Has anyone tried this houserule?

[Jaessick]

I was thinking of adding this houserule to a new E6 game I'm about to run and wanted to see if anyone has ever tried something similar and had any feedback. Basically I think that basing all extra skills on INT can get a little far-fetched, especially when it comes to skills that seemingly have little or no connection to intelligence at all, like Jump, Tumble, or Intimidate. So I'm thinking about making each ability grant extra skills; so in the case of a fighter you would have 2 + STR mod + DEX mod + CON mod + INT mod + WIS mod + CHA mod skills per level. The only catch is that each of these extra ranks per level would only be able to be used in skills that use that ability modifier, and any penalties you have to ability modifiers are taken from the pool of class skills that can be used in any skill.

So, for example, Azkickar the half-orc fighter has a +5 STR modifier, he has 5 skill ranks he can spend ONLY in Climb, Jump, and Swim and any other house-rulled STR based skills; but he also has a -1 CHA modifier, which means that his normal 2 skills per level that can be spent in any type of skill are reduced by 1. The same character has a +2 CON modifier, which can be spent in... Concentration.

Another example is Sir Singsalot, half-elf bard. He has managed to have a flat +0 for most of his ability mods, but has a +4 CHA mod. He gets his normal 6 skill ranks that he can use anywhere from his class, but can spend an additional 4 skill ranks in skills that are based on charisma, such as Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Perform, etc.

This houserule would generate a good deal of extra skills, but I'm not sure that's necessarily a bad thing. It also makes a little more sense to me, since no matter how smart you are you're not going to be better at jumping higher or further than someone who has physical training. Also, it evens out the number of skills each class gets a little more and favors those who don't min-max, so I'm thinking the effect is positive overall. I just haven't seen it in real play yet and was interested what people here think.

Thanks in advance for your critiques!

[SamBurke]

I was thinking of adding this houserule to a new E6 game I'm about to run and wanted to see if anyone has ever tried something similar and had any feedback. Basically I think that basing all extra skills on INT can get a little far-fetched, especially when it comes to skills that seemingly have little or no connection to intelligence at all, like Jump, Tumble, or Intimidate. So I'm thinking about making each ability grant extra skills; so in the case of a fighter you would have 2 + STR mod + DEX mod + CON mod + INT mod + WIS mod + CHA mod skills per level. The only catch is that each of these extra ranks per level would only be able to be used in skills that use that ability modifier, and any penalties you have to ability modifiers are taken from the pool of class skills that can be used in any skill.

So, for example, Azkickar the half-orc fighter has a +5 STR modifier, he has 5 skill ranks he can spend ONLY in Climb, Jump, and Swim and any other house-rulled STR based skills; but he also has a -1 CHA modifier, which means that his normal 2 skills per level that can be spent in any type of skill are reduced by 1. The same character has a +2 CON modifier, which can be spent in... Concentration.

Another example is Sir Singsalot, half-elf bard. He has managed to have a flat +0 for most of his ability mods, but has a +4 CHA mod. He gets his normal 6 skill ranks that he can use anywhere from his class, but can spend an additional 4 skill ranks in skills that are based on charisma, such as Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Perform, etc.

This houserule would generate a good deal of extra skills, but I'm not sure that's necessarily a bad thing. It also makes a little more sense to me, since no matter how smart you are you're not going to be better at jumping higher or further than someone who has physical training. Also, it evens out the number of skills each class gets a little more and favors those who don't min-max, so I'm thinking the effect is positive overall. I just haven't seen it in real play yet and was interested what people here think.

Thanks in advance for your critiques!

I would probably remove most classes' base skill points (excepting skill monkeys, obviously), or else your skills are going to become massively over-maxed.

They'll still be broken, though...

[Morph Bark]

You will get a whole ton of skill points then though and making skill-based classes rather useless. If you added only half of each ability modifier (rounded down) and either upped skill points for classes with 6 or 8 per level by 2 or lowered those with 2 or 4 by 1, then it would be a whole lot better.

Still, it likely would be a hassle when leveling up and leveling up should then certainly never happen during a session due to taking longer.

Skills are inherently based on learning capability though. A character with no ranks in Climb but with Strength 18 can climb just as well as a 4-rank Strength 10 character. In an E6 campaign skills won't rise so incredibly high from ranks, especially since they are hard-capped at 9 and beyond level 6 the only way to get more skill points is through the Open Minded feat, so I wouldn't advise doing this.

[Dr.Orpheus]

I think the reason skill points are based of intelligence is becaus, when you gain ranks in jump for example your legs don't become stronger, you learn jumping techniques.

[silver spectre]

When 3.0 first came out our group decided to try doing that. It ended up with everyone having a lot of maxed out skills.
It was fun, but a little too much, and our habitual thief/rogue player wasn't too happy with it.

We ended up just adding the ability modifiers (minus intelligence) together and adding them as bonus skill points only at first level.
Everyone got a small boost that helped us round out our characters a bit more without everyone being an "I can do everything" kind of character.

Every other group I've played with seemed allergic to the idea.

[Wyntonian]

Theory? It sounds awesome. Practice? less so. I'd recommend halving both the bonuses from ability mods and class levels, to even it out a bit. that leaves Rogues as the best skillmonkey-type class, (well, and scouts, but meh), but still helps out fighters and such.

[Othesemo]

To begin with, that just sounds needlessly complicated and easily abused. Intelligence 3 and charisma 3 just ceased to be a problem for barbarians (if it was in the first place).

Secondly, Intelligence is important to skills like tumble or climb. Think of it this way- your base talent at the skill is determined by the respective ability modifier, as is natural. However, in order for you to get better, rather than increasing your basic physical capabilities, you have to learn how to do the thing better. As far as tumbling goes, you'd have to memorize the proper technique for taking a fall, and practice it to the point of it becoming reflexive. No matter how fast you are, you still need to study this in order to do it.

However, those with high intelligence are more capable of memorizing the technique after only a few tries, granting them more time to learn something else (or, in game terms, giving them more skill points). Being dexterous certainly helps with tumbling, but it doesn't help you learn HOW to tumble at all.

[Eldest]

First, think of everything that intelligence does. Here's the list of things that effect all of the classes.
-Skill Points
-Bonus Languages

And thats it*. So if you take away skills, you are left with intelligence giving you fluency. Which is not that important to many people.

*that I remember. The SRD is blocked here, so I can't check.

[Dr.Orpheus]

First, think of everything that intelligence does. Here's the list of things that effect all of the classes.
-Skill Points
-Bonus Languages

And thats it*. So if you take away skills, you are left with intelligence giving you fluency. Which is not that important to many people.

*that I remember. The SRD is blocked here, so I can't check.

No need to check I do have the SRD, and your Right unless you count spells and the bonus to other class abilities or Int based skills etc. and that's if you even choose such abilities.

[Eldest]

That is why I said "affect all of the classes". So you would be taking away one of the reasons (really the only crunch reason) not to dump Int.

[jiriku]

Err... it seems a little odd to me that you find "smart people learn everything faster" to be a little far-fetched, but don't bat an eyelash at the idea of a world filled with people like "Azkickar the half-orc fighter" and "Sir Singsalot, half-elf bard". I mean really, you strum that lute and the stubborn guard is suddenly willing to give you the gate key -- if we can accept that, we can accept most anything, eh?

An argument in favor of keeping the skill-point ball in the Intelligence court:

Spoiler

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As someone who's been privileged to live and work with Very Smart People, I can tell you from my own observations that the reason the smart guy gets more skill points than the strong guy is that by the time the strong guy has become pretty capable at climbing a rope, the smart guy has read ten books on climbing ropes, making ropes, growing and harvesting hemp and silkworms, and the cultural impact that the rope-making industry has had on human development. Moreover, he's studied all the techniques and lessons involved, and he remembers and understands every single concept he read. Like the strong guy, he's also practiced extensively, but unlike the strong guy, the smart guy rarely made the same mistake twice, instantly figured out the significance of what he was learning and why he was learning it without needing to be told, and effectively transferred his book learning and relevant knowledge in other fields to the lesson at hand. Then, because he was bored, he inferred what the next lesson would be and what its impact would be on his climbing skill and started practicing that while he was waiting for the strong guy to get the hang of tying knots. True geniuses are getting bored with their mastery and moving on to new subjects while average people are still working hard to master the fundamentals. It doesn't matter if the subject is engineering, music performance, or dirt farming - they soak up techniques like sponges and comprehend important principles almost instantly. That's why Intelligence owns skill points.

Looking at your rule, it seems to make the game more complicated without making it better. As a general principle, you should never do that.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

I used a similar house rule for a campaign once:

At 1st level, you gain the listed skill points, without INT bonus.
You also gain a number of skill points equal to your bonus (if any) from each abiltiy score, which can be spent only on skill tied to the same ability score.
Each level thereafter, you gain skill points modified by your current class's Prime Ability, not INT.

A class's Prime ability is it's key stat: Clr = WIS; Ftr = STR; Rog = DEX; Wiz = INT, etc, etc.

It may be of interest to know that we've never used the rule since that one campaign.

In any case, it doesn't matter very much what you do with skills.
For any class other than the skillmonkeys, skills usually make little difference to the party once you get beyond mid-level - the casters can usually do better with magic than you can with skills.

[Morph Bark]

Y'know, with this houserule, prettymuch everyone will have 4 ranks in Concentration at the very least.

[PetterTomBos]

I have been playing with the same idea myself, with no good ideas :/ Perhaps the fix should rather be to make INT non-useful to most classes?

[Veklim]

Skills are part of the balancing act for classes, just like saves, BAB, abilities and spells. What you propose here removes that balance altogether, giving instead a rather flatline skill ratio between most classes/concepts.
A strong character is already good at physical activities, a charismatic one is better at using their presence to get things done and so therefore an intelligent character is meant to be better at learning and applying said knowledge (knowledge being an intelligence skill after all). Each skill has a stat tied to it for this very reason, the thought that making skill progression dependent upon the very same stat which already applies a direct bonus to it seems highy redundant. There is nothing wrong with intelligence ruling skills, because it's the only stat which makes any sense (although a limited arguement could be made for wisdom and dexterity, I will concede that much).
I don't know too much about E6 and how it varies from 3.5, but in the latter a fighter has no wis or con skills on their class list. Wisdom has valid use for certain fighter builds, and virtually ALL fighters need a half decent constitution. What happens then? Do they treat it as cross class? Why are they suddenly penalised again for not being able to effectively spend points which other classes have free reign with?
What you are suggesting is to completely change a core aspect of the game without paying a mote of notice to how this would upset the balance of the entire system.

[Yitzi]

A class's Prime ability is it's key stat: Clr = WIS; Ftr = STR; Rog = DEX; Wiz = INT, etc, etc.

Actually, except for spellcasters, "key stat" can be hard to determine by class. A barbarian's is probably STR, but might occasionally be CON. A fighter's can be STR or DEX (or maybe even CON), depending on build. The "classic" rogue's is probably DEX, but you can easily have rogues whose key abilities are INT or CHA as well. And so on...