General Exalted Discussion Thread VII: Playground Eternal Essence

[Lord Raziere]

oh.

hmm…..that IS a problem, what light touches can we make? any adjustments?

no wait, what is the main problem? can you specifically tell me what makes them unplayable? let me take a wild guess: the "potentially develop a permanent mutation every time you shapeshift" thing.

[Dragnar]

That's the main problem, yes. Casteless lunars might as well be ticking timebombs, with the explosion not only likely to kill the rest of the circle, but literally makes the character unplayable.

[Lord Raziere]

maybe, just get rid of that outside the Wyld? y'know, able to shapeshift without repercussions when not in the Wyld, but as soon as they go in…..

I mean really, the Casteless Lunars weren't meant to be played in the Wyld anyways, so what difference would it make?

[Tavar]

Well, there's also the issue that they favor less attributes(maybe even abilities, but I'm not sure about that).

Plus, right now, their isn't a reason not to join the Silver pact. The Pact doesn't have a real agenda or monolithic part line. It's basically a glorified social networking club.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Yeah, Exalted character creation sucks for all of the Lost Egg-style characters. For the enormous benefit of losing all of your infrastructure (the most important thing in Exalted), you gain, uh, negative everything I guess?

Ronin have it the worst creation-wise and Casteless have enormously crappy rules added on top of their natural suckitude.

[golentan]

Pretty much. I don't think there's insufficient incentive to join the silver pact, since as with all exalt types with variable backgrounds unaffiliated exalts get told to go die in a fire somewhere. And it's even worse for the celestials: DBs might breed up some more cooperative heirs and so get left alone, but rogue celestials? Your best bet is to kill them until their reincarnation joins your faction.

Lunars get massive power boost and the benefits of a network of celestials to call on by joining the silver pact. And they gain elder exalted enemies and the danger of becoming a chimera if they don't. Not that being a chimera isn't awesome, but it doesn't typically make for a good non-solo game...

[Xefas]

Not that being a chimera isn't awesome, but it doesn't typically make for a good non-solo game...

What if you had a game with a Chimera, an Apocalypse Infernal, a Dragonblooded that has merged with a Demesne and become a portable Manse MI, a Sidereal with Obsidian Shards of Infinity that has been possessed using the Ride charm by all five Maidens Unity of the Closed Fist'd together while gazing at Samsara, and a Neverborn.

It could even be a Halloween game. Scratches, Crunch, Hal, and Cassandra could all sit inside Weepy Dan and tell ghost stories.

[golentan]

What an Idea!

[Xefas]

Crunch: "-...and the Slayer punched it, and punched it, but the calculus only mocked him. And that's when he finally understood...THERE WAS A PROBLEM THAT COULD NOT BE SOLVED WITH PUNCHING!"

Scratches howls in horror. And probably lust. Hal and Cassandra stare unamused. Dan disgorges fetid bile made of the broken dreams of all the worlds that would never come to be, due to his untimely passing.

Hal: "I've got one. I call it, the Dread Cerulean Screen of Inexorable Doom."

Cassandra: "I know how this one ends, too. And that 743 days from now, I'll purchase a puppy, and it will die of kidney cancer exactly 304 days after that. I will be sad. I know exactly how sad I'll be, but the limitations of your minds prevent me from communicating the objective quantification of sadness."

There is a moment of silence. In consolation, Dan turns his skin into the faces of all men who have died for a cause that they vehemently believed it, but did not actually mean anything.

Scratches does a handstand and turns her forearm into a gourd.

[Mr.Bookworm]

What if you had a game with a Chimera, an Apocalypse Infernal, a Dragonblooded that has merged with a Demesne and become a portable Manse MI, a Sidereal with Obsidian Shards of Infinity that has been possessed using the Ride charm by all five Maidens Unity of the Closed Fist'd together while gazing at Samsara, and a Neverborn.

It could even be a Halloween game. Scratches, Crunch, Hal, and Cassandra could all sit inside Weepy Dan and tell ghost stories.

Goddammit Xefas stop making up all of these awesome ideas and just run a damn game already.

Also, something I have been working on for general perusal (and PEACHing, so I guess I'll stick this in the Homebrew forum in a bit):

Spoiler

Show

Not quite done with the Mask of Winters write-up, but I wanted to go ahead and put this out there.

General Deathlord Rules

• If slain, a Deathlord instantly disappears in a warping explosion of Essence that seems to draw the Deathlord into it. Some time later (usually the span of a year, but sometimes less, sometimes more), the Deathlord will arise again at the Mouth of the Void, standing before the unforgiving Neverborn. To permanently slay a Deathlord is a
• Deathlord Abilities and Attributes have a cap of (Essence).
• Deathlord motepools are calculated as (Essence x 15)+(Willpower x 3)+(Virtues added together). All motes in their pools count as if they were peripheral; the Deathlords may never mask themselves if they wish to unleash their power. The Deathlord anima banner is the simple black void of Oblivion, at totemic levels seeming to draw in those in the area like a hungry sucking maw. Treat this as if it had the same effects as the Abyssal anima banner.
• Deathlords suffer from Resonance, although they rarely risk the wrath of the Neverborn.
• They possess health levels equal to (Essence x 5). All are -0. They may not expand their health through any sort of Charm.
• They possess unique panoply Charms, up to (Essence/2). These are the powers instilled in them by the Neverborn with which they are supposed to conquer Creation. All of them also possess the Avatar of the Void power, which does not count towards this cap.
• The Deathlords are masters of Necromancy, currently unparallelled in all of existence. All of them are automatically initiated into the Void circle of Necromancy, and all know many spells of each level (usually knowing almost all of the spells presented in the Black Treatise). Sorcery, however, is completely beyond their grasp. All of their spells cost 1wp more to cast when outside of the confines of an Underworld-tainted area.
• The Deathlords may learn martial arts. However, due to their connection to the Void, they are greatly limited in what they may learn. They may only learn styles which possess a thematic connection to the Underworld or Oblivion (Dark Messiah, Hungry Ghost, and Laughing Wounds are all examples), up to the Celestial level.
• Deathlords may learn Abyssal Charms as if their Essence were 2, no matter their actual Essence. They require tutoring by a deathknight to learn any new Charms. They may not learn Excellencies or gain Ox-Bodies.
• Any Charm the Deathlord has that does not already possess it gains the Spectral keyword. This includes their unique Panoply Charms, Arcanoi, Martial Arts Charms, and any others they may possess.
• The Deathlords are the most powerful ghosts in existence. As such, they have mastered all of the common Arcanoi they can, and may possess more esoteric Arts. In addition, they possess Command the Dead and Eyes of Oblivion (MoEP: Abyssals, pg. 50).
• The Deathlords may activate reflexive Charms freely without a Charm activation, as a Terrestrial.
• The Deathlords may not create Combos.

The Mask of Winters, Conqueror of Thorns
Motivation: ? (Possible Motivations include "Prove his superiority among the Deathlords", "Achieve total dominance in the East")
Attributes: Strength 10, Dexterity 9, Stamina 10; Charisma 5, Manipulation 7, Appearance 4; Perception 5, Intelligence 6, Wits 7
Virtues: Compassion 1, Conviction 5, Temperance 4, Valor 5
Abilities: Archery 7, Athletics 5, Awareness 5, Craft (Moliation) 5, Craft (Pandemonium) 5, Dodge 8, Integrity 5 (Torture Exalted +1), Investigation 5, Lore 10 (Secrets of the Dead +3) Linguistics (All) 6, Martial Arts 6, Melee 7 (Sword +2), Occult 5 (Oblivion +1), Performance 4, Presence 6 (Intimidation +2), Ride 5 (Undead +1), Resistance 5, Stealth 4, Socialize 5, Thrown 6, War 8 (Armies of the Dead +2)
Backgrounds: As one of the Deathlords, the Mask possesses almost unimaginable resources, including armies of the undead, multiple Abyssals at his command, vast manufacturing capabilities, and so on. It may be generally assumed that he possesses any Background he could reasonably possess at a 5 dot or even N/A level.
Join Battle: 10
Attacks
Punch: Speed 5, Accuracy 16, Damage 10B, Defense 9, Rate 3
Kick: Speed 5, Accuracy 15, Damage 13B, Defense 7, Rate 2
Clinch: Speed 6, Accuracy 15, Damage 10B, Defense –, Rate 1
Soulsteel Short Powerbow: Speed 6, Accuracy 18, Damage 12L, Range 250, Rate 2
Frigid Razor (Soulsteel Grand Daiklave): Speed 5, Accuracy 20, Damage 22L/4, Defense 14, Rate 3
Dodge DV: 13
Soak: 19L/26B (Grieving Shelter, soulsteel articulated plate, 14L/16B, -2 mobility penalty)
Hardness: 10L/10B
Health Levels: -0 (x50)
Willpower: 10
Essence: 10 (175 motes, 20 committed)
Notes: The Mask of Winters is almost never alone, surrounded by his army. He may usually be found within Juggernaut. In addition to
The Mask of Winters: The eponymous Deathlord is always seen in this double-faced mask. One side is enchantingly beautiful, and the players of those who look upon it must make a successful Temperance roll at difficulty 3, lest their characters be entranced by the visage and gain an Intimacy of Love towards the Mask of Winters. They will follow the Mask of Winters’ suggestions or take actions to please him of their own initiative. The other face is one of such horror that the players of those who look upon it must make a successful Valor check, difficulty 3, or their characters flee the area for one scene. Once a subject has rolled once, he is immune to both sides of the Mask for the rest of the scene. All Exalted or any being with an Essence of 8 or greater may spend a Willpower to automatically resist this effect and gain immunity to the Mask for a day.

Charms

Abyssal Charms: All Archery, Dodge, Lore, Melee, and War Charms from the MoEP: Abyssals for which he meets the prerequisites. In addition, he knows Undying Stagnation Defense, Eternal Enmity Approach, Systematic Demolition Exercise, Spirit-Sensing Meditation, Corpus-Rending Blow, Through Dead Eyes, and any others the Storyteller feels are appropriate.

Arcanoi: All presented in the RoGD2 that he meets the prerequisites for plus Command the Dead and Eyes of Oblivion.

Martial Arts: The Mask knows up the Form Charm of Dark Messiah style.

Necromancy Spells: All Shadowlands and Labyrinth Circle spells from the Black Treatise. In addition, the Mask knows Black Investiture, Dimming of the Light, Call the Black Sun, Abyssal Aegis, Blackstorm Coffle, Blood from the Slaughter, Blood Monsoon, Forsaken Life Engine, Grandmother Void, Inauspicious Citadel, Incomparable Destruction Engine, Lord of the Dead, Mouth of the Void, Oblivion's Avatar, Obsidian Countermagic, Pyre-Flame Guardian, Risen and Screaming, Summon Hekatonkhire, Void Cocoon Warrior, and any others the Storyteller deems appropriate.

Avatar of the Void: As a direct connection to the Neverborn, the Deathlords may draw upon their power to enhance their actions. They may enhance any action that follow the themes inherent of the Neverborn, of suffering, death, imprisonment, and any others the ST feels are appropriate (I might write this fully later). Deathlords have a dice cap of (Essence+highest Virtue) for this Charm.

This Charm acts as if it were a combined First (Yozi) Excellency and Second (Yozi) Excellency, following the themes outlined above. The Deathlord may freely interchange dice and successes added, as long as they do not go above the cap.

In addition, for every significant foe the Deathlord slays, the cost of this Charm is reduced by one mote. This reduction resets at dawn. A significant threat is generally any Celestial Exalted, a band of Terrestrial Exalted, a major god, an army of mortals, and so on.

Bloody Steps of the Warlord:

Horn of the Nightmare Army:

Devouring Maw of the Void:

Library of Tortured Souls:

[Xefas]

Goddammit Xefas stop making up all of these awesome ideas and just run a damn game already.

I'm actually kinda working on it. The internet just keeps churning out more media I want to see and it distracts me.

I don't have any particular objection to your Deathlord rules, accept this-

To permanently slay a Deathlord is a

...is a what? What is it?!

Also, I'm wondering if you're giving them Abyssal Charms just as a shorthand so you don't have to write out a bunch of tricks they can do, or if, thematically speaking, you think Deathlords should have Abyssal Charms? I don't care too much either way, but I'm interested in your opinion.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I don't have any particular objection to your Deathlord rules, accept this-

...is a what? What is it?!

Whoooops. First thing I'll fix in the morning (until then, wait in very slight anticipation if you remember that it bothers you).

Also, I'm wondering if you're giving them Abyssal Charms just as a shorthand so you don't have to write out a bunch of tricks they can do, or if, thematically speaking, you think Deathlords should have Abyssal Charms? I don't care too much either way, but I'm interested in your opinion.

Little of Column A, a little of Column B. At first, I was going to completely remove them, because I was all "Trumped-up ghosts should not get Solar-tier Charms, nuh-uh!"

Then I realized what a massive pain in the ass it would be to add all of the various things in as custom Charms, that I could solve simply with limited Abyssal Charm access, so I added them back in.

Then I realized that I found it deliciously ironic that the Deathlords had to rely on their Abyssals to learn new tricks, so I added that, and called it a wrap.

The most important part, however (I really should bold this), is that all of the Deathlord's Charms gain the Spectral keyword, instantly relegating them back to the Underworld/shadowlands where they should be, with the Abyssals running out and about in Creation.

[Xefas]

Then I realized that I found it deliciously ironic that the Deathlords had to rely on their Abyssals to learn new tricks, so I added that, and called it a wrap.

The most important part, however (I really should bold this), is that all of the Deathlord's Charms gain the Spectral keyword, instantly relegating them back to the Underworld/shadowlands where they should be, with the Abyssals running out and about in Creation.

Those are some neat caveats, actually. Especially when paired with the Essence reduction. I'm not sure if -8 is too severe, though. I don't recall there being too many Essence 1 Abyssal Charms, so if any of the Deathlords are less than Essence 10, they miss out on the hilarious/ironic/cruel/awesome plot point of getting to learn charms from their supposed minions.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Those are some neat caveats, actually. Especially when paired with the Essence reduction. I'm not sure if -8 is too severe, though. I don't recall there being too many Essence 1 Abyssal Charms, so if any of the Deathlords are less than Essence 10, they miss out on the hilarious/ironic/cruel/awesome plot point of getting to learn charms from their supposed minions.

Hmmm. Point. Think I'll change that to a flat Essence 2 cap (Essence 3 is where the effects I don't want Deathlords to have start entering).

[meschlum]

The Mirror of Faces

No two mortals look alike, for all that they are mere extras in the paean that is a Raksha's existence. A Diplomat also noticed they were rather fragile, and terribly short-lived overall, when the ancient sage it had been debating uses of shoes with for a few decades (exchanging missives via carrier River Dragons every 7.3432 years on the dot) died before admitting the Diplomat was right.

Simply arguing with another Commoner, or mortal, would not do - so the Diplomat created the Mirror, so as to retrieve and impose the face of its former adversary on the next being it argued with. Satisfied that it had won the debate (that its opponent was a well stuffed scarecrow originally was irrelevant), the Diplomat forgot about the Mirror and it vanished into history... until it emerged in the hands of a rather lucky, if clumsy, young Lunar.

Thanks to the Mirror, Wolf Howls Alone became a master infiltrator, slipping into secure castles and nations without drawing any attention, even convincing quite a few wives (and husbands) that their actual spouse was the impostor. The Lunar's final fate is uncertain, but it was noticed that the lands he visited were blessed with more than the usual number of exceptional children.

1-dot Adjuration: "Until I am defeated, I shall bear all faces."
Assumption of Dreams and Passion - someone who has sworn to the Mirror can take on the features of anyone whose image was ever caught within it, gaining an automatic success on any roll required to copy that person. Actually selecting any but the most recent faces captured in the Mirror will require some effort, as each must be named.
Heaven Rains Wisdom - while the lore conveyed by the Mirror is of little use to the Creation-born, the ability to slip aside from the attention of Fate has saved more than one infiltrator.

Edit: Obviously, the Artifact / Magitech equivalent of this artifact is the Book of Faces. Though it works best for impersonating Exalts, as other people tend to have trouble surviving once their face is stored in the Book.


Diversion aside...


Recreating Kingdom Hearts is simple. You just drop enough 3+ dot Oneiromancies with Behemoth Forging Meditation on the landscape, and you've got all the mortals convinced (via Delusions) that they are whoever you want them to be, playing whatever roles you want them to play, indefinitely. Mix in intruding Exalts, and you're set.

Except that's boring, and works for pretty much any setting.

So how about this?


Imagine a world where legends are real. One in which the heroes of your childhood tales wander, meet, and conquer their foes. No, that is not enough. Imagine a hundred worlds, a thousand... because the world that Desus saves from the Evil Primordials is not, cannot, be the world where Old Man Siaka wanders from town to town, just ahead of the law.

Sure, you've done this before - tried to make sense of the stories, then set them aside as you grew up, grew old, grew tired. They were the fancies for young hearts, those who didn't know yet what the real world is like.

Now imagine that these worlds exist. Not dreams, alcohol fumes, or promises made by the priests. Places you can visit, actual people, everything like you always imagined it. Except not quite - because it's real, the heroes are living beings (except the Dead ones, of course) and the stories you've heard are just echoes of what happens.

Sounds like a pipe dream, doesn't it?

Except it's all true, with one catch I haven't told you yet - well, not really a catch, I suppose. You see, these worlds, these places of power, marvels, and mystery? They're threatened - something unnatural is destroying them, twisting the people into monsters when they don't simply cease to exist - and no one has any clue what to do about it.

Well... not quite. One person did, a sage so wise and powerful there are legends about his legends. But he vanished before he could tell his friends everything.

Oh, you caught that? Yes, he did say something - that's why I'm here, now, speaking to you. I don't know why. I don't know what. I just know that if those worlds are to be saved, we need you.

Will you come? Will you be the hero who'll save the Heart Kingdoms?


A Treatise on Life in the Heart Kingdoms

Each of the Heart Kingdoms is based around a fable, a mythical story that defines it. This story recurs over time, though most inhabitants do not mind, or notice, as their part in the whole is quite minor. More significant people, 'characters' so to speak, can realize the cyclical nature of their lives, and are for the most part satisfied with it.

The Kingdoms are largely isolated from one another, possibly to prevent excessive contamination between views of Creation, though a few characters are known to travel between them. Much of what is known of these lands is based on the reports of 'El Duck', a myth among myths even in the furthest Kingdoms.

Further reinforcing their isolation, the Kingdoms appear to be surrounded by an artificial sky of some sort, which can be crossed only at known openings. The experience is harrowing, and the term for clumsy pilots, or those using airships made from unsuitable materials, is "pancakes". Past three trips, there are no careless pilots, though passengers can be misplaced.

My first travels were to the famed aquatic wonderland where the fish-headed maidens sing, and there I discovered that the natives find clothing quite superfluous, as it hinders their mobility...


Message on a noticeboard in the Heart! Kingdom! Of! High! Adventure!

There are rumors of invaders in the border lands, unnatural, misshapen creatures that poison and destroy the land and people. 500 Gil reward offered for eliminating the infestation, though be warned that these creatures are said to be capable of utterly consuming the heart and soul of those they kill.

(scribbled underneath) It's true. A pack of them descended on Nentir, and there's nothing left there - no bodies, no buildings, no fields... Nothing!


Conversation overheard in the Citadel of Darkness

"I hear that the Apple was lost."

"Yes, the Heartless are progressing as planned, though control may be an issue."

"Don't worry. The Organization always has a few things in reserve."

"I know. Still..."

"Yes?"

"So long as the Dark Paths keep working, I agree we're unstoppable. But I wonder."

"Not that again? Look, if there ever was a Key that could lock out the Kingdom Hearts, we'd know about it."

"What about Kolwynia?"

"She's on our side, now. But you've got a point. We'll set up some security to make sure she stays that way. Don't want her to suddenly become Somebody, do we?"


The crunch: bringing it all together

The Keyblade

This awesome artifact possesses two powers, one known and one hidden. The known power of the Keyblade is that when used to kill a Heartless, it frees their heart, allowing them to return to what they were before. Its secret power is that once it has gained enough power, it can ward the Heart of a Kingdom, making it impossible for the Heartless void to consume.


Heart Kingdoms

Anyone who still has a heart, on entering a new Heart Kingdom, will be subtly changed in order to fit in properly. What's more, the legend that the Kingdom incarnates will recur around the visitor, though their presence can send things off track.

Inhabitants of a Heart Kingdom are largely immortal, so long as they remain tied to the pattern of their stories. However, the Heartless can (and do) destroy these Kingdoms if given a chance, and the damage they inflict creates dark gaps and holes which they can use to find new worlds to consume.

Usually, a person or object incarnates the Heart of a Kingdom, and s long as they are alive and healthy (if a person), or undamaged (if an object), the Kingdom can endure. If wounded or slain, the very land begins to unravel as the Heartless and Nobodies feed.

Travel between Kingdoms usually requires the ability to fly, and is quite dangerous even so. Ships making this safer have been created, using the very material of the Kingdoms borders, but it remains a rough and risky ride. However, recent events have revealed that there is a network of gates linking many of the Kingdoms, through secret routes that are often open only to the wielder of the Keyblade. These gates enable fast and unexpected travel, and some lead to Kingdoms that have not been heard of for aeons.


Heartless

Monstrous beings who, lacking hearts, are capable of creating incredible devastation among the Heart Kingdoms. Some were summoned at first for the power they offered to skilled sages, but they appear to have broken free of whatever bonds held them and are now a threat to all that exists - seeking to return everything to the void from which they come.


Nobodies

Powerful beings of the Heart Kingdoms have been known to clash with the Heartless, and some of those who survive return... changed. Ordinary folk would use terms like, 'infected', 'corrupted', or 'warped', but the Nobodies see it as gaining higher perception and power - and are even known to control the Heartless at times.

It is undeniable that a Nobody, already a potent entity before conversion, only becomes more dangerous afterward. What their new goals are, if they are organized, and so forth have yet to be revealed.


The True Heart

The most ancient tales say that once all the Heart Kingdoms were one, a land of nearly inconceivable power and delight. Something happened, and what had been One became the Kingdoms instead. Legends suggest that a remnant of that first place still remains, and if a way could be found to enter it - perhaps a gate opened by the Keyblade? - its power would be reborn and could be put to use.

Whether the use is for good or evil is another matter, but even evil would be preferable to the nothingness promised by the ever growing Heartless hordes.


The catch

The Heartless are mortals.

Heart Kingdom
A series of waypoints created with Soul Carving Artifice, and inhabited by the daydreamer from whose dream it was born (the 'incarnation' of the Kingdom). If the incarnation is slain, the Kingdom and its inhabitants unravel.

Edit: As an alternative, use interlocking Chancels, sparing the need for mortal dreamers and making the Kingdoms depend on the survival of the Guide whose Way became the Kingdom. Does create some weird packing problems, though.

Travel between Kingdoms (or waypoints within a Kingdom) is done via Journeys, which involve a fair bit of excitement and risk to accomplish. Unless a gate (or noble Fair Folk) is interfering, in which case it's very fast and safe. Of course, the local Workers assemble neat ships out of the local gossamer harvest, which can look rather odd... but Unreal Shipwright's Method does allow very fast transitions between Kingdoms.

Each Kingdom is a freehold, with a 1-dot Adjuration affecting all Heart bearing visitors. Typically, this is Assumption of Bestial Form, ensuring that they look properly anthropomorphic.

Keyblade: 4-dot Adjuration
Shuffling the Pieces: a Heartless slain by the wielder of the Keyblade is reborn as a fey being, with a Heart.
Assumption of the Land's Heart: a (mortal) incarnation of a Heart Land who is 'empowered' by the Keyblade becomes an intangible presence permeating the land, and is thus extremely hard to destroy.

Nameless
Heroic or Noble Fair Folk who are not caught up in the stories of the Kingdoms, and thus capable of plotting their overthrow. Tend to work closely with the Heartless because some of the Heartless have their Graces! Also, incredibly fond of posturing and angsting about.

True Heart
The original series of waypoints from which all the Kingdoms were created. Could be an Unshaped. Could be a Chancel. Could be somewhere in the Wyld. Who knows? Certainly, having access to all the Kingdoms, and the ability to control their contents, would grant incredible power.

[tonberrian]

That's the main problem, yes. Casteless lunars might as well be ticking timebombs, with the explosion not only likely to kill the rest of the circle, but literally makes the character unplayable.

Incidently, this is my number 1 pick for most serious unexpected consequences of breaching the Seal of Eight Divinities.

[golentan]

How so? I mean, I once did a thing where a lunar gained permanent dissonance instead of limit in blight zones and would have gone gremlin chimera if the game had gone ahead, but what's the canonical connection between chimerism and the seal?

[Turalisj]

Dunno.

But I would be interested in playing an Alchies game...

[Fortuna]

Who wouldn't?

Although Glorious Detonator of Unstable Essence could do with a revival, I'll admit.

[Volthawk]

How so? I mean, I once did a thing where a lunar gained permanent dissonance instead of limit in blight zones and would have gone gremlin chimera if the game had gone ahead, but what's the canonical connection between chimerism and the seal?

I think it's more than once the Seal's broken, you can have Autochtonian Exalts. Including Lunars. The Silver Pact doesn't have a presence in Autochtonia. That means Autochtonian Lunars won't be able to have tatoos applied to them, meaning they're all casteless, with their drawbacks.

Although Autochtonians would probably figure out some way of fixing it. Probably implant some magitech to regulate the shapechanging or something...

[KaganMonk]

That's the fix! AlcheLunars!
The secret to making any exalt awesome? Add some Alchie.

[Volthawk]

That's the fix! AlcheLunars!
The secret to making any exalt awesome? Add some Alchie.

Indeed. Magitech makes everything better.

So...we have Autochtonian-elemental Dragonblooded (back at page 17), and now AlchieLunars...I guess Abyssals would be all Voidtech-y and Gremlin-y, with their Whispers being of the Engine of Extinction.

[Kyeudo]

Current Lunars would be almost completely crippled in Autochthonia. The only forms availible over there is cockroaches, rats, and people until you get Hearth and Flame Shell. Just one more piece of evidence that Lunars weren't well thought out when they were designed.

[Tavar]

Eh, that one's not as big. Why? Because shapeshifting isn't that good for lunars. Oh, there's the mobility forms, but either Autochthon has them or their aren't that many places where another form is more mobile than a human. Other than that...yeah, there's not that many reasons for a Lunar to take an animal form. At least, not that I've found.

[Volthawk]

And once you can do elementals and the like...I'd think it's a lot easier to get those forms in Autochtonia than in Creation...

[Drascin]

Eh, that one's not as big. Why? Because shapeshifting isn't that good for lunars. Oh, there's the mobility forms, but either Autochthon has them or their aren't that many places where another form is more mobile than a human. Other than that...yeah, there's not that many reasons for a Lunar to take an animal form. At least, not that I've found.

Pretty much - I believe we were mentioning this not very long ago. Mostly, what Autochthonian Lunars would miss would be having a bunch of minor useful tricks to HBR when necessary, because the actual full shapeshifting is really not all that useful.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Current Lunars would be almost completely crippled in Autochthonia. The only forms availible over there is cockroaches, rats, and people until you get Hearth and Flame Shell. Just one more piece of evidence that Lunars weren't well thought out when they were designed.

...Lunars weren't well-designed because they failed to take into account a splat that wouldn't be written for a couple of years after it's release?

Uh, okay. I mean, I agree that that would something it'd be nice to get a mention in the Scroll of Errata, but I don't think it's exactly evidence of poor design (Lunars are poorly designed, mind you, it just has nothing to do with Alchemicals).

[Kyeudo]

...Lunars weren't well-designed because they failed to take into account a splat that wouldn't be written for a couple of years after it's release?

Uh, okay. I mean, I agree that that would something it'd be nice to get a mention in the Scroll of Errata, but I don't think it's exactly evidence of poor design (Lunars are poorly designed, mind you, it just has nothing to do with Alchemicals).

Autochthonians were included in 1st Edition. When Lunars were designed for Second Edition, they certainly could have taken the possibility of a Lunar being caught in a place where the number of living things availible for shapeshifting is almost none into account.

[Tavar]

It kinda is. I mean, what do you want animal shapes for? Not that much, besides mobility and stealth, both of which the shapes available provide to a sufficient degree.

[Story Time]

Prudent, wise, cautious, or not, I have decided to not answer Tavar's question in an open thread. At least, not in the Now. Most of my answer centers on feelings and personal impressions rather than solid facts such as the mechanical miscellanea.

...neither do I delude myself that the answer is so important as to functionally help other forum members that read this thread. I could be wrong...but I do not think that sharing my feelings is enough to make a difference in the Exalted Fanatic crowd.

Really, it makes me think of the Giant In The Playground Forums as one big room. The room is full of tables where people converse, chat, laugh, and play games. Except...at the Exalted table...where members scrounge about before yet again suggesting, "So...what part of the book do you want to tear out now?"


No offense was meant to anyone by the metaphorical and...seasoned content of this post.