League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta

[toasty]

I do agree about the farming bit. Was getting good on Ezrael at farming and then they took my champ away. I've seen talk of 100CS by 10 minutes, or 20 minutes can't remember, and i've hit that once or twice on ashe and once on Ezrael. But I agree there is work to be done there.

Perfect CS is 100 by ten minutes. Most of the time, most pros don't hit that. A good marker is 100 CS before fifteen minutes.

Honestly though, if you have the highest farm on your team, even if its under that mark, that means you are farming well. Also realize that having 60 CS but 3 kills by the 15 minute mark is probably acceptable. Kills are worth about 30 CS, assists half that (assuming you get the full 175 assist gold). Balance your CS/harass/attempts to kill accordingly.

I've never got gunblade on Annie, I upgrade it to Will of the Ancients rather than Gunblade. Cheaper, identical Spell Vamp and slightly more AP in addition to giving other champs AP and spell vamp is better in my opinion. Mainly because i'm terrible at 'on-use' items such as gunblade.

I meant Hextech Relover/WotA. Sorry. I do that. I also call Wits End Last Whisper and the attack speed boots "assault treads"

I'll give the rushing IE/Brutalizer a go on Ashe. I've always found a lack of damage on Ashe to be a problem, even had a go with a manamune build for a while. I actually preferred it over everything i've run before but given the attitude of some of my team mates towards me building the item, despite feeling i've contributed much more throughout the game, i've dropped the idea.

Do you have mana/level yellows? If you don't, I would suggest rushing a Philo stone on Ashe. Ignore your teamates, its a cost effective item. Manamune is probably a bad idea.

Ashe has the "worst" damage of all the Carries. She has the most utility. I realize that she's expensive, but I say you should try Miss Fortune, she has a much easier time laning because of her higher burst/damage early game, she farms very easily with her ult, and if you never use her E and don't spam her Q in lane you don't need any mana items. Your build is the same as Ashe: IE/Bloothirster+Phantom Dancer then either GA, Bveil or QQS.

He's always been good, everyone's known that, he just fell off with the Lee Sin FotM. That said, Saint is also the guy who touts Master Yi as the Best Jungler Ever and started the GP Jungle FotM before the rework, so take everything he says with a grain of salt. My personal opinion tho, Jarvan is fine.

A) MTG_Player_Zach refuses to sumbit that Yi is not a good jungler as well. I don't really know how to convince Yi players that Yi is bad.

B) I think the best thing about Saint is that he's the guy that will try to make everything jungle. That's good because, as we've seen, stuff like GP (pre-rework) Jungle and Taric Jungle can actually work with the right setup. Saint's argument for Jarvan was that he has a lot of CC, and I have to say, Jarvan early ganks are really, really scary.

C) Yeah, Jarvan is probably fine. My only fear is that I feel like he might be the most blue dependent jungler in the game currently, how true is that?

In other news: What about an AD Alistair in the jungle? How would that work? The build would basically be Wriggles+HoG+Triforce.

[ArcanistSupreme]

*shrug* Depends on what floats your boat. Some of them are fun. Some of them are interesting. Some of them are a waste of space (Amumu's, for instance). So...yeah.

Which ones would you say are fun? I'd like to check a couple out to see if Riot can change my mind about its writing staff.

[Dogmantra]

Also, I tend to not like champs who dip off, although I do like winning the lane. Actually, I feel like I always do better in the laning phase, and dip off myself. So, having a champ who does that... Not sure that is a good idea.

He only dips off if you build solely for the early game. Traditional AD carry build of IE/PD works just dandy. He's a tad unsafe because of his Sivir-range, BUT he still has wonderful poke, and his armour reduction is actually a rather nice AD booster.

[Silverraptor]

I think everyone forgets corki exists.

Wait, who is this? Lego, stop making up champions.

[Daverin]

So, found out Graves' bases. He actually has one of the best base ADs for AD carries, although it is not at the level of the usual tanky dps. His armor, though, is fantastic. It is 15 base, equal to Urgot, and comparable to bruisers, not carries like Caitlyn. He also has a fair health pool. In general, he may have slight power creep for his bases. So yeah, that is promising for his laning.

I definitely think I found a champ I want to get better with. And maybe Urgot, now, thanks to Dog.

And wow, Jailbreak Graves DOES look somewhat like Cable from X-men (thanks LoLWiki.)

[balistafreak]

Sup.

I can go 6 ArPen Reds and rest AD, combined with armor yellows, AS blues, and 21/0/9 masteries to do a 4-small camps jungle with Graves. (The 4-small camps jungle is where you run in and do their entire wraiths camp, then do a normal wolves route, smiting at your own wraiths again.) True Grit doesn't really enable his jungle, though (it's relatively insignificant), it's Buckshot's absolulely awesome burst AND AoE damage to small camps.

This. Is. Hilarious.

I do have to wait between my wolves and wraiths for smite to come off CD, but I can start with cloth a

As for his little finicky pieces...

Buckshot goes through enemies. It is NOT like Ashe volley, which is blocked by creeps, but goes THROUGH them. This means good times, and also faster jungles.

His Smokescreen is... weird. I still don't know exactly what it does beyond a tiny bit of damage and a slow. My enemies QQ'd about it killing them, though, and seemed to act pretty dumb when they walked into it though...

Quick Draw is a dash a little shorter than Shen's taunt (probably a bit shorter, actually). I haven't yet tried dashing over walls with it, but something tells me that like Riven, Riot said "no". The attack speed boost is a eyebrow raising 40% at the first rank, but after that it's just another 10% and a second off the cooldown. Eh.

Collateral Damage is nothing but that - damage. But DAMN if it isn't an AoE melter. Yeah, the single target nuke damage is nothing to sneeze at. Catching the entire team in it is a huge tide-turner.

[TechnOkami]

Which ones would you say are fun? I'd like to check a couple out to see if Riot can change my mind about its writing staff.

Malzahar + Kassadin +Kog Maw + Cho'Gath have that whole Eldritch Horror Void plot going on.

Swain + Jarvan have an eternal hatred towards each other.

There's currently a power struggle in Noxus since their King's death. Swain is assumed to more or less be running the show now. LeBlanc and Swain have a subplot going on about the secretive Black Rose organization.

I'll be frank, the character bios alone aren't too interesting. However, if you do read them all (and come to an understanding of what exactly everything means with all the side plots going on) and keep up w/ the Journal of Justice, it paints an interesting picture imo.

[Dogmantra]

His Smokescreen is... weird. I still don't know exactly what it does beyond a tiny bit of damage and a slow. My enemies QQ'd about it killing them, though, and seemed to act pretty dumb when they walked into it though...

It's an inverse bush. You can only see things that are attacking you or are inside the smokescreen with you.

[Daverin]

Quick Draw is a dash a little shorter than Shen's taunt (probably a bit shorter, actually). I haven't yet tried dashing over walls with it, but something tells me that like Riven, Riot said "no". The attack speed boost is a eyebrow raising 40% at the first rank, but after that it's just another 10% and a second off the cooldown. Eh.

Actually, I believe I've heard it does make it through walls. Surprise.

As for the scaling: Not that it is huge, but the "effect" it has on its use is. Like I said, that combined 40% more aspd and 4 seconds off? It makes it pretty much stay up if you keep firing. So, yeah it isn't bad at all. And still, 80% aspd is pretty large. Is there even a comparable buff to aspd?

Also, someone apparently has "successfully" jungled with Graves, and he took W at 2 and E at 3 instead of the likely more intelligent QEQW. Of course, there are many reasons I'd object to a ranged carry jungling even if he can live through it, but... yeah. He did wolves start, btw.

[Darth Mario]

It's an inverse bush. You can only see things that are attacking you or are inside the smokescreen with you.

I walked straight out of one into a Caitlyn trap that had been removed from my vision after finishing off Graves today.

I was on 100 health. I died.

I feel stupid.

[Daverin]

I walked straight out of one into a Caitlyn trap that had been removed from my vision after finishing off Graves today.

I was on 100 health. I died.

I feel stupid.

I think Phreak did a good job in his spotlight revealing this trump of the W, which is that you can potentially force stupid decisions on the enemy, as they cannot tell if they are, quite literally in your case, walking into a trap. It would be a great setup for a jungle gank. I will be eager to see how far I can take this aspect as I learn Graves.

[shadowwalker64]

I think Phreak did a good job in his spotlight revealing this trump of the W, which is that you can potentially force stupid decisions on the enemy, as they cannot tell if they are, quite literally in your case, walking into a trap. It would be a great setup for a jungle gank. I will be eager to see how far I can take this aspect as I learn Graves.

Jungle Graves gogo

[Daverin]

Jungle Graves gogo

Well, I meant more setting it up for your jungler while laning as Graves. Obviously, if you are jungle Graves and throw the smoke, they KNOW you are ganking.

[tyckspoon]

Actually, I believe I've heard it does make it through walls. Surprise.

As for the scaling: Not that it is huge, but the "effect" it has on its use is. Like I said, that combined 40% more aspd and 4 seconds off? It makes it pretty much stay up if you keep firing. So, yeah it isn't bad at all. And still, 80% aspd is pretty large. Is there even a comparable buff to aspd?

Tristana's Q. Starts at 30% and scales at 15% per point to 90.

Edit: Warwick's Aspd buff is 80% on self, Udyr gets 85% from switching into Tiger's active. Nunu gets 65% + move speed on two champs with no lapse in uptime, assuming you remember to recast Blood Boil every 15 seconds. There's a few more 70-90% hanging around on various longer-CD ults. It's not really an uncommonly powerful buff, although tying it to a dash is very nice and potential for 100% uptime during a fight is good.

[balistafreak]

I think Phreak did a good job in his spotlight revealing this trump of the W, which is that you can potentially force stupid decisions on the enemy, as they cannot tell if they are, quite literally in your case, walking into a trap. It would be a great setup for a jungle gank. I will be eager to see how far I can take this aspect as I learn Graves.

Jungle Graves gogo

I play Graves on Summoner's Rift as a jungler.

Me: I play Graves on Summoner's Rift as a jungler.

[Eldariel]

Which ones would you say are fun? I'd like to check a couple out to see if Riot can change my mind about its writing staff.

Eeh, I don't remember all that much of them; I just remember I had a good time reading some. That is to say, I remember the information but not the guise.

[Daverin]

I feel like my comment is going to be misconstrued as for jungle graves, which I am not...

[potatocubed]

Playing Gangplank. Got a ping of 400, which reconnects don't fix. Got fewest deaths and most assists on my team. (5/9/25 or something)

We lost, but I think I can look on my contribution and be proud. Even if I do have to look on it in stop-motion.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Also, someone apparently has "successfully" jungled with Graves, and he took W at 2 and E at 3 instead of the likely more intelligent QEQW. Of course, there are many reasons I'd object to a ranged carry jungling even if he can live through it, but... yeah. He did wolves start, btw.

Now my all-smite jungle comp is even more viable! Graves/Ezrael/Urgot, Udyr/Warwick/GP/Generic Tanky AD jungler (pick two), Alistar/Taric, and Karthus/Sion. Sadly, Amumu and Fiddle probably shouldn't join in because their laning is terribad.

I kind of sort of really want to try this. Anyone interested?

EDIT: Also, does anyone know when the harrowing runes will be available? I need me some regen quints.

[Eldariel]

EDIT: Also, does anyone know when the harrowing runes will be available? I need me some regen quints.

Are they gimped or the real thing this year?

[Darth Mario]

Amumu and Fiddle probably shouldn't join in because their laning is terribad.

Amumu, for one, can certainly operate as a duo lane "support" once he has a few ranks in tantrum and bandage toss, as well as a little gp/5. Just make sure he gets jungle first, and he'll fit onto your comp.

[Spartacus]

Oh look, tier 2.5 runes again. Looks like I'll be skipping these.

[Eldariel]

You know how Olaf's W scales with HP? Well, this Olaf most certainly did:

Spoiler

Show

Amusingly, this actually made me consider the merits of stacking Warmog's on him; he does superb base damage with no items especially with the E, scales his Q with his W, has inherent ArPen and is a tanky DPS. So, why not get as tanky as you can go? Of course, Trist was still chewing him up and god forbid they have someone with a percentile attack or Bloodrazor/DFG...

Also, I just found out that trying to Petrify a Kat in her ult is about the hardest thing in the League. It CAN be done apparently; I accidentally landed one. But she needs to be facing you. During that whirlwind. Yeah, I usually whiffed.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Amumu, for one, can certainly operate as a duo lane "support" once he has a few ranks in tantrum and bandage toss, as well as a little gp/5. Just make sure he gets jungle first, and he'll fit onto your comp.

See, I thought about that, but then they'll expect it. I want anyone and everyone on the team to be able to start in lane or in the jungle So that the opponents never know who to expect. That's half of the novelty of the team comp. There need to be more viable AP junglers...

EDIT:

Are they gimped or the real thing this year?

Oh look, tier 2.5 runes again. Looks like I'll be skipping these.

I dunno. I've only been playing since Christmas, so I always thought that they were just the same thing with goofy pictures. That's way lame if they aren't.

[Eldariel]

See, I thought about that, but then they'll expect it. I want anyone and everyone on the team to be able to start in lane or in the jungle So that the opponents never know who to expect. That's half of the novelty of the team comp. There need to be more viable AP junglers...

Karthus and Fiddle are both viable in the lane and the jungle. I'd pick Ez or Vayne for ranged AD and then like Lee Sin and Alistar for AD and a support tank initiator for good measure.

EDIT: Lee Sin can carry CV and Ezreal can have an Exhaust. Alistar & Fiddle need their Flash, Karthus can carry Revive or TP or Ignite or something. Or Flash.

[Spartacus]

Actually, it seems that dodge and move speed, at least, once you include the soft cap/multiplicitive stacking of them end up very very close to the tier 3 ones.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Karthus and Fiddle are both viable in the lane and the jungle. I'd pick Ez or Vayne for ranged AD and then like Lee Sin and Alistar for AD and a support tank initiator for good measure.

Sure Fiddle can lane, but his jungling is just so much better. He's also not super great against people that can push the lane really hard (as in any other AP caster beside Kassadin). There's a reason that you don't see much Fiddle in the middle. But I guess that since this comp will only work in normal games/low ELO anyway, there's no real reason not to lane Fiddlesticks.

[Eldariel]

Sure Fiddle can lane, but his jungling is just so much better. He's also not super great against people that can push the lane really hard (as in any other AP caster beside Kassadin). There's a reason that you don't see much Fiddle in the middle. But I guess that since this comp will only work in normal games/low ELO anyway, there's no real reason not to lane Fiddlesticks.

Fiddles isn't really that bad in lane, he just has some bad MUs. Ideally, you place him against someone without a stun and watch him walk all over them. He's probably better on top than in mid, actually. Yeah, his pushing isn't the best but Dark Wind does alright. I mean, yeah, I wouldn't want to be Fiddle against Anivia, but I wouldn't want to be a lot of things against Anivia.

[Raistlin1040]

Harrowing Runes are up, it appears. Dodge, Flat Health, and Movespeed ones are very close to their Tier 3 counterparts for half the cost. MPen one is .14 less penetration, ArPen one is .25 less Penetration, AP one is .39 less AP. All are basically the prices of tier 2 runes for close to tier 3 benefit.

[Daverin]

Last I recall, hallowing runes were about being far cheaper than the t3, with stats that or generally only slightly below the t3 stats. That said, I have none to get, because I have all of the relevant t3. O.O

Also, Graves. I was able to play him. I was not disappointed. At. All. Already my favorite ranged carry so far. Oh, and, with just a BT (and an impressive Taric, good job Arcanist!)... I don't think I died once. I was able to tank damage, and both W and E are, in fact, great escape. It was incredible. And dat burst.

The only thing is he feels mana hungry. I probably could just go mana regen runes, but... meh. It was also an interesting game in that most of the enemies are good at getting away or catching you (Irelia, Kass, Nid.) Also, Ashe and Skarner, so good at pinning someone down. I loved when Skarner ulted me. Next to their turret, with all 5 there. I lived.