha in the first place, and even with a fair percentage of the ones that do use them trying the weirder kind of Meschlumisms is likely to end up with a book tossed your way .

Happening. Page 24 Of the Codex details that they can be produced with extra work in a chain of artifacts of rating one less.
Component for Artifact 1 is 1 Resource 1 purchase
Components for Artifact 2 are 2 Resource 2 purchases + 2 resource 1
Components for Artifact 3 are 3 Resource 3 + 3 Resource 2 + 3 resource 1
As each Resource 3 is about 100 Resource 2 purchases, that adds up to:

Artifact 1: Less than 1
Artifact 2: 2-3
Artifact 3: ~331
Artifact 4: ~2041
Artifact 5: ~7551

Keep in mind that this makes it take longer than questing for suitable ingredients yourself.

I feel I should point out that "a vial of Celestial Exalt blood" is explicitly called out as a valid exotic component for artifacts with a thematic component related to said Exalt type, and that Infernals and Lunars can regenerate .

[TheCountAlucard]

Component for Artifact 1 is 1 Resource 1 purchase

Umm, no, it isn't.

Components for Artifact 2 are 2 Resource 2 purchases + 2 resource 1

No, they aren't.

Components for Artifact 3 are 3 Resource 3 + 3 Resource 2 + 3 resource 1

Mind citing some sources, please? Because pretty much everything I've looked at with regard to artifact creation says otherwise.

I feel I should point out that "a vial of Celestial Exalt blood" is explicitly called out as a valid exotic component for artifacts with a thematic component related to said Exalt type, and that Infernals and Lunars can regenerate .

The creature’s Essence must be at least two dots greater than the artifact’s intended rating. Exalted must have an Essence three dots greater, and they may not spend their own blood to power an artifact they create.

So, yeah, if you've got an Essence 6+ Lunar on your side, you might be able to produce some non-wimpy artifacts, maybe.

[Drascin]

So, yeah, if you've got an Essence 6+ Lunar on your side, you might be able to produce some non-wimpy artifacts, maybe.

Hm. I only remembered the 2 dots higher thing. And since what we're probably gonna need is a way to mass-produce 2-dot artifacts, that was fine - an Essence 4 Lunar is pretty doable. But if it's three, we're missing a dot then.

Alternatively - hey, guys, we just killed an Abyssal. I don't know his Essence, but someone have a bottle? Might as well see if we can use him for something

[The Glyphstone]

Not really related to anything, but I got up this morning with a couple of random phrases bouncing around in my head, and immediately thought "those sound like Exalted charms". But what would a charm/charms called Insignificant Ameoba Osmosis and Unsundered Archipelago Admonishment do?

[Volthawk]

Not really related to anything, but I got up this morning with a couple of random phrases bouncing around in my head, and immediately thought "those sound like Exalted charms". But what would a charm/charms called Insignificant Ameoba Osmosis and Unsundered Archipelago Admonishment do?

Hmm....

Insignificant Ameoba Osmosis...well, could be a Yozi charm. The 'insignificant ameoba' are humans in the view of the Yozi in question, and perhaps the charm sorta works to make people spread out like some mass UMI effect, so instead of concentrated cities surrounded by less concentrated countryside, a region affected would be a region where there isn't one concentrated city, everyone living spread out with no real center - the population concentration where the city was is now the same as that in the countryside. No idea of the actual use of it, mind, but I guess it could be useful in certain circumstances, like if you want to take over a city but there's too many defenders.

Unsundered Archipelago Admonishment...I dunno, maybe disrupt flight magic stuff, so floating manses/islands come down to the ground?

[Xefas]

Insignificant Ameoba Osmosis

I'm imagining an expansion to Pattern Reassertion Touch that absorbs badly wounded people into your body, putting them in a stasis where they can't act, but they heal more quickly. Also, if they decide they prefer living in a bubble of Oppressive Infernal Huggles, the target can leave their sentience behind as part of you, and voluntarily offer their body to be spit out as a Mind Spider Curse puppet.

[Volthawk]

I'm imagining an expansion to Pattern Reassertion Touch that absorbs badly wounded people into your body, putting them in a stasis where they can't act, but they heal more quickly. Also, if they decide they prefer living in a bubble of Oppressive Infernal Huggles, the target can leave their sentience behind as part of you, and voluntarily offer their body to be spit out as a Mind Spider Curse puppet.

Ooh, I like this one.

[Yuki Akuma]

I don't know about you guys, but Oppressive Infernal Huggles totally sounds like a charm created by some sort of teenaged girl Devil Tiger.

[Drascin]

Not really related to anything, but I got up this morning with a couple of random phrases bouncing around in my head, and immediately thought "those sound like Exalted charms". But what would a charm/charms called Insignificant Ameoba Osmosis and Unsundered Archipelago Admonishment do?

The Osmosis thing sounds Lunar. It's all about absorbing people and the Amoeba thing makes me think of Lunars.

Unsundered Archipielago sounds like some kind of Yozi charm.

[Recaiden]

Reasonable disagreements

Creating an exotic component (an ingredient or tool) for an artifact is equivalent to creating an artifact one dot lower than the artifact for which it is intended. This includes the need for natural exotic materials… or reagents equivalent to still weaker artifacts.

So perhaps it all fails for artifact one, or requires no materials. And creating an artifact requires resources in addition to exotic components, and time.

Unsundered Archipelago Admonishment sounds to me like an anti-UMI charm. MAybe helps whenever you Mental Parry something.

[Turalisj]

Is anyone interested in starting up a sandbox game over on rpol.net?

[Rikandur Azebol]

You grieve over it too ? BTW, do You know how to contact SDoM ?

[Lix Lorn]

I don't know about you guys, but Oppressive Infernal Huggles totally sounds like a charm created by some sort of teenaged girl Devil Tiger.

QUICK!
SOMEONE LIGHT THE BUNNY SIGNAL!

[Turalisj]

Speaking of teenage girl Devil-Tigers, my highschool-AU exalted game is still recruiting:

http://rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=46132&date=1319729949

[masterjoda99]

I could use a bit of advice/assistance on spending my background dots on an infernal. The concept of him is a reality warper who favors SWLiHN and Achsam, whose eventual goal is to create his own universe that is to his liking, and is a bit like Sarda from 8-bit theater. I've spent 3 background dots on an inversion cuirass (from the infernals book) for that extra bit of defense, but really don't know what to do with those last 7 points and 4 bp. I had thought of a lightning box setup, but my research suggests those to be horribly broken and I don't like to willingly unleash broken crap on my GM, as he is a close friend of mine.

Any advice/suggestions?

[Tavar]

Is anyone interested in starting up a sandbox game over on rpol.net?

Does it need to be on rpol? Because, my game is still recruiting on the forums.

[Turalisj]

Doesn't NEED to be I guess....

And no offense Tavar, but I dislike some of your houserules... Like the one that makes more math by having bonuses counting from items be against the dice cap.

[Story Time]

For Meschlum:

Spoiler

Show

Light Armor Polish

Neat!

Sticking the Moon where the Sun won't Shine

Meschlum, do you mean Solar Bond? ...neat.

Is there any point in my stating that most of Drascin's Lunar Charms could be done by (ab)using Fair Folk, which is all they (the Raksha) deserve anyway?

Meschlum...that really isn't nice or fair. Most applications of Wyld can do the impossible which covers almost all feasible charms. On the same side of the coin, you are likely more familiar with Wyld lore and charms than most other people are with their own favorite manuals.

It is traditional to point out that more Dragon Kings can be spawned by the Raksha whenever they get around to it, so I might as well.

While this is neat, I've actually found something that I disagree with you in. Shame. Dragon Kings ( real Dragon Kings, anyway ) should come from Gaia.

Shredding the Heart of Existence

YES! Yozi Killing Wombat!

For Drascin:

Spoiler

Show

Don't get discouraged. It's okay if not every-one agrees with you. Meschlum...just happens to be very good at what he does. This does not make your charms useless or less than valuable.

My encouragement to you is just keep moving forward. By moving your ideas and the executions of those ideas will improve. At the end of the day that's more important than the views of a bunch of fanatics on a single forum.

Yes, I include myself in that sentiment.

[...]Insignificant Ameoba Osmosis and Unsundered Archipelago Admonishment do?

Medicine charm to remove all diseases from a victim and into the Exalt. The Second...sounds like a War or Bureaucracy charm. Something that could be used against a group of people or lands. It definitely reminds me of the West...but also that the country would require a functional and healthy government or economy.

Just two cents.

[aetherialDawn]

Not happening; Resources 2 won't be able to afford you the exotic materials necessary for an artifact. Ten talents of jade is just under a year's wages for a person with Resources 5. To put that in terms of Resources 2, that's about 640 purchases. In other words, if you buy the "exotic materials" with Resources, they're probably not exotic enough.

I point out that 1) You have just specified in Resources 2 purchases the amount required for an Artifact 3 Exotic Material amount of Jade 2) Jade is a viable Exotic Material by its magical nature despite not necessarily being 'rare' 3) Generally the dot scale isn't linear, so an Artifact 1 Exotic Material is significantly less exotic and expensive.

'Exotic' is a misnomer - it really should be 'Magical' Materials/Ingredients, but that name was partly taken and it would imply that charm-enhanced materials became sufficient for Artifact Creation by default.

Happening. Page 24 Of the Codex details that they can be produced with extra work in a chain of artifacts of rating one less.
Component for Artifact 1 is 1 Resource 1 purchase
Components for Artifact 2 are 2 Resource 2 purchases + 2 resource 1
Components for Artifact 3 are 3 Resource 3 + 3 Resource 2 + 3 resource 1
As each Resource 3 is about 100 Resource 2 purchases, that adds up to:
It may be something like this, but there are lots of ways to do the math:

Artifact 1: Less than 1
Artifact 2: 2-3
Artifact 3: ~331

Keep in mind that this may make it take longer than questing for suitable ingredients yourself.

I'm rather surprised that the Exotic Material for an Artifact 1 would be a Resources 1 purchase; I know that Artifacts can be used as ingredients (and that's how this is best handled in Wyld-Shaping when needed.)
But really, the most important thing here is the 1/100 scale.
1/10th of a Talent for Artifact 2, and 1/1000th of a Talent for Artifact 1?
So, about six Minae and about an Obol and a half (by weight), respectively?
Where did you get that ratio? It's very handy if general.

Part of the aim here, I suppose, is a maximally 'general' answer - questing makes it different by game.

I feel I should point out that "a vial of Celestial Exalt blood" is explicitly called out as a valid exotic component for artifacts with a thematic component related to said Exalt type, and that Infernals and Lunars can regenerate .

Oh.
Well that makes things easier for everyone who has friendly allies, especially if they have access to, for example, a Defiler who can get the 'heal other people because I didn't say you could be hurt' charm.

As for the further point on Essence: Darn, and yet at the same time we can use demon blood of two dots of essence higher. Yet another use for demon-summoning.



Insignificant Ameoba Osmosis
Well, it's referring to things as insignificant, so it's a candidate for a Malfeas charm. It's referring to natural processes, making it a candidate for a Lunar charm. It's referring to scientific names, making it a candidate for a SWLiHN charm. And it's an automatic candidate for a Devil-Tiger or Heretical charm since it qualified under two Yozis.
It's not Abyssal, not Dragon-blooded, probably not Solar, probably not Sidereal.
Unsundered Archipelago Admonishment
I seem to recall that SWLiHN wants to organize all the landmass in the West more to her liking as a giant holding camp for science (kind of like a big game of Portal, and she's GLaDOS)
Again, refers to natural things, so a candidate for a Lunar charm.
Admonishment, so a candidate for a Solar charm.
Not an Abyssal charm, the language isn't strong enough.
Unsundered Archipelago sounds like it might be a Sidereal charm related to Neighborhood Relocation technique - maybe.
I could see this as a Dragon-blooded charm to bring people together for teamwork.

[Drascin]

Don't get discouraged. It's okay if not every-one agrees with you. Meschlum...just happens to be very good at what he does. This does not make your charms useless or less than valuable.

Heh, I know, that was just a joke. Don't worry, I didn't get discouraged. I know that Meschlum can shenanigan his way into doing pretty much anything - hell, if the only ones that can replicate such Charms are Meschlumiam Fae, then I'm more than satisfied at my charms .

But now I'm trying to think of ideas for a Hope-themed SMA for a Sidereal. And trying to restrain myself from making the Sutra a collection of Super Robot show quotes .

[Tavar]

Drascin, keep in mind that most of Meschlum's creations are on the order of, oh, the 1d2 crusader or the like.

Doesn't NEED to be I guess....

And no offense Tavar, but I dislike some of your houserules... Like the one that makes more math by having bonuses counting from items be against the dice cap.

It's generally only 1, maybe 2 dice from any given item, and everything happens before you're in game. And, it's to stop the annoying amount of item stacking you can do.

And, any others?

[Story Time]

[...]on the order of, oh, the 1d2 crusader or the like.

...what's a one-Dee-two crusader? ????

[Lord Raziere]

But now I'm trying to think of ideas for a Hope-themed SMA for a Sidereal. And trying to restrain myself from making the Sutra a collection of Super Robot show quotes .

this of course, now makes me want to make a Warstrider SMA whose entire Sutra consists of super robot show quotes….

and while we are at it, CMA Warstrider and TMA Warstrider styles. those could be the solution to Warstrider combat being sucky.

how would it work? simple the Warstrider TMA would be the real robot style

The Warstrider CMA would be the mix of real and super robot, basically being a gundam style

and the Warstrider SMA would be the pure super robot style.

[Turalisj]

It's generally only 1, maybe 2 dice from any given item, and everything happens before you're in game. And, it's to stop the annoying amount of item stacking you can do.

And, any others?

It's just the stacking one that gets me. Makes excellencies a bit less fun to use and penalizes people for getting artifacts with magical material bonuses.

[Tavar]

...what's a one-Dee-two crusader? ????

A theoretical optimization build from DnD. Using a Crusader, very tiny weapons, and a Cleric spell, they're able to get infinite damage. Note, this is theoretical optimization, seeing how far one can push the system, or what interesting combinations one can make. Not for actual play.