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    Default The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    This is my first serious attempt at a base class. I appreciate all critiques.

    That said, here's the Fencer.

    Fencer-

    Fencers are armed monks. They regard swordplay as an art, and often devote their lives to perfecting it. To them, every nuance and flourish in a battle is a symphony, and it is their job to perfect the work. As a rule, they despise inefficiency in their art, and fight with an economy that no fighter can match.

    Adventures- Fencers often take up adventuring in an attempt to test their prowess. They typically care little for the rewards and excitement that adventuring may bring, and see it as a single test which they must strive to complete.
    Alignment- Any. Although most famous fencers are lawful in alignment, any person can learn to fence.
    Religion- Fencers rarely worship a single god, though they may give occasional homage to gods of strength, wit or knowledge.
    Background- Rare is the self taught fencer. Most fencers learn their art from a master over the course of many years, in return for essentially being his slave. They only leave his service when they feel that they need what he cannot provide.
    Fencers see each other as walking tests. It is common for two fencers to make each otherís acquaintance by dueling.
    Races- Elves are most commonly fencers. Their long lives allow them to perfect and learn about their art to a greater degree than any other race. Humans and half-elves are occasionally fencers, though their comparatively short life-times makes it difficult for them to achieve mastery in fencing before the effects of old-age catch up to them.
    Among other races, fencers are almost unheard of.
    Other Classes- Fencers deal with individuals free of bias, for the most part. They typically monitor their relationships in regard to who they seem useful. If a fencer believes that another person is hampering his art, he will sever the relationship without a second thought.

    {table=head]
    Level | BAB | Ref | Will | Fort | Special

    1 | +1 | +2 | +0 | +0 | Canny Defense, Weapon Finesse, Called Blow, Precise Strike +1d6
    2 | +2 | +3 | +0 | +0 | Defensive Stance
    3 | +3 | +3 | +1 | +1 | Insightful Strike, Duel
    4 | +4 | +4 | +1 | +1 | Precise Strike +2d6, Keen Eyes
    5 | +5 | +4 | +1 | +1 | Combat Expertise
    6 | +6 | +5 | +2 | +2 | Evasive Reflexes, Called Shot (Hand and Foot)
    7 | +7 | +5 | +2 | +2 | Precise Strike +3d6, Circular Parry
    8 | +8 | +6 | +2 | +2 | Improved Dueling, Fleche
    9 | +9 | +6 | +3 | +3 | Explosion of Blows, Insightful Feint
    10 | +10 | +7 | +3 | +3 | Masterful Parry, Precise Strike +4d6
    11 | +11 | +7 | +3 | +3 | Called Shot (Body Center)
    12 | +12 | +8 | +4 | +4 | Aggressive Feint
    13 | +13 | +8 | +4 | +4 | Precise Strike +5d6
    14 | +14 | +9 | +4 | +4 | Masterful Dueling
    15 | +15 | +9 | +5 | +5 | Displacement
    16 | +16 | +10 | +5 | +5 | Precise Strike +6d6
    17 | +17 | +10 | +5 | +5 | Upset Rhythm
    18 | +18 | +11 | +6 | +6 | Called Shot (Head)
    19 | +19 | +11 | +6 | +6 | Precise Strike +7d6
    20 | +20 | +12 | +6 | +6 | Critical Mastery
    [/table]

    Game Rule Information-
    Fencers have the following game statistics.
    Abilities- Dexterity and Intelligence determine the AC of the fencer, as well as his chance to hit. Constitution is necessary for greater hit points as well as an improved fortitude save.
    Alignment- Any
    Hit Die- d10
    Class skills of the fencer are as follows- Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Any) (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Martial Lore (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Any) (Wis), Search (int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex).
    Skill points at first level- (6+Int modifier)*4
    Skill Points at each additional level- 6+Int Modifier

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency- The Fencer is proficient all simple and martial weapons. A fencer gains no proficiency with armor.

    Canny Defense- When not wearing armor or using a shield, a fencer adds 1 point of Intelligence bonus (if any) per fencer class level to his Dexterity bonus to modify Armor Class while wielding a melee weapon. If a fencer is caught flat-footed or otherwise denied his Dexterity bonus, he also loses this bonus.

    Weapon Finesse- As the feat

    Called Blow- A fencer may chose any attack to be a called blow. If he does, he will deal damage normally but cannot reduce an opponents health to below 0.

    Precise Strike- At 1st level, and every three levels after, a fencer gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing weapon, dealing an extra 1d6 damage + 1d6 per three levels after first. Note that this is not extra damage- it is an increase to the base damage dealt, and thus is multiplied on critical hits.

    When making a precise strike, a fencer cannot use a shield. A fencerís precise strike only works against living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to a precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise strike.

    Defensive Stance- As a full-round action, the fencer may focus his attention against one target. Should the target attempt to attack the fencer in melee, he and the fencer make opposed attack rolls. Should the target succeed, the attack is carried out as normal, but with a +2 bonus to attack and damage. Should the fencer succeed, the attack is diverted and the fencer may make an immediate attack of opportunity against the target. This attack of opportunity counts against the fencer's Attacks of Opportunity per round, but does not prevent the fencer from making another attack of opportunity against the target. This ability only functions while the fencer is armed.

    Insightful Strike- Starting at third level, the fencer adds his intelligence bonus (if any) to damage.

    Duel- If, in a given round, the fencer attacks only one target and is attacked by only that target, he may chose to enter a duel with that target. While in a duel, the fencer gains a +4 dodge bonus to AC against his target, but a -2 penalty to AC against all other combatants. In addition, he gains an +4 insight bonus to bluff and intimidate checks used to feint and demoralize that target, as well as a +2 Insight bonus to attack. Should his target flee (in game terms, take an entire round without taking any offensive or defensive action against the fencer), the duel is ended and the fencer gains a +2 Morale Bonus to attack, damage, saves, skills and initiative for a number of rounds equal to his fencer class level. A duel may be entered by the fencer 3+Int Modifier times per day.

    If another combatant succeeds in hitting the fencer, the fencer must make a DC 25 Concentration check or the duel ends. Should the duel end in this fashion, the fencer gains no morale bonuses.

    The duel can be ended as a free action, should the fencer will it.

    At 8th level, the fencer no longer takes a penalty to AC vs. attacks from creatures other than his target. At fourteenth level, he may enter a duel any number of times per day.

    Keen Eyes (Su) Starting at 4th level, the fencer's becomes so perceptive that he can strike those that he may otherwise have missed. Whenever he suffers a miss chance on his attack roll, the fencer rolls twice and takes the better result. Starting at 12th level, the fencer ignores cover (but not total cover) and suffers no miss chance from concealment or total concealment on his attack roll. He must still target the correct square when attacking an opponent he cannot see.

    Combat Expertise- as per the feat. If the fencer already has expertise, he may select any feat which has it as a prerequisite, provided that he meets the prerequisites.

    Called Shot- Starting at sixth level, the fencer gains the ability to make called shots. As a standard action, the fencer may make a single attack at his full base attack bonus, with a penalty depending on where he's aiming for. This attack will produce a unique effect based on where the fencer hits, according to the following.

    Hand- When using this ability, the fencer deals 1d6 extra precise strike damage. In addition, the fencer may chose to immediately make a disarm check against his target which does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Using this called shot bestows a -2 penalty to attack.

    Foot- The target must succeed a Reflex save (DC 10+1/2 Fencer's Level+Dex Modifier) or be caught flat-footed by this attack. If they fail their save, the fencer may deal half again the normal precise strike damage, rounded down. Their speed is then reduced by 10 ft. for 1 round/fencer class level. This called shot bestows a -2 to attack,

    Body Center- Upon a successful hit, the target must succeed a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 Fencer's Class Level+Fencer's Dex Mod) or be stunned for one round. Should they fail this save, the fencer may take an immediate attack of opportunity against them. This called shot bestows a -4 to attack,

    Head- The target must succeed a Reflex Save, DC 10+1/2 Fencer's Level+Fencer's Dex modifier, or take double damage from the attack and be blinded for rounds equal to the fencer's dex mod. Should they fail this save by more than 10, they are instead blinded for days equal to the fencer's dex mod, and permanently lose one eye of the fencer's choosing. This called shot bestows a -8 to attack.

    Evasive Reflexes- The fencer may, once per round, take a five foot as an immediate action. However, he is treated as having taken a move action in his next turn, as if he had moved his base movement speed. Should the fencer use this ability in reaction to attack, the attack automatically misses.

    Circular Parry- At 7th level, the fencer gains the ability to make a circular parry. By expending one of his attacks of opportunity for the round, he may attempt to deflect any ranged attack targeted at him. The fencer must make an opposed attack roll against the projectile. On a success, he deflects the attack, preventing it from hitting him. This ability can also be used to deflect a magic missile or similar spells. The fencer must attempt an attack roll against a caster level check of the caster. On a success, the attack is diverted away from the fencer. This ability can be used validly on any spell which requires a ranged attack, such as lightning bolt or disintegrate, but not on area spells like fireball. Additionally, it can affect magic missile.

    This ability must be used after the action has been declared, but before attacks have been rolled.

    Fleche As a full-round action, the fencer may attempt to fleche against any target within his base land speed-10 ft. Firstly, he charges his target. This movement provokes no attacks of opportunity. He may then make a single attack against his opponent at his full base attack bonus, with the +2 from charging. The opponent must succeed a DC 10+Fencer Level reflex save or be caught flat footed by this attack. If the target fails his save, he is shaken for one round. After the attack is resolved, the fencer continues to move 10 ft. in a straight line past the target.

    Explosion of Blows- As a full-round action, a fencer of 9th level or higher may make an explosion of blows. In order to use this ability, he must first make a full-round action studying his opponent. For the duration of his next turn, the fencer may, as a swift action, take a full attack against any one opponent within his reach. His target is considered flat-footed against all of these attacks.

    Insightful Feint- The fencer gains the Improved Feint feat as a bonus feat. If he already has this feat, he may instead chose any feat for which he meets the prerequisites. Should the fencer succeed in feinting against a target, his next attack deals double damage. Note that this benefit is provided only after the fencer feints. The fencer still deals damage as normal against creatures who are flat-footed for other reasons.

    Masterful Parry- Starting at tenth level, when the fencer fights defensively he may take a -2 to attack and double the dodge bonus provided by fighting defensively.

    Aggressive Feint- Starting at eleventh level, the fencer can manipulate his opponents into falling for his feints more easily. If any creature was dealt damage by the fencer, they gain a penalty to sense motive checks to not fall for his feints equal to half his fencer level. This penalty does not stack with itself, and lasts for five rounds.

    Displacement Starting at 15th level, the fencer's steps allow him to glide over the ground. He gains a permanent +10 ft. untyped bonus to his base land speed. In addition, any time where he would normally be permitted to take a five foot step, he may instead move ten feet. This movement need not be in a line, provided that he does not end in the square he originally occupied.

    Upset Rhythm- In battle, an opponent can only retreat at a certain rate. The fencer may take advantage of this by following his opponent at a slightly faster rate, upsetting his movement and gaining a free attack in the process. Leaving a square threatened by a fencer, even when withdrawing or making a five foot step, provokes an attack of opportunity from the fencer. It is still possible to tumble, but DCs are increased by the fencer's level. If the attack of opportunity hits, the fencer may, as an immediate action, move into the target's square. The target must then make a reflex save (DC 10+Fencer Level) or fall prone. On a success, the target is instead shunted aside to a square adjacent to the fencer.

    Critical Mastery- Starting at 20th level, when wielding a weapon with which he can precise strike, the fencer may chose to either double the critical threat range of the weapon, or to improve the damage dealt by one step. For example, while wielding a rapier, he may opt to either have a 15-20 x2 critical or a 18-20 x3 critical. Although this ability stacks with keen or improved critical, it cannot increase a weapon's threat range beyond 15-20 and cannot increase the multiplier beyond x4.
    Last edited by Othesemo; 2011-12-20 at 07:36 PM.
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    looks like a re skinned swash buckler, with less focus on acrobatics and more on damage. an interesting variant.
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    looks like a re skinned swash buckler, with less focus on acrobatics and more on damage. an interesting variant.
    More or less, yes. Weapon finesse and insightful strike, in particular, seemed apt for a fencer. I also borrowed a few abilities from the Duelist (for obvious reasons), and added several of my own.
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    You need to make a table...
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Here's a table you can use.
    Fencer
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Canny Defense, Weapon Finesse, Called Blow

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Prime

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Insightful Strike

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Precise Strike +1d6

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Expertise, Seconde

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |

    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Tierce

    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |

    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Precise Strike +2d6

    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Masterful Parry, Quatre

    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |

    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Insightful Feint, Quinte

    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |

    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Precise Strike +3d6

    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Sixte

    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |

    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Septime

    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |

    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Precise Strike +4d6

    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Masterful Lunge, Octave[/table]

    Alright, first: How do called blows work? I don't recall any rules in the DMG, and you don't give any here.

    Second: What do "Prime", "Seconde", "Tierce" and so on indicate? There's no ability written out which corresponds with their progression.

    Third, what tier did you want this to end up in? It looks to me to be about a tier 4 or 5.

    Fourth, it currently lacks any sort of weapon or armor proficiencies.

    Fifth, a couple formatting tips: place the table after the fluff, with the Game Rule Information section either immediately above or below it. Also, bold the ability names; the standard for ease of reading would be like this:
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    Canny Defense: When not wearing armor or using a shield, a fencer adds 1 point of Intelligence bonus (if any) per fencer class level to his Dexterity bonus to modify Armor Class while wielding a melee weapon. If a fencer is caught flat-footed or otherwise denied his Dexterity bonus, he also loses this bonus.

    Keeping an empty line between abilities also makes them easier to read.
    Last edited by absolmorph; 2011-10-19 at 11:41 AM.
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by absolmorph View Post
    Second: What do "Prime", "Seconde", "Tierce" and so on indicate? There's no ability written out which corresponds with their progression.
    Those would be the lines of attack (actually, the common parries - I'm not sure you can actually attack in Prime/Seconde, since they're the same lines as Quatre/Sixte respectively), which is only obvious to people who actually know some of the terminology used in fencing, which is a subset of a subset of the population, and so should be made more clear.

    As for called blows...
    A fencer may chose any attack to be a called blow. If he does, he will deal damage normally but cannot reduce an opponents health to below 0.
    Not sure how helpful it is outside of a duel, because you can't actually defeat your opponent with it.

    The class really needs some abilities that let it actually do things. As it stands, all it gets is small number boosts, which makes it about as effective as an NPC warrior. Don't be afraid to take all of Duelist and all of Swashbuckler, mix them together, and then throw in some more useful things.
    Last edited by Siosilvar; 2011-10-19 at 02:20 PM.
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Alright, I've fixed the ability formatting and clarified a few of the abilities. I have two questions, though.

    Firstly, how do I copy the table from absolmorph's post? Sorry, I'm usually pretty good with computers, but I'm new to the forum.

    Secondly, I'd like the class to be Tier 3, and glancing over it I realize that it really isn't fitting that description too well. Unfortunately, I'm having a bit of a mind blank on ideas for new abilities that would be thematically appropriate. Any suggestions would be welcome.

    Oh, also, called blow is mostly intended for flavor. It's not intended to be the highlight of the class- it's simply meant to reflect that most fencers, NPCs and PCs alike, would spend a fair amount of time in duels or other non-lethal situations. They're still able to fight normally if the situation calls for it.
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205677


    is the tutorial on how to do tables.. It took me about 8 hours to do my first one so.. don't feel bad if it takes a bit to get the hang of it.

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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    bump precise strike to hlaf level like rogue? would make it really fill in a striker gap... give it a knights challenge like ability, that allows it to challenge a foe of equal or greater ECL to single combat? all other foes need to make a save if they want to assist the foe, the same goes for allies helping you? something like 10+fencer level+charisma mod(go three muskitieres on a hundred orcs)... allow the fencer to take a minus to ac to increase reach for one attack? like a real lunge, let him stab a foe ten feat away... let him add his inteligenc mod to ac? another five foot step? many more five foot steps? evasion? mettle?

    thats just a few ideas
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    bump precise strike to hlaf level like rogue? would make it really fill in a striker gap... give it a knights challenge like ability, that allows it to challenge a foe of equal or greater ECL to single combat? all other foes need to make a save if they want to assist the foe, the same goes for allies helping you? something like 10+fencer level+charisma mod(go three muskitieres on a hundred orcs)... allow the fencer to take a minus to ac to increase reach for one attack? like a real lunge, let him stab a foe ten feat away... let him add his inteligenc mod to ac? another five foot step? many more five foot steps? evasion? mettle?

    thats just a few ideas
    I'd prefer to not increase precise strike over much, since it, unlike SA, doesn't require specific circumstances to activate (beyond using a weapon). Still, I think that you're right about it needing an increase in gain rate.

    The knight's challenge idea isn't bad either. Some sort of challenge, at least. I'll see what I can come up with.

    The - to AC and gain in reach is already covered in the Lunge feat (-2 AC, +5 ft. Reach for 1 round), which I might add as a bonus feat (probably not, though).

    The Fencer already gets int to AC.

    Here's an idea- once per round, the fencer may, as an immediate action take a five foot step. However, if he does so, he is counted as having already used his move action for the next round. Thoughts?

    And, as always, suggestions are appreciated. I'll start working on the table now.
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    actually it does... it stops him from using a big honking great sword or a spiked chain. also it trades the ability to add a shield/buckler, which weakens it a little. also, a lot of stuff is immune to sneak attacks/criticals so it has a minus there. so at level 20 dealing +4d6 is not that good... perhaps one every three levels? would make it 6d6 at 18th, which would add a ice kick to the rapier. also letting it multiply on a crit would make it work with this class. most weapons it's using have a high crit rate but a low crit multiplier. doubling 6d6 is just 12d6, nice but not that impressive.
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    actually it does... it stops him from using a big honking great sword or a spiked chain. also it trades the ability to add a shield/buckler, which weakens it a little. also, a lot of stuff is immune to sneak attacks/criticals so it has a minus there. so at level 20 dealing +4d6 is not that good... perhaps one every three levels? would make it 6d6 at 18th, which would add a ice kick to the rapier. also letting it multiply on a crit would make it work with this class. most weapons it's using have a high crit rate but a low crit multiplier. doubling 6d6 is just 12d6, nice but not that impressive.
    Fair enough. I think that I'll go with 1 every three levels, and can be used on a crit. Also, I've added the table now. I'm fairly certain that I got everything right...
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    still some empty levels... perhaps some fluff abilities? like acrobatic charge, quick draw, a bonus in a combat over a damsel in distress...
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Alright, I have a few ideas. Critiques welcome, as always.

    Evasive Reflexes: The fencer may, once per round, take a five foot as an immediate action. However, the next round he's counted as having taken a move action.

    Combat Study- Starting at 6th level, the Fencer may, as a full-round action, study a single opponent. The fencer gains an insight bonus to attack and damage against that opponent equal to half his fencer level, rounded down. He gains a similar bonus to all saves to resist the spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities of the target. This benefit lasts for a number of rounds equal to the fencer's level/3, rounded down.

    At 11th level, this ability takes a standard action to use.

    At 16th level, this ability becomes a move action to use.

    Duel- If, in a given round, the fencer attacks only one target and is attacked by only that target, he has entered a duel with that target. While in a duel, the fencer gains a +4 dodge bonus to AC against his target, but a -2 penalty to AC against all other combatants. In addition, he gains an +4 insight bonus to bluff and intimidate checks used to feint and demoralize that target, as well as a +2 Insight bonus to attack. Should his target flee (in game terms, take an entire round without taking any offensive or defensive action against the fencer), the duel is ended and the fencer gains a +2 Morale Bonus to attack, damage, saves, skills and initiative for a number of rounds equal to his fencer class level.

    If another combatant succeeds in attacking the fencer, the fencer must make a DC 25 Concentration check or the duel ends. Should the duel end in this fashion, the fencer gains no morale bonuses.

    The duel can be ended as a free action, should the fencer will it.

    Thoughts?
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    smile Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    I would say that to really make it feel monk-ey (no pun intended) you should include some sort of flurry of blows, though with a light weapon. Just a thought. Pretty interesting otherwise though.
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by lothofkalroth View Post
    I would say that to really make it feel monk-ey (no pun intended) you should include some sort of flurry of blows, though with a light weapon. Just a thought. Pretty interesting otherwise though.
    Although I originally thought that that didn't fit with the theme very well, I'm beginning to reconsider. I'm watching videos of Olympic fencing, and I'm noticing that, after a long period of study and testing, the fencers seem to simply explode into action. In D&D terms, I'm counting what looks like about twenty attacks each round. However, these seem to be one-time spurts, and fencers don't use them back-to-back. Here, what does this look like?

    Explosion of Blows- As a full-round action, a fencer of 11th level or higher may make an explosion of blows. When using the ability, the fencer takes a number of attacks against a target equal to his fencer class level. These attacks are at his full BAB, -1 per each previous attack.

    The target has two options. He may accept the blow, in which case it automatically hits, dealing damage as normal (rolls should still be made for miss chance, and critical threats). Alternatively, the target may chose to attempt to block, dodge, or otherwise evade a given attack. Should he chose to do this, he may add a +4 dodge bonus to his AC against that specific attack. This bonus stacks with other dodge bonuses to AC that the target might have.

    For each attack he attempts to block, the target gets a -1 penalty to attack, AC, saves and skills for the following round, to a maximum of -10, as well as a cumulative -5 ft. penalty to all movement speeds. A successful Fortitude Save (DC Fencer's Level+Fencer's Dex Mod+5) halves this penalty. Note that a creature's speed cannot be reduced to below 5 ft. per round.

    A fencer has no limit on the number of times per day that he may use this ability. However, upon using this ability, he is afterwards fatigued for 1d4 Minutes. Should he use this ability while fatigued, he is instead exhausted for the same amount of time. While exhausted, he may not use this ability.

    What do you think?
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Would allow for some brokeness when combind with soul eater (you now have 20 negitive levels)... also true strike totaly breakes this... and a cleric with a fatigue retorer breaks this...
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    Would allow for some brokeness when combind with soul eater (you now have 20 negitive levels)... also true strike totaly breakes this... and a cleric with a fatigue retorer breaks this...
    True strike applies only to your next attack role, not to all attack rolls in a given round. It would break this no more than it can 'break' any melee attack.

    I don't know the soul eater class. What book is it from?

    I'm not entirely sure what you mean by fatigue retorer. I assume that its some means of negating the fatigued condition? Anyways, I suppose that that is a problem. Perhaps a cooldown period in which it cannot be used?
    Last edited by Othesemo; 2011-10-20 at 05:24 PM.
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    BoVD, it adds a negitive level to each strike... perhaps a round of study?
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    BoVD, it adds a negitive level to each strike... perhaps a round of study?
    Hmm... that could work. It does seem like the sort of thing that one would NOT open an encounter with.

    Yeah, I think I'll go with that. Any other suggestions, or should I just pop it into the class?
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    to go with the study theme, perhaps you could add something to the effect of:

    Study:
    a fencer may, as a move action, study an opponent, if he does he gets a +1 to attack and +1 to AC against said opponent, this bonus lasts until the fencer studies another opponent.

    since they are untyped the fencer could continue to study his opponent and gain further advantage over him, thoughts?
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbdy View Post
    to go with the study theme, perhaps you could add something to the effect of:

    Study:
    a fencer may, as a move action, study an opponent, if he does he gets a +1 to attack and +1 to AC against said opponent, this bonus lasts until the fencer studies another opponent.

    since they are untyped the fencer could continue to study his opponent and gain further advantage over him, thoughts?
    I like it. Of course, there'd need to be a cap (I study the sleeping target for 1,200 rounds, then attack). Still, it has nice flavor and is well balanced (for a low level ability).

    Incidentally, are you suggesting that that replace Combat Study, or is it meant to be a different ability?
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Ok, I probably should be doing chem, but I like fencing, so...

    Canny Defense- When not wearing armor or using a shield, a fencer adds 1 point of Intelligence bonus (if any) per fencer class level to his Dexterity bonus to modify Armor Class while wielding a melee weapon. If a fencer is caught flat-footed or otherwise denied his Dexterity bonus, he also loses this bonus.
    Why not just give him Int. to AC? Much simpler.

    Line of attack- Starting at second level, the fencer starts gaining lines of attack, referred to as Prime, Seconde, Tierce, Etcetera. At maximum, there are eight lines. For each line that the fencer has access to, he gain a +1 bonus to AC when fighting defensively or using combat expertise and a +1 bonus to attack while fighting defensively or using combat expertise.
    Put in the table "Prime (+1)", "Seconde(+2)", etc. Also, you realize that this makes (at 20th level) the penalties for fighting defensively for -8 vanish?
    I approve! I always thought that combat expertise needed more use.

    Insightful Strike- Starting at third level, the fencer adds his intelligence bonus (if any) to attack and damage.
    Simple. It works.

    Precise Strike- At 1st level, and every three levels after, a fencer gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing weapon, dealing an extra 1d6 damage + 1d6 per three levels after first. Note that this is not extra damage- it is an increase to the base damage dealt, and thus is multiplied on critical hits.

    When making a precise strike, a fencer cannot attack with a weapon in his other hand or use a shield. A fencerís precise strike only works against living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to a precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise strike.
    Ok, firstly- up this to 1/2 level. Really, this guy can't use power attack, added damage is one of the few other ways to make melee work. Also, you can argue that the fencer should have better added damage- in epee, at least, the target you almost always want to hit is the back of the opponent's hand, behind the bell guard (for non-fencers, that means you want to hit the other guy's hand that's holding the sword, around the guard. Not easy.).
    Secondly, this is a small rambling by Jiriku about the problem with precision damage, and why making it be blocked by imunity to critical hits, etc, is a bad idea.
    Sneak attack. It defines the 3.5 rogue, but is also his Achilles heel: half of the monsters he'll face are immune to it, and all sorts of precision damage, sidelining the rogue far too often for the class to be playable. the daring oultaw assumes a major change in the operating rules of the game: only oozes and swarms are immune to critical hits and precision damage; all other creature types have weaknesses to exploit, even if they're different than the weaknesses of most living, flesh-and-blood creatures. Embrace this change, and precision-based strikers will prosper. Cling to the old way, and precision damage is subpar.
    But make your own decision.
    Also, this should be with the rest of the level 1 abilities in the text, instead of after a level 2 and 3 ability.
    Expertise- as per the feat. If the fencer already has expertise, he may select any feat which has it as a prerequisite, provided that he meets the prerequisites.
    There is no feat called expertise. Combat expertise, perhaps?
    Masterful Parry- Starting at tenth level, when the fencer fights defensively he may add 1 point to his AC per two fencer levels.
    Ok, now, if I was a fencer at level 20 and I fought defensively for 8 points of AC... he gets +18 to AC plus his Int and Dex?
    Although he has no armor. So I could see why all this is necessarily. As long as you realize how big of a bonus that is...
    Insightful Feint- the fencer may use a feint as a swift action. If he already possesses this ability, he instead gains the ability to feint as a free action.
    Good idea, but I'm not sure what having people grant combat advantage gives to the fencer...
    Also, you may wish to let any Fencer with the feat Improved Feint lose it in exchange for any other feat they meet the prerequisites for, since Improved Feint would then be useless.
    Masterful Lunge- Starting at 20th level, the fencer may once per day make an attack at his highest base attack bonus. This attack ignores armor, shield and dexterity bonuses to AC. This may only be used in instances when the fencer can use precise strike.
    Just axe this. Give them something like
    Once every five rounds, you may gain the effects of the spell True Strike as a swift action. This is a extraordinary ability.
    and maybe
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    When attacking a single target, as a standard action, the fencer gains the ability to ignore armor, shield, deflection, and natural armor bonuses to AC, as well as ignoring any miss chance.



    Now then, what else to add to the class...
    One of the big things that make a class fun is having options. This class has few. You want to have one or two options available to the fencer at all times. Hopefully that made sense, if not I'll keep trying to explain.

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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Othesemo View Post
    I like it. Of course, there'd need to be a cap (I study the sleeping target for 1,200 rounds, then attack). Still, it has nice flavor and is well balanced (for a low level ability).

    Incidentally, are you suggesting that that replace Combat Study, or is it meant to be a different ability?
    suggested as a stand alone ability that seemed to mesh with what you were making, oh and a sleeping target would be trivial to kill with just a coup-de-grace anyway, but a cap based on the opponent's level might be interesting, as you can't study what skill they don't have ;)
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbdy View Post
    suggested as a stand alone ability that seemed to mesh with what you were making, oh and a sleeping target would be trivial to kill with just a coup-de-grace anyway, but a cap based on the opponent's level might be interesting, as you can't study what skill they don't have ;)
    I think that I'll set the cap at the Fencer's level, but other than that I like it. I'll add it at second level.
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    hmm... the class does still feel limited, perhaps adding in more options and stuff for the player to do would be appropriate? Alternate fighting styles (some folks at my fencing club dual wield rapier and dagger, or will fight with weapons of opposing styles, such as sabre vs small sword)

    EDIT: it's also very tanky, and the goal of a fencer (as I was taught it) is to end the fight as quickly as you can while making sure you don't die, the class is extremely defensive, and you can feel free to ignore any of my advice you want, but comparing it to a rogue (the posterboy for t3), we see the rogue is versatile, able to be sneaky, a diplomat, do sneak attack damage, fake being a spell caster. In all the class can vary quite a bit between class members, you get dumb thugs that do lots of sneak attack damage but not much else, you get agile thieves, you get sneaky one-shotters, you get con artists, and so much more, the fencer on the other hand appears to be a replacement tank and only that as far as I can see, is this the intended role you had in mind?
    Last edited by nhbdy; 2011-10-20 at 08:23 PM.
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldest View Post
    -snip-
    I appreciate the suggestions, and I've made most of the changes you offered, although I've refrained form making one. Specifically,

    I'm keeping precise strike where it is. This is for two reasons- the first is that it, unlike sneak attack, is not quite so limited in application. It can be used in a one-on-one duel, when surrounded by monsters, or after being caught in the surprise round. The second is that it, unlike sneak attack, can be multiplied on criticals. With a keen rapier (15-20 x2) and possibly power critical, that increases the amount of damage which it can deal.
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Ok, fair enough with the extra damage. This is different than the situations where I could imagine it being messed up, too, so that works.
    Did the mini-rant about options make sense?

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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    @nhbdy The class is definitely intended to fill the tank role. However, I do agree that it's a bit too limited outside of smacking things (however gracefully) with a rapier. I'd appreciate suggestions for changing this, preferably fitting in line with the fencer archetype.

    @Eldest Yes, although going about implementing it is proving to be slightly more difficult than I at first anticipated.
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    Default Re: The Fencer (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Ideas, then:
    A parry mechanic, and possibly at higher levels a riposte/counter-riposte (riposte for attacks and counter-riposte for attacks of opportunity).
    Some sort of color ability for allowing them to show off their swordsmanship, possibly distracting opponents (now that I think about that it's basically feigning).
    Lunges: the ability to extend your reach by five feet (or more at higher levels), but only by attacking as a standard action (so not in a full attack).
    Need more?

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