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    Default Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    I made this class a long time ago. It's never seen the light of day, never seen playtesting, never been shown to anyone. I consider it a good class. It was one of the first classes I ever made, and I would love some input on it. Yes, it has the potential to be breakable, but I think I balanced it well. Without further ado, I give you:

    Jack Of All Tades

    Some people fight. Some cast magic. Some sing. Some commune with the divine. The Jack Off All Trades does all of this and some. While he never truly specializes in anything, he has a huge spectrum of abilities he can perform.

    The Jack Of All Trades is slightly sporadic, tending towards chaos, although many of them are neutral. They have no inclinations when it comes to good or evil, being both with equal frequency.

    Of all the races, halflings are most likely to become Jacks Of All Trades, followed closely by humans. They relate well with most classes, being useful in most every situation.

    Because Jacks Of All Trades have so many different skills, it is very difficult to say exactly what stat is most useful to him. However, Strength and Dexterity are useful in most combat situations, and Wisdom and Intelligence are useful if you give him a spell casting ability.

    3/4 BAB
    Saves are as Monk -2 (yes, I know this is odd).

    Class Skills: A Jack Of All Trades is unique in this aspect. He has all skills as class skills.
    Skillpoints at 1st level: (8+INT Mod) x4
    Skillpoints at level up: 8+INT Mod
    Hit Die: d8

    Class Features: All the following are class features of the Jack Of All Trades class.

    Weapon Proficiencies: The Jack Of All Trades is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as with all armors and shields.

    Trade Knowledge: At first level, and then at every even level after that, a Jack Of All Trades will pick an ability from one other base class of his level or lower. That ability is now his. For example, a 3rd level Jack Of All Trades picks the Flurry of Blows ability from the Monk class, the Sneak Attack ability from Rogue, and the Rage ability from Barbarian. He may now use all of those abilities, but limited as stated below.

    He may learn any ability from any class, but as he isn’t specializing in those skills, he is a little weaker at them then the base classes the abilities come from are. Any ability that gets more powerful every few levels he masters slower, adding one to the number of levels he must earn to make it more powerful. For example, a Rogue’s Sneak Attack gets more powerful every 2 levels (1d6 at 1st, 2d6 at 3rd, et cetera). For a Jack Of All Trades who chose Sneak Attack, it would get stronger every 3rd level (1d6 at 1st, 2d6 at 4th, et cetera). The Barbarian’s Rage gains an extra use per day every 3rd level (one use at 1st, 2 uses at 4th, et cetera). A Jack Of All Trades who chose Rage would gain another use every 4th level (one use at 1st, 2 uses at 5th, et cetera). Should a class ability require an earlier ability or abilities from a certain class, he must have chosen all of them before he may pick the later ability. Should an ability have an improved version later (example: Evasion and Improved Evasion, or Rage and Greater Rage) he must choose both of them; he does not gain the improved version automatically from leveling.

    A Jack Of All Trades may choose spellcasting as an ability using this, but his casting abilities are limited. He may not choose spellcasting from a class that casts spontaneously (Favored Soul, Sorcerer, or psionics of any type). He subtracts one from the number of spells per day per spell level he can cast, and they gain no bonus spells for high ability scores. So a Jack Of All Trades at 3rd level who chose Wizard spells for an ability would get three level 0 spells and one level 1 spell per day. A Jack Of All Trades must still have a high enough ability score in the appropriate stat before he may cast a spell. He must also spend an hour per caster type to prepare spells, so a 3rd level Jack Of All Trades who chose Cleric, Wizard and Druid spells would take 3 hours to prepare his spells for the day if he prepared all his spells, and would be able to cast three level 0 spells and one level 1 spell per day as a Wizard, three level 0 spells and one level 1 spell per day as a Cleric, and three level 0 spells and one level 1 spell per day as a Druid. A Jack Of All Trades gets domain spells and domain abilities as normal, but he must choose domains as a separate ability when he levels up. A Jack Of All Trades may not lose a spell to cast another spell, even if the caster class he chose could have. A Jack Of All Trades may not specialize in a school of magic if he chooses the Wizard class.

    A Jack Of All Trades must have seen the skill or power in action in order to select it. So in order to get rage he must have seen a Barbarian rage at least once, in order to get sneak attack he must have seen a Rogue sneak attack at least once, et cetera.

    Class Limitations: A Jack Of All Trades may never take a prestige class, nor learn any abilities from them. Prestige classes are far too specialized for a master of all trades. Should he take a level in a prestige class, he may never again gain a level in Jack Of All Trades.


    That's all. It's a very simple class, very flexible. Please comment and review!
    Last edited by Noctis Vigil; 2011-10-13 at 06:04 AM.

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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    So, if I were to choose spellcasting as a Wizard, for example, would I gain access to higher level spells every three levels? So, I'd have 1st level spells (technically) at 1st level, 2nd level spells at 4th, 3rd level spells at 7th, 4th level spells at 10th, 5th level spells at 13th, 6th level spells at 16th, and 7th level spells at 19th? Is that right?

    Regardless, I think this is just too powerful. You get a class feature every level, any one of which can be almost an entire class worth of stuff. By 3rd level you could have picked bonus feats, sneak attack, and Wizard casting. That's already WAY too much stuff that you have no business having and you still have 17 more levels of class features to steal!

    WAY too much. Needs toned down a whole lot.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2011-10-13 at 05:07 AM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    Hmm, perhaps make it first and every even level afterwords, like a Fighter's bonus feats?

    I can't quite figure out what you're asking about spell levels, although that might just be me being too tired.

    Added a clause at the end of Trade Knowledge to make it slightly less abusable.
    Last edited by Noctis Vigil; 2011-10-13 at 04:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    This is like a Factotum on steroids, Tier 2 easily (and I'm sure you could get it up to Tier 1 with enough abuse). I'll keep it bookmarked for a solo campaign, though. It seems like it could be a lot of fun there.
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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    I'm afraid I don't know the Factotum. Where can I find it?

    And I said it was abusable; I already knew that. My goal is to make it not totally broken. Wizard is abusable, but still usable. That's my goal for this guy. Original inspiration was a class that can fill whatever place in the group is needed, from backup healer to frontline warrior. I placed a ton of limits on him so he can't fill any of those places for long: He gets very few spells from each class, if you look, since he gets no bonus spells from high stats and less spells per day to start with; he gets less HP than a fighter to fill a frontline position; his saves are all average; skills...OK, I loaded him with skills, but it fits the job description; with proficiencies, I'm thinking of limiting him a little, maybe take away heavy armor proficiency and all but one martial weapon?

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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    I'm afraid I don't know the Factotum. Where can I find it?
    Oh, you've been missing out. It's in Dungeonscape.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    And I said it was abusable; I already knew that. My goal is to make it not totally broken.
    Then I think you've succeeded. At early levels it'll toss around a bit too much power, but by the time you hit levels 5-7, the Tier 1s will have cleared it and several of the Tier 2s will be moving on ahead. With sufficient abuse, I think it'll hit Tier 1 again, but again — that's why we call it abuse.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    Hmm. My goal was a solid tier 3 or low tier 2, so I guess I overshot on the power, but it's good to hear it works at least. I wanted a class that could keep up with most any party.

    Factotum looks...different. Not quite what I had in mind for this class, but certainly a good class.

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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quick question, how would this class work with psionics, incarnum, and other alternate magic systems?
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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    This class still seems totally broken, unless I'm missing something.

    For one thing, this class can steal spellcasting multiple times (again, unless I'm missing something) and while losing a spell level or two to specialize in two casting methods is horrible, this guy can get four casting methods (druid + cleric + wizard + wu jen) and that seems pretty darn ridiculous if you ask me.

    Adding on Eldritch Blast 7d6, Sneak Attack +7d6, Sudden Strike +7d6, Skirmish +4d6/+3, 7 bonus feats from copying a fighter (is this possible?), binding 3 vestiges of up to 5th level as a binder (soulbinding is listed as a class feature so it's technically fair game, I think. If not, I'd choose some spellthief abilities to steal spells with my sneak attack damage), and a bit of delayed wildshaping on top of that is a more than a little bit insane. I'm not even putting effort into optimization, here.

    Also, it is currently a bit unclear how this ability works with abilities that increase at irregular intervals (unlike uncanny dodge/improved uncanny dodge, for example, all bardic knowledge abilities are held in bardic knowledge just as all knight challenge abilities or archivist dark knowledge abilities are counted as singular class features).
    Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2011-11-23 at 05:03 PM.
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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    So.. could I, in theory, jump into Druid, and gain its animal companion?

    So my Jack looks like:

    {table=head] Level | Class | New Abilties
    1 | Druid | Animal Companion, First Level Feats
    [/table]
    Now, could I move on to grab Wizard?

    {table=head] Level | Class | New Abilties
    1 | Druid | Animal Companion, First Level Feats

    2 | Wizard | Spells per day, Second Level Feat
    [/table]

    Now, with Wizard under my belt, could I move on to... say, Fighter?


    {table=head] Level | Class | New Abilties
    1 | Druid | Animal Companion, First Level Feats

    2 | Wizard | Spells per day, Second Level Feat

    3| Fighter | Base Attack Bonus
    [/table]

    With a nice BAB, would Jack be able to take on another class?


    {table=head] Level | Class | New Abilties
    1 | Druid | Animal Companion, First Level Feats

    2 | Wizard | Spells per day, Second Level Feat

    3| Fighter | Base Attack Bonus

    4| Artificer | Weird Magic Items
    [/table]

    Or, if you wish, Factotum, for the ability to TURN INTO OTHER CLASSES.

    Do you see what I'm getting at? I now have good BAB (unless I read that completely wrong, though I'm not too sure), spells per day, an animal companion who advances with me (but technically isn't an ability that gets more powerful, thus unrestricted), and weird magic items?

    As you move on, Jack will only become more broken. Grab rage! Evasion! Slippery Mind! Mettle! Uncanny Dodge! all the great defensive and offensive things you could want.

    In short, even with the restrictions, the odd wording makes this the single most powerful class I've seen in ages. And with homebrew, that's saying a TON.
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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    On the flip side (a boost he could use), he should have something giving him a bonus to skills he hasn't trained (perhaps he can use his INT bonus instead of skill ranks, up to a maximum of his max skill ranks.)
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    Thumbs down Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    Poorly conceived, poorly balanced, & poorly written. Thumbs down. Please think this one out, look around for some balanced inspiration, & resubmit if there's anything left. Good luck, & I hope that your next brew turns out better.

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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    I can see a lot of merit in this, but you may want to straighten it out a bit more. I'd first recommend drawing up the standard progress table then expanding from there. Other things id be tempted to suggest are:

    -Abilities start progressing from the point you got them. For example if you pick sneak attack at level 8 you have 1d6 sneak attack at lvl 8, 2d6 at lvl 10, etc
    -Only one spellcasting kind (and cant stack the same kind)
    -Only one companion kind (Familiar, Animal Companion, Steed, etc)
    -A limitation like bard in that spellcasting cannot progress past a certain point
    -A lmitation in that certain abilities cannot be chosen in combination (like overlapping certain divine and arcane based abilities)
    -Abilities from certain base classes only (core + a few of your choosing)

    Another idea might be to organise abilities into tiers (Low, mid and High) then handing them out at regular intervals instead of allowing free reign for players to pick and choose their favourites. To get a higher tier ability you need to get the prior ones as qualification, eg to get improved evasion at mid (or high) you need evasion from the low tier.
    If you do this you may want to add spellcasting separately. The class can choose one of maybe three options:
    1: Spellcasting progression similar sorceror (but prepared)
    2: Spellcasting progression similar to bard (but prepared) and a few bonus feats to choose from
    3: No spellcasting, an increase to full BAB and a few more bonus feats then option 2.


    Sorry if it seems like im hijacking your idea, i just dont want to see you give up on an idea that many people seem so stumped on, especially if its your first Homebrew (mine is still my pride and joy).
    Last edited by Kane0; 2011-11-23 at 11:14 PM.

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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    Well. I had written this one off as a finished thread. I wasn't expecting a new wave of "you suck"s in it. I'll just cover some basics from the posts above. Firstly, concerning casting:

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    A Jack Of All Trades may choose spellcasting as an ability using this, but his casting abilities are limited. He may not choose spellcasting from a class that casts spontaneously (Favored Soul, Sorcerer, or psionics of any type).
    This covers any spontaneous casting: Sorcerer, Favored Soul, Psionics, Eldritch Blast, et cetera. Spellthief and Binder are also magic you don't have to learn, so they'd be out too. I thought Wu Jen was an innate magic too, but I could be wrong. If necessary, I can make a whole list of everything banned or allowed, but it would be easier to just make a short list of classes he could get casting from.

    SamBurke, BAB isn't a class ability. Try again. You also don't gain the whole level, just one ability, so you'd be missing some of those feats you have listed. So sure, take an animal companion, but that's all you get that level. Likewise, you could pick a Fighter feat, but you only get one, not one at every other level (you get the feat, not the progression of feats). Also, he only gets an ability at first then every even numbered level, not every level, so a total of 11 other abilities at 20th level.

    And it is stated how things that level irregularly increase, Realms of Chaos: Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge would be two levels of used abilities, and you'd have to qualify for them at at least the lowest level another class would get them at in a book.

    I should probably just limit him to abilities from the PHB; that would solve almost every complaint the class has gotten. Thoughts?

    This does need a table, yes. I really should add one. The writing needs work as well. I probably would if I thought fixing the class was worth it, but I honestly don't feel like rewriting all the other class abilities in the PHB and beyond just to balance this guy, or making a spellcasting table for each class he could get casting from, or making lists of the "balanced" abilities he's allowed or not. It's too much work with the amount of negative response he got. I was new to homebrewing and wanted a class that could fill any roll. He was the resulting experiment. He failed. If you guys think he's worth it, tell me and I'll work on updating him (after Black Friday weekend; I doubt I'll have time till then at the earliest).

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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    Why no spontaneous magic, exactly?
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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    The logic behind that was that he can only gain magic types that can be learned, not that are an innate part of you. He can learn almost anything, but he can't actually be anything.

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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    Wu Jen use a spellbook. They are not innate casters.

    Skills- The Jack of All Trades isn't quite unique in this respect, as the factotum class (the one you haven't heard of) has all skills as class skills as well.

    Trade Knowledge:

    Eldritch Blast is not a spontaneous spellcasting ability. It is a supernatural ability that was turned into a spell-like ability for balance's sake, even though it is nothing like a spell-like ability (because generally speaking, spell-like abilities are exact copies of spells)

    Banning the invocations would be acceptable, but I don't see why you would want to ban a subpar ability, especially seeing as you're lowering its already weak progression rate.

    I don't see why you're giving him divine casting. Divine casting isn't something that can be studied (as a druid). It can arguably be studied as a cleric (and definitely as an archivist) but you still can't get away from that whole "I ask my god for power, I don't know how to do it myself" part. And really, I don't even know how rangers do it. Paladins definitely don't study, though.

    The animal companion thing is an issue. This isn't really because of your class, it's because animal companions are broken to begin with.

    With the lowered progression, wildshape access is fine (especially considering you have to have seen it happen, therefore you either have to have fought a druid and lived [when he was wildshaping] or you have a druid in your party [at which point, even if you get wildshape he's still going to be doing it better])

    You should also add in a clause about alignment requirements (Don't want a Chaotic Evil Jack of All Trades picking up Smite Evil).

    By banning innate casting, you have also removed the detect magic ability of the spellthief, the detect evil, special mount and remove disease abilities of the paladin, and the fascinate, suggestion, mass suggestion and song of freedom abilities of the bard. I'm just listing a few, so you can understand what you're cutting off here.

    Still, the class is pretty cool, though the limited progression makes dead levels kind of boring. (I suggest adding some skill-boosting at the odd levels)
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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    It might be better if you could give a example of a character of let's say level 5-10 so that we con see what the character can do, will be easier to comment after that...

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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    I think this is just a conceptually poor idea. Trying to make a "balanced" class where the ability is literally just "grab any ability you want from base classes, but make it weaker in some way" just seems kind of silly. Factotum already does this kind of thing better (or at least, very well), so I don't see what this really accomplishes that's all that unique.

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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by PEACH View Post
    I think this is just a conceptually poor idea. Trying to make a "balanced" class where the ability is literally just "grab any ability you want from base classes, but make it weaker in some way" just seems kind of silly. Factotum already does this kind of thing better (or at least, very well), so I don't see what this really accomplishes that's all that unique.
    Correction: Factotum 19 does this, and it does this for 3 abilities.

    Meanwhile, this class actually has the theme set around copying it from level 1. Much more likely to see play.
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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Correction: Factotum 19 does this, and it does this for 3 abilities.

    Meanwhile, this class actually has the theme set around copying it from level 1. Much more likely to see play.
    I meant the concept of "jack of all trades." The way this goes about that is just a really poor way of doing it compared to how the Factotum does things.

    Of course Factotum doesn't do better at purely mimicking class features, if it did, it would be broken to all hell. I'm not certain I'd call this "more likely to see play", since it's a mechanical nightmare to deal with and likely quite easy to break.
    Last edited by PEACH; 2011-11-25 at 09:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    I don't follow. This class all class skills, just like the factotum, with more skill points than the factotum.

    It's proficient with simple and martial weapons, just like a factotum.

    It's proficient with all armor, and with shields, while the factotum only gets light armor and shields.

    So far, the jack of all trades is more versatile on two accounts.

    It gains a new class feature with automatic progression permanently at 1st level and every even level afterwards. This is comparable to the factotum's Lays on Hands ability, and his Cunning I-Steal-Your-Class-Feature ability, except the jack of all trades can even grab supernatural class features such as a dragonfire adept's breath weapon, a paladin's smite evil, or a hexblade's curse. (or Wild Shape, which has been shown to push certain d8 junk classes up a tier all on its own)

    The factotum receives Arcane Dilettante, which is a very nice class feature, but still doesn't make you a "jack of all trades". It makes you a wizard-lite.

    I can see how you think that the factotum is better, but I feel the two classes are pretty equally versatile (if the jack of all trades grabs spellcasting)
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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    I said the Factotum does it better, and that this was a conceptually poor idea. Telling me that this is stronger than Factotum does not change that. I recognize that this is powerful. In fact, it's likely broken. That is why the Factotum is a better Jack of all Trades: Because it's a reasonably balanced (T3) character that can do most anything to some extent. The fact that it doesn't have the same strength as the class that can get a slightly weakened version of the core ability of 11 other classes is not surprising in the slightest.

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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    As stated, this class (along with most my other classes posted on these forums) is sitting in a "you done !@#$ed it up, now fix it" folder on my PC. Realistically, though, I don't see it ever not being tier 1. While not a bad thing, it seems a little too tier 1, and I'll be trying to overhaul it some to fix it. I'll most likely be limiting him strictly to abilities out of the PHB, only limited Wizard casting, and no innate or divine powers. Unfortunately, my time for homebrew is pretty limited by work/holidays, so I can't say when this update will happen, just that it will.

    PEACH, thank you for your comments; I know the class is broken. At the time I wrote it, I had never heard of the Factotum, and even now that I've seen it I think the Factotum makes a truly poor jack of all trades. My goal in this was someone who could truly fill any party roll, though not necessarily all of them at once. I have several ideas for how to fix the class, though I doubt any of them will be "original" enough to please you. If you have suggestions for how to do this in an "original" way, I'm all ears, but if all you have to say is "yer doin it rong", please stop; I know I screwed this up. It was quite literally my very first attempt at homebrew, done before I even knew there were people that did homebrew out there; at the time, I thought I was doing something new, and only had maybe a dozen 3.5 books. I had no more than a few hours of playtime under my belt at the time, and no GMing experience. I have more playing experience, lots of GMing experience, far more books, a fair bit of hindsight, and a whole homebrew community to get critique from now, and can modify the class accordingly.

    NeoSeraphi, thank you for your comments and suggestions; I'll take that into account when I work on it (though I think we'll have to agree to disagree about the usefulness of animal companions). One of my ideas is to just give him limited access to one type of casting of his choice (though invocations are still right out); thoughts on this?

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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    The problem is, as I said, that the concept of "A jack of all trades that works by copying other class features, but weaker" is already poor design right there. I cannot criticize it further because A: that's all there is to the class, and B: I cannot see an easy way to make that type of feature work.

    While I am all for making reasonable suggested changes to classes I criticize, I cannot entirely overhaul a class; doing so requires much more of my time and requires me to design a class that functions the way you want it to in a balanced way, which is not something I believe I can do. Things like "The save DC on that is non standard, maybe bring it in line with other abilities" or "Maybe give the class some more mobility options" are the type of advice I can give. Radically rewriting an entire class is not.

    I seek to give people valid advice on their homebrew, and unfortunately, the best advice I can give you on this one is "Straight up copying class abilities is conceptually poor. You need to try to write a jack of all trades from an entirely different perspective." I truly wish that I could say I saw an easy way to make this balanced, but stating anything other than my actual opinion would be doing you a disservice.
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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    I didn't ask you to overhaul the class for me; that would be a disservice to you. Thank you for at least being honest about the class (and polite at the same time). May I at least ask you why you think copying abilities is poor conceptually?

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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    To be honest, if you want a Jack-of-All-Trades who can fill any role, just not all of them at once, giving him 8+Int skill points and all skills as class skills is a fantastic starting point.

    So I'm going to give you advice on this new class and maybe help you figure it out.

    For starters, you should give him Trapfinding. This isn't trying to step on the rogue or anything, it's just that WotC decided to balance the Disable Device skill by turning most of its uses into a class feature, for some strange reason. Every class WotC has ever released that had Disable Device as a class skill also had trapfinding as a class feature. (Ninja, spellthief, scout [post-errata], rogue, beguiler, factotum)

    3/4 BAB and all simple and martial weapon proficiency is another good thing. A jack-of-all-trades should be able to pick up a weapon and use it, no problems.

    A useful little ability that's kind of flavorful could be like "Improved Tools", where the penalty for using improvised tools on skill checks that require them (such as Open Lock and Disable Device) disappear, while correct tools provide a +2 circumstance bonus to the check, and masterwork tools provide a +4 bonus.

    Something else that would help is the bardic knack ability (PHB II)- Basically, you get a bonus on untrained skills equal to half your class level, so even when you've never learned how to do something, you still have an innate gift for doing it. This really helps set a skill-monkey class above others, and is necessary for his schtick.

    Perhaps once every 3 levels you could let the jack of all trades choose a skill that he has max ranks in, and allow him to take 10 on that skill check in any situation.

    The Hide in Plain Sight ability, as well as the ability to retain your Dexterity modifier while using the Climb skill, and the inability to accidentally break a lock when you fail the Open Lock skill would all be appreciated.

    Give him an ability that allows him to open a door that has been sealed with arcane lock, just adding +5 or so to the Open Lock DC. Spellcasters have enough auto-win spells, they don't need to make people auto-fail outside of combat too.

    The ability to use the Spring Attack feat (which you would grant as a bonus feat) while Tumbling would be awesome, and say, if your Tumble check exceeds their Sense Motive + their BAB (as if you were Feinting in Combat) they are denied their Dex mod to AC against your Tumble attack.

    Bonus feats are necessary, especially bonus feats which grant additional uses of skills. Some suggestions for your list would be - Improved Feint, Goad, Giantbane, Underfoot Combat, Skill Focus, Track.

    Hope all of this helps!
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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    I'm forced to agree that this isn't going to work as written, although it's a pretty good first effort at a very difficult concept to properly implement. And to be fair, a lot of the brokenness comes from emulating broken abilities. Also worth noting that if it wasn't for Wildshape making physical stats irrelevant, he'd have insane MAD.

    My suggestion would be that, rather than have abilities automatically improving after you acquired them, require the player to spend more "levels" (if that makes sense) to improve them. For example, you can pick the Barbarian's rage at first level, but if you want to rage 2/day, you need to pick it up at 4th level as well. You can grab wizard spellcasting (without bonus spells) at level 1, but if you want second level spells, you have to take it again at 4th level. That should cut out a fair amount of abuse, while not requiring too much rewriting. Better, it helps reinforce the dilettante nature of the class, as you can spend a substantial amount of your class features emulating, say, spellcasting and wind up as little more than a poor copy of the wizard.

    I also direct you to FM Arthur's Chameleon base class, which, if I remember, was received pretty well. It's a similar jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none idea, but the main idea there is that he can only emulate a limited number of rolls at a time (only 1, IIRC, until quite high levels, with a limited ability to change during the day).
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    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    How about access to any feat as bonus feats? This would let him access Fighter feats, racial feats, the Heritage feats, et cetera, meaning he could grab a little metamagic, a little Fighter, et cetera. He'd still need to meet most prerequisites (like "has spellcasting" for the Sorcerer's Heritage feats), but this would make him pretty versatile.

    As for spells, I plan to give him spellcasting as a Wizard -1 spell per level of spell he can cast, and spells known as a Sorcerer +2 spells per level he knows. These are all spells he's learned (treat them as cast like a Wizard's, but known like a Sorcerer's), but they may be taken from any divine or arcane spell list. BUT. Arcane spells will be cast using Int, divine spells will be cast using Wis, and bonus spells will be based off Cha. That's right: he has three caster stats, depending on what spells you give him.

    Thoughts on these?

    And can someone tell me what MAD actually stands for? I see it all over these forums. We need a frackin' stickied forum dictionary thread...

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    Default Re: Jack Of All Trades (3.5 Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    How about access to any feat as bonus feats? This would let him access Fighter feats, racial feats, the Heritage feats, et cetera, meaning he could grab a little metamagic, a little Fighter, et cetera. He'd still need to meet most prerequisites (like "has spellcasting" for the Sorcerer's Heritage feats), but this would make him pretty versatile.
    Hmmm...

    As for spells, I plan to give him spellcasting as a Wizard -1 spell per level of spell he can cast, and spells known as a Sorcerer +2 spells per level he knows. These are all spells he's learned (treat them as cast like a Wizard's, but known like a Sorcerer's), but they may be taken from any divine or arcane spell list. BUT. Arcane spells will be cast using Int, divine spells will be cast using Wis, and bonus spells will be based off Cha. That's right: he has three caster stats, depending on what spells you give him.

    Thoughts on these?
    Heh. Bonus feats from any list, spells from any spell list...and the ability to copy class features...

    Something tells me you need to carefully reread page 77 of your copy of Unearthed Arcana (The Spellcaster). Is that what you're looking for?

    And can someone tell me what MAD actually stands for? I see it all over these forums. We need a frackin' stickied forum dictionary thread...
    Multiple Ability (Score) Dependency. Opposes SAD, or Single Ability Dependency.

    MAD is typical for combat classes where the class features are based off of some mental stat as an attempt to make the class as a whole more flavorful or interesting. The reason for this is you need a high mental stat to use your class features, but you also need high Strength and Constitution since you'll be going into battle, and, depending on the level of armor you can wear, a high Dexterity as well.

    The poster boy for MAD is the monk, who needs Strength to hit and deal damage (especially with 3/4 BAB and a -2 penalty from Flurry of Blows), Dex for AC (with no armor), Con to stay alive with no armor and d8 HD, Wis to use his class features and boost his AC, Int for skill points and Cha for Diplomacy.

    You can arguably drop Int and Cha. That still leaves you with 4 stats that you need to keep high, as opposed to the Int-focused wizard, who is a classic example of SAD.
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