The Index of the Giant's Comments

[137beth]

There was also one where he said that no one should "bump" this thread. Someone responded by linking to it...in this thread

[Blas_de_Lezo]

There was also one where he said that no one should "bump" this thread. Someone responded by linking to it...in this thread

Here it is:

We don't need to keep the Index bumped constantly

Sorry, but somebody had to do it.

[genderlich]

It should be noted that this quote contains some heavy spoilers for that story. Read on your own risk.

While I'm posting in this thread, I would like state something: Please don't joke around or discuss things in this thread. Every time I see a new post in this thread, I open it, expecting a new quote by the Giant. Often, I'm disappointed. Knowing the fan-base, I doubt I'm the only one.

Normally, I don't mind off-topic chatter or discussion too much, but for this thread, I really think it would be good if we tried to keep the off-topic discussion to a minimum. Now, granted, I suppose I now have "bumped" the thread without adding a quote, which I apologize for, but I figured that I could combine this suggestion with a warning about spoilers.

Now, I'd prefer it if people didn't respond to this message with things like "Okay, will do", or "Sorry, my bad" or something like that, since that would bump the thread and possibly mislead other forum-goers. I want you to know that I don't blame any of you for writing in this thread, but I do think it would be better if people did it elsewhere, unless it's related to the thread. Thanks in advance.

Before I finish, I would like to note that I'm not moderating this thread: This is simply my suggestion. I do believe that my argument for keeping posting to a minimum is reasonable, though. So yeah, have a good day, everyone, or night, depending on what time of the day it is when you're reading this.

Reiterating this a bit.

[Silver Swift]

Reiterating this a bit.

I actually don't think this is in line with what this thread is for, we're supposed to be cataloguing the giants posts so they are easier to find in the future, not function as a warning system for new posts. Debating the merits of a quote and making the ocasional humorous sidetrack is more important than that.

Keeping the discussion to a minimum because it makes ThePhantoms job easier is reasonable and I have no problem with that (I'm unsure whether that request is still active though), but stifling discussion so some people don't get disappointed when they open this thread and finding no new giant-posts is not something I think we should do.

[Sylian]

I think that discussing the merit of a quote is fine, as long as it's relevant. Perhaps the goal of this thread is not to act as a "warning system" for new posts by the Giant, but I do believe that many people use the thread for that. So, discussing on-topic things? Sure. Discussing the comic in general, off-topic things or just joking around? Please take that somewhere else.

Oh, and I apologise to the people that checked out this thread expecting a new Giant post, but I felt that this needed to be said. I also kind of feel that by clarifying my intentions with my post I might prevent other posts regarding the subject in the future.

If someone feels like making an actual tracker of the Giant's post, that'd be great! Unfortunately, this forum lacks a search function, otherwise I'd use that-

[ti'esar]

I actually don't think this is in line with what this thread is for, we're supposed to be cataloguing the giants posts so they are easier to find in the future, not function as a warning system for new posts. Debating the merits of a quote and making the ocasional humorous sidetrack is more important than that.

Keeping the discussion to a minimum because it makes ThePhantoms job easier is reasonable and I have no problem with that (I'm unsure whether that request is still active though), but stifling discussion so some people don't get disappointed when they open this thread and finding no new giant-posts is not something I think we should do.

This.

Really nothing else needs saying here.

[ThePhantasm]

Those who want an updating list of the Giant's recent comments can just use this Google query, which seems to work just fine. I'll make note of this query in the actual index itself in the next update.

This thread is a compilation thread, not a feed of the Giant's comments. If you don't want to use the Google search function above, but only want to see the latest comments that have been included in the Index, look in the "updates" section at the bottom of the first post in this thread. It shows which quotes were added to the index in any given update. Its designed to be a quick way to see what was added without combing through the whole index or through pages of discussion.

[NerdyKris]

I think the only thing that should be avoided is completely bringing the actual discussion from a thread over into this thread. Or getting too far off topic. For one thing, it splits the discussion anyways, and for those who aren't really reading that thread, we're not going to know wall the arguments people are referring to. Pretty much the epitome of the one topic/one thread rule.

Other than that, I agree, it shouldn't be treated like an update feed. We should still be able to discuss the quotes and banter just like any other thread.

[ThePhantasm]

The thread was not intended for discussions agreeing with or disagreeing with the quotes.

We only discuss the quotes here in terms of whether or not they should be included in the index.

I'm not the moderator of this thread, just the curator. This thread is under the same forum rules as any other thread, i.e. stay on topic, etc.

[theangelJean]

From comic 917:

Tarquin does not intend for members of his own party to join Elan's.

Sure, I didn't need the clarification either (I particularly liked "Rob Redblade and Murkon Lightninghammer") but at least two posters did get confused (that I've read so far), and it requires a slightly closer reading/interpretation than the last one I posted. Not an especially strong argument, though, and as always this is up to ThePhantasm's discretion :)

[Gray Mage]

From comic 917:

Tarquin does not intend for members of his own party to join Elan's.

Sure, I didn't need the clarification either (I particularly liked "Rob Redblade and Murkon Lightninghammer") but at least two posters did get confused (that I've read so far), and it requires a slightly closer reading/interpretation than the last one I posted. Not an especially strong argument, though, and as always this is up to ThePhantasm's discretion :)

Eh, IMO I don't think this one should be included. Maybe if more people begin to be confused, but as it stands, I believe it was very clear in the comic.

[ThePhantasm]

If it comes up in a discussion, one can always point out the simple fact that Tarquin doesn't have teammates named Rob and Murkon. You don't need a quote from the Giant to shoot down this misconception.

[137beth]

The person who got confused later responded to the Giant:

Ah, misunderstood then.

I'd gone under the assumption that Tarquin had already prestaged new companions for Elan.

The confusion was not that Rob and Murkon were members of Tarquin's party, the confusion was that they were people Tarquin hired himself.
Which I think is a clarification worth adding to the index.

[LadyEowyn]

I don't think that clarification needs to be included in the index. It's pretty obvious once you think about it for a couple seconds.

[Ron Miel]

Not everything The Giant says needs to be indexed.

No future readers are likely to be confused by the matter. I think that after a couple more pages, it will be apparent to everyone that Tarquin hasn't hired any adventurers for Elan.

[Flame of Anor]

I don't think that clarification needs to be included in the index. It's pretty obvious once you think about it for a couple seconds.

This argument, while it seems sensible, just doesn't fly around here. You can get people around here who will believe the weirdest theories until the Giant personally shoots them down (and sometimes even after).

[pendell]

I don't think that clarification needs to be included in the index. It's pretty obvious once you think about it for a couple seconds.

No, no it isn't.

As far as I'm concerned, anything the Giant says that is in any way relevant to the plot or construction of the comic should be indexed. What doesn't need to be indexed is stuff like status updates, kickstarter "my stuff is here", anything related to Rich's personal life. But anything directly impacting the comic or Rich's beliefs about storytelling should be.

His threat to ban anyone who diverts this thread should definitely be indexed and given pride of place on the first post.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Jasdoif]

As far as I'm concerned, anything the Giant says that is in any way relevant to the plot or construction of the comic should be indexed. What doesn't need to be indexed is stuff like status updates, kickstarter "my stuff is here", anything related to Rich's personal life. But anything directly impacting the comic or Rich's beliefs about storytelling should be.

His threat to ban anyone who diverts this thread should definitely be indexed and given pride of place on the first post.

Since this thread doesn't directly impact the comic or relate to Rich's beliefs on storytelling, his post about this thread falls short of the criteria you've just proposed. It also falls short of this thread's established guidelines for post inclusion, for the same reason.

[littlebum2002]

No, no it isn't.

As far as I'm concerned, anything the Giant says that is in any way relevant to the plot or construction of the comic should be indexed. What doesn't need to be indexed is stuff like status updates, kickstarter "my stuff is here", anything related to Rich's personal life. But anything directly impacting the comic or Rich's beliefs about storytelling should be.

His threat to ban anyone who diverts this thread should definitely be indexed and given pride of place on the first post.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Jasdoif, I think you may have misunderstood him. At least, I hope you did. I'm assuming he did not mean "Hey, this is one of Rich's comments which does not meet the criteria for indexing that I just laid out. Let's index it!". I assume he meant something closer to "Hey, A forum administrator just gave a rule for how this thread should be run. It should probably be listed under the list of Thread Rules laid out in the first post!

After all, there IS a section of the first post for rules about this strip, AND "please do not bog this strip down with unrelated discussions" is not listed in these rules, AND this rule is important enough that one could be possibly be banned for violating it, so I could see why its inclusion into the "Thread rules" would be a good idea. The idea that Rich (as opposed to one of the other administrators) came up with this rule is irrelevant to this and, in fact, should not be mentioned. After all, none of the other rules mentioned who came up with them, so this should be no different.

So I, for one, think "Do not have any discussions in this thread which are not directly related to its subject" should be included in the list of Thread Rules. Feel free to disagree. Phantasm, feel free to overrule me.

[The Recreator]

I've got a question directly related to the matter of this thread: is there a way we can improve the comment indexing system?

I was looking for the "Durkon was always going to be turned undead" quote yesterday and it turned out to be easier for me to search through the latest posts in this thread than it was for me to use the index. I don't want to disparage the work ThePhantasm has done in here - this index is nothing short of an incredible resource - but a library is often only as good as its card catalog.

[Jasdoif]

I've got a question directly related to the matter of this thread: is there a way we can improve the comment indexing system?

I was looking for the "Durkon was always going to be turned undead" quote yesterday and it turned out to be easier for me to search through the latest posts in this thread than it was for me to use the index. I don't want to disparage the work ThePhantasm has done in here - this index is nothing short of an incredible resource - but a library is often only as good as its card catalog.

I agree that the current arrangement has gotten unwieldly. The quote you were looking for is "Durkon Becomes a Vampire" under "Story/Plot -> Writing Process and Story Development", which makes sense....But there are eight other entries in "Writing Process and Story Development" subcategory, not counting its own sub-subcategories, and itself is one of eight subcategories for "Story/Plot". So I can see why finding where a particular quote ended up could be a challenge.

I suppose the next question would be, how would you suggest the index be structured, so it'd be easier for you to find a quote you're looking for?

[The Recreator]

I suppose the next question would be, how would you suggest the index be structured, so it'd be easier for you to find a quote you're looking for?

Personally, I'd suggest moving the index to its own blog site, then tag each link with important characters, category, etc.

[FlawedParadigm]

Ideally the whole thing would be an offsite blog or wiki and not subject to forum rules, simply linked to from the forum and/or someone's sig.

[ThePhantasm]

The index's organization has indeed become unwieldy, and I'm working on it. The index was originally made at a time when Rich only rarely commented on the boards, and quotes were relatively scarce. Now new quotes com in almost every day, and the index is growing faster than anyone anticipated. Organization won't be corrected until the next MEGA-update. Until then, any suggestions are welcome. My current thoughts are:

1) Insert a "Table of Contents" with the categories / subcategories listed
2) Insert a "High Frequency" section with quotes related to topics currently frequently appearing in forum discussion (the quotes included / removed from this section would be decided by forum vote, nominations, etc.)
3) Insert a "Character" section with a list of quotes related to each main character, i.e. Durkon: Alignment, Past, Character Development, ..., so that if a particular character is being discussed you can quickly find info on him / her without trawling through the index.

Note that the "High Frequency" section and "Character" sections would both be double-posted sections, i.e. some quotes would be posted in these sections AND in the index.

An off-site index has been considered in the past. The consensus then (and my continuing feeling) is that the index should remain on-site, as it is a forum collaboration collecting forum quotes for use primarily in forum discussions. I don't think "the index wouldn't be under the forum rules anymore" is a good argument for moving the index off-site.

Regarding Rich's warning that anyone who goes off-topic will be banned... as a rule we don't put forum rules in the index. That's for the mods to publicize as they see fit. "Don't go off-topic" is already an aspect of the Forum Rules, which are posted at the top of EVERY page. If people don't take the time to read such rules at the top of every page, will they take the time to read it necessarily if it is posted at the top of the index? I'm not really concerned about that.

[littlebum2002]

Regarding Rich's warning that anyone who goes off-topic will be banned... as a rule we don't put forum rules in the index. That's for the mods to publicize as they see fit. "Don't go off-topic" is already an aspect of the Forum Rules, which are posted at the top of EVERY page. If people don't take the time to read such rules at the top of every page, will they take the time to read it necessarily if it is posted at the top of the index? I'm not really concerned about that.

Yeah, good point. Besides, I'm sure violating that rule will usually lead to an infraction; the "banning" threat was made more to those specific people who were having a VERY inappropriate discussion for these forums.


I think a major problem (one which cannot be solved, unfortunately, at least with the current setup) is that pretty everything needs to be put in spoiler tags so the first post isn't HUGE, which means you can't just Ctrl+F to find what you're looking for. The only solution would be to eliminate the spoiler tags, in which case the first post would be an impenetrable mess which would require Ctrl+F to find ANYTHING.

An off-site index has been considered in the past. The consensus then (and my continuing feeling) is that the index should remain on-site, as it is a forum collaboration collecting forum quotes for use primarily in forum discussions. I don't think "the index wouldn't be under the forum rules anymore" is a good argument for moving the index off-site.

Since "double posting" is allowed for people who create threads like this, so that they can have the first few threads open for their own use, maybe you could do the Table of Contents that way. Have, say, 5 initial posts: The first could contain the rules, the updates, and the Table of Contents, which would be split into 4 major sections. Each section would be linked to one of the 4 other initial posts which contains comments for that section. That way, the comments could be arranged without spoiler tags so Ctrl+F can be used, but people can also skip to what they want by simply moving to the relevant post and ignoring all others.

[ThePhantasm]

I agree about the spoiler tags. I think using tables may be a way to fix that (see Savannah's post here) and may make for some cleaner organization.

[littlebum2002]

I agree about the spoiler tags. I think using tables may be a way to fix that (see Savannah's post here) and may make for some cleaner organization.

Wow. That looks like it would be very useful but also very hard to create. Although I imagine it wouldn't be too hard if I knew how to code tables in BBCode

[Ron Miel]

A few suggestions for re-organising the index:

- Have a new main category Characters. Move here the sections Character Items, Stats & Quirks which I feel are not appropriate in the Rules category. Also include a few things like V's Children, and OOTS Age Range:

- possibly make Alignment a sub category of Characters.

- Make Writing Process and Story Development a main category, rather than a subset of Story/ Plot.

- have an Everything Else category, for things that don't fit into the main categories.

[ChristianSt]

I think a major problem (one which cannot be solved, unfortunately, at least with the current setup) is that pretty everything needs to be put in spoiler tags so the first post isn't HUGE, which means you can't just Ctrl+F to find what you're looking for. The only solution would be to eliminate the spoiler tags, in which case the first post would be an impenetrable mess which would require Ctrl+F to find ANYTHING.

There is one dirty hack to enable Ctrl+F: Quote the post, then you have the complete post and can search it.

[EnragedFilia]

There is one dirty hack to enable Ctrl+F: Quote the post, then you have the complete post and can search it.

This works fine for a single post, and for searching a whole page at once you can use view source (ctrl-u on most browsers).