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    Default The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    The Slowknife

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    "He can't hit me if I have the higher grou-" "THE WORLD!" "**** a duck, seriously!" - Jotaro Kujo and Dio Brando, Jo Jo's Bizarre Adventure Abridged

    The slowknife is a master of time and temporal magic. Unlike the swiftblade, who uses his superior speed to enhance his combat, the slowknife prefers slowing everyone else down so that he can watch them squirm, as well as allow his allies the chance to enjoy the fun.

    Prerequisites:

    To become a slowknife, you must meet the following prerequisites:

    Base Attack Bonus: +3
    Feat: Weapon Focus (Any Light Melee Weapon), Spell Focus (Transmutation)
    Special: Must be able to cast slow as an arcane spell, and must have spent the entire last level preparing slow in every available 3rd level spell slot, or not using any 3rd level spell slots to spontaneously cast any spell but slow.

    Hit Dice: d6

    Class Skills: The slowknife's class skills are Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Escape Artist, Hide, Knowledge (Arcana), Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Spellcraft, Spot, and Tumble

    Skill Points: 4+Int per level

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spellcasting

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Improved Slow|

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Slow Casting|+1 level of existing spellcasting class


    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Twist the Knife|

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Sudden Casting|+1 level of existing spellcasting class


    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Dulled Reactions|+1 level of existing spellcasting class


    6th|
    +4
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Aura of Slow|+1 level of existing spellcasting class


    7th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |You're Too Slow|+1 level of existing spellcasting class


    8th|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Master of Time|

    9th|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Dwindling Options|+1 level of existing spellcasting class


    10th|
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Time Be Still|+1 level of existing spellcasting class[/table]

    Class Features: The following are the class features of the slowknife.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Slowknives do not receive any additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

    Spellcasting: At each level except 1st, 3rd and 8th, the slowknife gains new spells per day, spells known (unless he is a prepared caster), and an increased caster level in his original spellcasting class that gives him the ability to cast slow. If he has more than one of these classes, he must choose one to advance at each level. The slowknife does not receive any additional benefits from the class, such as improved familiar progression or bonus feats.

    Improved Slow (Ex): A slowknife is able to bring any creature down with ease when he inflicts them with his trademark curse. When a creature is affected by the slowknife's slow spell, the penalties to that creature's attack rolls and AC becomes -3 instead of -1.

    Slow Casting (Ex): At 2nd level, a slowknife's ability to control time begins its gradual progression on the path to becoming ultimately superior to a "normal" caster's version. A 2nd level slowknife's slow spells cannot be countered or dispelled by the haste spell. (They can still be countered and dispelled by other means, such as dispel magic or the Improved Counterspell feat) Additionally, the slowknife becomes immune to the effects of the slow spell cast by another caster.

    Twist the Knife (Su): Unlike the back-stabbing rogue or the poison-using ninja, the slowknife employs superior speed and arcane power to vanquish his enemies. Starting at 3rd level, the slowknife adds his arcane caster level to his damage rolls with a light melee weapon, to a maximum of his character level. (If he has multiple arcane caster levels, he only adds the highest)

    Sudden Casting (Ex): Starting at level 4, a slowknife may cast the slow spell as a swift action, as if it was modified by the Quicken Spell feat, though it does not consume a higher level spell slot, may be used by spontaneous casters, and does not require the slowknife to have the Quicken Spell feat.

    Dulled Reactions (Su): The slowknife's control over time leaks into the air around him, and everyone else finds it harder to keep up with him. Starting at 5th level, all creatures within 100 feet of the slowknife take a penalty to their initiative rolls equal to the slowknife's casting ability bonus (minimum -0). (This ability does not affect the soulknife, but does affect his allies)

    Aura of Slow (Su): The slowknife's abilities mend the world around him, and continuously bend the fabric of time as long as the effect lingers. Even if a creature shrugs off the initial effect, it lingers and the creature must keep fighting. Starting at 6th level, whenever the slowknife casts the slow spell, he projects an aura centered on him with a radius equal to the spell's radius when he cast it for the duration of the spell. All enemies within that radius must make a saving throw at the beginning of each of its turns each or be subjected the effect. A creature that is already slowed need not save, but a creature who made its saving throw must continue making saving throws every round until the spell ends, it fails a saving throw, or it moves out of the area of effect.

    You're Too Slow (Ex): The slowknife's power makes even the fastest of creatures almost unable to defend themselves against an assault. Starting at 7th level, any creature who fails a saving throw against a slow spell cast by the slowknife is flat-footed for the duration of the spell.

    Master of Time (Sp): The slowknife no longer needs to consume as much arcane power as he used to to slow down time. Starting at 8th level, the slowknife gains the ability to cast slow as a spell-like ability, as a swift action a number of times per day equal to his casting modifier. In order to cast the spell-like ability, he must have a casting ability score of at least 16. As this is a spell-like ability, it has no verbal or somatic components. The slowknife's caster level for this spell-like ability is equal to his character level. Casting this spell-like ability triggers the slowknife's Aura of Slow, as if he had cast it as a spell.

    The slowknife's spell-like ability version of slow is unique, and comes from his study and constant practice with temporal distortion. The slow spell-like ability gained from this class feature can only target one creature within Close Range. The saving throw (Will Negates) DC is 16+the slowknife's casting ability modifier. On a failed save, instead of being slowed as normal, the creature is instead frozen in time. The creature is paralyzed for the duration of the spell-like ability.

    Dwindling Options (Ex): At 9th level, the creatures that suffer the effects of the slowknife's temporal manipulations stand almost completely still. A creature who fails its save against a slow spell cast by the slowknife may only take one move action and one swift action per round, as if the creature was nauseated. Immunity to nausea does not grant immunity to this effect. Additionally, the penalty to the creature's movement speed becomes -75% instead of -50%, with a minimum movement speed of 5' per round. Finally, creatures that have been slowed by the slowknife are unable to take 5' steps.

    Time Be Still (Ex): At 10th level, a slowknife's mastery of the slow spell can bring the world around him to a standstill. Any time the slowknife prepares or spontaneously casts slow in a 6th level spell slot, he can subsume the spell at the moment of casting instead, stopping all other creatures from reacting entirely, as the time stop spell, but for one round (No saving throw). See the spell description on page 294 of the Player's Handbook. For each spell slot level higher than 6th level, you can Time Be Still by 1 additional round. For example, a sorcerer/slowknife could subsume slow in an 8th level spell slot to create three rounds of Time Be Still. He cannot subsume a new slow spell until the original Time Be Still duration expires and his turn ends. Moreover, a slowknife cannot subsume a metamagic version of slow.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-10-10 at 11:24 AM.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Dulled reactions I think is too strong. Perhaps make the aura be much smaller, or simply have the penalty be half casting modifier.

    Twist the Knife is the only ability using a kukri and seems a minor one. Why not allow other knife-like weapons to be used as well?
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Dulled reactions I think is too strong. Perhaps make the aura be much smaller, or simply have the penalty be half casting modifier.

    Twist the Knife is the only ability using a kukri and seems a minor one. Why not allow other knife-like weapons to be used as well?
    Dulled Reactions is the exact inverse of the swiftknife's ability arcane reflexes. It is, in fact, weaker, as the slowknife only really gets the benefit if all creatures participating in combat are within 100 feet of him when you roll initiative.

    The reason Twist the Knife doesn't work with other knife weapons is because it's a powerful ability. Allowing it to work with daggers doesn't work, as daggers can be thrown, and I don't want to add any extra damage to the slowknife's ranged attacks.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Dulled Reactions is the exact inverse of the swiftknife's ability arcane reflexes. It is, in fact, weaker, as the slowknife only really gets the benefit if all creatures participating in combat are within 100 feet of him when you roll initiative.
    Except that arcane reflexes is only for yourself, making dulled reactions the stronger twin.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Except that arcane reflexes is only for yourself, making dulled reactions the stronger twin.
    Yes, but as dulled reflexes penalizes your allies' initiative as well, I don't see how it really affects anything. Unless you want the caster to start the battle 100 ft from all his allies so that his allies can go first as well. But in order for that to work, his allies must be more than 100 feet away, while the enemies are 100 feet away or closer.

    It seems like it would be really dangerous to the slowknife, just for a small initiative boost to his party.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    This is supposed to mirror the Swiftblade, correct? Note that everything below is what I had a problem with (I hate because I love! ). I liked everything else.

    Base Attack Bonus: +3
    Feat: Martial Weapon Proficiency: Kukri, Spell Focus (Transmutation)
    Special: Must be able to cast slow as an arcane spell, and must have spent the entire last level preparing slow in every available 3rd level spell slot, or not using any 3rd level spell slots to spontaneously cast any spell but slow.
    Why is the kukri in there? It fits in with none of the rest of the class.

    Hit Dice: d8
    Swiftblade is a d6. This should match.

    Spellcasting: At each level, the slowknife gains new spells per day,
    Swiftblade is 6/10. Full casting is too good.

    increased caster level in his original spellcasting class that gives him the ability to cast slow. If he has more than one of these classes, he must choose one to advance at each level. The slowknife does not receive any additional benefits from the class, such as improved familiar progression or bonus feats.
    This is very poorly worded. Should probably be a separate ability, in any case.

    Twist the Knife (Su): Unlike the back-stabbing rogue or the poison-using ninja, the slowknife employs superior speed and arcane power to vanquish his enemies. Starting at 3rd level, the slowknife adds his arcane caster level to his damage rolls with a kukri. (If he has multiple arcane caster levels, he only adds the highest)
    This is too good. There are several ways to boost CL, and this is a huge boost. Every single gish ever would dip three levels in this to get CL to damage.

    Why kukris, anyway? Ah? No range? Then just specify something like "any light weapon used in melee".

    Dulled Reactions (Su): The slowknife's control over time leaks into the air around him, and everyone else finds it harder to keep up with him. Starting at 5th level, all creatures within 100 feet of the slowknife take a penalty to their initiative rolls equal to the slowknife's casting modifier. (This ability does not affect the soulknife, but does affect his allies)
    An ability that screws over your allies isn't particularly fun. Why not just all enemies, maybe capping at half Slowknife level? Gishes are not going to have an enormous casting modifier. Also, "casting modifier" needs rewording to "casting ability bonus (minimum 1)".
    Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-10-09 at 05:01 PM.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm View Post
    This is supposed to mirror the Swiftblade, correct?



    Why is the kukri in there? It fits in with none of the rest of the class.
    It fits with Twist the Knife, first of all. Secondly, because proficiency with any martial weapon doesn't require a feat or a dip for elves.

    Swiftblade is a d6. This should match.
    Changing

    Swiftblade is 6/10. Full casting is too good.
    Yes, but the swiftblade's abilities are not dependent on your opponents failing saving throws, as haste does not allow a saving throw. Especially a saving throw with a DC as low 14+casting mod. The swiftblade also gets bonus feats and the ability to cast more than one spell per round while hasted. The slowknife gets neither of these.

    This is very poorly worded. Should probably be a separate ability, in any case.
    A separate ability? It's spellcasting progression.

    This is too good. There are several ways to boost CL, and this is a huge boost. Every single gish ever would dip three levels in this to get CL to damage.

    Why kukris, anyway?
    Because a kukri is a knife. A very long, powerful knife, that can't be used as a thrown weapon. And it has low damage dice, but a nice crit threat range. This class is more supposed to be more rogue-like than the swiftblade.

    An ability that screws over your allies isn't particularly fun. Why not just all enemies, maybe capping at half Slowknife level? Gishes aren't going to not have an enormous casting modifier. Also, "casting modifier" needs rewording to "casting ability bonus (minimum 1)".
    Your allies are not immune to your ability to slow time. Why would they be? The slowknife's mere presence is slowing everyone else down, and that includes his allies. But I'll reword the ability.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Except that arcane reflexes is only for yourself, making dulled reactions the stronger twin.
    No, it's weaker. Remember how initiative works -- what matters is how you do against everyone else. Giving everyone in the universe except you a penalty to their initiative is mechanically identical to giving yourself a bonus; they'll all have the same place in the initiative order relative to each other, you'll just be moved forward that far.

    It does have the advantage that it can be stack with competence bonuses to initiative. I'm not sure how common those are. But I agree with the above -- the problem is, if the enemy is outside of its range, all you're doing is screwing over your allies. That's no fun.



    And, basically, full casting is way, way too strong, especially with a higher HD. The Swiftblade isn't a weak class; I get that some of the abilities here are a bit weaker, but not by much (slowing everyone is huge), certainly not enough to justify the massive boost of four additional caster levels.

    What does this class cost a wizard or sorcerer? Two feats, in exchange for full BAB, d8 HD, +2 skill points, and a huge array of useful abilities, including a massive benefit to their relative Initiative? That's way too much for a full-casting class (which is why the Swiftblade wasn't full-casting.) 7/10, maybe. 8/10 if you want a really high-powered class. 10/10, no way. It's supposed to be a gish class, not something wizards randomly add to their build without giving up any casting ability at all. The initiative bonus alone is nearly worth two feats.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2011-10-09 at 05:09 PM.

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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post

    And, basically, full casting is way, way too strong, especially with a higher HD. The Swiftblade isn't a weak class; I get that some of the abilities here are a bit weaker, but not by much (slowing everyone is huge), certainly not enough to justify the massive boost of five additional caster levels.

    What does this class cost a wizard or sorcerer? Two feats, in exchange for full BAB, d8 HD, +2 skill points, and a huge array of useful abilities, including a massive benefit to their relative Initiative? That's way too much for a full-casting class (which is why the Swiftblade wasn't full-casting.) 7/10, maybe. 8/10 if you want a really high-powered class. 10/10, no way. It's supposed to be a gish class, not something wizards randomly add to their build without giving up any casting ability at all. The initiative bonus alone is nearly worth two feats.
    Lowered HD to d6, and made the casting 8/10

    Edit: Just reread, and I'm sorry, what? What class table were you reading, to say that my class is granting Full BAB?

    Edit II: Just to clarify- My reason for the kukri-only effect on Twist the Knife is that A) a kukri receives no bonus to damage from the Power Attack feat, and only adds half a creature's Strength modifier to damage and B) to prevent what Morph Bark said about "Every gish ever dipping to get this ability". Even though it's a nice ability, the inability of a gish to gain its power with a two-handed weapon or a natural attack in polymorphed form, combined with with loss of BAB and caster level, will hopefully discourage too many characters from dipping to get this ability.

    The kukri also has very low damage dice, so it's much better than simply choosing any light weapon used in melee. The Twist the Knife ability is simply supposed to be this class's version of Sneak Attack. But I'll go ahead and cap it at character level, that way it's like an improved version of Smite Evil.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-10-09 at 05:25 PM.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    It fits with Twist the Knife, first of all. Secondly, because proficiency with any martial weapon doesn't require a feat or a dip for elves.
    I really don't see why this is a problem. Humans and Strongheart Halflings qualify just as easily and are better, more versatile races besides. Easy gish qualification is one of the very few things elves do well, and there's no reason to specifically wall them off.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Because a kukri is a knife. A very long, powerful knife, that can't be used as a thrown weapon. And it has low damage dice, but a nice crit threat range. This class is more supposed to be more rogue-like than the swiftblade.
    This still doesn't explain why expertise with a Nepalese utility knife is more important to being a slow-oriented warrior-wizard than, say, a handaxe or a short sword or a rapier. The whole kukri thing comes across as really contrived, having very little to do with the flavor or abilities of the class.

    Also, if it's supposed to be more rogue-like, why does it have 8/10 casting? That makes it more of a caster than the swiftblade, not more of a rogue.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    I really don't see why this is a problem. Humans and Strongheart Halflings qualify just as easily and are better, more versatile races besides. Easy gish qualification is one of the very few things elves do well, and there's no reason to specifically wall them off.
    I see little reason to justify the elven race. I want the wizard or sorcerer who gets into this class to have to spend two feats to get in (or dip), bonus feats or otherwise. With a human or a strongheart halfling, getting into swiftblade required spending your bonus feat on something, and as a human, that was one of the two racial features you had. (And you couldn't use it on metamagic if you got into swiftblade) Meanwhile an elf got his Dex, got his low-light, got his immunities, and didn't have to spend a feat on swiftblade.

    This still doesn't explain why expertise with a Nepalese utility knife is more important to being a slow-oriented warrior-wizard than, say, a handaxe or a short sword or a rapier. The whole kukri thing comes across as really contrived, having very little to do with the flavor or abilities of the class.
    The 'flavor' of the class? This class is based on Dio Brando (the man in the picture above) and he uses nothing but kukris.

    Also, if it's supposed to be more rogue-like, why does it have 8/10 casting? That makes it more of a caster than the swiftblade, not more of a rogue.
    By "more roguelike" I meant less of a warrior and more of a rogue, not less of a caster.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Thoughts as they come up:

    Honestly, the kukri thing just feels like you're coming up with a lot of justifications for it being a kukri, rather than reasons. The kukri isn't a bad choice, and is a weapon I just plain enjoy for the most part, but having the ability only work with a light melee weapon discourages the dipping for most gishes, without discouraging someone who intends to use other weapons. I'd say either make the weapon itself more tied to the other abilities in some way, or open the door to people who want to use other weapons. That, and from an aesthetics standpoint, it just makes my brain itch that a slashing weapon is a requirement for something called "Twist the Knife" (which is something I associate with piercing weapons).

    I also think 8/10 casting feels a mite high. You're intended to be a melee-oriented debuffing rogue-y caster. Losing two caster levels is a rough cost (3 if you make a 1 level dip into a non-casting class to get proficiency), but honestly, losing 3 levels for what you're getting here just feels kinda off considering what you get. Keeping to the 6/10 that swiftblade got feels reasonable considering you're turning an already painful debuff into an extremely nasty one (potentially ending an encounter outright with dwindling options). Coupled with Aura of Slow, that means you're just plain ending fights more often than not. Adding on the ability to get to 9th level spells feels a bit much to me, especially for something that seems to be pushed more towards the melee route.

    The second level ability actually doesn't do anything as far as I can see. The shapechanger subtype doesn't allow you to ignore slow's effects at all, as far as I can tell (unless I'm just missing it, but the shapechanger entry, transmutation entry, and slow description make no mention of anything that would suggest as such).

    Sudden casting feels kinda too good as well. Free quicken on haste isn't bad considering you're only really gonna need to cast it once most combats. Free quicken on slow means that every round that someone isn't slowed, you're able to at only minor cost get another attempt to have them slowed again.

    Couple odd editing mistakes (for instance, i never knew that soulknives could cast transmutation spells, though i wonder why that's part of the No Exceptions text)

    The prereqs also feel a mite bit light. The swiftblade needs 2 feats, 2 skills at 6, and weapon proficiency (which may or may not be an issue depending on entry and race. Elves and beguilers deal with it handily). Slowknife needs one feat and one proficiency (which pretty much just means a 1 level dip at worst). For a class that honestly just feels plain better than the swiftblade, that's kinda odd.

    Dulled reactions is...strange. It's technically weaker than arcane reflexes, but only against things that are trying to hit you from a lot farther away, and it all seems like a lot more effort to functionally get "you get a bonus to your initiative". It'd probably be easier to mirror arcane reflexes in all honesty, just to make everyone's lives simpler.

    You're Too Slow is actually a really good ability. That said, it's the only thing that really makes me think "man, this would be a good rogue-y character". Unlike the swiftblade, which makes me think "speed-focused gish", this just makes me think "slow-focused caster who can stab things." Sadly, that's more a function of the spell being a debuff rather than a buff. You may want to consider finding other ways to make slow work to your benefit. More skillpoints helps, as would trapfinding/disable device. If you give them disable device, letting them burn a use of slow to get a bonus to reflex saves/disable device checks (slowing down the trap/effect that would hit them), that would help. Come to think of it, Twist the Knife would really make more sense only working on enemies that are under the effect of slow.

    Rather than just copying timestop as a capstone, it may be an interesting idea to allow you to use slow to instead "cast" time regression (from XPH), by "slowing down time so far as to put it in reverse", and letting you use higher level slots to reduce the XP cost.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Other then the kukri thing, a minor problem, I have seen 1 thing wrong.
    The description of No Exceptions refers to Soulknife near the end. Other then that in my very undereducated* opinion it looks good.




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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thiyr View Post
    Thoughts as they come up:

    Honestly, the kukri thing just feels like you're coming up with a lot of justifications for it being a kukri, rather than reasons. The kukri isn't a bad choice, and is a weapon I just plain enjoy for the most part, but having the ability only work with a light melee weapon discourages the dipping for most gishes, without discouraging someone who intends to use other weapons. I'd say either make the weapon itself more tied to the other abilities in some way, or open the door to people who want to use other weapons. That, and from an aesthetics standpoint, it just makes my brain itch that a slashing weapon is a requirement for something called "Twist the Knife" (which is something I associate with piercing weapons).
    Alright. I'll go ahead and say it works with any light melee weapon, but I'll keep the MWP: Kukri in the prereqs because of the intended flavor of the class, as well as to keep the prereqs steep.

    I also think 8/10 casting feels a mite high. You're intended to be a melee-oriented debuffing rogue-y caster. Losing two caster levels is a rough cost (3 if you make a 1 level dip into a non-casting class to get proficiency), but honestly, losing 3 levels for what you're getting here just feels kinda off considering what you get. Keeping to the 6/10 that swiftblade got feels reasonable considering you're turning an already painful debuff into an extremely nasty one (potentially ending an encounter outright with dwindling options). Coupled with Aura of Slow, that means you're just plain ending fights more often than not. Adding on the ability to get to 9th level spells feels a bit much to me, especially for something that seems to be pushed more towards the melee route.
    Alright, I'll make it 7/10 then.

    The second level ability actually doesn't do anything as far as I can see. The shapechanger subtype doesn't allow you to ignore slow's effects at all, as far as I can tell (unless I'm just missing it, but the shapechanger entry, transmutation entry, and slow description make no mention of anything that would suggest as such).
    The ability is intended to ignore the capstone of the Master of Many Forms prestige class, the Mutable Body (iirc) Changeling feat from Eberron, and etc. Shapeshifter creatures have a few different options that lets them simply ignore transmutation abilities that they don't want to happen. This ability states that those abilities don't apply to slow.

    Sudden casting feels kinda too good as well. Free quicken on haste isn't bad considering you're only really gonna need to cast it once most combats. Free quicken on slow means that every round that someone isn't slowed, you're able to at only minor cost get another attempt to have them slowed again.
    I disagree with you on that point.

    Couple odd editing mistakes (for instance, i never knew that soulknives could cast transmutation spells, though i wonder why that's part of the No Exceptions text)
    Fixed, thanks.

    The prereqs also feel a mite bit light. The swiftblade needs 2 feats, 2 skills at 6, and weapon proficiency (which may or may not be an issue depending on entry and race. Elves and beguilers deal with it handily). Slowknife needs one feat and one proficiency (which pretty much just means a 1 level dip at worst). For a class that honestly just feels plain better than the swiftblade, that's kinda odd.
    This class is not better than swiftblade. Swiftblade gets miss chance, AC, two bonus feats, and the ability to cast multiple spells per round while hasted.

    Dulled reactions is...strange. It's technically weaker than arcane reflexes, but only against things that are trying to hit you from a lot farther away, and it all seems like a lot more effort to functionally get "you get a bonus to your initiative". It'd probably be easier to mirror arcane reflexes in all honesty, just to make everyone's lives simpler.
    That doesn't make sense to me at all. You can slow time down, so you get a boost to initiative? I'd rather it be more complicated than just flat out incorrect.

    You're Too Slow is actually a really good ability. That said, it's the only thing that really makes me think "man, this would be a good rogue-y character". Unlike the swiftblade, which makes me think "speed-focused gish", this just makes me think "slow-focused caster who can stab things." Sadly, that's more a function of the spell being a debuff rather than a buff. You may want to consider finding other ways to make slow work to your benefit. More skillpoints helps, as would trapfinding/disable device. If you give them disable device, letting them burn a use of slow to get a bonus to reflex saves/disable device checks (slowing down the trap/effect that would hit them), that would help. Come to think of it, Twist the Knife would really make more sense only working on enemies that are under the effect of slow.
    I appreciate all your suggestions here, but I disagree with all of them.

    Rather than just copying timestop as a capstone, it may be an interesting idea to allow you to use slow to instead "cast" time regression (from XPH), by "slowing down time so far as to put it in reverse", and letting you use higher level slots to reduce the XP cost.
    This class is based on Dio Brando, from the anime/manga Jo Jo's Bizarre Adventure. He stops time. He stabs people with kukris.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-10-09 at 10:56 PM.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Alright. I'll go ahead and say it works with any light melee weapon, but I'll keep the MWP: Kukri in the prereqs because of the intended flavor of the class, as well as to keep the prereqs steep.
    Keeping the prereq at that point is just weirder then. Why require a specific weapon if you never need that weapon specifically? And that's not even a steep prereq. A one level dip handles it extremely easily, and that's something that a lot of people will be doing anyway.
    The ability is intended to ignore the capstone of the Master of Many Forms prestige class, the Mutable Body (iirc) Changeling feat from Eberron, and etc. Shapeshifter creatures have a few different options that lets them simply ignore transmutation abilities that they don't want to happen. This ability states that those abilities don't apply to slow.
    That's...an oddly specific thing to build in as a standalone ability, then. Either one racial feat or one 10-level PrC capstone just don't feel relevant enough to have an ability (the only ability on said level at that) dedicated to stopping. It's honestly something I would expect to see come up in something like maybe one of ten campaigns at best.


    I disagree with you on that point.
    Any reason why? Or even which part of the point you disagree with? Being able to pretty much no-cost slow every round is a lot better than haste every round, and while it's not necessarily game breaking itself, in combo with everything else, it kinda is.


    This class is not better than swiftblade. Swiftblade gets miss chance, AC, two bonus feats, and the ability to cast multiple spells per round while hasted.
    Miss chance is quite nice. AC is a fairly low bonus overall, even without considering AC's declining usefulness as levels progress. It gets two bonus feats, one of which is the end of a feat chain you had to take already (and isn't that good), and the other being a a way to slightly reduce (but not really) how bad spring attack is. Multiple spells per round is great, I'll grant you that, though it doesn't work in conjunction with the above bonus feats. You also forgot (Ex) haste, which is good for a class that needs haste active to use most of its abilities.

    For comparison, your class gets an extremely high flat damage boost with no activation condition, allows slow to be cast every round, forces constant saves (making the odds of resisting abysmally low in conjunction with the previous point, as it causes a potential 3 save vs slow per round if needed, though that's plain excessive admittedly), and creatures that are slowed can do nothing but run away. Even if they could, though, they're getting a large reduction to accuracy and AC. Additionally, your rogue-types will now be getting free sneak attacks, which can be absurdly painful with only minor additional investment. For by-far easier prerequisites (not needing to take 2 trap feats and not needing to invest skills anywhere specific being kinda a lot easier)


    That doesn't make sense to me at all. You can slow time down, so you get a boost to initiative? I'd rather it be more complicated than just flat out incorrect.
    It's the same logic that I assume caused you to refer to the slowknife's superior speed in Twist the Knife. Everyone else being slower is the same as you being faster. Heck, same logic as why the swiftblade gets timestop (they're moving faster, so everyone else seems slower.) From the objective viewpoint, they're all slower. From the subjective viewpoint of those slowed by the ability, you're faster.



    I appreciate all your suggestions here, but I disagree with all of them.
    Okay, then I'll just say that this class is in only one way at all rogue-y, that being its flat-footing of opponents. Otherwise it's a caster-warrior who uses light weapons for little-to-no reason.


    This class is based on Dio Brando, from the anime/manga Jo Jo's Bizarre Adventure. He stops time. He stabs people with kukris.
    I understand that point. Having never seen it, I can't say anything about accuracy, but it seems that you're having trouble separating the class from the character, though. The CHARACTER uses kukri, but from what i know of the anime, the kukri would have nothing to do with the ability to slow time. There's really little-to-no other reason to focus on the kukri at all other than "the character did it so the class must do it", when it's better design to make the kukri an option while allowing other potentially thematically appropriate weapons to work as well. If we're going for accuracy, the moment he stabs something while time is stopped, we're no longer accurate. Though honestly, the suggestion was mostly to bring the character more capacity to be rogue-y instead of just standard-gish-y, while giving it some separation from the swiftblade. That's more a matter of taste, admittedly, but the idea of making it different appeals to me overall.
    Last edited by Thiyr; 2011-10-09 at 11:51 PM.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thiyr View Post
    Keeping the prereq at that point is just weirder then. Why require a specific weapon if you never need that weapon specifically? And that's not even a steep prereq. A one level dip handles it extremely easily, and that's something that a lot of people will be doing anyway.
    Encouraging a one-level dip is a good thing, as it reduces caster level and spell progression.

    I can't think of a more appropriate pre-requisite feat anyway.

    That's...an oddly specific thing to build in as a standalone ability, then. Either one racial feat or one 10-level PrC capstone just don't feel relevant enough to have an ability (the only ability on said level at that) dedicated to stopping. It's honestly something I would expect to see come up in something like maybe one of ten campaigns at best.
    There are more than just those two, I'd have to consult my books to present a real list. Still, it was mainly a somewhat decent ignore-immunity ability to put in to an otherwise dead level. If I had a better idea, I'd replace it, as you pointed out, it's pretty situational. This class isn't done yet.

    Any reason why? Or even which part of the point you disagree with? Being able to pretty much no-cost slow every round is a lot better than haste every round, and while it's not necessarily game breaking itself, in combo with everything else, it kinda is.
    I disagree with the "minor cost" part. 3rd level spells are where the gish gets his bread and butter. Seriously, haste, stinking cloud, and fly? 3rd level spells are amazing, it's the point where casters really start to break away from their low HP and BAB and start owning people. Consuming an extra 3rd level spell slot to get a second chance at a save is not a 'minor cost'. It's casting a spell.


    Miss chance is quite nice. AC is a fairly low bonus overall, even without considering AC's declining usefulness as levels progress. It gets two bonus feats, one of which is the end of a feat chain you had to take already (and isn't that good), and the other being a a way to slightly reduce (but not really) how bad spring attack is. Multiple spells per round is great, I'll grant you that, though it doesn't work in conjunction with the above bonus feats. You also forgot (Ex) haste, which is good for a class that needs haste active to use most of its abilities.
    Multiple spells per round isn't 'great'. It's downright unfair. It's so powerful that it was removed from haste when they updated to 3.5. The 9th level ability of swiftblade is so incredibly powerful that it hands down makes the swiftblade the best gish PrC available, 6/10 progression be damned.

    For comparison, your class gets an extremely high flat damage boost with no activation condition, allows slow to be cast every round, forces constant saves (making the odds of resisting abysmally low in conjunction with the previous point, as it causes a potential 3 save vs slow per round if needed, though that's plain excessive admittedly), and creatures that are slowed can do nothing but run away. Even if they could, though, they're getting a large reduction to accuracy and AC. Additionally, your rogue-types will now be getting free sneak attacks, which can be absurdly painful with only minor additional investment. For by-far easier prerequisites (not needing to take 2 trap feats and not needing to invest skills anywhere specific being kinda a lot easier)
    Slow can be cast every round anyway. If you mean "allows slow to be cast every round as a swift action", then yes. For a spell slot. If you mean "Aura of Slow forces a new saving throw every round", then that's a fair point. But that's because basing a class around a spell that has no effect on a failed saving throw is pretty lame, especially when you can't get around the inescapable 3rd level DC, without burning a feat on Heighten Spell.

    Supporting the rogue is a good thing for casters to be doing. Whether it's a greater invisibility or You're Too Slow.

    And Martial Weapon Proficiency: Kukri is a pretty good example of a trap feat if you're not going to be using a kukri at all.

    It's the same logic that I assume caused you to refer to the slowknife's superior speed in Twist the Knife. Everyone else being slower is the same as you being faster. Heck, same logic as why the swiftblade gets timestop (they're moving faster, so everyone else seems slower.) From the objective viewpoint, they're all slower. From the subjective viewpoint of those slowed by the ability, you're faster.
    Yes, but in this situation, I don't have to use subjective viewpoints. I can simply say "They're slower" and then inflict a penalty. That way it's clear as day, instead of being relative or subjective. Besides, without the range limitation it doesn't make sense. "I go first, before everyone, including that cragtop archer 1000 feet away from me, because my magic reaches that far, even though the slow spell only has a normal AOE of Close.

    Okay, then I'll just say that this class is in only one way at all rogue-y, that being its flat-footing of opponents. Otherwise it's a caster-warrior who uses light weapons for little-to-no reason.
    Fair enough.


    I understand that point. Having never seen it, I can't say anything about accuracy, but it seems that you're having trouble separating the class from the character, though. The CHARACTER uses kukri, but from what i know of the anime, the kukri would have nothing to do with the ability to slow time. There's really little-to-no other reason to focus on the kukri at all other than "the character did it so the class must do it", when it's better design to make the kukri an option while allowing other potentially thematically appropriate weapons to work as well. If we're going for accuracy, the moment he stabs something while time is stopped, we're no longer accurate. Though honestly, the suggestion was mostly to bring the character more capacity to be rogue-y instead of just standard-gish-y, while giving it some separation from the swiftblade. That's more a matter of taste, admittedly, but the idea of making it different appeals to me overall.
    I'm not trying to represent The World, here. I'm representing Dio himself. Only Dio. That's why I wasn't allowing any other interpretations before. Because I want to match his character's fighting style exactly. I don't want to say "Oh this is how you could fight if you specialized in stopping time like Dio", I want to say "This is the perfect prestige class if you want to play Dio Brando".

    And I said that to tell you that I wasn't going to make time reverse, not that I wasn't going to change the kukri thing.

    Anyway, I came up with a better prereq feat. Weapon Focus (Any Light Melee Weapon) There. Now a player can specialize in the weapon he wants to use.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-10-10 at 12:13 AM.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by The-Mage-King View Post
    Know what approves of this PrC?



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    ZA WARUDO!
    Thank you very much, Mage-King!

    Can you suggest a possible 2nd level ability? I don't really like No Exceptions.

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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    I'm not trying to represent The World, here. I'm representing Dio himself. Only Dio. That's why I wasn't allowing any other interpretations before. Because I want to match his character's fighting style exactly. I don't want to say "Oh this is how you could fight if you specialized in stopping time like Dio", I want to say "This is the perfect prestige class if you want to play Dio Brando"
    And this is where I think I'll bow out of the thread. Largely because I find that making a class to create a character isn't really...well, all that useful. It's stripping options from what I otherwise consider to be a fairly cool concept (gish who slows time). That said, if you feel like continuing, more power to you. And as far as a few more comments (because being constructive is so fun :D)


    I disagree with the "minor cost" part. 3rd level spells are where the gish gets his bread and butter. Seriously, haste, stinking cloud, and fly? 3rd level spells are amazing, it's the point where casters really start to break away from their low HP and BAB and start owning people. Consuming an extra 3rd level spell slot to get a second chance at a save is not a 'minor cost'. It's casting a spell.
    I suppose part of my thought process is coming from the idea that you can use higher spell levels (and will want to via heighten anyway to have a better DC for your core ability). I'm not denying that 3rd level spells aren't great, but by that point you can use other spells as well. Beyond that, you seem to be arguing that gishes get a lot from the level, but then argue that its all casters that get the goodies (supported by stinking cloud, which isn't really that great for a gish to be casting). I'll still stick by my statement, though, largely because it's that in combo with aura of slow and dwindling options that make it stand out as being -really- bad.

    Multiple spells per round isn't 'great'. It's downright unfair. It's so powerful that it was removed from haste when they updated to 3.5. The 9th level ability of swiftblade is so incredibly powerful that it hands down makes the swiftblade the best gish PrC available, 6/10 progression be damned.
    Honestly, while I agree with the swiftblade being really good, I can't agree with it being the best gish PrC. Hard entry, never getting 9th level spells, and abilities which are good but not great make me plant if firmly in "Excellent choice, but reasonable". Being able to cast 9ths, turn your iconic spell into a save-every-round-or-lose, and being much easier to enter places it higher.

    Slow can be cast every round anyway. If you mean "allows slow to be cast every round as a swift action", then yes. For a spell slot. If you mean "Aura of Slow forces a new saving throw every round", then that's a fair point. But that's because basing a class around a spell that has no effect on a failed saving throw is pretty lame, especially when you can't get around the inescapable 3rd level DC, without burning a feat on Heighten Spell.

    Supporting the rogue is a good thing for casters to be doing. Whether it's a greater invisibility or You're Too Slow.

    And Martial Weapon Proficiency: Kukri is a pretty good example of a trap feat if you're not going to be using a kukri at all.
    Slow can be cast every round anyway. Slow cannot be cast twice a round normally without burning 7th level spell slots. You can't force the opponent to remake the save again every round, either. Having the spell do nothing sucks. But being able to win every encounter with ease because there's no way to resist a spell outside of "only fail save on a 1" isn't really better. I'd rather see it become a will (partial), or have the DC get higher, rather than that.

    Supporting the rogue is great. I don't think that was a problem. In fact, I said I liked that ability.

    And MWP isn't a trap feat. It's not even a feat. It may appear in the feat section, but even with my first character, I couldn't imagine a reason to -ever- take proficiency feats that aren't for exotic weapons.

    Yes, but in this situation, I don't have to use subjective viewpoints. I can simply say "They're slower" and then inflict a penalty. That way it's clear as day, instead of being relative or subjective. Besides, without the range limitation it doesn't make sense. "I go first, before everyone, including that cragtop archer 1000 feet away from me, because my magic reaches that far, even though the slow spell only has a normal AOE of Close.
    While I personally can't remember the last time combat really started at a distance much farther than 100 feat, i concede that it can happen. That said, you can justify it by saying you're now able to react faster due to having seen it happen so many times in slo-mo, that you're slowing the world for just enough to move that split second faster, or a number of other ways. Either way, the benefit gained doesn't feel worth the headache caused out of game for me. And I'm not saying you have to, I'm saying that's where the logic comes from. I was responding to you saying it didn't make sense in order to explain it >_>;

    But yea, I've made my points, and at this point I'm sure we'll just keep arguing in circles. Hope my input has helped at least a bit. If nothing else, it gave me an idea on something to make myself to fit the concept, so thanks for that at least :P (Also, on thinking on the last point, why wouldn't swiftblade work for making this character? You can stab things as well as most gishes, your speed can be fluffed as slowing everything else down, and you still get time stop at the end. It seems like it fits fairly well.)
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    "You're Too Slow" should state that victims are denied their dexterity bonus against attacks; Flat-Footed is a specific game condition that has additional and more powerful ramifications (it prevents using Immediate actions and Attacks of Opportunity in addition to no Dex, as well as enabling Iajutsu Focus strikes.) If you mean it to just support Rogues, 'denied dex' will do without seeming like it's invoking a different game mechanic.
    I'm not trying to represent The World, here. I'm representing Dio himself. Only Dio. That's why I wasn't allowing any other interpretations before. Because I want to match his character's fighting style exactly. I don't want to say "Oh this is how you could fight if you specialized in stopping time like Dio", I want to say "This is the perfect prestige class if you want to play Dio Brando".
    Ok, then perhaps you shouldn't have the class fluff as "this is the Swiftblade's Slow-using counterpart?" That just invites comparison to, well, Swiftblades and figuring out how your work fits into normal build stuff. (Well, that would probably happen anyway, because you don't need our commentary to tell you whether or not it looks like Dio.)

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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thiyr View Post
    And this is where I think I'll bow out of the thread. Largely because I find that making a class to create a character isn't really...well, all that useful. It's stripping options from what I otherwise consider to be a fairly cool concept (gish who slows time). That said, if you feel like continuing, more power to you. And as far as a few more comments (because being constructive is so fun :D)
    Well, that was my original goal, but if you noticed, I've let it go. I dropped the kukri requirements, dropped the MWP: Kukri, and just moved on to a more generic light weapon gish slower. So no need to bow out just yet, please. I'm making concessions here because I wanted to get some PEACH.


    I suppose part of my thought process is coming from the idea that you can use higher spell levels (and will want to via heighten anyway to have a better DC for your core ability). I'm not denying that 3rd level spells aren't great, but by that point you can use other spells as well. Beyond that, you seem to be arguing that gishes get a lot from the level, but then argue that its all casters that get the goodies (supported by stinking cloud, which isn't really that great for a gish to be casting). I'll still stick by my statement, though, largely because it's that in combo with aura of slow and dwindling options that make it stand out as being -really- bad.
    I think that battlefield control spells are good for any caster to have, gish, archer, blaster, or otherwise.

    Even if you're casting slow every round, then Sudden Casting is a good thing, because you're only casting it because enemies keep making their saving throws. This allows you to keep it up without needing to waste your actions on it. I mean, your class revolves around slowing your enemies, so I would think it would be bad design to not give you the ability to cast it without wasting an action every turn. If you cast it using a higher level spell slot with the intention that a higher DC will make everyone fail their saves, okay. If you're correct, then you only did it once, and there's no need to cast it again.

    You can't really get much out of spamming slow other than actually making the spell work. I mean, it's not like spamming slay living or disintegrate.

    Honestly, while I agree with the swiftblade being really good, I can't agree with it being the best gish PrC. Hard entry, never getting 9th level spells, and abilities which are good but not great make me plant if firmly in "Excellent choice, but reasonable". Being able to cast 9ths, turn your iconic spell into a save-every-round-or-lose, and being much easier to enter places it higher.
    Actually now that my class lost 3 levels, you can only cast 9ths if you're a wizard or a wu jen.

    Slow can be cast every round anyway. Slow cannot be cast twice a round normally without burning 7th level spell slots. You can't force the opponent to remake the save again every round, either. Having the spell do nothing sucks. But being able to win every encounter with ease because there's no way to resist a spell outside of "only fail save on a 1" isn't really better. I'd rather see it become a will (partial), or have the DC get higher, rather than that.
    I have no idea what would happen on a Will (Partial) for slow. Seriously. Maybe a 10 foot reduction in speed. That's it. Slow's main draw is "No full round actions". You can't half that.

    Having the DC get higher won't help either. Aura of Slow ignores the lucky natural 20s by forcing creatures to roll every round, as well as the "I have a 50/50 chance of saving". Increasing DCs for spells doesn't work because if your opponent makes the save, even with your increased DC, what will you do? You wasted a spell slot. Wasted an action. For no gain.

    That's fine in a normal class, but in a class that's all about a specific spell, eliminating the saving throw as a factor is much better than just raising the DC and hoping it will scale enough to keep up at higher levels (which it won't, because the base is still going to be way too low unless you Heighten it)

    Supporting the rogue is great. I don't think that was a problem. In fact, I said I liked that ability.
    Ah good.

    And MWP isn't a trap feat. It's not even a feat. It may appear in the feat section, but even with my first character, I couldn't imagine a reason to -ever- take proficiency feats that aren't for exotic weapons.
    Changed it to Weapon Focus, which is a trap feat, though arguably more useful than Dodge.

    While I personally can't remember the last time combat really started at a distance much farther than 100 feat, i concede that it can happen. That said, you can justify it by saying you're now able to react faster due to having seen it happen so many times in slo-mo, that you're slowing the world for just enough to move that split second faster, or a number of other ways. Either way, the benefit gained doesn't feel worth the headache caused out of game for me. And I'm not saying you have to, I'm saying that's where the logic comes from. I was responding to you saying it didn't make sense in order to explain it >_>;
    Eh, see, but that's more of a swiftblade logic, which is what I'm trying to mirror instead of copy. You know, like Nale from OotS? This is supposed to be the swiftblade's "evil opposite".

    But yea, I've made my points, and at this point I'm sure we'll just keep arguing in circles. Hope my input has helped at least a bit. If nothing else, it gave me an idea on something to make myself to fit the concept, so thanks for that at least :P (Also, on thinking on the last point, why wouldn't swiftblade work for making this character? You can stab things as well as most gishes, your speed can be fluffed as slowing everything else down, and you still get time stop at the end. It seems like it fits fairly well.)
    Refluffing it is very doable indeed. The sadist in me just prefers using slow to make everyone else suck rather than using haste to make me awesome.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    "You're Too Slow" should state that victims are denied their dexterity bonus against attacks; Flat-Footed is a specific game condition that has additional and more powerful ramifications (it prevents using Immediate actions and Attacks of Opportunity in addition to no Dex, as well as enabling Iajutsu Focus strikes.) If you mean it to just support Rogues, 'denied dex' will do without seeming like it's invoking a different game mechanic.
    I didn't mean it to just support rogues. A character who has been slowed is unable to defend themselves properly. Removing immediate actions and Attacks of Opportunity was intentional. It makes the slow spell much deadlier and more usable at higher levels of play.

    Ok, then perhaps you shouldn't have the class fluff as "this is the Swiftblade's Slow-using counterpart?" That just invites comparison to, well, Swiftblades and figuring out how your work fits into normal build stuff. (Well, that would probably happen anyway, because you don't need our commentary to tell you whether or not it looks like Dio.)
    It's alright, I've decided to go back to that "slow-using counterpart" point. I'm making the class more generic, though I still plan to keep the capstone as time stop because I really dislike temporal regression.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-10-10 at 01:17 AM.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Thank you very much, Mage-King!

    Can you suggest a possible 2nd level ability? I don't really like No Exceptions.

    (Also the new half-elf-vatar is epic)
    Hm... Since this class is based on slowing down and stopping time...

    Something like... No... Stasis is too high level.


    I've got nothing.



    Also, it's the same character for my avvy. Not a half elf. Just... Cutting loose. Taking advantage of the rift he can easily create.


    Thinking about it... I wonder how dangerous a character with both this and Swiftblade would be, assuming they could be fit on one character... Timey-Wimey much?
    Last edited by The-Mage-King; 2011-10-10 at 01:33 AM.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by The-Mage-King View Post
    Hm... Since this class is based on slowing down and stopping time...

    Something like... No... Stasis is too high level.


    I've got nothing.



    Also, it's the same character for my avvy. Not a half elf. Just... Cutting loose. Taking advantage of the rift he can easily create.


    Thinking about it... I wonder how dangerous a character with both this and Swiftblade would be, assuming they could be fit on one character... Timey-Wimey much?
    Assuming he jumped from one to the other, it would be rather interesting, as he would have had to use ALL his 3rd level spell slots to cast the antithesis spell in order to qualify for the other class. (So a swiftblade who spent an entire level using all his 3rd level slots to cast slow, without being able to use haste except as a higher level spell)

    The CL hit would be incredible though. Neither swiftblade nor slowknife grant a spellcasting level at 1st, so taking the first level of both will already cut you down to max spell progression 18. If you go into slowknife anymore, you'll hit the second CL cut at 3rd level, and then the 4th level CL hit at swiftblade...

    Don't get me wrong, you'd be the most flavorful gish ever if you did this, but....you'd probably be capping at 6th level spells. (hopefully. If you don't get 6th level spells, you can't use either capstone!)

    Edit: Put in Slow Casting instead of No Exceptions. What do you all think?
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-10-10 at 01:44 AM.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    No, it's weaker. Remember how initiative works -- what matters is how you do against everyone else. Giving everyone in the universe except you a penalty to their initiative is mechanically identical to giving yourself a bonus; they'll all have the same place in the initiative order relative to each other, you'll just be moved forward that far.
    I didn't read the ability so thoroughly I guess, as originally I thought it only affected enemies. Perhaps I was just too assumptive since negative effects usually don't affect allies. But yes, that makes the ability much, much worse.


    Considering the picture used for the Slowknife, I don't get the argument that the chosen weapon should not be a throwing weapon. ()

    For a second level ability... what about shapechangers makes it so that they shrug off all transmutation spells when they change? That's only for polymorph effects for as far as I know. Or are there obscure rules on this? Perhaps you could make an ability granting you a dodge bonus against those who have been slowed by you, starting at +2 and increasing by 1 for every 2 levels thereafter.

    EDIT: Nevermind, saw you added a new ability.
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2011-10-10 at 01:49 AM.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    I didn't mean it to just support rogues. A character who has been slowed is unable to defend themselves properly. Removing immediate actions and Attacks of Opportunity was intentional. It makes the slow spell much deadlier and more usable at higher levels of play.
    Ah. Ok, if you actually are wanting Flat Footedness, you should remove "against attacks" from the description; flat footed against attacks only is the same as denied Dex in most situations, and wouldn't activate the no Immediates/no AoO part of the condition.

    I'm not sure where it'd fit in best, but a focused Slow ability could fit in- you trade in the multiple targeting, so you cast Slow as a Target: One Creature spell instead. When you do that, the effect on a failed save changes from slowing to completely immobilizing the victim, paralyzing them. Would function as a non-Mind Affecting Hold Monster (I'd suggest it also makes it Save Partial: Slowed as normal instead, but combined with Dwindling Options would make that a far too reliable and powerful debuff- either shut out of the fight completely, or... shut out of the fight completely.)

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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    Ah. Ok, if you actually are wanting Flat Footedness, you should remove "against attacks" from the description; flat footed against attacks only is the same as denied Dex in most situations, and wouldn't activate the no Immediates/no AoO part of the condition.
    Thank you very much. I removed that "against attacks" part.

    I'm not sure where it'd fit in best, but a focused Slow ability could fit in- you trade in the multiple targeting, so you cast Slow as a Target: One Creature spell instead. When you do that, the effect on a failed save changes from slowing to completely immobilizing the victim, paralyzing them. Would function as a non-Mind Affecting Hold Monster (I'd suggest it also makes it Save Partial: Slowed as normal instead, but combined with Dwindling Options would make that a far too reliable and powerful debuff- either shut out of the fight completely, or... shut out of the fight completely.)
    I like it! It's too bad that petrification specifically states the creature is turned to stone. I wanted to make it a petrified ability. Anyway, I updated Master of Time to give the slowknife a unique spell as an SLA.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    The ability to cast the equivalent of Hold Monster casting modifier times per day is overpowered at the level you get it I think.... make it just Slow instead, or say that the substitute effect only happens if they fail the save by 10 points or something...
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2011-10-10 at 04:47 PM.
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    Default Re: The Slowknife, the Swiftblade's annoying cousin (3.5 PrC PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    The ability to cast the equivalent of Hold Monster casting modifier times per day is overpowered at the level you get it I think.... make it just Slow instead, or say that the substitute effect only happens if they fail the save by 10 points or something...
    It was just slow before, then tyckspoon suggested that paralysis would be more powerful. So I don't know. I mean, one of you says that slow isn't strong enough, and the other says that paralysis is too strong.

    To be fair though, it comes late (Level 13). I mean, a beholder is a CR 11 (iirc, AFB and the beholder isn't on the SRD) and it can petrify as a free action at will.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-10-10 at 04:52 PM.
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