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  1. - Top - End - #391
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFallenOne View Post
    That is confirming what I said. To Rick, Carl's outlook on life > group's security.
    Still not seeing how Carl's outlook on life could be related to what Rick thinks is good for the group I see.
    Thanks to Elrond for the Vash avatar.

  2. - Top - End - #392
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathis View Post
    I think we can't bring the discussion regarding Hershel being a liability or not any further unfortunately. Feels like I'm going to have to start repeating myself
    As do I, so I just leave it with this

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFallenOne View Post
    Walkers attack. Hershel said don't kill Walkers or you have to leave my farm. The problem is evident.
    If you can't see it, I can't help you.


    I also think Rick puts the safety and well-being of his son before the group. However, the two are so connected they might as well be one, so I don't think that makes him a worse leader at all.
    The connection falls apart when he values his son's outlook on life over the physical safety of the group.
    I can understand valueing your son's life over the life of someone else, that's only human. But this goes so much further.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverent-One View Post
    Still not seeing how Carl's outlook on life could be related to what Rick thinks is good for the group I see.
    The rationale you provided was made up out of thin air and you failed to provide any actual evidence after I explicitly asked for it. Thus I see no reason to address it further.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff the Green View Post
    Actually, when you first put up the post where the gazebo started trying to eat us, I assumed you were pulling our legs and you'd put up the real post soon enough.


  3. - Top - End - #393
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFallenOne View Post
    The rationale you provided was made up out of thin air and you failed to provide any actual evidence after I explicitly asked for it. Thus I see no reason to address it further.
    Coming to the defence of that statement here. Supporting Reverent, and I think that our interpretation is most definately not pulled out of thin air. Rick was obviously (to me) concerned about the way he was raising his son, if you can't see it then that's that. Nothing to discuss there. Both I and Reverent explained to you two somewhat similar interpretations of the situation. He did give you his evidence in his stating his interpretation. Only problem is that it's hard to prove an interpretation.
    Last edited by Mathis; 2012-03-21 at 09:53 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #394
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFallenOne View Post
    The rationale you provided was made up out of thin air and you failed to provide any actual evidence after I explicitly asked for it. Thus I see no reason to address it further.
    You mean as opposed to your rationale, which theorizes that Rick is unable to eliminate a threat solely because his son wants him too. Do you also think he would be unable to kill a walker if Carl wanted to watch him do it? Or the two guys he shot in the bar? If not, what is the difference? My reasoning fits the character, given Rick's previous statements like "Life is sacred", while yours ascribes a previously unseen performance anxiety to Rick when it comes to gunplay.
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  5. - Top - End - #395
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathis View Post
    Coming to the defence of that statement here. Supporting Reverent, and I think that our interpretation is most definately not pulled out of thin air. Rick was obviously (to me) concerned about the way he was raising his son, if you can't see it then that's that.
    We don't disagree here, but the statement you supposedly defend said way more. Let me repeat it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverent-One View Post
    Because his son's outlook showed him the problems with his "Oh, it might be a threat? Better shoot it just in case." approach, specifically the effect following that approach has on people, for example on his son. It made him question why he's following that approach if it's one he wouldn't want his son to have. It's not the way a society should operate.
    We have here not only how he raises his son, but also
    Questioning the general approach to threats.
    The effect of it on people other than Carl.
    How society is supposed to work.

    That is the conjecture I criticized. Far as I can see, it was all about how his son grows up and sees life.

    And that in turn is my criticism of Rick's leadership. A leader's ultimate decision shouldn't be determined by how he raises his son. In a damn apocalypse there are way more important things to worry about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff the Green View Post
    Actually, when you first put up the post where the gazebo started trying to eat us, I assumed you were pulling our legs and you'd put up the real post soon enough.


  6. - Top - End - #396
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFallenOne View Post

    We have here not only how he raises his son, but also
    Questioning the general approach to threats.
    The effect of it on people other than Carl.
    How society is supposed to work.

    That is the conjecture I criticized. Far as I can see, it was all about how his son grows up and sees life.

    And that in turn is my criticism of Rick's leadership. A leader's ultimate decision shouldn't be determined by how he raises his son. In a damn apocalypse there are way more important things to worry about.
    Why should a leader not try to create a world/society they'd want their children to live in? Isn't that the ultimate measure of what they think is right? Why do you think the two are entirely unrelated?
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  7. - Top - End - #397
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverent-One View Post
    You mean as opposed to your rationale, which theorizes that Rick is unable to eliminate a threat solely because his son wants him too. Do you also think he would be unable to kill a walker if Carl wanted to watch him do it? Or the two guys he shot in the bar? If not, what is the difference? My reasoning fits the character, given Rick's previous statements like "Life is sacred", while yours ascribes a previously unseen performance anxiety to Rick when it comes to gunplay.
    Putting words into someone else's mouth and then making these words he never said sound absurd to 'prove' your opponent wrong is the most incivil and cheap thing you can do in a discussion short of shouting forum-inappropriate words. What I actually said was

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFallenOne View Post
    In the end, he spared Randal to the detriment of the group's safety because he didn't like how jaded his son has become.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFallenOne View Post
    In the end, he let Randal go because his son wanted to watch the execution. To him, his son's outlook on life was more valuable than the security of the group.
    You either failed to understand what I said or are wilfully misrepresenting me in an absurd way.
    Either way, I expect an apology.
    Last edited by TheFallenOne; 2012-03-21 at 10:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff the Green View Post
    Actually, when you first put up the post where the gazebo started trying to eat us, I assumed you were pulling our legs and you'd put up the real post soon enough.


  8. - Top - End - #398
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Ah I see. It's currently 4.am where I am, and the lack of coffee in my system is starting to make an effect. I should have seen that. I'll come back after some rest and see where this has gone. Very interesting question posed by Reverent however, will ponder it until the sun rises.

  9. - Top - End - #399
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFallenOne View Post
    We don't disagree here, but the statement you supposedly defend said way more. Let me repeat it.



    We have here not only how he raises his son, but also
    Questioning the general approach to threats.
    The effect of it on people other than Carl.
    How society is supposed to work.

    That is the conjecture I criticized. Far as I can see, it was all about how his son grows up and sees life.

    And that in turn is my criticism of Rick's leadership. A leader's ultimate decision shouldn't be determined by how he raises his son. In a damn apocalypse there are way more important things to worry about.
    Maybe to you, but to me, in an apocalypse, maintaining some form of humanity, and trying to allow your children to be normal(and thus, not witnessing you execute a living, breathing human being) is all that DOES matter.

    To take it a step further, killing Randal would have made Rick more like Shane(and it's pretty obvious that becoming more like Shane is a pretty awful thing). Carls wanting to watch him kill Randal made Rick step back from this and realize "Omg, I'm becoming a soulless bastard, which is exactly what Shane wants"(Yes, I'm reading into it). By deciding to not kill Randal, not only was he not really compromising the safety of the group(again, see my previous argument as to why Randal was not a threat, and the way they were going to handle him was just fine), he was setting a good example for others in such a dark time, and reminding them to maintain their humanity. I do not believe this compromises Rick's leadership in any sort of way. I firmly believe(and with concrete evidence to back me up, ie: The Bar), that Rick would have no problem dealing with an actual threat, be it walker or living person, whether his son was watching or not.

    So, IN the end, no, I don't think his leadership is compromised, nor do I believe it was a bad thing that he let his son wanting to watch sway him from killing Randal. It was a good thing, for him, for his son, for the group over-all.
    Last edited by Starwulf; 2012-03-21 at 10:33 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #400
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFallenOne View Post
    Putting words into someone else's mouth and then making these words he never said sound absurd to 'prove' your opponent wrong is the most incivil and cheap thing you can do in a discussion. What I actually said was





    You either failed to understand what I said or are wilfully misrepresenting me in an absurd way.
    Either way, I expect an apology.
    So you're saying he can't eliminate a threat (since he "spared Randal to the detriment of the group's safety") solely because his son wants him too ("because he didn't like how jaded his son has become."). If I am misinterpreting what you're saying, it's because you are being very unclear. The statements sound virtually identical to me. If your problem is with the final sentence, then I need further explanation of your stance, since if it's not that Carl's response showed the problems from a moral standpoint of killing another human being just because they might be a threat later (my stance), why would he be unable to kill Randal with Carl removed from the scene? And to explore whatever alternative explanation you have in more detail, would there be any difference if the threat was a walker or the two guys in the bar instead of Randal?
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  11. - Top - End - #401
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Alright so I finally got around to watching the finale, and I'll admit I've not read the comic but now that I know the structure at the end of the finale is a prison, can someone please explain to me how next season wont be more of the same with the characters kicking up their heels with a false sense of security in a new location?

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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by blackspeeker View Post
    Alright so I finally got around to watching the finale, and I'll admit I've not read the comic but now that I know the structure at the end of the finale is a prison, can someone please explain to me how next season wont be more of the same with the characters kicking up their heels with a false sense of security in a new location?
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    Because there are people at the prison who aren't friendly like Hershel's people.
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    That was an awesome end to the season.
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    I loved the whole thing. Finally some epic action and finally they have moved on from the farm. I was getting sick of the farm towards the end of the season. I got chills when I saw the prison at the end of the show.

    I am super excited about Michonne turning up (or whatever her name is). Maybe we'll get to see the govenor soon.

    One thing that irked me just a tad was how accurate they were when shooting from their vehicles. I get that they have had some training but damn they are good shots.


    @blackspeeker It'll be much the same. Fighting zombies having troubles. There will be some more inter group warring though so that should spice things up. (At least there will be if they stick roughly to the comics.)
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  14. - Top - End - #404
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    The shooting seems awing at first, but I have a friend whose Dad is a cop. The guy says he's gone with Dad all his life to the shooting range, but never amounted to much... then for his birthday he got a gaming system and all summer did nothing but shoot-em-up games.

    He goes back to the range and says he can hit dead-on every shot without effort.

    Basically, some gamers, and in this case zombie slayers, likely get in more actual shooting time than most professionals. Even seasoned veterans are unlikely to ever shoot more than a few dozen in their careers. For zombie slayers, a few dozen in a week is standard and they still have the physical bodies and relative movements of a human.

    Maybe to you, but to me, in an apocalypse, maintaining some form of humanity, and trying to allow your children to be normal(and thus, not witnessing you execute a living, breathing human being) is all that DOES matter.
    What is normal? Normal is what Lori still thinks it is. Normal is complacent, lazy and well-fed... in her world. Most of the rest of the world is nothing like us. Normal is much closer to zombie-world.

    And what is 'humanity'? You know what humanity is? Humanity is dark, and its brutal and its cunning. The word has gotten so twisted of late.

    Now, staying decent? That's a different thing. However, decent does not mean soft. Decent does not mean 'nice'. You shoot the guy who threatens, but you EXPLAIN to the kid why. Why there are some reasons to kill another thinking, living human being. You make them respect life so much that when they take it, they feel and understand the full impact of it.

    The old 'a true warrior hates war' mentality.

    There is so much wishy-washiness in this world, and it's because we don't know when or when not to act.

    You lay down a solid foundation and say 'This is the exception that proves the rule. You love mankind. You love life in general. When you kill, you make sure you do it humanely and for the right reasons, unhesitatingly.'

    That's the way to survive in that word AND remain a good, decent human being. Again, not by holding back your hand, but by teaching when and why you must'nt.
    Last edited by Joxer t' Mighty; 2012-03-24 at 11:32 AM.
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  15. - Top - End - #405
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Season 3 just came out. And what an episode to start it on. Clearly there have been some action we've missed between the 2 seasons since alot of time has passed. And they are now officially in the prison.

    Also, if you're bit and you cut off the limb that was bit quick enough, will you not develop a fever, die, and become a walker?

    (Also, using walkers as your pack mules? I love it!)
    Last edited by Silverraptor; 2012-10-15 at 12:28 AM.
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    Also, if you're bit and you cut off the limb that was bit quick enough, will you not develop a fever, die, and become a walker?
    I can't say with certainty that it won't save you-know-who's life, but I doubt it.

    Y'know, for creatures that are supposedly akin to dumb animals, the Walking Dead are awfully good at stealth and playing possum.
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  17. - Top - End - #407
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Candle Jack View Post
    I can't say with certainty that it won't save you-know-who's life, but I doubt it.

    Y'know, for creatures that are supposedly akin to dumb animals, the Walking Dead are awfully good at stealth and playing possum.
    As I understand it, they get bored really easily and really bad to the point where they just suspend into the closest thing they can to being asleep and when sometime touches them, they break out into attack mode because its the most exciting thing they've seen in months and they're all out of sudoku.
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    Also, if you're bit and you cut off the limb that was bit quick enough, will you not develop a fever, die, and become a walker?

    (Also, using walkers as your pack mules? I love it!)
    The idea is that there's some sort of incredibly lethal bacteria or parasite growing on the plague and in the saliva of roamers. When they bite someone, all that bacteria invades the body at an alarming rate, slowly (or very quickly) killing them. In three occasions (well, four, if you count one accidental incident) in the comic, it's been used to stop zombification. In two incidents, the person in question died from the blood loss rather than the infection.
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    Default AMC and The Walking Dead

    Halleluah, AMC and Dish Network settled their lawsuit today, at around 5pm. I found this out by happening to turn to "Jeepers Creepers" without realizing it was AMC. My wife noticed that in the corner of the screen it said "The Walking Dead, tonight at 9pm". She went and looked it up, and it said that "Dish Network and AMC settled their lawsuit an hour ago(that was at 6pm). So absolutely thrilled, I thought that we were going to have wait for the entire third season to be over and then buy it on DVD, but huzzah!, it's back on Dish!

    So, after watching the first and 2nd episode of the third season, I have one thing to say/ask:
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    Who here watched the previews for the third episode? If you did, the last guy they show, the guy who is putting a finger to his mouth as to say "Shh", who thinks that looks like Merle?? I swear it's him! This could make this season very interesting, and provides all sorts of drama between him and Rick, and him and Daryl, and Daryl and Rick.
    Ahhh SO STOKED! WALKING DEAD IS BACK BABY!
    Last edited by Starwulf; 2012-10-21 at 09:21 PM.

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    Default Re: AMC and The Walking Dead

    excited myself. And they said on the talking dead that they were bring him back, so it very well could be him.

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    I hope Michonne dies brutally quickly. God I hate the very idea of her.


    I am reserving judgement for now, but I am starting to hate Rick and I'm expecting to decide that I hate the newest season fairly quickly.

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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    So, we successfully went down from 5 prison inmates to 2 in one episode. Not to mention a lot of zombies got put down for good this time. Anything I may have missed that is noteworthy?
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Carl was badass. Lori did something useful.
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    Yeah, Carl is developing nicely. I'm also happy T-Dog is now visible and actually speaks couple times per episode. In the past he was more like a living prop sometimes.

    The innates' first charge at the Walkers was hilarious

    As well as the opening. Prisoners think they're crazy when they open the door again, they just say "We got this" and Dawg casually disposes of a Walker in full riot gear. I loved their 'Who the hell are these badasses' looks.
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    So, Governor is too good to be true. Don't know why he would kill the soldiers. They probably could've been used as extra man power for defense. Also, the governor probably shot down the helecopter.

    I was also really fascinated that cutting off the walkers jaws put them into docile mode. In addition, I'm suprised that walkers can starve. Does this imply that they will die on their own of starvation eventually, even though its a long way off?
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    I'd guess that he wanted them taken out because wanted to be the top dog, and while they could have helped with security it would hurt his megalomania, because his people might put their gratitude and faith in them. Also the army men would probably want to take over or the people would want them to take over.

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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    The Governor will dispose of anyone who may challenge his authority. Not the community, mind you, just his authority. The well-armed and organized military unit were a potential threat.
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    hello inevitable conflict with rick
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    I admit, Rick's blubbering made me tear up a bit.
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    Default Re: Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

    While i have some problems with childbirth as emergency every damned time in t.v. shows, there was some good acting. Ever since i listened to Lori's actress being interviewed on the CBC's "Q" show, i've liked her more.

    Last night's show was brutal.

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