General Exalted Discussion Thread VII: Playground Eternal Essence

[Drascin]

this of course, now makes me want to make a Warstrider SMA whose entire Sutra consists of super robot show quotes….

and while we are at it, CMA Warstrider and TMA Warstrider styles. those could be the solution to Warstrider combat being sucky.

how would it work? simple the Warstrider TMA would be the real robot style

The Warstrider CMA would be the mix of real and super robot, basically being a gundam style

and the Warstrider SMA would be the pure super robot style.

Not quite. See, SMAs are not Sidereal because of their power, but rather because they're based on "ideas" and "concepts" rather than the rather more practical TMAs and CMAs.

So, for example, you wouldn't have "Super Robot SMA", but you could very well do a Gurren Lagann SMA by picking "Evolution" as your concept.

[Turalisj]

Vitrolic Harmony of Perseverance Style

[Story Time]

A theoretical optimization build from DnD. Using a Crusader, very tiny weapons, and a Cleric spell, they're able to get infinite damage. Note, this is theoretical optimization, seeing how far one can push the system, or what interesting combinations one can make. Not for actual play.

Oh, thanks! That's interesting. I've never played a D20 game so I just learned something.

But now I'm trying to think of ideas for a Hope-themed SMA for a Sidereal.

See, SMAs are not Sidereal because of their power, but rather because they're based on "ideas" and "concepts" rather than the rather more practical TMAs and CMAs.

Hope-themed martial art... Please explain! Interest gathers here.

[Tavar]

It's just the stacking one that gets me. Makes excellencies a bit less fun to use and penalizes people for getting artifacts with magical material bonuses.

Well, it's either that or things start to devolve rather quickly, especially at the level's the party would be at.

Plus, is one or 2 dice really inhibiting using an excellency?

[Lord Raziere]

hmmmm….

Emerald Spiral Style

Sutra of the Drill that Pierces the Heavens:
Once there was a young boy…
who had no hope
but then his brother came along and said
"Don't believe in yourself, believe in the me
who believes in you!"
and the boy did.
Elder Sutra:
But then one day his brother died.
Soon however the boy stood up and said
"I believe in the me who believes in myself! Who the hell do you think I am!?"

This style can only be used while in a noble warstrider, colossus warstrider of royal warstrider.

The charms would probably go like this:

A charm that creates a drill on the warstrider

some other charm that eases some of the penalties of warstrider combat

a charm for giga drill breaker

a charm for bringing hope and hot-bloodedness to everyone

and the final charm would probably involve assimilating other warstriders or something.

not too good on mechanics, but I am always good with the concepts.

[Drascin]

Hope-themed martial art... Please explain! Interest gathers here.

Nothing to explain, yet - I'm just at the brainstorming phase. It's just I have a Sidereal character, and Sidereals are always eventually forced to take an SMA or two... and the only canon SMA that actually works is the bondage-sex-themed one, while the character is rather prudish, so it really really doesn't work.

Hence, I need a new one. And the concept that would fit him first would be that - Hope.

[Gensh]

I find the comparison of slavery and death to simple beatings to be the biggest failing of this reasoning. Plus, I find it continually interesting that you ignore the fact that the Primordial most likely to actually be able to fix things, Gaia, the one most connected to Creation itself, is not actually one of those bitter one's you mentioned. In fact, if memory serves me right, she went against them.

Well, it wasn't slavery and death to the primordials. That's tantamount to calling a baker who uses yeast to make bread rise a mass murderer. Primordials don't specifically treat humans badly; they treat all beings of such insignificance that way, even their own first circles. When I scratch my arm, I kill thousands of skin cells with each nail; is there any reason to care? Why then should I care when I'm hungry and need to make food?

And as aetherialDawn already mentioned, Gaia did essentially nothing. Out of love for Luna, she offered to give up her essence to Exaltations, and when that didn't work, gave them the dragonblooded. Then she did nothing, because she couldn't bear to harm her siblings. Then after everything was over, she left to go find the Shining Answer, which the Empyreal Chaos had ordered before declaring they rest and make Creation as a temporary residence.

Edit: the reason no others defected is that they only offered after the war was over. You know, the massive, world shaking war that lasted millenium, and almost certainly saw grudges develop between the Exalts/humans and the primodials, who were killing them in huge lots.

So humans are petty and are too easily blinded by rage caused by casualties in a war they started to consider what would happen to the world if, say, they murdered physics. I'm not sure how this helps your argument.

Also, again, Gaia and C-whatever her name created Creation, yes. That it a great act. But one great act does not counter enslavement, murder, torture, and the like. Especially when it's not done out of need, but because you enjoy it.

Not all of them enjoyed it as described. Szoreny only enjoyed the conflict; he couldn't help it if he accidentally played too hard and they died. All the same, humans were deliberately kept around as livestock. Just because parrots can mimic our language doesn't mean they don't taste like chicken.

This doesn't follow. How does sparing them have such an influence. If I have a mass murderer before me, and instead of killing him give him a life sentence without parole, am I somehow tainted by the crimes he committed?

Were it merely a life sentence, it would be fine, but deliberately cutting pieces of the prisoners' brains out so that they can't ever have a chance of escape goes too far, especially when you don't even do anything to the most wily prisoner.

Where is the information that Gaia at first didn't care, and then decided to. And again, regarding primordials, they don't really change. I mean, in order for Autochthon to think like non-primordials, he had to gut his fetich and make an artifact out of it.

Actually at this point, Gaia still doesn't care. She cared for Luna, and that was pretty much it. Judging by the fact that some of her souls have returned to Creation several times, she doesn't even care about the dragonblooded.

Can you provide any evidence from in universe that the characters actually would know about this? I mean, it's really easy for us to second guess things with our knowledge. For example, there have been several historical figures who have only been saved because their enemies didn't take a shot when they could have. We can easily deride their choices, but we forget what knowledge they really had at the time.

It's unnecessary. It's easy to see that the primordials are all limited in some way. It would appear that since the Sidereals actually worked under them prior to the War that the Exalted host had knowledge of some of the specifics, judging by the initial surprise attack on the Lidless Eye that Sees. By extrapolating, they should be able to have determine what some of Szoreny's themes are. They would have to be cautious, but something of that sort would have been possible. Of course, I don't begrudge the Exalted for imprisoning the primordials, but rather for the transformation into yozis, which directly or indirectly damaged the world.

I mean, Sorenzy presumably wasn't trying to understand the exalted because he was kind: it was so that he could give their weaknesses to the Primordials, so they could win.

Incorrect. If Szoreny ever wins, it's because his opponent was boring; he thrives solely on conflict in the same way that the Ebon Dragon thrives on being a jerk to everyone. Neither will do anything else, even to the point of self-destruction.

heck, using Azebol's argument, I can make an argument that the Neverborn and the Abyssals are right since humans are so bastardly in murdering everyone else for dominance during the Primordial War, that they deserve to get killed.

At one point, I actually stripped away the majority of the details and gave a poll asking which faction leader was most sympathetic to a bunch of people who had never played Exalted before. He Who Holds in Thrall won by a large margin.

this of course, now makes me want to make a Warstrider SMA whose entire Sutra consists of super robot show quotes….

and while we are at it, CMA Warstrider and TMA Warstrider styles. those could be the solution to Warstrider combat being sucky.

Creating additional content for warstriders is fine but should not be the sole reason they're playable. Personally, I can understand why they're so useless - an Exalt in a giant robot is kind of comparable to all those action figures of, say, Superman on a motorcycle. Sure, it looks really awesome, but when you think of it, they're actually crippling themselves. The only way to make warstriders good is to make it where not being in a warstrider is dumb. That's the route I took with my Malfeas Charms, but those are Charm-granted benefits, so it would make sense for having it to be strictly better than not having it.

A final note for Tavar:
I'm not saying that the primordials aren't bad; I'm saying that their offenses are excusable because they are literally incapable of understanding. A world dominated by primordials is what I would consider a necessary evil. Or at least it would be had Malfeas, Cecelyne, and Swillin not opened their Charmsets. By doing so, they're literally opening their minds to new ideas. Compare this to the Incarna who instead shut themselves away from the world, the Neverborn who don't listen to anyone because they won't stop singing Crawling, or the Exalts, who manage to be more narcissistic than even yozis whose themes incorporate that.

My constant droning about the Demon City Beautification Committee is about how a concerned group of Infernals could reasonably establish a utopia. Doing so under a human government isn't possible because each individual human is capable of corruption; for a yozi to be corrupted would require the corruption of a plurality of the GSPs. Of course, one could say the same about any democratic form of government, but the difference is that the yozis are themselves alive and capable of policing not only themselves but each other.

[Turalisj]

Well, it's either that or things start to devolve rather quickly, especially at the level's the party would be at.

Plus, is one or 2 dice really inhibiting using an excellency?

I was under the impression the bonus from hearthstone bracers counted as sux. In regards to dodge at least.

[Tavar]

Turalisj, show me the magical material bonus that gives the +3 dice to dodge, and you'd be right.

Gensh, I think you're missing the point of having a Yozi as a governing body: the government needs to be able to see the people it rules as, well, people, that actually matter. No Primordial really is able to do this except Autochthon, and that took massive amounts of effort on his part, and he wanted to do so. The other primordials? They don't. Even Exalts don't factor into their worldview, at least in terms of the Exalts having desires of their own.

But, I'm stopping this, as I doubt either of us is really going to convince the other, at least not on this forum.

[Lord Raziere]

At one point, I actually stripped away the majority of the details and gave a poll asking which faction leader was most sympathetic to a bunch of people who had never played Exalted before. He Who Holds in Thrall won by a large margin.



Creating additional content for warstriders is fine but should not be the sole reason they're playable. Personally, I can understand why they're so useless - an Exalt in a giant robot is kind of comparable to all those action figures of, say, Superman on a motorcycle. Sure, it looks really awesome, but when you think of it, they're actually crippling themselves. The only way to make warstriders good is to make it where not being in a warstrider is dumb. That's the route I took with my Malfeas Charms, but those are Charm-granted benefits, so it would make sense for having it to be strictly better than not having it.

1. come to think about it….look at it from almost any point of view.
-The Yozis are sympathetic because they created everything but then got deposed because the Sun wanted to play a bunch of games, then got imprisoned and injured because….we don't know exactly that act seemd a little pointless….
-The Neverborn are sympathetic because they got killed, but can't actually die and are now in eternal torment because of what the humans did and the only way to move on for them is to destroy what they consider their greatest masterpiece.
-Autocthon is sympathetic because he got bullied by the rest of the Primordials for having robo-cancer
-The Raksha are sympathetic because they just want to have fun
-The Sidereals are sympathetic because they are the ones still keeping the world running despite the hard choice they had to make
- The Dragon-Blooded are sympathetic because they are the most down-to-earth Exalt and have actual society
- The Lunars…….I don't know
- The Solars……because……because….screw it I don't know
- The Dragon Kings and Jadeborn: obviously because they are the fallen races and such….mostly because of the Solars
-Sol! uh……Sol!…..uh….because he…..gave up his life for a single mortal? or something?
- Luna!…..Luna!….come to think of it I can't think of anything sympathtic except maybe for her love for Gaia?
- the Maidens because they oversee the Loom of Fate? and every time they predict the future they are bound to bring it about?

….wow, weird, the three villains have a stronger case for sympathy than the heroes….

2. look I just want a way for warstriders to be playable, I don't care how. martial arts seem to be a good, plausible way.

[Yuki Akuma]

The Primordials weren't overthrown because the Unconquered Sun wanted to play the GoD. They were overthrown because they were horrific monsters who routinely destroyed countless billions of lives due to boredom or petty tantrums.

[Rikandur Azebol]

EDIT: Yuki Akuma, and who said that ? Winners ? I find words of those who benefitted from the owerthrow of Primodials a rather unconvincing argument.

Raksha are more "real" than humans.

Saying so, Xefas and Meschlum I evoke thee uncompromisable names !
I need to power up my Raksha Noble to Ishavara status quickly and preferably in a way that ST can't refuse for it will look legal. To Malfeas with consequences:

1) My initial plan is to acquire cooperation from Makarios and then proceed to make stuff in dreamscapes wich Makarios will make "real" by transporting it out of dreams.

2) Give Gods of Yu-Shan Siddies on the starmetal plate for audience with Nysela.

3) Reforge myself in Daystar's forge, like Prince Lashee did.

4) Start the "Future will be better" arc by stating to all who listens: Revivify Neverborn into Primodials of Virtues. Close Incarnae in Jade Pleasure Dome and put a sign "Do not disturb." Make Daystar Nysela's. Create something even more fun for Raksha of Creation than Creation ... so those who want can leave and play there. Create God of Creation who will rule fairly, and WILL NOT PLAY THE XBOX ! Repair Loom of Fate and clone pattern spiders to enough numbers. Punish Sids by forcing them to repair damage they did to the Creation. Starting with Mask. And 10,000 years of public works and virtuous behavior as a penalty. Irrefusable.



Saying so, I fully support the Infernal Faction that wants to cure Yozis of the madness caused by Solars. But instead of thinking green I think rainbow.

[Gensh]

-The Yozis are sympathetic because they created everything but then got deposed because the Sun wanted to play a bunch of games, then got imprisoned and injured because….we don't know exactly that act seemd a little pointless….

Hence the prominent pro-yozi crowd.

-The Neverborn are sympathetic because they got killed, but can't actually die and are now in eternal torment because of what the humans did and the only way to move on for them is to destroy what they consider their greatest masterpiece.

Normally nihilism isn't that popular a philosophy. Speaking with those who voted for him, the consensus I got is that since nothing bad happened when Mardukth ruled, he knows what's best for everyone.

-Autocthon is sympathetic because he got bullied by the rest of the Primordials for having robo-cancer

Sympathy for Autochthon is balanced between how much you pity him for the bullying and the cancer and how much you hate Victor Frankenstein.

-The Raksha are sympathetic because they just want to have fun

That doesn't really apply so much when their fun comes at the expense of literally everything else. At the same time, though, I wouldn't rag on anyone who thinks raksha are the most sympathetic because technically, the primordials messed up the Wyld. Since the Wyld is infinite, however, that point is logically moot; only the inability of the raksha to use logic saves it.

-The Sidereals are sympathetic because they are the ones still keeping the world running despite the hard choice they had to make

The Sids really do need a vacation, but Kejak's entirely cutthroat leadership and the Age of Sorrows that resulted prevents much sympathy from gathering. Compare the Empyreal Chaos' cutthroat leadership which was entirely just and fair (for the primordials).

- The Dragon-Blooded are sympathetic because they are the most down-to-earth Exalt and have actual society

It's kind of funny dealing with the dragonblooded because they're both the setting's designated mooks but also the only ones really doing anything unselfish. On large, they're terrible people because they're born into privilege and don't care for the common people, but they also have the greatest number of actual good guys in their number.

- The Lunars…….I don't know

Yeah, they're not really sympathetic at all due to their dependent relationship with the Solars. It's hard to describe them in a way that's entirely separate from a Solar unless they're serving under one of the crazy elders or the Thousand Stream Rivers project, which is just as controversial as my Demon City Beautification Committee.

- The Solars……because……because….screw it I don't know

They did establish a golden age. It's just that they annihilated or maimed literally every other sentient race in the process of doing so. Then they went crazy and turned on their own people.

- The Dragon Kings and Jadeborn: obviously because they are the fallen races and such….mostly because of the Solars

Yep. Also, the poor jadeborn still don't know that Autochthon doesn't care a lick about them.

-Sol! uh……Sol!…..uh….because he…..gave up his life for a single mortal? or something?

He offered to be a hostage in exchange for a single mortal life. After the War was over, however, he turned the world over to the Solars and became a NEET, so sympathies for him are based wholly on what you think about the Games.

- Luna!…..Luna!….come to think of it I can't think of anything sympathtic except maybe for her love for Gaia?

Luna and her minions are really the only ones actively protecting Creation.

- the Maidens because they oversee the Loom of Fate? and every time they predict the future they are bound to bring it about?

That's why they would be sympathetic, but it's much the same as with Sol - they could just stop looking at Samsara and creating self-fulfilling prophecies.

2. look I just want a way for warstriders to be playable, I don't care how. martial arts seem to be a good, plausible way.

Easy: just remove the penalties.

The Primordials weren't overthrown because the Unconquered Sun wanted to play the GoD. They were overthrown because they were horrific monsters who routinely destroyed countless billions of lives due to boredom or petty tantrums.

While they were in fact horrific monsters who routinely destroyed countless billions of lives due to boredom or petty tantrums, they were actually overthrown specifically because Sol wanted to play the Games and Autochthon was too much of a wuss to stand up for himself. That's not why the Exalted fought, but it was the reason why they were created in the first place.

[Drascin]

Sympathy for Autochthon is balanced between how much you pity him for the bullying and the cancer and how much you hate Victor Frankenstein.

What.

No, seriously, what.

What Frankenstein did, refuse to acknowledge his creation and act like a **** to it despite it being sentient and intelligent, is textbook what the Yozis do. What they did as Primordials. They are Frankenstein to the highest degree. You don't get to damn Frankenstein with one hand and praise the Primordials with the other, because they are Frankenstein to the power of over nine thousand.

...argh. I'm stupid. Why did I even get into this conversation. Yeah, out .

[Yuki Akuma]

While they were in fact horrific monsters who routinely destroyed countless billions of lives due to boredom or petty tantrums, they were actually overthrown specifically because Sol wanted to play the Games and Autochthon was too much of a wuss to stand up for himself. That's not why the Exalted fought, but it was the reason why they were created in the first place.

I'd really like a citation for this. Because this isn't what I remember reading at all.

[Lord Raziere]

I should really learn to keep my mouth shut and thus stop these discussions from occurring, cause I seem to have a talent for sparking discussions like this….

[aetherialDawn]

If you don't want to read the ongoing Primordial/Yozi discussion, this spoiler isn't for you, and you can just skip it.

Spoiler

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I believe the following: Not all Yozis are bad.
Evidence: Szoreny is kind of bitter and shattered, but he still understands and even, in a sense, loves those he reflects, he can't help it. His love takes the form of 'let's have fun opposing each other and becoming more awesome together!'
But again, perhaps the most important thing about Szoreny is that he isn't your enemy, he's your rival. The Ebon Dragon is your enemy and even your nemesis, but Szoreny doesn't even mind losing to you, and is sad when you are gone. It's arguable that he does it for selfish reasons because it increases his power, but then, Gaia approving of life is selfish, is it not? What a Primordial/Yozi DOES, and what it IS, is inseparable.

I believe the following: Not all Primordials were good. (No comment on whether any were good, but there are at least bad ones.)
Evidence: The Dragon's Shadow. That was easy.
Evidence 2: The Empyreal Chaos imposed himself on the other Primordials, forcing them to obey him as king by making them accept a monarchy.
In fact, that sounds like a precursor to Yozi-dom: The Primordials were no longer allowed to be what they were before, they had to confine themselves for someone else's desires. This is more open to interpretation, but we still have The Dragon's Shadow.

I believe the following: At least one Primordial had the known capacity to be good.
Evidence: Szoreny, who if challenged to 'I can be nicer than you' would probably have to accept and try to be as nice as he could.

From these three things, I can say that while the war against the Primordials certainly had good reasons to happen, turning all Primordials into Yozis had good reasons not to happen.
Again, as pointed out earlier (I had not realized) the Exalted did know quite a bit about the Primordials, enough to make the right moves in the first moments of the war. They knew that SWLiHN, if bound into her new Hierarchy, would not be able to bring herself to rebel - they might consider her too much a risk, very well. (She can be hypocritical now - that's a running theme among the Yozis, the introduction of hypocrisy. Cecelyne is hypocritical law... SWLiHN is hypocritical hierarchy... Adorjan is hypocritical peace, from other people's points of view, but mostly strange... Malfeas is hypocritical in considering others insignificant, for that matter.)

Szoreny, however, would be very safe, and understands others easily. Heck, he can even teach Martial Arts, even though he can't practice it personally, which is something most Yozis don't really get at all.

Would a Hope-themed SMA become more defensively powerful as you began to lose, and more offensively powerful as you began to win?

[Tavar]

What.

No, seriously, what.

What Frankenstein did, refuse to acknowledge his creation and act like a **** to it despite it being sentient and intelligent, is textbook what the Yozis do. What they did as Primordials. They are Frankenstein to the highest degree. You don't get to damn Frankenstein with one hand and praise the Primordials with the other, because they are Frankenstein to the power of over nine thousand.

In fact, Autochthon is almost the antithesis of Frankenstein. He created something, and when he realized what he did, he tried to help them. Hell, he hurt himself in order to be able to understand what these things were.

[aetherialDawn]

In fact, Autochthon is almost the antithesis of Frankenstein. He created something, and when he realized what he did, he tried to help them. Hell, he hurt himself in order to be able to understand what these things were.

You know, I think this is the largest reason I just can't hate Autochthon. I think that he was very spiteful towards the other Primordials...

But it's clear that what he cares for, he really does care for. There's no insanity or hypocrisy there, just different and valid values (not commenting on whether other Primordials had valid values; Autochthon did.) The fact that he cared for mortals instead of Primordials is not really all that different. Heck, if every Primordial felt that way, would there ever have even been a problem? Or would it have always been a strange, Infernal-style utopia from the start, from the top (Games of Divinity) to the bottom (valued and beloved children)?
It seems like it was just that conflict between Mortals and Autochthon vs. Primordials, with Gaia torn between.

[Turalisj]

Hate me for this if you want, but I think if you give a moral to Exalted, I would have to put it at: Taking the short way is bad, and will eventually corrupt and destroy you.

[Gensh]

What.

No, seriously, what.

What Frankenstein did, refuse to acknowledge his creation and act like a **** to it despite it being sentient and intelligent, is textbook what the Yozis do. What they did as Primordials. They are Frankenstein to the highest degree. You don't get to damn Frankenstein with one hand and praise the Primordials with the other, because they are Frankenstein to the power of over nine thousand.

...argh. I'm stupid. Why did I even get into this conversation. Yeah, out .

Frankenstein created life to see if he could create life. He did so. Then he abandoned it because it frightened him. When it returned to him of its own accord asking for a companion, he refused its demands. When it threatened him with the lives of his loved ones, he let them die because he was vain enough to think his creation was actually threatening him.

Autochthon created life to see if he could create life. He did so. Then he abandoned it because something shiny caught his eye. When it returned to him of its own accord asking for a companion, he actually made some. When the Sol demanded him to horribly maim those companions - an order he could actually ignore - he did so. It's ambiguous whether he begrudged the Solars for breaking something he had made as the Empyreal Chaos had or because he cared about them as living beings.

The other primordials made life, directly or indirectly, to maintain their playhouse and to amuse them. Some of them thought watching them die was amusing. Some of them didn't even know they existed and killed them by accident (I'm looking at you, Isidoros). In either case, that which was created was not abandoned, but merely used for the purpose it had been made. While that purpose is disagreeable to we created things, the primordials can't really be faulted for doing exactly what they said they would, not even Autochthon.

To be honest, in the traditional question as to whether Frankenstein or his creation is the monster, I insist that they both are because neither sought a peaceful way out. Likewise, I do not deny that the yozis were and still are monsters but also insist that so were the Exalted; so was Autochthon; so was Gaia. It irks me to see that they're treated as the designated heroes when they're just as guilty.

On that note, I do not praise the yozis for what they did, merely that they cannot be faulted for doing, again, exactly what they said they would, when they literally cannot understand how doing so is bad. What I praise Malfeas, Cecelyne, and Swillin for is opening their minds to other perspectives, something that none of the other major players in the setting have done. They opened their Charmsets for the purpose of using their hated enemies to grow stronger, but in doing so, they have subjected themselves to their Chosen's opinions, the opinions of humans. Infernals can't change a yozis's themes, but they can alter percentages and change how those themes manifest. Malfeas doesn't have to be all rage, all the time, who listens to no one; he can just as easily be a just but strict king who will at least begrudgingly lend his ears to trusted advisers.

I'd really like a citation for this. Because this isn't what I remember reading at all.

"With the allegiance of Autochthon, the complicity of Gaia and the aid of the Exalted, the gods set out to overthrow the Primordials and take the Games of Divinity for themselves." - Roll of Glorious Divinity, p.9

The beginning of the paragraph in question debatably paints Sol in a more heroic light, but I seem to remember his initial declaration to the rest of the gods as being specifically about the Games. I just can't remember where I read it.

In fact, Autochthon is almost the antithesis of Frankenstein. He created something, and when he realized what he did, he tried to help them. Hell, he hurt himself in order to be able to understand what these things were.

I still don't know what you're talking about as far as Autochthon being self-sacrificing. If you're talking about the Eye of Autochthon, we're deliberately never told what it is. As for your earlier comment about his fetich soul, that's not what it is. His fetich soul as things stand is that castle thing. The Eye might be a control key or something - a part of it - but that's not information that we have right now.

[aetherialDawn]

I still don't know what you're talking about as far as Autochthon being self-sacrificing. If you're talking about the Eye of Autochthon, we're deliberately never told what it is. As for your earlier comment about his fetich soul, that's not what it is. His fetich soul as things stand is that castle thing. The Eye might be a control key or something - a part of it - but that's not information that we have right now.

Autochthon's Fetich was gutted in order to shackle his other third circle souls together so that he could understand and aid the Autochthonian mortals... Somehow.
It's in the MoEP: Alchemicals, I believe, and I've never fully understood it, but it is there.

[Drascin]

Autochthon's Fetich was gutted in order to shackle his other third circle souls together so that he could understand and aid the Autochthonian mortals... Somehow.
It's in the MoEP: Alchemicals, I believe, and I've never fully understood it, but it is there.

Not very hard to understand - what is now the Core was Auto's Fetich soul before. He gutted and reformatted his own heart because it was not up to allowing him to do what he wanted to do, so he made open-heart surgery on himself until it did.

[Yuki Akuma]

"With the allegiance of Autochthon, the complicity of Gaia and the aid of the Exalted, the gods set out to overthrow the Primordials and take the Games of Divinity for themselves." - Roll of Glorious Divinity, p.9

The beginning of the paragraph in question debatably paints Sol in a more heroic light, but I seem to remember his initial declaration to the rest of the gods as being specifically about the Games. I just can't remember where I read it.

So you take one quote out of context to prove your whole biased point of view? Ah, I see.

Yep, stepping out of this conversation too.

[Lord Raziere]

now if only we could make Autocthon give himself open heart surgery to have better foresight that would be great….

[Volthawk]

now if only we could make Autocthon give himself open heart surgery to have better foresight that would be great….

Well, if you manage to wake him up proper, perhaps...

[Drascin]

now if only we could make Autocthon give himself open heart surgery to have better foresight that would be great….

Rule 1 of White Wolf games: Everyone is a dumbass, a ****, or both. Those who are neither die the first opportunity the writers get .

[Xefas]

QUICK!
SOMEONE LIGHT THE BUNNY SIGNAL!

Well,

Spoiler

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Unique Caste: The Dauphiness
Upon learning the Tempest of Inward Focus charm Saretha, the Eye of Strife, created the Dauphiness Caste. Its caste abilities are Archery, Dodge, Performance, Presence, and Socialize. The anima banner it produces is a demure pink that ascends to a brilliant red hue at the edges. Its caste mark is a wickedly thorned silver crown.

The anima power of the Dauphiness allows her to offer others the privilege of protecting her. As a reflexive action when she takes health levels of damage, she may spend 5 motes of Essence and extend this invitation to (Essence) living beings within (Essence x 10) yards. Each being that accepts takes one level of damage that would've been dealt to the Dauphiness, starting with bashing and working up. This cannot, however, reduce the damage she takes below 1 level. If there are not enough health levels of damage to go around to all the protectors, their players may argue over who is allowed to suffer for the Dauphiness.

This power may be activated at will and at no cost once the Dauphiness' anima has flared to the 11+ mote level.

The Damsel's Urge (The Urge to be in Distress)

The Damsel's Urge imparts a need to be the center of attention, and to seek such attentions in a very specific way. The damsel puts herself in real, mortal danger that she cannot contend with by herself, forcing others to fight for her. If there are no satisfactory villains to threaten her, she creates those too - manufacturing a whirlwind of artificially forged mayhem about herself. From the eye of the storm, she controls all sides, never safe, but always in the spotlight.

High compassion damsels typically use physical attractiveness and promises of love and flesh to manipulate others into attacking and defending her. Conviction focused damsels utilize political, religious, and ethical beliefs to create hatred and strife. Temperate damsels are more likely to wield laws, obligations, and oaths as their instrument of hate-mongering. Valorous damsels are rare, and tend towards a more direct approach, personally bullying others through threats and insults to achieve their goals.

Examples:
*Force the Unconquered Sun to fall in love with me, and then allow myself to be captured by the Mask of Winters, provoking him to get off his ass to save me.
*Exploit the instability of the Realm to create a violent anti-Immaculate movement within the patrons of the Great Houses, then impersonate an Immaculate Saint and let House Mnemon publicly kidnap me.
*Convince the Endless Desert to revoke any protection the Ebon Dragon has under her laws by virtue of his being the weakest of the Yozi, and thus undeserving. Then start teaching Crane Style to some Green Sun Princes.
*Figure out how to fix the shattered astrological Mask. Then wait for the Calibration feast, and reveal this fact in order to inundate heaven with old paranoia and hostility. All eyes on me, of course.

The Torment of the Instigating Princess

A damsel that accumulates 10 points of Limit is subject to the Torment of the Instigating Princess. For the duration of the scene, she ceases to comprehend her own self-preservation, duplicating the effect of a Foolhardy Contempt limit break, but without the ability to mitigate it to a partial effect.

In addition, anyone in the scene with an intimacy towards the damsel and an MDV of less than (damsel's Essence + primary virtue) is afflicted by a similar loss of reason. Those with a negative intimacy are struck by an effect identical to an unrestrained Berserk Anger limit break, with the damsel as their first target. Those with a positive intimacy are struck by an effect identical to an unrestrained Red Rage of Compassion limit break, but are incapable of interpreting any actions taken towards the damsel as anything other than vicious and undue threats on her life.

Although the damsel may not contain her own madness, bystanders may spend (damsel's Essence) willpower to resist the unnatural mental influence.

Precipitous Fiat: Kingdom Sundering Betrayal Provocation

It is the nature of the Instigating Princess to pit all things against one another in an eternal maelstrom of meaningless mistrust and violence. This includes the most tragic of all, friends against friends, families broken, and lovers at one another's throats. Denying this causes discomfort for the damsel, but reveling in it provides relief.

To engage in this fiat, the Infernal must cause two people with positive intimacies towards one another to become bitter enemies. However, to extract true spiritual sustenance from the act, the Infernal must achieve this effect without utilizing unnatural mental influence or activating charms that directly effect either victim. She must take the time to gradually erode their relationship with perfectly natural and sensible means, revealing how pathetically fragile it was all along.

Success allows the Infernal to roll dice equal to their Compassion, and reduce their Limit by 1 for each success.

The Imperfection of the Eye of Strife

The Eye of Strife can defend herself when she needs to, but she loathes doing so. She has servants, puppets, and patsies for that sort of thing. When she is alone, and thus with no entourage to throw their lives away for her, her defensive charms function normally. If she is accompanied by subordinates, friends, or anyone who would actively protect her for whatever purpose, such charms cost an additional 3 motes to use.

[Lix Lorn]

...this signal was DEFINITELY worth the hundreds of talents it cost to make.

[Gensh]

Autochthon's Fetich was gutted in order to shackle his other third circle souls together so that he could understand and aid the Autochthonian mortals... Somehow.
It's in the MoEP: Alchemicals, I believe, and I've never fully understood it, but it is there.

I know he got rid of his second circle souls, but I thought that was more because he didn't want to trust his third circles with entire armies, lest they kill him while trying to kill each other.

So you take one quote out of context to prove your whole biased point of view? Ah, I see.

Yep, stepping out of this conversation too.

Except I'm not. In stating that Sol was painted in a more heroic light at the beginning of the paragraph, I was indicating that I might be incorrect in my specific accusation of him. Regardless of whether the king of the gods personally wanted so or not, the gods as a whole rebelled for the sole purpose of getting out of their appointed duties and playing the Games.