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    Default Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    Necromantic Count


    [I]"Rise! Rise to serve me!" Lillith Delvakor Necromantic Countess[/B]

    There are few necromancers who have the power to lead an army of unstoppable minions, even less who can fire blasts of negative energy along with it. The Necromantic Count can do any of these things, and do it to such an extent that she forges a connection to the negative energy plane.

    Entry Requirements
    Skills: Knowledge(Arcana) 13, Knowledge(Religion) 13
    Feat: Spell Focus(Necromancy), Great Fortitude
    Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 5th level necromancy spells.
    Alignment: Must be Non-Good.
    Special: Must have killed a good creature with a necromancy spell.

    Hit Die: d4
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Spellcasting

    1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Rebuke Undead|

    2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Dread Army|+1 level of existing Spellcasting class

    3rd|+1|+1|+2|+3|Channel the Negative| +1 level of existing Spellcasting class

    4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Potency| +1 level of existing Spellcasting class

    5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Check Again|+1 level of existing Spellcasting class

    6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Magical Bypass|+1 level of existing Spellcasting class

    7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Saved| +1 level of existing Spellcasting class

    8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|Black is my Heart|+1 level of existing Spellcasting class

    9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|Undead Buffer| +1 level of existing Spellcasting class

    10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|From the Coffin to Enslave| [/table]
    Class skills (4 + Int Modifier): Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge(Any), Spellcraft;

    Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: You gain no new proficiencies with weapons, armor, or shields.

    Spells per Day/Spells Known:
    When a new Necromantic Count level is gained(except 1 and 10), the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class in which he could cast 5th-level spells before he added the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one spellcasting class in which he could cast 5th-level spells before he became a Necromantic Count, he must decide to which class he adds each level of Necromantic Count for the purpose of determining spells per day.

    Rebuke Undead: A Necromantic Count gains rebuking as an evil cleric of her Necromantic Count level. If she already has rebuking, level in this prestige class stack with the levels that gave her rebuking.

    Dread Army (Sp): The Necromantic Count has learned how to raise an army of undead. At 2nd level she gains the ability to use Animate Dead spell as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to her own 2/day.

    Channel the Negative (Su): At 3rd level the Necromantic Count's connection to the negative energy plane allows her to drain more power than usual. She can have any of her spells do negative energy damage instead of normal energy damage..

    At 6th level she gains an additional use for this ability. Anytime a living creature is affected by a Necromantic Count's negative energy spells she heals half the amount of damage.

    Potency (Su): A Necromantic Count of 4th level gains half of her levels rounded up in Necromantic Count as a profane bonus to save DCs for her necromancy spells.

    Check Again (Su): Whenever a Necromantic Count of 5th level fails to affect a target with a necromancy spell because the target succeeded it's saving throw or because of spell resistance, the target is instantly dealt 5d6 points of negative energy damage.

    Magical Bypass (Ex): A Necromantic Count of 6th level draws some of her magic from the negative energy plane. She can cast any of her necromancy spells in a place that would normally suppres her magic, such as an anti-magic field or a dead magic zone. To succeed this requires a Spellcraft and Knowledge(The planes) Check equal to 25 + Spell Level. If one check succeeds but the other fails only half of the spell takes effect(Half damage/half death/range and duration halved/etc.)

    As a down-side any spell that would limit traveling to the negative energy plane imposes a -10 penalty to the Necromantic Count's caster level.

    Saved (EX): A Necromantic Count of 7th level has trained her undead to such an extent, that they gain a profane bonus on their saves equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count as long as they are within her line of sight.

    Black is my Heart (Su): At 8th level the Necromantic Count's very essence has been consumed by darkness. She gains a profane bonus to saves and armor class equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count.

    Undead Buffer (Ex): Any undead created by a Necromantic Count of 9th level gain a bonus to charisma equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count and bonus hit points equal to the undead's charisma modifier times their hit dice.

    Vampiric Transformation: When reaching 10th level a Necromantic Count becomes a vampire and gains the [Evil] subtype. She gains the benefit of her Undead Buffer ability. She gains no level adjustment for becoming one.

    ----

    My second homebrew attempt on this forum.

    Hope you guys like it, and PEACH only please.

    Oh and just by the way this isn't a female only class I only used a female pic, and called her Lillith, and used she and her numerous times
    Last edited by Wavelab; 2011-10-19 at 02:26 PM.
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    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    The idea is sound, although I feel like it may be too strong. I'll go through ability by ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wavelab View Post
    Spellcasting: At each level the Necromantic Count gains spellcasting as if she had gained a level in the class that he belonged to before taking this class. She does not however gain any other benefits.
    The wording here is somewhat vague- what exactly "spellcasting" is can be argued, as can the meaning of "no other benefits." Perhaps more importantly, it would appear that if she had multiple spellcasting classes before entering this PrC, she can advance all of them.

    Familiar: At first level the Necromantic Count gains a familiar. If she already has a familiar it is lost. The familiar can be either a cat, a raven, a bat or a bunny. Her entire ECL is used to determine his familiar's abilities.
    Does she take the experience penalty as if her familiar died? And if it's just being replaced with a new familiar from a slightly reduced list, what's the point of this ability? I'm also not to sure of how this fits into the flavor of the class. Maybe if her familiar became a zombie or something...

    Rebuke Undead: A Necromantic Count gains rebuking as an evil cleric of her level. If she already has rebuking, level in this prestige class stack with the levels that gave her rebuking.
    Ok, looks good.

    Dread Army (Sp): The Necromantic Count has learned how to raise an army of undead. At 2nd level she gains the ability to use Animate Dread Warrior 2/day. In addition her dread warriors don't have a penalty to int or wisdom.
    Where does Animate Dread Warrior come from? It's not in core, and I don't recognize the spell... it would probably be good to provide a source, or better yet, modify the ability so that it doesn't require non-core material to use.

    Channel the Negative (Su): At 3rd level the Necromantic Count's connection to the negative energy plane allows her to drain more power than usual. She can have any of her spells do negative energy damage instead. Also anytime a living creature is affected by a Necromantic Count's negative energy spells she heals half the ammount of damage.
    This... is really good. Maybe split it up into two abilities.

    Potency: A Necromantic Count of 4th level gains her levels in Necromantic Count as a bonus to save DCs and Caster Level for her necromancy spells.
    This is even better. You are giving a ridiculously huge bonus to her specialty here. I would break this up into a flat bonus that slowly scales over the course of the class- a total of +2 or +3 is still going to be very good.

    Check Again (Su): Whenever a Necromantic Count of 5th level fails to affect a target with a necromancy spell because the target succeeded it's saving throw or because of spell resistance, the target is instantly affected by the same spell again.
    ANOTHER incredibly powerful ability. Give it a small daily limit, perhaps.

    Magical Bypass (Ex): A Necromantic Count of 6th level draws some of her magic from the negative energy plane instead of the weave. She can cast any of her necromancy spells in a place that would normally suppres her magic, such as an anti-magic field or a dead magic zone.
    Cool thematic thingie. Might I suggest that Dimensional Anchor, Dimensional Lock and similar spells have a similar anti-magic affect on the Count?

    Saved (EX): A Necromantic Count of 7th level has trained her undead to such an extent, that they gain bonuses on their saves equal to her levels in Necromantic Count.
    This is pretty strong as well, although not on the level of previous abilities. Still, you might want to provide some limits, like having the ability only apply when the undead are within 30 feet of her. Also, clarify what type of bonus this is.

    Black is my Heart (Su): At 8th level the Necromantic Count's very essence has been consumed by darkness. She gains a bonus to saves and armor class equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count.
    Only half the class level makes this more reasonable. It's even more important to clarify what type of bonuses these are, though.

    Undead Buffer (Ex): Any undead created by a Necromantic Count of 9th level have the unholy toughness special ability and a bonus to charisma equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count.
    What is the Unholy Toughness ability?

    From the Coffin to Enslave: When reaching 10th level a Necromantic Count becomes a vampire. She gains the benefit of her Undead Buffer ability. She gains no level adjustment for becoming one, and also takes no damage from sunlight.
    Solid capstone, although I'd lose the bit about no damage from sunlight, if only to avoid Twilight jokes. Besides, at this high a level, magically avoiding said damage should be trivial.

    You also forgot to include class skills, and have a few minor formatting errors above the table.

    Hope this was helpful.
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    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    Alright followed your advice and changed it.

    Thanks.

    Anybody want to chip in?
    Last edited by Wavelab; 2011-10-15 at 02:17 PM.
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    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    Minor note: the "Weave" is a Forgotten Realms only interpretation of magic. You may want to rewrite that flavor text so that it is more generic. Maybe just say that their magic is supplied by the negative energy plane.

    "From the Coffin to Enslave" is a weird title. "Enslave" is a verb.

    Dread Army- caster level of the spell-like ability should probably be made explicit. I presume it at character level?

    Potency should have the bonus type clarified and the nature of the effect (as either "ex" or "su") specified. That ability also looks really concerning. A lot of the nastier necromancy spells have as their primary weakness that they give saves. A +5 or +6 bonus to saves is a lot.

    Whenever a Necromantic Count of 5th level fails to affect a target with a necromancy spell because the target succeeded it's saving throw or because of spell resistance, the target is instantly affected by the same spell again. This ability can be used 3+charisma modifier times per day.
    Ok. This with potency together is very powerful. Also this needs better wording. It is unclear if they choose to use the Check Again ability when they first cast the spell or when the spell's save has been passed.





    I'm slightly concerned that this class
    My homebrew:

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    Completed:
    ToB disciplines:

    The Narrow Bridge
    The Broken Blade

    Prestige classess:
    Disciple of Karsus -PrC for Karsites.
    The Seekers of Lost Swords and the Preserver of Future Blades Two interelated Tome of Battle Prcs,
    Master of the Hidden Seal - Binder/Divine hybrid
    Knight of the Grave- Necromancy using Gish



    Worthwhile links:

    Age of Warriors

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    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    Coming from the coffin to enslave. That's a proper use of a verb.

    This class is supposed to give necromancers a bonus since they kind of get the short stick.

    I agree that some of the stuff might be a little more suited to high-op players but that's why I said PEACH.
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    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    That's looking better. It's still quite powerful, particularly Potency, Check Again, and Undead Buffer, but not nearly as much as before. Probably not too ridiculous, given the general power of spellcasters at high levels.

    I'd continue drop Potency to half her Necromatic Count class level (among other things, it's easier to calculate). Undead Buffer should, I feel like, be based on the hit die of the Undead, not that of the Count. Otherwise, you could spend 25gp on a 1-HD zombie with hundreds* of bonus HD.

    Other than that, though, looking good.


    *A sorcerer 10/NC 10 could easily have a +10 Charisma modifier. Even at that level, 200 bonus hit points is a LOT.

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    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    As a note, this kinda looks like a stronger version of a Pale Master. The lack of lost caster levels and very easy to meet requirements makes this a no brainer for most Necromancer characters... that's an issue. It should cost SOMETHING to be in this class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wavelab View Post
    Dread Army (Sp): The Necromantic Count has learned how to raise an army of undead. At 2nd level she gains the ability to use Animate Dead spell as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to her own 2/day.
    Basically, this is just the Pale Master ability, except you don't lose class levels to get it.

    Channel the Negative (Su): At 3rd level the Necromantic Count's connection to the negative energy plane allows her to drain more power than usual. She can have any of her spells do negative energy damage instead.

    At 6th level she gains an additional use for this ability. Anytime a living creature is affected by a Necromantic Count's negative energy spells she heals half the amount of damage.
    You mention additional uses of this ability, but never set a limit to it in the first place. Is this once per day? As for that second ability, if it's use/day limited it's okay. Otherwise, wide area damage spells could function as very potent healing... I could see this being used with Snowcasting and any wide area long duration spell to provide all day rather strong healing (especially if the Countess is Tomb Tainted or undead).

    Potency (Su): A Necromantic Count of 4th level gains 3/4 of her levels rounded up in Necromantic Count as a profane bonus to save DCs for her necromancy spells.
    Really powerful on a class that doesn't lose spellcasting. The eventual +7 to save DCs on a school full of save or lose spells is REALLY strong.

    Check Again (Su): Whenever a Necromantic Count of 5th level fails to affect a target with a necromancy spell because the target succeeded it's saving throw or because of spell resistance, the target is instantly affected by the same spell again. She chooses to use this affect after the dice have been rollen. This ability can be used 3+charisma modifier times per day.
    Combined with the last ability, this basically means you can one shot TKO anything. Also, you've allowed this ability to be used multiple times in a row, as written. These two abilities are way too strong, especially when combined with AoE effects that could one shot an encounter.

    Magical Bypass (Ex): A Necromantic Count of 6th level draws some of her magic from the negative energy plane. She can cast any of her necromancy spells in a place that would normally suppres her magic, such as an anti-magic field or a dead magic zone. To succeed this requires a Spellcraft Check equal to 25 + Spell Level.

    As a down-side any spell that would limit traveling to the negative energy plane imposes a -5 penalty to the Necromantic Count's caster level.
    The latter effect would be very rare, while the former effect lets your count run around in an Antimagic Field generated by an Antimagic Torque or something all day long. That's insane.

    Saved (EX): A Necromantic Count of 7th level has trained her undead to such an extent, that they gain a profane bonus on their saves equal to her levels in Necromantic Count as long as they are within her line of sight.
    That's a bit much, don't you think? Now she's running around in antimagic fields with undead that can't be killed through save or dies (and who probably have insane hit points, because she's decent as a Necromancer). Rather unstoppable.

    Black is my Heart (Su): At 8th level the Necromantic Count's very essence has been consumed by darkness. She gains a profane bonus to saves and armor class equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count.
    ...the AC doesn't matter much. The saves are potent.

    Undead Buffer (Ex): Any undead created by a Necromantic Count of 9th level gain bonus hit points equal to the Necromantic Count's charisma modifier times her hit dice and a bonus to charisma equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count.
    Oh dear lord. Okay, so figure a Dread Necromancer entering this class. With Corpsecrafter and a Desecrated Altar, plus his first level ability, he's already making undead with D12+6 HP/HD. Figure by this level a Cha of 30. Cast Plague of Undead (which you have at this level) to raise some 40HD Zombies (because why not), and she's got 19HD (190 extra hp). So 910 hit points... for the basic troopers. And the +5 Charisma? When combined with Animate Dread Warrior to raise a Sorcerer or something that's going to be a bit much... not to mention the fact that she can turn herself undead by various means for a free +4/+5 Charisma.

    From the Coffin to Enslave: When reaching 10th level a Necromantic Count becomes a vampire. She gains the benefit of her Undead Buffer ability. She gains no level adjustment for becoming one.
    Ah, so it's automatic. Factor in Corpse Crafter, and now she's a crazy tank with insane hitpoints (with 20HD and 30Cha, she's going to have 450 hit points).

    ...definitely too strong. You give up only a feat and become god like. Why would a Dread Necromancer NOT take this class? Balance it against the Pale Master PrC and you'll get something reasonable.

    JaronK

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    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wavelab View Post
    Coming from the coffin to enslave. That's a proper use of a verb.
    Is this in fact a Cradle of Filth reference (i.e. "From the cradle to enslave")?

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    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    Oh. I see. I misparsed the sentence, interpreting "to" as a preposition. Gotcha. Other issues still hold. I'm not worried about it being stronger than the Pale Master since that class is on the weak side, but this may still be too strong.
    My homebrew:

    Spoiler
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    Completed:
    ToB disciplines:

    The Narrow Bridge
    The Broken Blade

    Prestige classess:
    Disciple of Karsus -PrC for Karsites.
    The Seekers of Lost Swords and the Preserver of Future Blades Two interelated Tome of Battle Prcs,
    Master of the Hidden Seal - Binder/Divine hybrid
    Knight of the Grave- Necromancy using Gish



    Worthwhile links:

    Age of Warriors

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    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    Vone zombie! Two zombies! Three zombies! Ah-ah-ah! *krack-a-thoom*

    ...Okay, now that that's out of the way, let's analyze. It's a full-casting, 10-level PrC that can't be entered before 10th level; I like the idea of having a high-level PrC like an Archmage that spreads abilities out more. It's got fairly lax prerequisites (effectively two feats) and full casting, though, so its abilities shouldn't be too powerful. We're not going for IotSV, here.

    Rebuke Undead is nice, although your pool won't be big enough to be very relevant if you enter as an arcane caster that's not a dread necromancer.

    Dread Army is just a 3rd level spell twice per day. It's nice in that you don't have to burn spell slots to get some skeletal minions, but at that level it's nothing really devastating. Nice to have.

    Channel the Negative is... a bit powerful. Giving all your spells, ever, the ability to heal your minions instead of hurt them and making them nigh-unresistable (since if they're immune, they're probably undead and therefore boned anyway) is kind of strong, even at that level. (Heh. Boned.)

    Potency is save DC boosting. It's kind of awkward and a little much, actually; I'd tone it down to just 1/2 class level to DCs.

    Check Again is pretty powerful, and doesn't really fit the class's theme.

    Magical Bypass is way, WAY too powerful. DC 25+spell level is nothing at this point; there's a reason Initiate of Mystra and AMF not penetrating veils is broken.

    Saved is also a little much. Lower it to 1/2 class level.

    Black is My Heart is fine.

    Undead Buffer's adding CHA to the minions makes no friggin' sense. The rest is just bonus HP; they're already serviceable meat shields.

    From the Coffin to Enslave has a stupid name. The ability can only be gotten at 20th level or later, so who cares about LA? It's fine.

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    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    I was listening to Cradle at the time so yes. Yes it is.

    I added great fortitude to the requirements which is something most undead should have anyway.

    I changed most of the abilities too.
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    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    One Major thing, a sidenote, and some of my trademark, slightly egocentric wiki-pedia like cross-indexing:

    Major thing:
    This class doesn't have enough drawbacks to it. 10/10 casting and enough goodies to be worth AT LEAST 4 feats(2 to "pay you back" for the 2 you invested, and 2 for the ones you get as a wizard at 15th and 20th levels). Specifically I am seeing:
    1. Greater Spell Focus[Necromancy]
    2. a better-than-a-feat Energy Substitution[Negative Energy]
    3. a better-than-a-feat Sudden Energy Substitution[Negative Energy]

    This means that there is basically NO reason not to take this class over straight Wizard for any caster with even a mild interest in Necromancy. Even a GOOD aligned character who refuses to create undead gets enough side benefits from it to take it to level 9. Vampiric Disintegrates anyone? +4 to all saves and AC in a form that stacks with most other sources of such?
    Granted you are at -5 caster level if someone lands a Dimensional Anchor on you, but by the time you get this, you are 16th level and probably so is the party cleric which means that for a measly 4th level slot he can make you immune to that spell and three others.

    In short, I would probably drop this to 8/10 casting.


    Sidenote:
    For clarity I would reverse the order of the benefits you list for Undead Buffer to read "Any undead created by a Necromantic Count of 9th level gain a bonus to charisma equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count and bonus hit points equal to the undead's charisma modifier times their hit dice." I was almost going to say that this reduced the hit-points of most mindless undead until I reread and noticed that second clause.


    Wiki-pedia like cross-indexing:
    NOT MINE:
    Corpse Crafting

    MINE:
    Organ undead:
    Spoiler
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    How to get a bunch of Undead out of one corpse:
    Corpse Ripper: A spell that simplifies the creation of these.

    Skulking Bladders (with attached kidneys) CURRENTLY BARELY BEGUN CONSTRUCTION.
    (Also have future plans for slithering livers (Con Damage) and maybe a Muscle Mass (Strength Damage.)


    Sinister Spinal Cord
    : Paralysis followed it wrapping around the victim's throat to attempt a slow strangulation.

    Zooming Brain: Fly past on barely controlled course damaging all mental abilities for a brief duration.

    Fat Glob: Slow, weak, but LOTS of HD, and a fatigue effect if it hits.

    Rolling Eyeball: Scouts, spies, and roving patrols. Zero offensive capabilities unless taken from something with a gaze attack or eye-rays.

    Floating Lungs: (based around the Shout spell). Feel free to suggest a better name...

    Hopping Stomach: Spits acid. (Note to self: Remake this thread so I can add Acid Splash as an option for sufficiently small ones).

    Gut Snake: Undead intestines that fight with constriction, filth, and odor. Comment HERE.

    Empty Skin: Macabre, but not always aggressive. Freak your characters/players out without a single die rolled... Intelligent servants for the necromancer just starting to come into his true power.

    Dark Hearts: Literally pulsing with negative energy these repair the undead near them, and damage the living.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2011-10-23 at 04:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    Alright I changed it to 8/10 casting. Added an additional requirement and added that he gains the evil subtype at level 10.

    Also I really like the corpsecrafter system. I haven't really checked the other stuff yet since I'm a little busy but it looks good too.
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    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    Make it nongood. Dread Necromancers just have to be nongood and it's no fun if you're obligated to be evil.

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    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    Alright added the Nongood requirement.

    I'm keeping the evil subtype since there isn't a [non good] subtype.
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    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    Current version apparently has the non-good requirement but also has the must be evil requirement still in the next line.
    My homebrew:

    Spoiler
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    Completed:
    ToB disciplines:

    The Narrow Bridge
    The Broken Blade

    Prestige classess:
    Disciple of Karsus -PrC for Karsites.
    The Seekers of Lost Swords and the Preserver of Future Blades Two interelated Tome of Battle Prcs,
    Master of the Hidden Seal - Binder/Divine hybrid
    Knight of the Grave- Necromancy using Gish



    Worthwhile links:

    Age of Warriors

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
    Dread Army is just a 3rd level spell twice per day. It's nice in that you don't have to burn spell slots to get some skeletal minions
    More to the point, you don't have to burn cash. SLA's don't require any material components, even costly ones. This means that your skeletons are far more expendable than they otherwise would be.

    From the Coffin to Enslave has a stupid name. The ability can only be gotten at 20th level or later, so who cares about LA?
    Someone continuing into epic levels?
    My general 3.5 balance fix.
    My psionics remix.
    My common-sense houserules.
    More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

    Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

    Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
    Come visit the Core Coliseum today, for a totally different style of optimization.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Wavelab's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Coffin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)

    Alright fixed the evil part.

    And yes Yitzi, you are right on both accounts.
    Extended Hombrew Signature

    Avatar by Dashwood.

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