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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    My character from this game is a Sentai/Magical Girl who uses heavy hand bombards. Given that both classes end up allowing + charisma mod to damage (even if only on spirit shots for the magical girl), I do worry that a minimum damage roll of 23 might be a bit much (since that means rolling all 1s on 3d8+3d6).
    I wouldn't allow charisma modifiers to stack if I were the GM... or maybe it would just increase it to x1.5 instead of x2 charisma mod*.

    *Actually I would do 0.75x(charisma SCORE -10), because I am mathematician at heart, but that is beside the point.
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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    I wouldn't allow charisma modifiers to stack if I were the GM... or maybe it would just increase it to x1.5 instead of x2 charisma mod*.

    *Actually I would do 0.75x(charisma SCORE -10), because I am mathematician at heart, but that is beside the point.
    But you also seem to be forgetting that with gun using spirit shooters, for each previous spirit shot you've hit the target with that turn, it deals an additional Cha mod damage. That said, you could account for that by making the equation (0.75 + 0.5 per previous spirit shot to hit the target this turn)x(charisma score - 10). All said though, the high damage output was completely unintentional. I'd just wanted to play a guy turned magical girl turned sentai who compensated for his lost manhood by using an oversized gun. I avoided taking rapid shot since the penalty to attack didn't seem overly significant given the spirit shots are touch attacks and the amount of damage the third hit would deal being ridiculous (a minimum of 35, maximum 71 without criticals or maneuvers).

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    I wouldn't allow charisma modifiers to stack if I were the GM... or maybe it would just increase it to x1.5 instead of x2 charisma mod*.

    *Actually I would do 0.75x(charisma SCORE -10), because I am mathematician at heart, but that is beside the point.
    Well whether it as written stacks depends on wording.
    If it says they may replace their Str mod with Cha mod, it doesn't stack, but if either one just adds +cha mod damage, then it stacks unless you rule zero.
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  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    I think I still need to run one of these.

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    This sounds like a case for stealing Martial Maneuvers "initiating levels plus one half of all other levels" mechanic. Haven't even looked at Spirit Shot, but having it grow at half-rate for Magical Girl centric PrC levels, and not at all for levels of other classes and PrCs sounds like just the thing for the problem you describe.
    Yes, thank you, superb idea and done. Spirit Shot now scales at half speed in any class that has the Illuminations or Focused Illuminations class feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Actually, speaking of Nanoha, perhaps an Archetype based on the Belkan cartridge system. It could have to do with storing energy in cartridges between combat, reducing the number of motes the magical girl begins an encounter with. The cartridges could then be used to buff attacks or illuminations.
    Idea cataloged. Expect to see this at some point, though I'm torn as to whether it would make a better Archetype or PrC. I lean towards the latter, simply because cartridges are a power-up: devices work fine without them, and did so for quite some time. PrC also gives a lot more room to put in some nice detail on the system.

    Downside is of course that PrCs are more time-consuming that archetypes to write.

    My character from this game is a Sentai/Magical Girl who uses heavy hand bombards. Given that both classes end up allowing + charisma mod to damage (even if only on spirit shots for the magical girl), I do worry that a minimum damage roll of 23 might be a bit much (since that means rolling all 1s on 3d8+3d6).
    With any ability or build where the majority of the focus is on dealing damage, I tend to be very open-minded as to what might be considered 'broken', particularly once the game starts heading into the mid levels and beyond. Because face it, pure damage is bad. It just isn't an efficient way of dealing with things as the levels tick up. Despite how cool her costume abilities are, a magical girl's most potent tools are still her illuminations, which that build sacrifices to a great degree. She's very good at what she does, but I wouldn't call her broken by any means (particularly if you rule-zero a Cha-modifier suppressant, because stacking modifiers always gets wonky).

    Ironically, the one thing in that character that is probably going to be nerfed is Vigil of Candles. It offers way too much for a first level illumination, and will likely be reduced to doling out a fixed penalty rather than Cha mod in the very near future. The present version will likely be renamed and bumped down to a higher tier.

    In other news, I've been struck by a desire to give Elemental Magical Girls some attention: elemental affinity is a big part of many magical girl lineups, and it has been rather neglected in this class. To kick things off, the Prismatic Calling feat is now substantially less terrible. Also, an elemental-themed five-level PrC is very near completion, so heads up for that in the next couple days.
    Last edited by Selinia; 2012-06-21 at 09:37 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Selinia View Post
    In other news, I've been struck by a desire to give Elemental Magical Girls some attention[...]
    And the multitudes rejoiced! Mine have, anyway.

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    The Prism Knight

    "Let's get this rolling! Blazing Crimson Garnet, turn up the heat!"
    -Mai, a Fire Prism Knight

    Light is a melding of many colors - all of them, in fact, from every point along the spectrum. Most of those who wield light do so as a whole, wielding the unified luminescence as a single potent entity. Most of those who bother breaking it down do so only to cherry-pick the most virulent effects of each color.

    Prism knights see things differently. They devote their focus to a single facet of light, bonding with and studying it to the exclusion of the others. While some might argue that this costs them their greater understanding of light as a whole, the prism knight's monochrome endeavors grant her unrivaled mastery over manifestations of their chosen hue.

    Crackling yellow sparks, burning red flames, chilling blue ice or vibrantly pink music... each to walk this path finds the element which resounds with them most. With that power in hand, they are a force unlike any other in the arsenal of light.

    Requirements
    To become a prism knight, you must fulfill the following criteria.
    Skills: Concentration 9 ranks
    Feats: Prismatic Calling, Radiant Soul
    Special: Must be able to prepare second level illuminations.

    Spoiler
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    Given that the PrC revolves around Illuminations to a large extent, I felt it would be appropriate to include the Radiant Soul feat in the requirement. Given that way this class likes to eat extra motes, starting combat with a few extra worth of buffer is something that's bound to be quite useful in short fights. Prismatic Calling is a given, and many of the class' feature interact with it in some way.

    I'm normally not too fond of PrCs that begin at odd levels like 6, but I don't think Prism Knight is hurt by it much. Magical Girl 6 is a pretty solid level, granting both a costume point and second level illuminations.


    Class Skill List: Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge [Arcana] (Int), Knowledge [The Planes] (Int), Perform (Cha), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha)
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

    Spoiler
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    Prism knights manipulate their illuminations in some esoteric ways, and they understand them a good bit better than an average 'I hit things and then sparkles!' magical girl. Two Knowledges (Arcana and The Planes) and Spellcraft won't make her a party sage, but they're there.


    Prism Knight

    Hit Dice: d8
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special | Illuminations

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    | Affinity, Themed Costume (+1), Unfocused Illuminations | +1 level of existing illumination-using class

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    | Prisms (1), Elemental Familiarity | +1 level of existing illumination-using class

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    | Prisms (2), Elemental Conduit | +1 level of existing illumination-using class

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    | Prisms (3), Themed Costume (+2) | +1 level of existing illumination-using class

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    | Prisms (4), Elemental Heart | +1 level of existing illumination-using class
    [/table]

    Spoiler
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    Standard magical girl PrC chassis. Not much more to say here.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A prism knight gains no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

    Affinity (Su): Rather than using the pure white light to which many illuminations default, a prism knight gains a special affinity for a single color of radiance. At 1st level, she chooses an energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic) to be her affinity element. This does not prohibit her use of other elements in costume effects or illuminations, but many of the prism knight’s class features apply only to her affinity element.

    Spoiler
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    Attunement to a single element. This is fairly important, as your choice of element determines quite a few of your class features. The core prisms will stay the same, but there are abilities on the side that are pretty radically different depending on which of the big five you select.


    Illuminations:
    A prism knight centers her focus on a single color of light, gaining great insight into her powers, but her overall understanding of light is no less refined. Her levels in prism knight and magical girl stack to determine all aspects of her Illuminations class feature.

    Spoiler
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    Yep. The Prism Knight is officially the first magical girl PrC to fully advance Illuminations. Illuminations are what it does - it uses more motes than any other magical girl class, and it needs every last one to get the most out of its class features.


    Themed Costume (Su): A prism knight’s focus gives her a degree of insight into her affinity element that other magical girls could only dream of – but her adaptability and versatility suffers for it. A prism knight does not gain costume points or increase the investment limit for her costume effects. At 1st level, and again at 4th level, she permanently ingrains one point each of the Thematic and Prismatic effects into her costume, each keyed to her affinity element. These permanent effects cannot be reallocated, do not consume costume points, and do not count against the maximum number of costume points the prism knight may invest in any given effect.

    Many of the prism knight’s class features reference the damage dealt by her Prismatic costume element, referring to it as Prismatic damage.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Costume progression, but limited to a couple of costume elements. Prismatic is arguably one of the best costume elements, while Thematic is arguably one of the most situational. Still, the inability to access the +3 effects of costume elements until significantly later is probably the biggest price paid by the prism knight.


    Prisms (Su):
    As the prism knight grows in power, she learns to coax the unique powers of her affinity element out from the muddled mess of light that normally comprises an illumination. At each level beyond 1st, she acquires new talents for the shaping of her illuminations – the prisms for which her class is named. Unless otherwise noted, any prism effect that deals damage deals damage of the prism knight’s affinity type. No more than one prism effect may be applied to any single illumination.

    A prism knight selects her prisms from the following list, and may choose new ones any time she can ready her illuminations. She may ready one prism at 2nd level, and an additional prism at each level thereafter.

    Spoiler
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    Chromatic Blow: When evoking a blast or burst, the prism knight may pay one additional mote to convert the illumination to a strike. It gains all the intrinsic characteristics of a strike, requiring a melee attack to hit and inflicting the effects of the prism knight’s weapon along with the effects of the blast of burst.

    Elemental Assault: The prism knight may use Prismatic Calling in conjunction with any attack with her device, even mundane blows. No more than one non-strike attack may be so enhanced each turn.

    Incandescent Cascade: After evoking a blast, the prism knight may pay an additional two motes to immediately evoke the same blast again as a free action. She must still pay the full mote cost of the blast on this second evocation.

    Lashing Light: When evoking a strike, the prism knight may pay one additional mote to convert it to a burst. The strike gains a range of Short (25 + 5/two evoker levels ft.), provokes attacks of opportunity, and is a Cha-based ranged touch attack. Further, the strike deals only the prism knight’s prismatic damage, losing the base damage of the attack. A strike converted into a burst otherwise functions as normal, essentially allowing you to make the attack at range.

    Many as One: When an ally within 60 feet of the prism knight makes a melee attack, she may pay two motes as a free action to evoke a standard-action strike and add its effects to the attack. She must still pay the full cost of the strike she chooses to evoke, and may only use this ability once per turn.

    Painter's Smite: When evoking a strike, the prism knight may pay one additional mote to amplify the effects of that illumination, raising the save DC by 1 for every die of prismatic damage the prism knight possesses.

    Piercing Call: When evoking a blast or burst, the prism knight may pay one additional mote to amplify the effects of that illumination, raising the save DC by 1 for every die of prismatic damage the prism knight possesses.

    Primal Pulse: When evoking a blast or burst illumination, the prism knight may pay one additional mote to cause the effect to manifest as an intense explosion of her affinity element. Enemies adjacent to the illumination’s target take splash damage equal to her Prismatic damage dice. If the blast or burst targets an area, the damage is dealt to enemies in the illumination’s area of effect instead.

    Realm of Color: When paying an aura’s upkeep, the prism knight may pay one additional mote to double the aura’s radius for one round.

    Supersaturate: When paying an aura’s upkeep, the prism knight may pay one additional mote to whip up a furious storm of her affinity element. Enemies within her aura’s radius are dealt her prismatic damage.

    Unflinching Radiance: When paying an aura’s upkeep, the prism knight may pay one additional mote to reduce the ability of nearby enemies to resist her affinity element. Any enemy within her aura radius loses an amount of resistance to the prism knight’s affinity element equal to the resistance granted by her Thematic costume element. Creatures with elemental immunity are treated as if they originally had a resistance of 50. Resistance cannot be reduced below zero.


    Spoiler
    Show
    The meat and potatoes of the class, which can essentially be summed up as 'Metamagic for Illuminations'. I'm likely to add more of these over time, but there's a pretty healthy starter list at the moment. These can add a lot of versatility to a magical girl's illumination list, but using them regularly can be a pricy proposition - like many aspects of the magical girl, it's a resource managing exercise.


    Elemental Familiarity (Su): At 2nd level, the prism knight may convert damage from a Blast illumination (or spirit shot, if applicable) into her affinity element, without paying an additional mote to use Prismatic Calling. She must still use and pay for Prismatic Calling if she wishes to add her prismatic damage dice to the attack.

    Additionally, the prism knight has learned to manipulate her element in a much more precise manner than before, manifested as a supernatural ability derived from her affinity element.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Fire: The prism knight can fuel a nearby flame with her blazing spirit, causing an eruption of smoke or flame. This functions identically to the spell Pyrotechnics, treating the prism knight's evoker level as her caster level. Once used, this ability takes 1d4+1 rounds to recharge. If the prism knight wishes, she may render the effects of this ability harmless, creating an explosive display for purely cosmetic purposes.

    Acid: The prism knight can force her essence into the chinks of an object, steadily corroding it into its natural components. This is a touch attack dealing [1d6/evoker level + Cha mod] acid damage to a single object, ignoring the object's hardness. Objects destroyed by this ability decompose into their raw components - a metal plate, for example, might drop away as a pile of unworked ore. Using this ability is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, and it may not be used to target a creature under any circumstances.

    Cold: The prism knight can exude calm and stillness into her surroundings, condensing water from the air - or converting water into ice. Used to create water, this ability functions identically to the spell Create Water, treating the prism knight's evoker level as her caster level. Used to create ice, this ability may freeze solid up to one gallon of liquid water per evoker level - the prism knight may attempt to freeze ice in a particular shape through use of a Craft check, as the spell Fabricate. The ice is mundane in nature, but will not begin to melt until the prism knight is not longer in physical contact with it, even if the ambient temperature is above freezing. Using either form of this ability is a full-round action which provokes attacks of opportunity.

    Electricity: The prism knight can harmonize with the electric currents in her surroundings, allowing her to shift certain objects about as if they were extensions of her own body. This functions as the spell Mage Hand, but with a duration of Concentration and a maximum load of [5 lbs/evoker level]. Objects that are normally resistant to conducting electricity, such as stone or wood, count as double their actual weight for the purposes of this ability's carrying capacity.

    Sonic: The prism knight can catch her own voice, sending it far away and returning with the response of another. This functions as the spell Whispering Wind, but may record a twenty-five word reply and return it to the prism knight after delivering the initial message.


    Elemental Conduit (Su)
    : At 3rd level, the prism knight may use Prismatic Calling in conjunction with strike illuminations. The prismatic damage added by Prismatic Calling stacks with the prismatic damage on the prism knight’s device.

    Additionally, the strength of the prism knight's affinity for her chosen element has begun to alter even her most basic interactions with her radiant powers. She gains one of the following supernatural abilities, derived from her affinity element.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Fire: The prism knight can burn brighter than ever before - but like the flames she has attuned herself to, that radiance comes with a price. The prism knight may use her Radiant Focus ability as a swift action, but she takes 1d8 points of damage for each mote regained in this manner. The prism knight may still use Radiant Focus normally if she wishes to, and may still only use Radiant Focus once per turn. Damage taken through this ability cannot be reduced by any means.

    Acid: The prism knight channels the caustic essence of acid, purging from her body that which does not belong. As a move action, she may remove any of the following conditions from herself: Sickened, Nauseated, Confused, or any one poison or disease. Using this ability costs three motes.

    Cold: The radiance of the prism knight takes solid form, light itself condensing into a luminous sheet of ice to protect her. When the prism knight takes damage, she may pay any number of motes as a free action to reduce that damage. Each mote she expends in this manner negates a number of points of damage equal to her class level.

    Electricity: The prism knight is a living dynamo, channeling trace amounts of radiant power even when completely at rest. At the beginning of combat, she gains a number of motes equal to 3/4 of her mote pool, rounded down, rather than 1/2 of it.

    Sonic: The prism knight can broadcast her illuminations more brightly and clearly than ever before. The range of her burst and blast illuminations is doubled, and the radius of her auras increases by 50%.


    Elemental Heart (Su): At 5th level, whenever the prism knight dons her costume, its elemental energy permeates her very being, rendering her as much a being of the elements as one of mortal flesh. While in costume, the prism knight has a 50% chance to negate any critical hit made against her, and gains a +4 bonus to her charisma score.

    Additionally, her attunement with her chosen element reaches its highest point - its essence infuses her and flows through her no less than the blood in her veins. She gains one of the following supernatural abilities, derived from her affinity element.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Fire: The prism knight is a living, breathing furnace of burning light. Whenever the prism knight deals her prismatic damage, she deals an additional two points of damage per die.

    Acid: The prism knight can feel and empathize with light at its simplest, most basic level, and understands better than any other the building blocks of her illuminations. Once per encounter, as a full-round action, the prism knight may replace one of her prepared illuminations with another of the same level or lower. This replacement lasts until the end of the encounter, at which point her illuminations revert back to those she has prepared normally.

    Cold: The prism knight is a pristine sculpture of near-perfect spiritual clarity. A number of times per encounter equal to her Cha modifier, a prism knight may make use of a Prism effect without paying an additional mote.

    Electricity: The prism knight is capable of channeling even the most erratic power fluidly, and surpasses all others in the flexibility and versatility of her power. She select an additional three Prisms when choosing which effects to prepare.

    Sonic: The prism knight resonates with her surroundings just as clearly as she does with herself, and can draw upon the ambient light of the air to aid her in broadcasting her powers. Whenever she is sustaining any number of illuminations, such as auras, her total (not per-illumination) mote upkeep is reduced by one. This ability cannot reduce her upkeep to zero - if she is sustaining illuminations, a prism knight must always pay at least one mote per turn.


    Spoiler
    Show
    And these three abilities are why elements matter. Each of the five offers some pretty unique benefits, and I like to think affinity element is an actual choice now rather than just slapping on acid or electricity and calling it a day.
    Last edited by Selinia; 2012-10-23 at 11:37 AM.
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  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Right then, the Prism Knight. This class has been giving me a headache all weekend.

    As you might have noticed, I've flagged this class as a beta - I don't consider it anywhere near its final format, but it is technically playable. It's going to be fixed up, but there are a number of ways that could potentially happen: I could embrace a more separated elemental theme (currently the elemental stuff feels rather forced, and not very flavorful at all), deal with status effects, or something else entirely. I honestly don't know for now, so I'm going to sit on that thought - and see if someone else can suggest something I've not run through already.

    In the meantime, I'm going to step back and overhaul the illumination list a bit. This can wait until I've got a better idea of what to do with it.
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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    On the prism knight, while it looks good so far, some bits of it feel somewhat incomplete. The meta illumination list for example feels it could use a little expanding. Off hand, it might be worth adding a note that a spirit shooter can treat their spirit shot as a blast illumination for the Prisms.

    As a side note, themed costume does not actually specify that the permanent points need be spent on the element the prism knight is focused on.

    A possible idea for a Prism would be one that allows a continuous damage on a successful hit. Possibly something like causing a fortitude or reflex save on hit, and if failed the target takes 1d4 damage of the chosen element per round for a number of rounds equal to the number of die of prismatic damage the prism knight possesses.

    Possibly adding one or two illuminations specific to each element might also help. If you go with two, there could be one more flavourful utility type illumination, and one that is more combat effective. As an example of more flavourful illuminations, fire might provide an aura that gives off heat, making it so those in range need not make saves against cold temperatures, while cold might get an aura doing the reverse (both of which might specify an ability to be used outside of combat). That said, correspond illuminations to be granted by the other elements are harder to come up with. Acid just melts things, but based on that might get a corrosive touch that isn't much use in combat, but can be used for things like breaking locks, chains, etc. Electricity I'm unsure of in a fantasy setting, but in a modern one would be able to do something with electronics, otherwise best I can think of off hand is making light... Sonic, I similarly am unsure on, possible something communication related, such as an ability to converse long distance. They might even each get something later that if used for given Prisms, get added bonuses to make them combat capable (such as the heat/cold aura getting an extra d6 of damage when used with Elemental Assault). Combat specific illuminations could just be based off somewhat more iconic spells or abilities showcasing more unique aspects of each element.

    Anyway, on the whole, I think a mostly matching chassis for each element is a good idea, but each should likely get a little something to show what is different about it compared to the others aside from what word you put next to the damage you're dealing/resistant to. If I come up with anything else, I'll let you know.

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    First of all, i love this class
    As such i want to help you designing it as much as possible, hence, a lot of suggestions from me:

    First, something for flavor: Make it possible to designate wondrous items as part of your costume.
    Either as many as you want, or maybe one per maximum costume point (obviously still following the normal rules on magic item slots).
    Something like "In addition to a suit of armor, you can also designate worn wondrous items (like hats, gloves or googles) as part of your costume. This does not change their effect in any way, but they get summoned and dismissed as part of your costume and can be retrieved like other parts of it. You can assign one wondrous item per maximum costume point you have."

    I wouldn't grant any statistic benefits, but it would ensure that a Magical Girls outfit would match her costume (found lime-green boots? Now they match your Costumes look!). And i can't really imagine a Magical Girl in her "civilian clothes" wearing all the stuff an adventurer normally does.


    Some mechanical suggestions:
    - Device: How about allowing "Weapon Focus: Device" and other feats? Soulknifes can do that for their Mindblades as well, and it would greatly benefit those who have Evolved Devices.

    - Power of Friendship: Right now it is really really hard to succeed at this, because you have to suceed ten times while the captive only has to succeed three times. Either change that, or introduce a way where the enemy has to reset his successes (and you can try again if he was already at three successes). Ideally when he escapes on his own (to prevent release-and-recapture shenanigans) and is captured/defeated again.
    Also, i'd LOVE it if you can make a check immediately after you have bested an enemy, as long as you had a proper conversation during the fight - that would be soo fitting to Nanoha (and other shows)!

    - Evolved Device feat: I would remove the need to be proficient with the weapon in question. Right now the feat does nothing a Transformative-weapon enchantment doesn't do. Other than gaining an exotic Device, and an exotic weapon isn't worth two feats! If the feat instead allows you to pick ANY weapon (and gain proficiency with it due to being your device) it is useful for those who want an exotic device as well as those who want their weapon to transform, without forcing you to take martial or exotic weapon proficiency. Also, you might want to allow ranged weapons with this (and melee weapons for Spirit Shooters). Exotic weapon proficiency is already a weak feat and would hardly be overpowered with an improved version.

    - Rainbow road: This would greatly benefit if you could make paths in the air with it (aking to wingroad in StrikerS). You can already fly at this level anyway, so it'd hardly be overpowered.

    - Swallow Buster: I don't see the point of this. You will hit most of the time anyway (since Blasts target Touch-AC), and almost all enemies with high Touch-AC have a high Reflex save as well. Maybe if it allowed you to attack a second time if the first attack hits and the enemy doesn't make a save or such, but otherwise this is almost completely pointless.

    - Enhanced Costume: Since you can enchant your device and costume anyway, why would you ever take this? I'd at least allow you to use the enhancement-bonus to add weapon- or armor-properties.

    - Sacred Champion Feat: Taking this via Paladin-levels is extremely hard (and then only provides a small benefit). An alternate version for Paladins that doesn't require that much spellcasting (and a Paladin class feature instead) would be nice.



    Last but not least, i am currently writing a Handbook for this class (still very incomplete). You can find it here. All input and criticism is welcome!

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Some more stuff:

    First, a question:
    What stats does the Mentor Animal use? Just the stats of whatever animal you pick, with a modified intelligence?

    If that is so, it's reaaaly squishy, and as of now it is unclear whether and how you can regain it once its slain. Maybe a simple "has half HP of mistress and uses her saves, can be regained within a week if slain"?


    Taking the Busou Shoujo-feat is a really nice way to simulate intelligent devices from Lyrical Nanoha due to the Black Blade. If you take the Mentor Animal Archetype as well you can even simulate unison devices!
    The Arcana pool of the Black Blade (as well as your own) is meanwhile a decent way to simulate a Cartridge system.



    Here are some changes that make this a Pathfinder-class (most should be obvious, but can't harm to list them somewhere):

    Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Fly (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Perform (Cha), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha)
    Replace all mentions of "Balance" and "Tumble" with "Acrobatics"

    Radiant Focus: Use Perform instead of Concentration (makes Perform useful)

    Weightless: If you invest 5 points, you provoke no attacks of Opporunity from the creature you target with your standard action during Flyby Attack.

    Quick: If you invest 6 points, you can make a second attack when using Spring Attack.

    Archetype Clarification: Whenever a feat allows levels of another class to advance a class feature, they also advance any class feature gained by an Archetype that replaces or alters said class feature. When only the effect of a class feature is advanced, but no new versions of that class feature are granted, then only the effect of the Archetype-feature you gain from your levels in that class is advanced.
    Example: When you have the Busou Shoujo and the Bladebound-Archetype, your Magical Girl levels advance your Black Blade (since Black Blade alters your Arcana Pool class feature).
    When you have the Illuminating Song feat and the Archivist-Archetype, you advance your Naturalist ability instead of Inspire Courage.

    Illuminating Song Your Bard and Magical Girl levels stack when determining your Mote Pool (but not your llluminations), the number of rounds for your Bardic Performance and the Bonus granted by your Inspire Courage class feature.

    Sacred Champion: Prerequisites: Ability to ready 2 illuminations per encounter, Channel Energy 2D6
    Benefit: Your cleric and magical girl levels stack to determine your Channel Energy Class feature and your Mote Pool (but not your Illuminations). Paladins count as clerics of their class level.
    Note: Channel Energy 2D6 sets the minimum Cleric-levels at 3 without requiring spellcasting, and Paladins get it at 4th-level.

  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    First off, Assorted Tweaks and Errata. Nothing major here - just a few basic presentation and balance tweaks. Thanks to Serafina for a lot of these - her Magical Girl handbook pointed out some glaring disparities in some of the most basic abilities.

    • The Illumination and Costume lists are now alphabetized. I can't be the only one who was getting a headache scrolling through that mess.
    • Beacon of Serenity now scales more effectively, using Evoker Level + Cha rather than a Cha multiplier.
    • Vigil of Candles is now hardcapped. It scaled a tad too well before, and a magical girl with Combat Reflexes or some other source of extra AoOs could create a near-invulnerability bubble with little effort. It's still quite potent, but it generally won't produce the automisses it used to.
    • Angel Buster no longer nerfs itself against its non-favored enemies, and packs a significantly flashier wallop when it connects with the nasties it's meant for.
    • Borealis is now a second-level illumination, and scales more fluidly.
    • Rainbow Road can now be used to create midair platforms, bridges, and the like - with you choosing who can stand on them and who can't. The ability has also been clarified to not apply to enemies.
    • Dance of Lights is now a third-level illumination. You still grant evasion and mettle to your buddies. It's still one of the better illuminations on the list. It just costs more now.
    • Sound the Bells still deals crummy damage, but shines in its role as a hordebreaker - the more outnumbered your team is, the better that healing is going to get, drawing directly from the pool of damage dealt and applying where it's most needed.
    • Swallow Buster takes a page from the darkness-attacking book of Magic Missile. No longer content to be effectively an autohit, it now is an autohit - not the most economical Blast, but an excellent choice for dealing with high Touch AC baddies or incorporeal fools.
    • Light of the Martyr now actually does something.
    • Device - Limit Form has been patched to remove the loophole allowing the use of a full-attack Strike to sneak in two full attacks in a single action. That... wasn't intended.


    There are likely more tweaks like these on the way, along with some genuinely new illuminations to flesh out those lists, but this is a start for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    On the prism knight,
    Spoiler
    Show
    while it looks good so far, some bits of it feel somewhat incomplete. The meta illumination list for example feels it could use a little expanding. Off hand, it might be worth adding a note that a spirit shooter can treat their spirit shot as a blast illumination for the Prisms.

    As a side note, themed costume does not actually specify that the permanent points need be spent on the element the prism knight is focused on.

    A possible idea for a Prism would be one that allows a continuous damage on a successful hit. Possibly something like causing a fortitude or reflex save on hit, and if failed the target takes 1d4 damage of the chosen element per round for a number of rounds equal to the number of die of prismatic damage the prism knight possesses.

    Possibly adding one or two illuminations specific to each element might also help. If you go with two, there could be one more flavourful utility type illumination, and one that is more combat effective. As an example of more flavourful illuminations, fire might provide an aura that gives off heat, making it so those in range need not make saves against cold temperatures, while cold might get an aura doing the reverse (both of which might specify an ability to be used outside of combat). That said, correspond illuminations to be granted by the other elements are harder to come up with. Acid just melts things, but based on that might get a corrosive touch that isn't much use in combat, but can be used for things like breaking locks, chains, etc. Electricity I'm unsure of in a fantasy setting, but in a modern one would be able to do something with electronics, otherwise best I can think of off hand is making light... Sonic, I similarly am unsure on, possible something communication related, such as an ability to converse long distance. They might even each get something later that if used for given Prisms, get added bonuses to make them combat capable (such as the heat/cold aura getting an extra d6 of damage when used with Elemental Assault). Combat specific illuminations could just be based off somewhat more iconic spells or abilities showcasing more unique aspects of each element.

    Anyway, on the whole, I think a mostly matching chassis for each element is a good idea, but each should likely get a little something to show what is different about it compared to the others aside from what word you put next to the damage you're dealing/resistant to. If I come up with anything else, I'll let you know.


    Owrtho
    As usual, all excellent points. This was a wonderful mental jumpstart, and I think I've got some fuel to get to rebuilding the Prism Knight shortly. The idea of themed utility abilities for each element is particularly nice, and will definitely see use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serafina View Post
    First of all, i love this class
    As such i want to help you designing it as much as possible, hence, a lot of suggestions from me:

    First, something for flavor: Make it possible to designate wondrous items as part of your costume.
    Either as many as you want, or maybe one per maximum costume point (obviously still following the normal rules on magic item slots).
    Something like "In addition to a suit of armor, you can also designate worn wondrous items (like hats, gloves or googles) as part of your costume. This does not change their effect in any way, but they get summoned and dismissed as part of your costume and can be retrieved like other parts of it. You can assign one wondrous item per maximum costume point you have."

    I wouldn't grant any statistic benefits, but it would ensure that a Magical Girls outfit would match her costume (found lime-green boots? Now they match your Costumes look!). And i can't really imagine a Magical Girl in her "civilian clothes" wearing all the stuff an adventurer normally does.
    Always wonderful to hear someone is getting some enjoyment out of this.

    All I can say here is sure, why not? I see no reason for them to not be able to dismiss her magical items if she doesn't like toting them around.

    Some mechanical suggestions:
    - Device: How about allowing "Weapon Focus: Device" and other feats? Soulknifes can do that for their Mindblades as well, and it would greatly benefit those who have Evolved Devices.
    In retrospect, this is a much cleaner way of allowing device weapon-focusing than I currently have. So presto, changed.

    - Power of Friendship: Right now it is really really hard to succeed at this, because you have to suceed ten times while the captive only has to succeed three times. Either change that, or introduce a way where the enemy has to reset his successes (and you can try again if he was already at three successes). Ideally when he escapes on his own (to prevent release-and-recapture shenanigans) and is captured/defeated again.
    Also, i'd LOVE it if you can make a check immediately after you have bested an enemy, as long as you had a proper conversation during the fight - that would be soo fitting to Nanoha (and other shows)!
    One thing to bear in mind is that a captive must make three successes in a row, while the magical girl need only make ten successes total. Against all but the most strong-willed enemies, the odds are in the favor of the magical girl, even if the process takes a while.

    I like the idea of a capture-based instant persuasion roll, but it would likely involve stapling another highly-situational paragraph onto a fluff ability that's already a bit bulky.

    It can be tricky, but changing alignments isn't something that is done casually, and it isn't meant to be. Even the Befriender herself generally needs a full season of beatdowns to turn a couple of enemies into allies - and they're often pretty Neutral to begin with.

    - Evolved Device feat: I would remove the need to be proficient with the weapon in question. Right now the feat does nothing a Transformative-weapon enchantment doesn't do. Other than gaining an exotic Device, and an exotic weapon isn't worth two feats! If the feat instead allows you to pick ANY weapon (and gain proficiency with it due to being your device) it is useful for those who want an exotic device as well as those who want their weapon to transform, without forcing you to take martial or exotic weapon proficiency. Also, you might want to allow ranged weapons with this (and melee weapons for Spirit Shooters). Exotic weapon proficiency is already a weak feat and would hardly be overpowered with an improved version.
    You make a very valid point. I fell into the all-to-common trap of overvaluing Exotic weaponry without any real reason to. This is tweaked up to allow any melee weapon, and explicitly allows Spirit Shooters to get a ranged one. That said, I'd rather not get the two muddled up - letting spirit shooters have a melee device or a normal magical girl have a ranged one blurs the line between them a bit too much for my taste. If a melee MG wants to shoot, she can use a blast. If a Spirit Shooter needs to brawl, she can Strike with a mundane combat knife and a free hand. No need to go further.

    - Rainbow road: This would greatly benefit if you could make paths in the air with it (aking to wingroad in StrikerS). You can already fly at this level anyway, so it'd hardly be overpowered.

    - Swallow Buster: I don't see the point of this. You will hit most of the time anyway (since Blasts target Touch-AC), and almost all enemies with high Touch-AC have a high Reflex save as well. Maybe if it allowed you to attack a second time if the first attack hits and the enemy doesn't make a save or such, but otherwise this is almost completely pointless.
    Both these rather underwhelming abilities have been given a bit of a boost. See above errata.

    - Enhanced Costume: Since you can enchant your device and costume anyway, why would you ever take this? I'd at least allow you to use the enhancement-bonus to add weapon- or armor-properties.
    Expect to see something very much along these lines when I get to to overhauling some of the costume abilities.

    - Sacred Champion Feat: Taking this via Paladin-levels is extremely hard (and then only provides a small benefit). An alternate version for Paladins that doesn't require that much spellcasting (and a Paladin class feature instead) would be nice.
    I'm rather unhappy with many of the multiclass feats right now, which are a little scattered in terms of usefulness. Major overhauls are scheduled, albeit with a bit of a queue in front of them at the moment.

    Last but not least, i am currently writing a Handbook for this class (still very incomplete). You can find it here. All input and criticism is welcome!
    A... handbook?

    For the magical girl?

    Somebody is writing a handbook for my class?

    *Faints*

    In all seriousness though, wow. I am very impressed - I can't say I've ever seen a handbook for a homebrew class before, though I'm sure they're out there somewhere. You seem to have a very solid grip on the class (heck, you caught a few exploits I've missed in all the time since I made the thing), but if you've got any questions I'd love to help fill this out however I can.

    Only thing I can think of off the cuff is possibly adopting a five-star system. You're very heavy with the blue, and it might be nice to differentiate 'This is an excellent, top of the line option' from 'this is effectively mandatory for a certain build'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serafina View Post
    Some more stuff:

    First, a question:
    What stats does the Mentor Animal use? Just the stats of whatever animal you pick, with a modified intelligence?

    If that is so, it's reaaaly squishy, and as of now it is unclear whether and how you can regain it once its slain. Maybe a simple "has half HP of mistress and uses her saves, can be regained within a week if slain"?
    The mentor animal is rather fragile, yes, but not quite that fragile. Their stats are calculated like those of a familiar - which means their saves are those of their owner and their hit die are equal to those of the owner, among other things. I've clarified this, since it was rather vague.

    Still, they're not intended for combat, for the most part - though a dip in Druid and the Sunflower Druid feat can make them pretty formidable if you really want to invest there. Most of the time a magical girl's mentor animal will be hiding in her backpack, scurrying off to the side of the battlefield, or keeping itself out of trouble in some other manner.

    They have an auto-rez as well now, since permakilling a magical girl's talking kitty wasn't intentional, and is... rather harsh.

    Taking the Busou Shoujo-feat is a really nice way to simulate intelligent devices from Lyrical Nanoha due to the Black Blade. If you take the Mentor Animal Archetype as well you can even simulate unison devices!
    The Arcana pool of the Black Blade (as well as your own) is meanwhile a decent way to simulate a Cartridge system.
    Huh. That's an interesting connection. I'm not honestly that familiar with the Magus, but that seems like a neat starting point for some build or another. Assuming of course the magical girl can find a way to surmount the attribute dissynergy - I seem to remember Charisma being pretty much useless for Magi, while they love Int and Dex.

    Here are some changes that make this a Pathfinder-class (most should be obvious, but can't harm to list them somewhere):

    Spoiler
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    Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Fly (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Perform (Cha), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha)
    Replace all mentions of "Balance" and "Tumble" with "Acrobatics"

    Radiant Focus: Use Perform instead of Concentration (makes Perform useful)

    Weightless: If you invest 5 points, you provoke no attacks of Opporunity from the creature you target with your standard action during Flyby Attack.

    Quick: If you invest 6 points, you can make a second attack when using Spring Attack.

    Archetype Clarification: Whenever a feat allows levels of another class to advance a class feature, they also advance any class feature gained by an Archetype that replaces or alters said class feature. When only the effect of a class feature is advanced, but no new versions of that class feature are granted, then only the effect of the Archetype-feature you gain from your levels in that class is advanced.
    Example: When you have the Busou Shoujo and the Bladebound-Archetype, your Magical Girl levels advance your Black Blade (since Black Blade alters your Arcana Pool class feature).
    When you have the Illuminating Song feat and the Archivist-Archetype, you advance your Naturalist ability instead of Inspire Courage.

    Illuminating Song Your Bard and Magical Girl levels stack when determining your Mote Pool (but not your llluminations), the number of rounds for your Bardic Performance and the Bonus granted by your Inspire Courage class feature.

    Sacred Champion: Prerequisites: Ability to ready 2 illuminations per encounter, Channel Energy 2D6
    Benefit: Your cleric and magical girl levels stack to determine your Channel Energy Class feature and your Mote Pool (but not your Illuminations). Paladins count as clerics of their class level.
    Note: Channel Energy 2D6 sets the minimum Cleric-levels at 3 without requiring spellcasting, and Paladins get it at 4th-level.
    Nice to see. I may create a 'pathfinder-friendly' version of this at some (distant) point, but you hit all the major points I can think of for a quick and easy conversion.
    Last edited by Selinia; 2012-06-27 at 02:45 AM.
    Lovely Rita Mordio avatar by Zefir! Thank you!

    Homebrew:

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Hey, nice changes :)
    Made all the bad illuminations worthwhile. Now i have to go and change my ratings.

    Another thing that might qualify as an exploit (sorry that i didn't catch that before):
    When using Limit Form, you can use Glimmering Echo and then make your full attack, adding your Charisma bonus to all damage with said full attack.

    That makes this Illumination very powerful at higher levels for its cost. It depends on your hitting with the Strike itself, but that can be easily achieved with rerolls from the Lucky-CQ if needed.

    With a Charisma bonus of 10 (reasonable for a high-level MG), that would be about 30 extra damage (assuming that your main attack, your haste attack and your secondary attack hit) - on your own attack, plus whatever your allies do.
    Hardly gamebreaking IMO, just probably more powerful than intended for a first-level illumination.

    If you don't want that to happen, it can be fixed with a single modification:
    "This bonus damage does not apply to this strike or any other attacks you make this turn"


    In all seriousness though, wow. I am very impressed - I can't say I've ever seen a handbook for a homebrew class before, though I'm sure they're out there somewhere. You seem to have a very solid grip on the class (heck, you caught a few exploits I've missed in all the time since I made the thing), but if you've got any questions I'd love to help fill this out however I can.
    Honestly, handbook-writing isn't that hard if you restrict yourself to a narrow area (in this case it's Pathfinder-only so far, and will probably stay that way for quite a while). More importantly, it's fun :)

    Huh. That's an interesting connection. I'm not honestly that familiar with the Magus, but that seems like a neat starting point for some build or another. Assuming of course the magical girl can find a way to surmount the attribute dissynergy - I seem to remember Charisma being pretty much useless for Magi, while they love Int and Dex.
    Well, the main intent of such a multiclass would be taking 3-4 levels of Magus (4 if you want 2nd-level spells and class features depending on your Archetype) in order to get a Black Blade and an Arcana Pool.
    The former gives you an intelligent weapon with a scaling enhancement-bonus and some special abilities (notably +1/4 level bonus damage, spell resistance and life leech). The latter allows you to enhance your weapon further via swift actions.
    You wouldn't need that much Intelligence either - 12 suffices to cast 2nd-level spells, and since you will only cast buff-spells anyway your spells per day are not that important. Nor will you have many Magus Arcana, thus no need for a large Arcana Pool.

    Another trick is to take the Mentor Animal MG-Archetype to boost your Black Blades Intelligence (since your Charisma will be its Int-score and thus most likely higher).

    Nothing broken (and probably weaker than a straight magical girl), just a very fun build IMO. Gets reasonably powerful if you take the 3rd-party Tovenaar-Archetype (which replaces your spellcasting with plenty Domains and Inquisitions).


    Now then, gotta make some adjustments to that handbook^^


    Edit: Rainbow road may need a note that it doesn't block movement if placed in mid-air. It's clearly not supposed to, but a quick addition like "these spaces do not count as obstacles and do not block movement" would make it clearer.
    Last edited by Serafina; 2012-06-27 at 05:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Just took a look at the Archetypes.

    The Barrier Maiden ability of the Kofū Shōjo is strictly worse than Shrug it Off. My suggestion would be that the AC-Bonus applies to allies around her like an aura. Optionally only if she has her aura active, with a bonus depending on the level of the Aura.

    The Spirit Shooter could use an option for Composite Longbows and a free Gunsmithing-feat when selecting Firearms for her device. Not necessary since it's already a powerful Archetype though.

    The Mist Breaker could really use the Monks Unarmed Damage Progression (without it, unarmed attacks are strictly worse than armed ones).

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Selinia View Post
    You make a very valid point. I fell into the all-to-common trap of overvaluing Exotic weaponry without any real reason to. This is tweaked up to allow any melee weapon, and explicitly allows Spirit Shooters to get a ranged one. That said, I'd rather not get the two muddled up - letting spirit shooters have a melee device or a normal magical girl have a ranged one blurs the line between them a bit too much for my taste. If a melee MG wants to shoot, she can use a blast. If a Spirit Shooter needs to brawl, she can Strike with a mundane combat knife and a free hand. No need to go further.
    Personally, I don't think that allowing evolved device to grant melee or ranged weapons for magical girls who use the opposite would be too much intermixing. There are plenty of magical girl shows where the weapon swaps between a ranged and melee form. Further, the key difference is that spirit shooters have spirit shoot while lacking limit-form, while normal magical girls have the reverse. A normal magical girl would also still need to buy ammo. The main benefits to selecting a device form counter to your build would be getting the costume bonuses to it and not needing to put away the device and draw a normal weapon of the other type (you can just change the forms).

    It might also be worth noting how evolved device interacts with twinned device. Do both devices have to remain in the same form, or may one be in the evolved form and the other in the normal form?

    Unrelated, spirit shooters seem to lack any support in the area of strike illuminations. While spirit shoot is nice, some illuminations to add choice effects to attacks like strikes would be useful.

    I also figured I'd ask, spirit shoot notes that character abilities reducing reload time make the mote cost go down, but would this also apply to temporary reductions of reload time, such as maneuvers that make your reloading faster for a given duration? An example would be the Black Tempest maneuver.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serafina View Post
    The Spirit Shooter could use an option for Composite Longbows and a free Gunsmithing-feat when selecting Firearms for her device. Not necessary since it's already a powerful Archetype though.
    The thing to keep in mind is that the class is designed for 3.5 which lacks composite bows and the gunsmithing feat.

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    The thing to keep in mind is that the class is designed for 3.5 which lacks composite bows and the gunsmithing feat.

    Owrtho
    Er... Bows, you're wrong on.


    Also, this is looking good, Selinia.
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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by The-Mage-King View Post
    Er... Bows, you're wrong on.
    I should have been more clear in that 3.5 doesn't have them as a type distinct from shortbows and longbows.

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Well, there are Multiclass-feats for PF-classes, and Archetypes are a PF-concept.

    Anyway, examples of melee/ranged-weapon transformations in Nanoha:
    - Signums Sword transforms into a Bow at the end of A's
    - Teanas guns can be used as daggers in StrikerS


    Keep in mind that all this change would add is versatility.
    When you are Melee-focussed, your Bow will be weaker and less accurate than your melee attacks, and all you gain is a ranged attack that doesn't require motes.
    When you are ranged-focussed, your melee attack will likewise be weaker and inaccurate (unless you take another feat, Weapon Finesse). Granted, you can use Strikers - but you don't want to be in melee anyway.

    Heck, i think this feat should get the option to add a third device (at level 10). Visually and conceptually appealing, but doesn't add much more power to a charater (a character could have a reach, non-reach and ranged weapon, but that's not significantly stronger than having just one or two of those since you'll still be specialized for one of them).

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Personally, I don't think that allowing evolved device to grant melee or ranged weapons for magical girls who use the opposite would be too much intermixing. There are plenty of magical girl shows where the weapon swaps between a ranged and melee form. Further, the key difference is that spirit shooters have spirit shoot while lacking limit-form, while normal magical girls have the reverse. A normal magical girl would also still need to buy ammo. The main benefits to selecting a device form counter to your build would be getting the costume bonuses to it and not needing to put away the device and draw a normal weapon of the other type (you can just change the forms).
    I like the idea of one ranged and one melee device.

    I also really hope you add back in the original version of Vigil of Candles somewhere. It was just an awesome image.
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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Serafina View Post
    Well, there are Multiclass-feats for PF-classes, and Archetypes are a PF-concept.
    If I recall correctly, those feats were actually mostly made by other people in the thread (Prime32, for instance) and archetypes actually exist in 3.5, just not named or defined as such. PF archetypes are ultimately just a colection of alternate class features.
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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    No major additions tonight, but I've made some additional tweaks as detailed below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serafina View Post
    Hey, nice changes :)
    Made all the bad illuminations worthwhile. Now i have to go and change my ratings.

    Another thing that might qualify as an exploit (sorry that i didn't catch that before):
    When using Limit Form, you can use Glimmering Echo and then make your full attack, adding your Charisma bonus to all damage with said full attack.

    That makes this Illumination very powerful at higher levels for its cost. It depends on your hitting with the Strike itself, but that can be easily achieved with rerolls from the Lucky-CQ if needed.

    With a Charisma bonus of 10 (reasonable for a high-level MG), that would be about 30 extra damage (assuming that your main attack, your haste attack and your secondary attack hit) - on your own attack, plus whatever your allies do.
    Hardly gamebreaking IMO, just probably more powerful than intended for a first-level illumination.

    If you don't want that to happen, it can be fixed with a single modification:
    "This bonus damage does not apply to this strike or any other attacks you make this turn"
    Honestly? I don't mind that. It wasn't an intended interaction, but it doesn't strike me as an overpowered one. Limit Form in general is somewhat situation, since it effectively replaces an aura in your mote budget and makes it harder to regularly use the more powerful illuminations (and access their nasty status effects). Not to mention that by the time a magical girl has a bonus high enough to be getting that level of damage out of it, the rest of the adventuring party is going to be rolling in their own endgame features. Bards will be handing out fistfuls of inspire courage, Initiators/Manifesters/Casters will be getting their 8th and 9th level spell-equivalents, and everyone in general is going to be busy being awesome.

    If the combo came online sooner, I'd be more worried, but Limit Form doesn't even show up until the midgame. By that point pure damage has lost a lot of its luster, and high-damage tricks become much more acceptable.

    Edit: Rainbow road may need a note that it doesn't block movement if placed in mid-air. It's clearly not supposed to, but a quick addition like "these spaces do not count as obstacles and do not block movement" would make it clearer.
    Fair enough. Clarification made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serafina View Post
    Just took a look at the Archetypes.

    The Barrier Maiden ability of the Kofū Shōjo is strictly worse than Shrug it Off. My suggestion would be that the AC-Bonus applies to allies around her like an aura. Optionally only if she has her aura active, with a bonus depending on the level of the Aura.
    Interesting suggestion, which I went and split in half. When she has an aura up, the AC bonus applies to any ally in the aura as well as herself. When she uses a non-aura illumination, the AC bonus bumps up for a turn. It's potentially a very potent boost, though it still relies on the Kofū Shōjo managing her motes carefully.

    The Spirit Shooter could use an option for Composite Longbows and a free Gunsmithing-feat when selecting Firearms for her device. Not necessary since it's already a powerful Archetype though.
    The spirit shooter can now properly repair her ranged device, though she still can't make other firearms like it. I've also made it explicit that the archetype's weapons refer to the Pathfinder firearm system. I'm sure there are 3.5 rules for firearms (actually, several sets of them that I can think of), but the pathfinder set has the huge advantage of being openly available on their SRD.

    The Mist Breaker could really use the Monks Unarmed Damage Progression (without it, unarmed attacks are strictly worse than armed ones).
    This doesn't seem like it would hurt anything, considering how mild that progression is. I've also tossed in the monk's no-off-hand-attacks clause, mainly to be able to mix in kicks and martial arts with the pure fisticuffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Personally, I don't think that allowing evolved device to grant melee or ranged weapons for magical girls who use the opposite would be too much intermixing. There are plenty of magical girl shows where the weapon swaps between a ranged and melee form. Further, the key difference is that spirit shooters have spirit shoot while lacking limit-form, while normal magical girls have the reverse. A normal magical girl would also still need to buy ammo. The main benefits to selecting a device form counter to your build would be getting the costume bonuses to it and not needing to put away the device and draw a normal weapon of the other type (you can just change the forms).

    It might also be worth noting how evolved device interacts with twinned device. Do both devices have to remain in the same form, or may one be in the evolved form and the other in the normal form?
    Some good arguments were made all around, and Evolved Device now allows a magical girl to choose something outside her ordinary weapon type. I've also clarified the interaction of that feat with Twinned Device - namely, that you can shift each of your devices freely, so long as you keep them one-handed devices.

    Unrelated, spirit shooters seem to lack any support in the area of strike illuminations. While spirit shoot is nice, some illuminations to add choice effects to attacks like strikes would be useful.
    Strike illuminations are, by and large, melee attacks. It's one of their primary traits, so I'm not sure that any spirit shooter is ever going to be getting too much use out of strikes. There are a good number of ranged illuminations for them to focus on, after all, not to mention the heavy mote investment of Spirit Shot.

    That said, there are far fewer purely ranged illuminations than there could be. When I get a chance to write up more, expect to see some focus in that area.
    I also figured I'd ask, spirit shoot notes that character abilities reducing reload time make the mote cost go down, but would this also apply to temporary reductions of reload time, such as maneuvers that make your reloading faster for a given duration? An example would be the Black Tempest maneuver.
    I'm going to say yes on this. The restriction is primarily just to keep item abuse out - I didn't want someone getting a major discount from a handful of dirt-cheap paper cartridges (though they're still useful to have for mundane shooting).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    I like the idea of one ranged and one melee device.

    I also really hope you add back in the original version of Vigil of Candles somewhere. It was just an awesome image.
    Vigil of Candles is effectively the same as it was, just not quite as overpowering. The original, or a close variant of it, is likely to crop up at a higher illumination level where the hefty effect can be more appropriately priced.
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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Selinia View Post
    Vigil of Candles is effectively the same as it was, just not quite as overpowering. The original, or a close variant of it, is likely to crop up at a higher illumination level where the hefty effect can be more appropriately priced.
    It was the overpoweringness I liked!

    Well, more the potential. Most of the time it'd be a 3-5 bonus, but there's always the POTENTIAL of a +10.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    I have just reformatted the Handbook - aside from a common layout, i also split it into several seperate documents, since that is easier to handle in many cases. A complete, one-document version will be provided once i have finished most of it.

    Part 1
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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    According to this, any archetype that replaces the Device and Device - Limit Form abilities doesn't actually have an equivalent for Limit Form. Intentional?
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    I would like to propose a feat:

    Wing Road
    Prerequisites: Ability to evoke level two Illuminations
    Benefits: Your Rainbow road no longer dissipates when you place another one. Instead, you can pay 1 mote per turn to sustain all instances of your Rainbow Road - if you do not pay that cost, all but one instances dissipate. You can only maintain up to one instance of Rainbow Road per two Evoker levels. The range of Rainbow Road increases to Medium (100+10/Evoker Level ft.). Rainbow Road is always prepared and does not count against your limit of prepared Illuminations.



    Why? Well, aside from being visually awesome, it'd allow more complex tactical setups with Rainbow Road. The main benefit of Rainbow road is the faster movement speed (you have easy acces to flight at that level already, and we all know that it'll be common at higher levels). - the way it is currently constructed it will mostly benefit you and maybe allies that move in the same direction. This feat would allow you to use it in a much more tactical manner.
    Since it only applies to one specific Illumination, it's only be fair that you always have it prepared as well.

    Thoughts?

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    It would also allow you to create a long, winding race track...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Just for the fun of it, representing the cast of Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS with these rules:

    Nanoha: Straight-up Magial Girl 20. Radiant Soul, Martial Evoker feats. Longspear-device.
    Fate: Magical Girl 20. Evolved Device Feat, Bardiche&Scythe. Lots of points in quick costume. Some melee feats.
    Signum: Magical Girl 13/Magus 3. Busou Shojo Feat, War Warder Archetype. Heavy Costume feat & Mithral Plate Armor. Evolved Device Feat, Greatsword&Scorpion Whip.
    Vita: Magical Girl 13/Magus 3. Busou Shojo Feat, Kensai-Archetype. Pistol Maul device (Greathammer with better Sundering). Lots of points in oversized device.
    Shamal: Magical Girl 13/cleric 3. Kofu Shojo Archetype. Healing&Knowledge Domain. Sacred Champion Feat, Merciful Healer Archetype. No weapon device. Various Channeling Feats.
    Subaru: Magial Girl 12. Mistbreaker Archetype. Gauntlet (not as a device though). Wing Road Feat.
    Teana: Magical Girl 10/Gunslinger 2. Spirit Shooter & Mysterious Stranger Archetype. Twinned&Evolved Device, Pistol&Short Sword. Two-Weapon Fighting.
    Caro: Summoner 12 (i wish i could work Magical Girl into this somehow, but Summoner really works best for her).
    Erio: Magial Girl 12 (despite being male). Lance Device. Ranks in Ride, rides Caros Eidolon. Mounted Combat&Charger feats.
    Hayate: No idea how to represent her - Leadership&Bombardment magic don't translate well into rules.
    Last edited by Serafina; 2012-06-30 at 06:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    My idea for a Belkan Cartridge System à la Lyrical Nanoha. Can just as easily use Pearls, Charms or similar items, depending on the style of your Magical Girl. It's partially based on the Pathfinder Magus Arcane Pool&Arcana.
    Please review!


    Cartridge System: Your connection to your inner light is more worldly than that of other Magical Girls. However, that doesn't mean it is weaker - while it is harder for you to call forth huge amounts of radiant energy, you have learned how to store it in small foci and release it whenever you need it to achieve extraordinary results.

    At third level, you learn how to store small amounts of magical energy in small items, such as pearls, trinkets or cartridges. You can explosively release that energy to enhance your Illuminations. This ability replaces Radiant Focus.

    You can prepare a number of Cartridges daily equal to 1/2 your Evoker level + your Charisma modifier. You can prepare new cartridges once per day as part of changing your Illuminations. Unspent cartridges do not vanish at the end of the day, but you can never exceed your daily cartridges that way.

    One or more Cartridges can be spent whenever you activate an Illumination. The action required and effects depend on the Illumination. The amount of Cartridges you can expend on a single Illumination is limited by your Maximum Costume Bonus and can never exceed 4.
    Strike For each Cartridge expended, you gain a bonus to attack rolls during your turn equal to 1/2 your Maximum Costume Bonus (minimum 1). If you spend two Cartridges your effective Charisma modifier increases by 1 for the purpose of this Strike. If you spend four Cartridges it increases by 2 instead. This is a Swift Action.
    Blast: If you expend one Cartridge, the damage die of your Illumination increase by one step. If you expend two Cartridges, your Illumination deals bleed damage equal to the Blasts number of damage die. If you expend three Cartridges, the Blast becomes Empowered. If you expend four Cartridges, the DC of the Blast (if any) increases by 2. All effects are cumulative. This is a move action.
    Burst: For each Cartridge expended, your effective Charisma modifier increases by one for the purpose of determining the effect of the Burst. This is a free action.
    Aura: For each Cartridge expended, the radius of your Aura expends by 10 ft. If you expend at least two Cartridges, you can anchor the Aura to an area - it emanates from one square you select as if you would occupy that square, instead of emanating from you. If you expend three Cartridges, you can anchor the Aura to a creature - it emanates from that Creature instead of you. If you expand four Cartridges, you can spend a move action each turn instead of paying the mote cost to maintain the Aura. All effects are cumulative. This is a Standard Action.

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    I built this around the concept of explosive, decisive attacks - in exchange for endurance. Loosing Radiant Focus means you are limited by your innate mote regeneration, which means that you'll quickly run out of steam in an encounter. In exchange you can deliver more devastating attacks - but only every so often per day. I sincerely hope it's balanced, so please review!
    Last edited by Serafina; 2012-07-01 at 10:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    Alternate Version for the Cartridge System, using feats:

    Cartridge System:
    You have learned to store some of your magic in small trinkets and use them to enhance your Device.
    Prerequisite: Radiant Focus
    Benefits:You gain the Magus Arcane Pool class feature. You use your Charisma instead of Intelligence to determine the size of your Arcane Pool and the effect of any of your Arcana.
    Special: If you gain the Arcane Pool class feature from any other class, your class levels in Magical Girl and that class stack. You must choose which attribute deterimes size and effect of your Arcane Pool&Arcana.

    Explosion!
    You have learned how to power your attacks by rapidly expending Cartridges.
    Prerequisite: Cartridge System
    Benefit: You can learn one Magus Arcana. Count your Magical Girl level as levels in Magus for the purpose of selecting your Arcana. You can only learn Arcana that requires the expenditure of Arcane Pool points.
    Special: You can select this feat multiple times. Each time you must select one new Arcana.

    New Arcana:

    Maximized Illumination:
    Prerequisite: Magical Girl 12
    Benefit: You can maximize an Illumination by spending three points from your Arcane Pool. If that Illumination is a strike, the damage die of your melee attack that is part of that strike is also maximized


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    This is definitely simpler than the Archetype-version, and probably more balanced as well. It also adds a large amount of customization choices to the Magical Girl.
    Last edited by Serafina; 2012-07-01 at 12:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Friendship Through Superior Firepower! Magical Girl Base Class, Set Up! [3.5]

    In the non-feat version you need to specify if the benefits are cumulative for auras.

    For the feats under Explosion you want "expending" not "expanding".
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