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Thread: 5e?

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    Default Re: 5e?

    We were just talking about this last week: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217478
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    Default Re: 5e?

    It was sure to happen eventually, and as far as D&D editions go 4e will probably have roughly the same runtime as the earlier editions. Besides, it's not like anyone will be forced to switch over - there's still players of OD&D, 1e, 2e, 3e, 3.5e, and there will still be players of 4e, even once 5th, 6th, and later editions emerge.

    I'm mostly interested in seeing what they do with it. 4e was intentionally fairly gamist in nature, but I understand that 3e was more gamist than 2e which was more gamist than 1e, so if that trend continues presumably 5e will be the most gamist of them all. I'm not sure how they'll pull that off, though. How the system works, how the fluff changes... What occurs remains to be seen.

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    If they continue in that direction, it would be Warhammer with a different brand name.

    As I see it, the problems of 3rd Ed, and everything that's wrong with 4th Ed are mostly results of wizards busines model, so I don't have any high hopes for a 5th Edition.
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    It could* be a good step. Maybe. Monte has a very different take on the game than 4E does, and in a way he almost exemplifies everything that 4E excised (good and bad). So if he's really back to work on 5E they may be looking to do something with more 3E influence.

    *Could be. It probably won't be, but that's a different story.
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    All I'll say is that it'll have to be a better game system than Pathfinder to get even a cent out of me.

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    Yeah, I'm not really sure what would convince me to buy this. I'm in love with 3.5 and now especially Pathfinder, and there are a number of gaming systems out there that satisfy me if I want a more niche game system. It'll have to be pretty spectacular to get me interested
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blisstake View Post
    Yeah, I'm not really sure what would convince me to buy this. I'm in love with 3.5 and now especially Pathfinder, and there are a number of gaming systems out there that satisfy me if I want a more niche game system. It'll have to be pretty spectacular to get me interested
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    I think for my personal needs, Pathfinder could be surpassed very easily.

    But that would be a game with 3 rulebooks and a library of fluff with one race, one alternate class feature, and 4 spells per book at the most. And I don't see wizards doing such a thing.
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    I predict that WOTC is putting a team together consisting of 3E and 4E designers, and will market this as combining the best parts of both editions, whatever they perceive those to be.

    I predict furthermore that many current fans of these earlier editions will instead see it as combining the worst parts of both editions, and keep playing whatever their current favorite is. Not that WOTC will care, because they'll be aiming it for new players, not current ones.

    Finally, I predict that 5E will be widely derided as "gamist", "dumbing down", "like a video game", and "ruined forever", just like every edition since the second was. Because hey, a new edition of anything wouldn't be complete without a flame war.

    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2011-10-12 at 03:57 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bendraesar View Post
    All I'll say is that it'll have to be a better game system than Pathfinder to get even a cent out of me.
    By what standards are you measuring, though? I'd say that 4e is a "better game system than Pathfinder," myself, but I'm fully cognizant that that's because I know it better and I find a mechanically balanced system to be of high import (and AFAIK Pathfinder is only somewhat more balanced than the grossly-imbalanced 3.x system).

    Basically, if you look at it that way, an objectively-better game system than a decent one is impossible. Systems have differences in their goals and that changes how they're made and scored. Some systems surely are better than others, like D&D as a system family is better than I hear FATAL or Synibarr are, but I don't think most of the main professional systems are objectively better or worse than each other.

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    Meh i will give anything a shot, the players make the game not the system anyway.

    I don't envy him trying to do a new DnD ed its like trying to re write the bible, with all the baggage attached no matter how many people he pleases he is going to upset just as many. And upset people are always far more vocal then happy ones.
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    Honestly, I liked fourth edition, and felt that people calling it video-gamey wasnt neccasarily bad, I like video games. IMO, 4e was a step in the right direction for
    WotC, at least the balance part of it was. People shouldnt say they should disregard anything they learned while making 4e, and make it stem directly from 3.5, because they learned a lot while making both.
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    I don't think I would buy any new edition of D&D anytime soon. It's just that I can do anything I need with 3.5, so there's not much incentive to change. Ammount of free (or cheap) roleplaying systems around makes the sale even harder. 5e might become a great system, but it still wouldn't change much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cat Goddess View Post
    4e just came out a few years ago. We've still got some time with it before the next edition.
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    Margaret Weis (of Dragonlance) confirmed that Monte Cook was working on 5E, over on the official Dragonlance forums.

    I think the main reason for the backlash against 4E was expectations. The consumers were expecting a more streamlined 3E with some rule fixes and minor modifications. Instead, they got an entirely different game and felt betrayed.

    Odds are, 5E will be an entirely different game, too. That way, Wizards of the Coast can justify releasing a ton of new splatbooks to go with it, as that's how they make their money.

    So it's important to keep that in mind.
    The problem with the more recent editions of D&D is that at some point the term 'player empowerment' was twisted to mean 'player entitlement.'

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    I didn't like 4e because every class felt the same. At Will's, Encounter, Dailies were really annoying. "I can only swing my sword like this once an episode?" Made me really not like it. I liked that melee was able to do more tactical things rather than "I swing again" but the power/exploit system really just stacked on more damage (instead of adding a more tactical aspect) making it feel like an MMO when attacking.

    Also the magic items were incredibly gamist, It's like playing WoW or Diablo (nothing against either of them, I just don't want my RPG's to be like it lootwise) I wish they would have a loot system more like Warhammer Fantasy or Shadowrun (less +1's yet still a lot of options) I would like to see much more nifty wondrous items & less magic swords. (Magic should be rare & powerful, in my opinion)

    Well there is my mini-rant. I don't hope to cause any flames

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    well, in my opinion it would be hard pressed to do worse than 4e I really hope Monte makes a great game.

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    Here's to hoping that Monte Cook tricks Wizards into releasing 3.5 again.

    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    4e just came out a few years ago. We've still got some time with it before the next edition.
    That's what people said about 3e when WotC was working on 4e.

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    If 5e is to 4e what 4e is to 3e and 3e is to AD&D, then maybe it will be a game I'll actually like instead of just finding passable!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    If they continue in that direction, it would be Warhammer with a different brand name.
    Then they would've come full circle, starting with making an RPG from a war game and ending with making a war game out of an RPG. Has a nice pattern to it if nothing else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by starwoof View Post
    Here's to hoping that Monte Cook tricks Wizards into releasing 3.5 again.

    Cheers.
    Why would you want more of the same tho?

    I can understand you like 3.5 but you already have it what would re-releasing it do?

    If they re-released they would have to come up with new stuff for it which would ultimately change the game and these changes would probably not be liked by a fair portion of the community, as not liking change is a fairly common frame of mind.
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    If they released a game with less segregation between story and gameplay, more interesting options for combat, abolished the daily/encounter/at-will system (at least for non-magical characters), the same rules governing both players and monsters and NPCs, then I might, just might, buy it. Otherwise, Pathfinder it is for me.
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    {{scrubbed}}
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    Kind of hope Monte Cook makes a post about how he is going to try to add his own personal flair and the like to 4th Edition and that he's not working on a new Edition.

    Just so I will stop seeing all these threads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    Why would you want more of the same tho?

    I can understand you like 3.5 but you already have it what would re-releasing it do?

    If they re-released they would have to come up with new stuff for it which would ultimately change the game and these changes would probably not be liked by a fair portion of the community, as not liking change is a fairly common frame of mind.
    More splatbooks. You'll notice that the later books WotC produced were much more cognisant of the balance issues 3.5 had, and went very far to provide ways to play without them. ToB, Magic of Incarnum, That Book with the Factotum*, the various specialized caster classes, all of them are decent T3 options that are clearly alternatives for the previously inbalanced classes. So if WotC wants to make more 3.5 splats following the later books' templates, more power to them.

    *Dungeonscape, I know, but seriously, Factotum was the best thing in there.
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    Default Re: 5e?

    EDIT: Haha, I got ninja'd by someone who expressed my opinion better than I did. I just want to play pathfinder I guess.
    Last edited by starwoof; 2011-10-12 at 08:22 PM.

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    First, I note that working on a new edition shouldn't be too surprising. I mean, 4e sales aren't going to last forever, and the longer they have to develop the new system, the less time they spend between lagging 4e sales and the new release. They make money off new book sales, after all.

    One thing I'd like to say is that, despite 4e being "designed with video games/MMOs in mind", the system ends up remarkably poor as a video game. I mean, there is only one current 4e video game that I am familiar with, and it doesn't even work like the actual 4e system (from what I have heard). Didn't they get a video game designer on-board with this idea, or did they just hand out a survey to WoW subscribers and figure that was it?

    What little we've heard from WotC about the new system isn't very inspiring, either. They spoke of making the game more modular, where you could pick and choose your power level and such for the system. My thought was great; this would allow for low-magic games or high-magic dimensional travel, depending on what you wanted, and accounted for the difference in the system! Unfortunately, what they ended up talking about was basically "modular splatbooks" where you could choose to either use or not use the content in the book. Isn't that always an option?

    I haven't been impressed with Monte Cook's resume, either. He's made some good design decisions, but he's made far more bad ones, and it is hard to see how he reflects back on them all. I'm also not familiar with anything he's done outside the "d20 System", so it is hard to say how he would treat an entirely new system.

    Okay, rant over for now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WitchSlayer View Post
    Kind of hope Monte Cook makes a post about how he is going to try to add his own personal flair and the like to 4th Edition and that he's not working on a new Edition.

    Just so I will stop seeing all these threads.
    Why would they bother bringing him back to add anything to 4e?

    The people who are 4e fans would buy the books regardless of him being involved or not.

    I doubt him becoming involved would win over any of the 3.5/pathfinder fanatics.

    And new players to DnD who are just taking the hobby up probably have no idea who he is anyway, so it makes no difference.


    Splat books will never sell as much as core books so it wouldn't be surprising if future editions got closer and closer together as time goes on.
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