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  1. - Top - End - #391
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Provengreil View Post
    Marbo's pretty balls-awesome in my experience. even in high point matches, taking out target anything with little chance of failure is a really good deal. the only thing you have to weigh him against is whatever else would have gone in that slot, which is why people say he shines in lower point matches. Also, if you can have him show up in cover, he's harder to deal with than normal guardsmen because he can actually do something in assault.
    I don't know much about IG but from the looks of it i think he looks better than the other elite choices.
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  2. - Top - End - #392
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    I don't know much about IG but from the looks of it i think he looks better than the other elite choices.
    Eh. Depends on how you use them. A psyker battle squad combined with Ratlings will pin anything that isn't Fearless. Ogryns are expensive, but good with Straken and a high-Ld IC on them, since Straken has his counter-attack bubble and they're too slow to guarantee getting the charge. Storm troopers tear up anything power-armored, especially if it's Eldar; the ability to reroll Deep Strike dice and take two special weapons in a five man squad makes them pretty good at the suicide Sternguard role, as well. And Marbo's a deserter; I've never fielded him but I was partnered with a Guard player who did in a doubles campaign once, and he was always too late to make a difference.
    Last edited by Renegade Paladin; 2011-11-20 at 01:15 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #393
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Eh. Depends on how you use them. A psyker battle squad combined with Ratlings will pin anything that isn't Fearless. Ogryns are expensive, but good with Straken and a high-Ld IC on them, since Straken has his counter-attack bubble and they're too slow to guarantee getting the charge. Storm troopers tear up anything power-armored, especially if it's Eldar; the ability to reroll Deep Strike dice and take two special weapons in a five man squad makes them pretty good at the suicide Sternguard role, as well. And Marbo's a deserter; I've never fielded him but I was partnered with a Guard player who did in a doubles campaign once, and he was always too late to make a difference.
    Psyker battle squad might work, but they are squishy, and if the enemy have any psychic deffence they won't be doing much.
    As for the ratlings i'm just not sure how much snipers are going to do. And they flee really easyly. But if used right 3 might be able to earn their points home.
    Ogryns seem good enough.
    Stormtroopers are WAY too expencive. A veteran is 7pts a stormtrooper is 16. I would go with the bodies.
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  4. - Top - End - #394
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    Psyker battle squad might work, but they are squishy, and if the enemy have any psychic deffence they won't be doing much.
    As for the ratlings i'm just not sure how much snipers are going to do. And they flee really easyly. But if used right 3 might be able to earn their points home.
    Ogryns seem good enough.
    Stormtroopers are WAY too expencive. A veteran is 7pts a stormtrooper is 16. I would go with the bodies.
    again, I speak more from personal experience facing the guard than anything else, but you've got those all backwards IMO.

    psyker battle squads are awesome. the leadership thing means that you can make terminators run from guardsmen. it's funny and effective at the same time. and for those times when that power won't help you, their blast one might. yes, they get kinda screwed if the enemy has psychic defense, but you're the guard, so...kill whatever's giving you a problem and move on.

    snipers have terrible leadership, it's true, but BS 4 sniping weapons are often underrated. they're very good vs monstrous creatures, rending gives them a chance vs anything else except armor 13/14, and pinning checks are an added bonus. they won't win you the battle, but you can often control your opponents target priority to allow them to do some damage, so they can stay on the field a while if you do it right. IIRC they have stealth too, so go for those cover saves.

    Storm troopers are rarely used, but can be used to great effect when they are. they'll cut down at least one squad to size, if not eliminate it entirely in most games. Additionally, the squad they'll hit is quite often worth more that the troopers themselves, so it's a net gain for you.

    I've never seen ogryns used well. they're a big scary target, sure, but if your opponent has any decent dakka, like a predator or some heavy bolter longfangs or dark eldar venoms, etc, they won't make it down the field. Even while dying this way, they won't usually do the "absorbs fire, so that's good" thing, since quite often the best fire to absorb is NOT being directed at them anyway. what IS being pointed at them is the right weapon for the job: a mid strength, mid AP weapon. shooting at them is rarely an opportunity cost, and since they don't get anywhere, that's all you could hope for: opportunity lost by directing shots at the ogryn.
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  5. - Top - End - #395
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    Stormtroopers are WAY too expencive. A veteran is 7pts a stormtrooper is 16. I would go with the bodies.
    However, Stormtroopers can also deepstrike accurately, infiltrate, pin, and melt power armor if they have enough shots (not to mention the availability of special weapons). I've never used them or fought them, but I watched part of a game of...I think it was Blood Angels vs IG, with lots of Stormtroopers, and they held their own firing from terrain while a few guardsmen tried to hold off the Marine advance. Fairly certain they were eventually drowned though, because the Marines just had too good of an early game for the remaining Stormtroopers to bring a lot of them down.

  6. - Top - End - #396
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Provengreil View Post
    again, I speak more from personal experience facing the guard than anything else, but you've got those all backwards IMO.

    psyker battle squads are awesome. the leadership thing means that you can make terminators run from guardsmen. it's funny and effective at the same time. and for those times when that power won't help you, their blast one might. yes, they get kinda screwed if the enemy has psychic defense, but you're the guard, so...kill whatever's giving you a problem and move on
    Making terminators run from guardsmen? That will require a lot of shooting. And as cool as that would be, i am wondering if it wouldn't be better just to go with some lascannons.

    snipers have terrible leadership, it's true, but BS 4 sniping weapons are often underrated. they're very good vs monstrous creatures, rending gives them a chance vs anything else except armor 13/14, and pinning checks are an added bonus. they won't win you the battle, but you can often control your opponents target priority to allow them to do some damage, so they can stay on the field a while if you do it right. IIRC they have stealth too, so go for those cover saves.
    They are awesome against wraithlord and c'tan. Quite good against tyranid. And for everything else i don't know.

    Storm troopers are rarely used, but can be used to great effect when they are. they'll cut down at least one squad to size, if not eliminate it entirely in most games. Additionally, the squad they'll hit is quite often worth more that the troopers themselves, so it's a net gain for you.
    That is what i have a hard time imagining.

    I've never seen ogryns used well. they're a big scary target, sure, but if your opponent has any decent dakka, like a predator or some heavy bolter longfangs or dark eldar venoms, etc, they won't make it down the field. Even while dying this way, they won't usually do the "absorbs fire, so that's good" thing, since quite often the best fire to absorb is NOT being directed at them anyway. what IS being pointed at them is the right weapon for the job: a mid strength, mid AP weapon. shooting at them is rarely an opportunity cost, and since they don't get anywhere, that's all you could hope for: opportunity lost by directing shots at the ogryn.
    They are about as tough as veterans, and can go in CC. Just keep close to lord commisar and you are ready to go. Also ogryns don't charge the enemy, the enemy charge them.
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  7. - Top - End - #397
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    The problem with Ogryns is that they're not Vendettas, Hellhounds, Leman Russes, Hydras, Veterans in Chimeras with 3 plasma/meltaguns or such. While they may be ok, IG has so many great choices they're overshadowed.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    Making terminators run from guardsmen? That will require a lot of shooting. And as cool as that would be, i am wondering if it wouldn't be better just to go with some lascannons.
    I know. first rank second rank could make it happen...maybe. that particular suggestion was more about the imagery. but it does work.
    They are awesome against wraithlord and c'tan. Quite good against tyranid. And for everything else i don't know.
    Don't underestimate rending. you don't always need to wipe a full squad when you shoot, and in fact you should rarely count on it. hoping for one or two rending wounds is per round for four rounds is plenty.
    That is what i have a hard time imagining.
    really? AP3 weaponry in large amounts can get rid of quite a lot...
    They are about as tough as veterans, and can go in CC. Just keep close to lord commisar and you are ready to go. Also ogryns don't charge the enemy, the enemy charge them.
    no, that's the idiot move unless the enemy is the orks. just shoot them, they'll die fast enough, and charge whoever's behind them. in just about every codex there are good units, bad units, broken units, and traps. Ogryn are in the last one.
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  9. - Top - End - #399
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    The problem with ogryns is the cost. They are too expensive for what they do. Also guardsman are not about close combat they are about shooting. So dont try and make your army average in combat because close combat armies will still stomp your army. Instead make your shooting better. Accentuating your strengths is the key to winning in 40k.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    The problem with ogryns is the cost. They are too expensive for what they do. Also guardsman are not about close combat they are about shooting. So dont try and make your army average in combat because close combat armies will still stomp your army. Instead make your shooting better. Accentuating your strengths is the key to winning in 40k.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    I freely admit I don't use ogryns; the models cost too much in currency and so far I can't be arsed to convert Ogre Kingdoms models for it. But five Ogryns fit in a Chimera, and their guns are moderately scary. Alternatively, loading them up with a primaris psyker can make it difficult for the enemy to shoot at them as they go up the board thanks to Nightshroud, and a screen of Guardsmen in front of them (conscripts, perhaps?) goes a long way toward giving them cover from enemy shooting if that fails. Tactics matter in this game.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    So, as promised, two and a half weeks of play-testing. I can finally say that I'm pretty much done with ironing out the Necron Codex. Winterwind's Guide covers a lot. But I feel that he's wrong on a few points - see if you can spot the differences. The below is also...Competitive.

    Disclaimer; Playtesting was done for and against Codex Marines, Chaos Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar, Black Templars - all of varying builds - and Deathwing.

    Stuff in red was stuff I was unclear on and hopefully gets Errata'd or FAQ'd.

    Special Rules:
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    Reanimation Protocols: All obvious jokes aside; it's basically a 5+ Ward Save. Both better and worse than Feel No Pain. Obviously, it's on a 5+, which isn't very good, but, you can take it against any wound. Including those Instant Death/AP2 shots that wreck Blood Angels and Dark Eldar.
    The downside is that it can't be used if all the models in the unit are 'down'. Which, on the one hand, your opponent is forced to unload a lot of firepower into one unit before moving onto the next, or, is encouraged into Sweeping Advance.
    Sweeping Advance wrecks Necrons. That's it. That being said, Assault wrecks Necrons, and most of them are Initiative 2, which means they're mostly never striking first - or even simultaneously - and they're really bad at running from combat. Even 'shooty' units like Tactical Squads and Scouts actually want to be in Assault with Necrons. Because they'll win.

    Ever-Living: Limited to Independent Characters, it's basically Reanimation Protocols (but it isn't?) for models that don't have units. Like Independent Characters.

    Entropic Strike: Borderline useless. Most non-vehicle units only have one wound which means they're dead anyway. And, against vehicle-units, you're either slogging it up to your opponent's DZ to hit Leman Russes (which is not the best idea), or your hitting opposing Rhinos that are in your DZ - which you should use other things for. Most units that can have Entropic Strike, are usually taking it at the cost of something else. Which is bad.

    Living Metal: Basically a better version of Extra Armour. Useful when it works. Invisible when it doesn't. Included in the points cost of all Necron vehicles (assumed) whether you want it or not.

    Quantum Shielding: Rather than talk about it later, it's like Living Metal and is on all vehicles so why not? It basically makes you FA/SA 13 until the first penetrating hit. Against single-shots it works fine. Unfortunately the meta-game is lousy with Plaserbacks, and so the Lascannon breaks the shield, and the Plasmaguns do the rest. Or multi-hit units like Devastators/Long Fangs or Suicide Sternguard. Similar to Dark Eldar Shadow Fields, we rolled individual hits from the same unit until the first fail which is an exception to the 'simultaneous shooting' rule, I know. But Shadow Fields set precedent.
    And Dark Eldar, playing Lance spam (they all do) basically ignore it anyway and treat all your vehicles the same as everyone else's.

    Tesla vs. Gauss? Wait...What? Was Nikola Tesla a Necron? Why did Necrons name their weapons that...Moving on.
    Tesla weapons have AP-. It doesn't really how many hits you get or at what strength. Imperial Guard don't take Punishers. Tesla weapons only do extra hits on a '6', which means if you miss, you miss (in the case of Carbines), and in the case of others, on a 3-5 you just hit. Remember, AP-. Sanguinary Guard are laughing. Dreadnoughts without DCCWs are S6 and don't even ignore saves and everyone laughs at those in combat. High(ish) strength doesn't mean anything if you can still save. Plasmaguns aren't taken because they're S7. They're taken because they're AP2 and kill Terminators and ignore FNP.
    Gauss weapons throw out roughly the same amount of shots that Tesla weapons do. But don't allow Orks or 'Nids out in the open their saves (Imperial Guard are generally in foxholes). And, on '6s', instead of throwing out 'more nothing', do damage to vehicles. So, when your opponent has Meched up and there's no Infantry on the board, your Warriors and Ghost Arks still have targets.
    Killing Infantry isn't hard. It's vehicles that are the problem.


    HQ: (not Uniques)
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    Overlord: An expensive HQ for one that doesn't do much except Force Multiply. At S/T 5 he looks like he wants to be in Assault, but with only 3 attacks at Initiative 2, he pales in comparison to other HQ-level choices in combat. His average WS of 4 doesn't exactly help. So, he wants to be shooting, right? Well. Wrong. His ranged weapon isn't very good and he only has BS4. So, what does he do? Well, Force Multiplies by way of his expensive Wargear.
    Unlocks Royal Courts.

    Phaeron: Relentless is good for when you want to shoot Rapid Fire or Heavy weapons and then Assault afterwards. Necrons don't want to Assault. Don't waste points.

    Staff of Light: AP3 isn't good. Thousand Sons are not good. Cover saves negate it. Swap this for anything.
    Gauntlet of Fire: Shoots like a Flamer, and allows re-rolls To Hit and Wound. At S5, you want those hits to count, and ICs without Power Weapons are bad. Still, you want to take at least this every time, because Necrons don't ignore Cover very well.
    Voidblade: Rending isn't that good for an IC (ask Gabriel Seth), and Entropic Strike doesn't do anything, always ignore for...
    Warscythe: Turns you into a Monstrous Creature. S7, ignore saves, 2D6 for Armour Penetration. Why does a Voidblade cost the same? Was somebody drunk?

    Phylactery: Pay 15 points for something else. It gets used once, doesn't work for Ever-living which means if you're the last one left nothing happens?, and only works 33% of the time, and, of that third, you have another 33% chance to be no different from a regular RP roll. It's only really good for when your Overlord gets one-shotted in the first round of combat, and gets to stand back up using Reanimation Protocols instead of Ever-Living if he was the last to die.
    Mindshackle Scarabs: At T5, you're hard to wound. But, stuff like Force Weapons and Arjac/Lysander will mess you up. Instead, these allow you to mess up your opponent's unit. Particularly funny when you roll more attacks than he would normally have.
    Sempiternal Weave: On an IC, shooting hits should be directed to the squad, and hits in Assault are generally Power Weapon hits. Space Marines don't get Artificier Armour and Necrons don't get Weaves.
    Tesseract Labrynth: The times when it does work pays for the times it doesn't. Even if it does cost 20 points, there's no reason not to take it.
    Tachyon Arrow: One use only, at BS4. Space Marines don't pay extra to take an Orbital Bombardment (which is better than Arrow by far), so Necrons shouldn't pay through the nose just to fail. See Phylacteries.
    Resurrection Orb: Good. Yes. Doesn't work for Ever-Living?
    Phase Shifter: Independent Characters swear by their Invulnerables. Overlords are 135 points base.

    Catacomb Command Barge:
    80 points for an Open-Topped AV11 Transport that can only take one guy? Ignore this crap and just put your Overlord in a unit of Warriors and take a Ghost Ark. If you're on your own in a Command Barge, you're not using your Resurrection Orb on a unit of Warriors/Immortals. Tesla weapons are junk and... You know what? Command Barges are bad. If you want to run around on your own, take a Destroyer Lord. And they don't even go on their own.

    Royal Court:
    One for every Overlord in your army. The downside to keeping the Royal Court in one big unit (if you want that ) is that they don't have access to Dedicated Transports and will have to wait a turn (Solar Pulse to stay alive) or pop in through an expensive Monolith.

    Regular Lords aren't even bad as they're basically cheap Overlords with less wounds and without the Independent Character rule which means they have as many wounds as the squad around them. Handy for when you need more 'Orbs but don't want to pay through the nose to get them.
    The only difference between Overlords and Lords is that for Lords, Phase Shifters are bad. Don't waste points.

    Crypteks;
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    Despair: Abyssal Staves are fine at 5 points apiece. Nightmare Shrouds are bad because Marines can just Combat Tactics into ATSKNF that crap and Fearless units ignore it. Veil of Darkness is likewise bad. Space Marines aren't using Gate of Infinity, and they even get Locator Beacons. Don't pay 30 points. Despairs are only useful because cover-busting is important.

    Destruction: Hard anti-tank at 10 points? Where do I sign? Feel free to take 5 of these guys as one unit if you want. Gaze of Flame is good as well because it stops your Necrons getting ruined in Assault. And Solar Pulse? Well, it's borderline broken. Until you realise that it forces your opponent into Assault, and that Dark Eldar and Space Wolves both have Acute Senses for free. Solar Pulses are very, very good. But...They wont win the game. In larger points it is worth it to take two Overlords to unlock two Royal Courts to have access to two Solar Pulses.

    Eternity: Aeonstaves are free. And bad. If they were Power Weapons they'd be broke. But they're not so they aren't. Chronometrons are amazing and let your Overlord re-roll his Phylactery and Tachyon Arrows - if you gave them to him. Eternities should be sticking to Overlords like flies on camel crap if that's the case. Timesplitter Cloak? Same as Lords. Not an Independent Character. Don't waste points.

    Storm: Soft Anti-Tank with 12" range for free. Not bad. Lightning Field; Assault Defense!? Pretty good. S8, AP5 will stall Dark Eldar. Ether Crystal; Deep Strike Defense!? Get as many as you can! Stops stuff from Melta-ing your tanks. Stops Vanguard from dropping your unit, etc. Close 2nd or 3rd best Cryptek.

    Transmogrification: Tremorstaves are incredibly good at 5 points apiece because the only reason Marines don't take Thunderfire Cannons en masse is because they come at the cost of Predators. Seismic Crucible is nice, but not neccessary. And Harp of Dissonance can be ignored. Tremorstaves for 5 points. That's it.

    Royal Court - 220 Points (plus Lords)
    Destruction; Gaze of Flame, Solar Pulse
    Destruction; [Eldritch Lance]
    Eternity; Chronometron
    Storm; Lightning Field, Ether Crystal
    Transmogrification; [Tremorstave]


    Bare minimum you want one Destruction Solar Pulse. And maybe one Eternity Chronometron if you're tooling out your Overlord with One-Shots.

    Destroyer Lord:
    For 35 points, you're exchanging your Staff of Light for a Warscythe (10 points) and gaining the Jump Infantry rule (25 points in other Codecies). That right there you're breaking even. However, you also gain one more point of Toughness (no more Instant Death for you) and Preferred Enemy (Everything!). Yes, that's a thing now.
    Downsides; No Invulnerable (neither does Mephiston and most TMCs and people still take those), no access to Royal Courts, and, the units he typically joins aren't Scoring. Yes, he's an Independent Character, which means he's not getting shot at. Which means the only time he's getting hurt is in combat and that's where his T6 is.
    His Initiative 2 really, really hurts for a combat character. And then he's a prime target for Jaws of the World Wolf. His Jump Infantry status gives him another go, but I2 is I2. And, at I2, Dark Eldar are going to rip him a new one because they don't give a damn about T6.

    Gauntlet of Fire: You're re-rolling To Hit anyway, and with S7 from the Warscythe you don't need to re-roll To Wound. Especially not at the cost of going from a S7 Power Weapon to a S5 nothing.
    Staff of Light: Terrible on an Overlord, and he even wants to be Shooting (sort of).
    Voidblade: Warscythes are better than Voidblades in every way. Do not pay points for this crap.

    Sempiternal Weave: If you can't take an Invulnerable, take a base save. It's good enough for Mephiston, it's good enough for you. What? You want one more Warrior instead? Please.
    Mindshackle Scarabs: Because you don't have an Invulnerable, these are even better on a Destroyer Lord than on an Overlord.
    Tachyon Arrow: Better than on an Overlord, since your Jump Infantry status gives you better angles/LoS. But, not having an Eternity Cryptek brown-nosing your Destroyer Lord makes it a risky effort.
    Resurrection Orb: A Destroyer Lord is generally running with small units or units that don't have RP (Wraiths). Not always worth it.

    A Destroyer Lord really shines in low-point games (like Swarmlord) where nothing can really hurt him. In larger games, you have more points to throw around on an Overlord and Royal Court. But, in larger point games you also have more points to spend on larger Jump Infantry units for your DL to jump around with.

    Overlords and Royal Courts Force Multiply Warriors, Immortals, and Deathmarks (and don't do much for Lychguards).
    Destroyer Lords...Kill stuff.


    Troops:
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    Warriors:
    13 points apiece. 4+ save. Soft anti-tank on every weapon. Not even bad. Probably not worth it to go with one stompy unit of 20 because Necrons all the cost the same (there's no hidden cost on Sergeants), and there are no 1 per 5/10 options that usually want to make you take large(r) units. For a normal unit, 7-9 + Over/Lord +/- Cryptek is enough.

    Ghost Arks:
    Only Warriors can take GAs as Transports (although anyone can get in them) so I'll put them here. Fine. Work best when sitting with or next to Warriors since the rules make it obvious. But, note that Repair Barge can't take a unit above it's starting number of models. Which means MSU+Transport doesn't work Warriors, or doesn't work as well as it does for other Codecies. Also, doesn't provide Hard Anti-Tank like Plaserbacks do.

    Because of needing to roll '6s' for a Glancing Hit on all Gauss weapons (soft anti-tank), most Warrior units are required to have a Destruction Cryptek in their unit for the S8 shots (hard anti-tank). Destruction Crypteks cost points, and come at the cost of other Crypteks since you may want other ones instead of 5 Destructions.

    Immortals:
    17 points each for better guns and a 3+ save. Is 4 points more than Warriors worth it? Yes. Yes it is. 7 is fine. There are no bonuses for having more in the unit and Ghost Arks don't work for Immortals. Looks like Necrons still play the Rule of 7s even in 5th Ed. Don't take Tesla Carbines. Take a Night Scythe and let that kill Infantry while Immortals try and pop a tank.

    The difference between Immortals and Warriors is the Armour Save, better guns and Ghost Arks. Warriors are Tau, and Immortals are Space Marines.


    Elites:
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    Only because 'Troops => Elites' is the way the Codex writes.

    Deathmarks: Relies mostly on your opponents taking Reserves (not always the case), and relies mostly on your opponent actually getting his Reserves (not always the case). The other problem with Ethereal Interception is that you arrive on the enemy's turn, before the Shooting and Assault phase. Which means your opponent can deal with them. Unlike entering in your turn, where the Deathmarks could shoot, or you could move other units to block LoS or Assault the units that could threaten the Deathmarks in their next turn.
    The other problem, similar to Veil of Darkness-es, is that Deep Strike is not reliable for Necrons, so don't do it. That means deploying normally on the board and then you end up wasting points like Vanguard without Jump Packs.
    If you deploy first, your opponent has no units 'on the battlefield', so Hunters from Hyperspace doesn't process?
    Adding a Phaeron makes Assault 2, Snipers which isn't shabby at all.
    If Lords/Crypteks join they appear to lose Ethereal Interception like Vanguard and Space Marines.

    Lychguards: For 200 points they need to be as good as Hammernators and/or Sanguinary Guard. They aren't. Sure, you're giving them Dispersion Shields everytime (add a Royal Court Lord with a Warscythe), but, a 3+/4++ save is not the same as 2+/3++, and it really will make a difference. Because Hammernators are wounding back on 2s, and may even have a pair or two of Lightning Claws to strike first. Sanguinary Guard and Thunderwolves will crush Lychguard and barely break a sweat.
    Dispersion is good, sure. But, during the first two turns, you're likely to get shot at and Dispersion wont process. If, in the first two turns, you've already been Assaulted (by Blood Angels/Dark Eldar), you're probably not going to have fun as both BA/DE have high Initiative and Dark Eldar Assault units (Wyches) likewise have a 4+ Invulnerable and lots of attacks.

    Praetorians: 200 points. Again. They want to be as good as Hammernators or Sanguinary Guard. Sort of. As Jump Infantry and Fearless, they make fine Destroyer Lord Delivery Systems, as they will pass Fearless onto the Lord. Their weapons are AP2 (which is not the same as AP3), and with their Jump Infantry status they can get in range to use them. They're also Power Weapons which isn't bad at all. The other thing is, if you're close enough to use the Rod, you're close enough to Assault, so hopefully you end up with more than 1 attack. The Destroyer Lord with Preferred Enemy (Everything!) should do most of the work. The other option is to swap out for Voidblades for +1 attack because the Lord is doing the real damage anyway. Not bad. But not really worth 40 points each either.

    C'Tan Shard: S/T 7 with actual Monstrous Creature status (Move Through Cover for free, although C'Tan get better than that) and a 4+ Invulnerable and Eternal Warrior. With the cheapest powers (one bad, one amazing), you're 205 points and don't really need to go past that. Mephiston wishes he was this good because taking Perils wounds sucks. Anyway, must take two;

    Entropic Touch: You're a S7 Monstrous Creature. Ignore. Unless you need to be cheap.
    Lord of Fire: Defense against Monstrous Creature-bane? Yes please. Why so cheap?
    Pyreshards: AP- is bad. Don't pay 15 points to be worse than a Punisher. Why would you do that to yourself?
    Swarm of Spirit Dust: Assault Grenades is fine, but T7 should take most of the damage. And getting MCs a cover save is hard enough, so Stealth wont do much. Are Defensive Grenades worth 20 points and a Power Slot? Not really.
    Moulder of Worlds: AP- hasn't got any better. Especially for S4. For 25 points. I'm laughing at how bad this is.
    Sentient Singularity: I heard Warp Quake makes people cry. This power is the toned down (like it should be) version of that. Pair with Storm Cryptek.
    Writhing Worldshape: Paired with Transmogrification Cryptek and you basically cut half your opponent's army out from under them. Shooty armies need to get out of cover.
    Grand Illusion: After Scout moves is nice. But if you need to redeploy you've already done something wrong. Putting units into Reserve is handy though.
    Time's Arrow: Like a Tesseract Labryinth, but Initiative Tests are easier to pass than Wound checks. But, this can be used all the time. Keep in mind that Power Fists and the like only strike at Initiative 1, they don't actually change the model's Initiative value.
    Transdimensional Thunderbolt: If you're going to get a Shooting attack, get this. Hard anti-tank is what the Necrons need. And it's far better than the AP- crap you could otherwise shoot. A Destruction Cryptek is only 35 points. Keep that in mind.
    Gaze of Death: If you're charging into cover without Swarm of Spirit Dust (because it isn't good), this fixes everything and ignores FNP while it's at it. 50 points is worth it. You want to bog the C'Tan down with Guardsmen? You do that. We'll see how that works out for you.

    Lord of Fire is nearly always good except against Orks. Singularity, Worldshape, Thunderbolt and Gaze are other good ones. Due to Uniqueness, having two C'Tan actually works out pretty well because you don't need Worldshape or Singularity twice.

    Flayed Ones: No Power Weapons, Rending or even Entropic Touch, no Grenades, Initiatve 2. Lords/Crypteks can't join them and Deep Striking Necrons is bad. At 13 points apiece ignore them, take more Warriors if you want and use your Elite slots for anything else. At worst, take a minimum unit of 5 and use them for Infiltration denial. That's it. Can't even take a Night Scythe. Speaking of...

    Night Scythes: It's not Open-Topped which is already a plus. And the Twin-Linked Tesla Destructor is basically an Autocannon Dread that can get more hits for 100 points. Bargain, really. You don't really even need to Transport anything (say, for Deathmarks or squatting Immortals). Yes, AP- is bad. But, Autocannon Dreads are shooting at Plaserbacks and Predators so AP doesn't mean anything. 100 points for an Autocannon Dread...
    It can transport Jump Infantry, but, Stormraven it ain't. It isn't Open-Topped so you can't Assault out of it and doesn't really pack the same firepower that a Stormraven does, and has 1 less AV and is vulnerable to Melta. So, as far as a Transport goes, it's mighty rubbish. But it's 100 points for an Autocannon Dread.
    If you are going to Transport something in it, putting the unit into Reserve isn't that bad. Does the unit inside still take S3 hits? Can it make Reanimation rolls? When a Plaserback is destroyed, the unit that was inside it suddenly becomes very vulnerable. Not so for Night Scythes. You basically get to keep your unit safe. Maybe you should've thought about how good it is to have a 100 point Dreadnought and ignore the Transport Capacity?

    Triarch Stalker: Not bad at all. A bit pricey for a vulnerable Dreadnought (Open-Topped Walker, really?). Twin-Linked Heavy Gauss Cannon is the best pick. But at 165 points it's not worth it. But off the Twin-Linking you can get that hit, and then go from there. But, with a Heavy Gauss Cannon, whatever you've hit shouldn't be feeling too well anyway. The Heat Ray is excellent, but Necrons need the range of a Heavy Gauss Cannon too.


    Fast Attack:
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    Not just 'Troops that move 12".'

    Wraiths: Fearless Jump Infantry. 35 points apiece. 3, S6 Rending Attacks. 3+ Invulnerable all'round! Praetorians can suck it. These guys make fantastic Destroyer Lord Delivery Systems, especially because Whip Coils allow you to strike first. And, because Wraiths don't have Reanimation Protocols (is that bad?), your Destroyer Lord doesn't really need to carry around a Resurrection Orb. So, points saved there for more Wraiths. I guess. They're really good. Mephistion has a hard time dealing with these guys since they're striking first and wounding him on 4s with more than a few of those ignoring his no-Invulnerable. Not to mention the Destroyer Lord with Warscythe re-rolling To Hit, and then Wounding Mr. Fiston on 3s.

    Scarabs: Meh. Lots of attacks with Entropic Strike is good. But 'Beasts' is bad. Wouldn't you just rather those Scarabs to have S6 Rending attacks and move as Jump Infantry with a 3+ Invulnerable save? I know I would.

    Tomb Blades: Huh...20 Point Jetbikes with Twin-Linked S5 guns (what? Tesla Carbines? Tomb Blades can't have those), they're actually pretty good. Except for Shield Vanes (and probably not even then), you don't need the other upgrades. Unfortunately, outclassed by...

    Destroyers: 60 Points for a T5 Lascannon with Jump Infantry. Not bad. Preferred Enemy (Everything!) means they can assault if they want to, not that they should.


    Heavy Support:
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    Doomsday Ark: 175 points for an Open-Topped AV11 vehicle. Dark Eldar Razorwings and Ravagers are laughing at you right now. 72" range means you can trade shots with a Fire Prism or Leman Russ...Guess who'll win? Hint: You're AV11(13) Open-Topped.

    Annihilation Barge: 90 points for a Night Scythe/Ghost Ark cross, without the Transport Capacity or the Repair Barge rule. Killing Infantry is easy. Just take actual Night Scythes and save your Heavy slots for something else.

    Monolith: The Gauss Flux Arcs can't hit anything, AP3 Particle Whip is ignored by cover. The only thing really good about it is that it ignores Reserve rolls - including Turn 1 which means your Deathmarks aren't all bad if you deploy/go first - the issue with the corridor is that 2" from the door isn't very far so you can't pull the huge unit of 20 Warriors out.
    Portal of Exile is used when stuff is trying to Assault the Monolith. And the only thing that should be Assaulting AV14 are Monstrous Creatures and they have S6 (usually).
    Other than that, AV14 is Melta-bait. Try having a C'Tan with Lord of Fire near it. Dark Eldar Lances are still laughing.

    Doom Scythes: Now, I don't really believe that any particular unit 'breaks' the game, or makes any one army win 100% of the time. But Doom Scythes are incredibly, very, very good.

    "Every unit underneath the line, suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line."

    Wha-...What!? That is incredibly poor wording and rife with broken-ness.
    The way it's currently worded, means that if the 'line' clips even one model, every model in the unit takes a S10, AP1 hit. HOLY CRAP. Paladins and Tyranid Warriors are pissing themselves. All Horde armies just got put through the floor. The Death Ray hits more than one unit. And, like a Hellhound, the 'line' doesn't even need to line up with the barrel. Just pick a point, roll some dice and everything dies.

    Yes, it has a 12" range, but it has Aerial Assault, which means if it comes on from Reserve, and your opponent is in your face Assaulting you (because you used two Solar Pulses and Assault kills Necrons), the Doom Scythe - or 3, because you're like that - rolls up and wipes the board clean. You win. GG Ward. GG.

    What it should be, is
    "Every unit underneath the line, suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models underneath the line in the unit."
    ...See the difference?

    But it doesn't. The way it should be worded is like Jaws of the World Wolf or above.


    I could be wrong. But a GW Blackshirt told me this is how it works and so that's how we played it. Even if it doesn't, it's still amazingly powerful and destroys 'Death Star' units like Paladins and Tyranid Warriors in one go. If it works like that, it's like Suicide Sternguard. By the time it dies, it's already done it's thing. If it works the terribly worded way (RAW), then it's broke and needs fixing immediately.
    Again, similar to Suicide Sternguard, a lot of people haven't yet seen, or refuse to see it's value (boo! 12" range) until it's used on them.
    I play-tested the 'makes sense' way, and I play-tested the broken (RAW) way, both are very powerful.

    Tomb Spyders: S/T 6 Monstrous Creature, and poops Scarabs. 50 points isn't bad. Fabricator Claws don't do a whole lot. But Gloom Prisms give Psychic Defense. It doesn't stop Mephiston doing his thing. But hang one near a C'Tan and it can mess with Living Lightning. But, due to Card Games, my friends are unclear on what 'Target' could mean, and didn't think it stopped AoE Powers like Null Zone or Jaws. Still messes with Lash though. Necrons do not like Lash. No sirree.


    So, yeah. That's Necrons. I'm currently thinking of them as 'New Tau'. On par with Space Marines. But Mephiston, Sanguinary Guard, Thunderwolves, Long Fangs and such generally roll over most Necron armies I put together. And Dark Eldar and Deathwing just made a mess of them nearly everytime, with a few Draws.

    I'm probably going to cop some flak over the Doom Scythe bit. But, that's how it's worded.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Ok I need some help, I have been playing against tau a lot recently and have lost every game against them so far. I have been playing with my blood angels razorback list. Against every other army I have faced I have done really well, guard, orks, chaos, demons, greyknights, space marines, tyranids. But no matter what tau army I face I get stomped. If the tau get the first turn then it is almost a complete wipe out. If I get the first turn it is a lot easier but I still take massive casualties and the game ends up closer to a draw.

    The problem is that about half my vehicles get wrecked or immobilised on the first turn which forces me to footslog my units across the board. If he gets the first turn then I am stuck in my deployment zone but if I get the first turn at least I am closer to him. By the time I reach combat I usually only have a couple of sanguinary priests and maybe a few assault marines or tactical marines and even though they are fighting tau they still die against crisis suits.

    I have tried reserving everything but then my army comes in piecemeal so he can focus everything on a few units at a time.

    Any ideas on how to make my army better at taking out tau? Currently it is:

    -Librarian
    -Honour Guard, 4x flamers, Razoback with Heavy flamer, dozer blade, storm bolter

    -Sanguinary Priest with Power weapon
    -Sanguinary Priest with Power weapon

    -Tactical Squad, Plaserback, storm bolter, dozer blade
    -Tactical Squad, Plaserback, storm bolter, dozer blade
    -Assault Squad, meltagun, powerfist, Plaserback, storm bolter, dozer blade
    -Assault Squad, meltagun, powerfist, Plaserback, storm bolter, dozer blade

    -Baal Predator, Assault cannon, Heavy bolters, Storm Bolter, Dozer blade
    -Whirlwind
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky S View Post
    The problem is that about half my vehicles get wrecked or immobilised on the first turn
    Use Reserves.
    Suicide Sternguard work just as well in Blood Angels as they do in Codex Marines. Honour Guard can do it too. Sort of.
    If your opponent is stupid, a Drop Podding Blood Lance (Librarian, Lib-Dread) can take out all of his vehicles and there isn't anything he can do about it. Also kills Broadsides if they're a thing too. You don't need to roll to hit. Just everything dies.
    Hold Baal Predators in Reserve. Use Outflank. Tau have barely any 2+ armour. Flamestorms and Heavy Flamers'll work. So will Assault Cannons.
    Stormravens come in your table edge 12", guys jump out 2", Assault 6". There should be an 18" kill zone on your edge.

    Vanguard will drop Tau. Use a Scout Squad to Infiltrate/Scout a Locator Beacon up. Or just land a Drop Pod.

    I have tried reserving everything but then my army comes in piecemeal so he can focus everything on a few units at a time.
    From your list, it simply just looks like you don't have the tools that beat Tau. It's that simple, that's why you can't win. One Drop Pod, a couple of Stormravens, and more Baals or Vanguard (like most BA lists), and you'll be rolling over Tau - and nearly every 'casual' list.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Very interesting guide Cheesegear, i think ill take my time to study it in dept later, but right now i noticed you made a slight error, Wraiths have a 3++ save.

    Also regarding Necrons deepstriking down, did you try using the Chronometer to make that more accurate?
    From what i can see, you can use the reroll if you end up with a high scatter distance, so that might make a deepstriking court viable.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Very interesting guide Cheesegear, i think ill take my time to study it in dept later, but right now i noticed you made a slight error, Wraiths have a 3++ save.
    Typo. Well done.

    Also regarding Necrons deepstriking down, did you try using the Chronometer to make that more accurate?
    Oh. Good catch, as per Heroic Intervention, if a Cryptek joins a unit of Deathmarks, they lose the Ethereal Interception rule. Well, we assumed that was the case since it's the same for similar in other Codecies. So we never did try that.

    Besides, that'd only be one unit.

    Remember, Chronometron only works on his unit. Not over the whole board.
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    Doom Scythes: how much do you feel like getting punched in the face today? A lot or just a little bit?

    Neat writeup. I believe Eternal Warrior is only there to catch IC on their own in the open. Which they shoudn't be.

    My thoughts on the IC's now that they have had the time to sink in:
    The Stormlord: potential to be awesome, potential to do nothing and be expensive. Facing a gunline: awesome. Facing SW, DE, short range shooting or any assault list: meh. The last four happen to be about two thirds of all list I see and the rest can usually work around shorter visibility (hi Lumbering Behemoth). Taking the initiative could be cool but again, about 50% chance of paying for something you don't use.
    Nemesor Zahny: Force multiplier^2. Not-that-terrible wargear would bring him to 180 points. Five points more gives you the possibility to be an utter ****. mess with rules (taking away furious charge and hanfding out defensive counter-charge would be my choice but a Stealthy Flat-out cover save sounds appetizing too for the doom scythes.
    Vargard Obyron: CC specialist in an army that wants to stay out of CC. Good at what he does but does not synergize well.
    Illuminator Szeras: Destroyer cryptek with IC but no solar pulse. Bit random for the points you pay over a regular Cryptek.
    Orikan the Diviner: too random for my taste. on turn one the enemy does not go very fast, imho best of his upgrades despite the fact that it does nothing against raiders, valkieries or stormravens. Then at some point he Hulks up and a turn or two later he hulks down again (which could kill him). in the meantime he made some of your reserves arrive on time. Which you don't really have with all the wildly inacurate deepstriking. Yay.
    Trazyn the Blood Raven: Scoring is awesome despite the fact that most of the units he can or will join are scoring anyway. Has the chance to be great at combat despite not wanting to be there. If you combo him with dispersion shield lychguard in a night scythe he is expensive but should chop his way into the opponents deployment zones.
    Anrakyr the Traveler: Mind in the machine allone makes it worth it over an overlord. Have him join his Phyrrian (why are they named after an ancient greek king?) immortals and move towards your opponents dropzone to mess with his gunline.

  18. - Top - End - #408
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Remember, Chronometron only works on his unit. Not over the whole board.
    Yeah, i were more thinking about using it on royal court units, who uses the veil of darkness to deepstrike down somewhere where the unit can either hit some rear armor with the S8 lances, or else get something nice and expensive down under 4 of the AP 1 templates.

    Also, under Night Scythes you propose using them to shut down Vehicles, but dont you think the -1 penalty on the damage roll for being AP- is a bit troublesome there?

    Thats also the reason for why i think storm Cryptecs are kinda bad, they will mostly inflict glancing hits, with a -3 penalty on the damage table.

    Doom Scythes: how much do you feel like getting punched in the face today? A lot or just a little bit?
    I guess the question to be consideret here is, "Are you faster than the guy you are playing against?"?

    edit.

    Just came up with the most hilariously funny CC unit in the game, 5 Lords with Mindshackle scarabs, and a couple of Cryptects.

    This unit should have a very good chance of making CC monsters like Swarmlord or Merphiston kill themself, or to make elite CC units like terminators just stand around bashing each other with Thunderhammers
    Last edited by lord_khaine; 2011-11-21 at 05:52 AM.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Tesla vs. Gauss? Wait...What? Was Nikola Tesla a Necron? Why did Necrons name their weapons that...Moving on.
    You could have been asking the same question about Carl Gauss since the last codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    If it works the terribly worded way (RAW), then it's broke and needs fixing immediately.
    The RAW is ambiguous and could be read in the broken or the proper way.

    React to anyone trying that the same way you would someone embarking vehicles into vehicles (which, by RAW, is possible, and far less ambiguous than this wording).
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Chocobo View Post
    You could have been asking the same question about Carl Gauss since the last codex.
    Probably.

    The RAW is ambiguous and could be read in the broken or the proper way.
    That's why the whole thing is in red. It needs to be clarified. Purifiers do roughly the same thing, but not at S10, AP1. So it may be intentional. Or not. Like I said; Red.

    React to anyone trying that the same way you would someone embarking vehicles into vehicles (which, by RAW, is possible, and far less ambiguous than this wording).
    Well, no. Because it states on page 66 that only infantry models may embark in transports. Are vehicles Infantry? No. How is that ambiguous?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    I must admit, I never really looked at Eldar weapon platforms. They just seemed a bit boring to me, especially compared to the much cooler tanks and wraithlords I could have instead in the same slots.

    Then I actually saw how bloody cheap they are.

    What do people think about the support weapon platforms? Are they worth it? Which weapons would you put on them? Cheap shadow weavers? D-cannons? Are vibrocannons at all useful?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    What do people think about the support weapon platforms? Are they worth it? Which weapons would you put on them? Cheap shadow weavers? D-cannons? Are vibrocannons at all useful?
    I see D-Cannons get thrown around every now and then. They are portable vortex holes after all and cause Pinning. Other than that, Vibrocannons and Shadow Weavers have AP-.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Well, no. Because it states on page 66 that only infantry models may embark in transports. Are vehicles Infantry? No. How is that ambiguous?
    inb4StormravenDreads.
    Page 51. "Except for the rules detailed in this section, these units follow the same rules as infantry".

    Vehicles are listed in the paragraph, but the rules are in a different section.
    Last edited by Ninja Chocobo; 2011-11-21 at 08:10 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I see D-Cannons get thrown around every now and then. They are portable vortex holes after all and cause Pinning. Other than that, Vibrocannons and Shadow Weavers have AP-.
    True, but at 30 points, I'd think shadow weavers would still be pretty effective against lightly armoured infantry. Say, nids or guard.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Chocobo View Post
    Page 51. "Except for the rules detailed in this section, these units follow the same rules as infantry".
    Huh? Wha... lol.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Yes, it has a 12" range, but it has Aerial Assault, which means if it comes on from Reserve, and your opponent is in your face Assaulting you (because you used two Solar Pulses and Assault kills Necrons), the Doom Scythe - or 3, because you're like that - rolls up and wipes the board clean. You win. GG Ward. GG.
    Doesnt aerial assult also mean that it can deepstrike down, and then make a nice slice though the opponents army?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    No- it just grants the ability to fire all weapons while at cruising speed.

    However, both the Night Scythe and the Doom Scythe come with Deep Strike built in.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Cheesgear, you overlooked some special abilities for Wraiths, including one that I think has the possibility of an unholy combination with a C'tan's Time's Arrow.

    First ability: Particle Casters, giving them a S6 pistol
    Second ability: Transdimensional Beamer. It's only got a range of 12" and it's a Heavy weapon, but the target has to make a Strength check or get removed from the table. No armor saves, no multiple wounds, no FNP.

    Third ability (which is the combo): Whip Tail. Any model in base contact with the Wraith has Initiative 1.

    So Wraith and the C'tan charge the enemy unit. He has Initiative 1. Before combat starts, he has to make the check or die.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    As i recall, with Psybolt ammo assult cannons gives the best change of destroying heavy armor targets, but Auto cannons just have a superior range, and are as i recall also twin-linked, against anything but armor 14 those will proberly serve you better.
    Mmm, makes sense, aye.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    If people in your metagame like AV 14 vehicles, then the Vindicare might be a fun choice for you ( gogo 4d6 on armor penetration rolls, with rending )
    It would appeal to my laziness, too. Just a single infantry-sized model to bring up the points that much?

    The problem I see with Vindicares is that they seem to pretty much rely on one getting the first turn. The Vindicare pretty much must be deployed with vision on the enemy to be useful, which means the enemy also has vision on him, and he's not all that difficult to kill...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    So, as promised, two and a half weeks of play-testing. I can finally say that I'm pretty much done with ironing out the Necron Codex. Winterwind's Guide covers a lot. But I feel that he's wrong on a few points - see if you can spot the differences. The below is also...Competitive.
    Yay! Quite a fascinating read. Commenting on a few things that stood out to me below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Phaeron: Relentless is good for when you want to shoot Rapid Fire or Heavy weapons and then Assault afterwards. Necrons don't want to Assault. Don't waste points.
    The other thing it allows you is move and still make use of the 24" range of your weapons, which I think is much more the point of it. It increases the effective range of your troops, and it allows you to keep moving away from those units that, as you yourself point out, may want to get into Assault, while still shooting at them.

    Also, if your shooting brings the enemy unit down enough for your Necrons to destroy it completely in Assault without taking significant losses, why not Assault to get rid of it completely? Just because you generally don't want to end up in close combat doesn't mean it's a dogma that one may not stray from ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Storm: Soft Anti-Tank with 12" range for free. Not bad. Lightning Field; Assault Defense!? Pretty good. S8, AP5 will stall Dark Eldar. Ether Crystal; Deep Strike Defense!? Get as many as you can! Stops stuff from Melta-ing your tanks. Stops Vanguard from dropping your unit, etc. Close 2nd or 3rd best Cryptek.
    ...how does it stop stuff from Melta-ing your tanks or Vanguard dropping your unit? It's a mere 1d6 hits with AP5, which means you can consider yourself lucky if it drops a single Marine. That doesn't sound like "stops people" as much as "gets ignored by people" to me...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Lychguards: For 200 points they need to be as good as Hammernators and/or Sanguinary Guard. They aren't. Sure, you're giving them Dispersion Shields everytime (add a Royal Court Lord with a Warscythe), but, a 3+/4++ save is not the same as 2+/3++, and it really will make a difference.
    3+/4++ is not the same as 2+/3++, true, but 3+/4++ with a 5+ ward save actually pretty much is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Night Scythes: It's not Open-Topped which is already a plus. And the Twin-Linked Tesla Destructor is basically an Autocannon Dread that can get more hits for 100 points. Bargain, really. You don't really even need to Transport anything (say, for Deathmarks or squatting Immortals). Yes, AP- is bad. But, Autocannon Dreads are shooting at Plaserbacks and Predators so AP doesn't mean anything. 100 points for an Autocannon Dread...
    AP- gives them a -1 on the damage roll against vehicles, though. Which is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Triarch Stalker: Not bad at all. A bit pricey for a vulnerable Dreadnought (Open-Topped Walker, really?), doesn't have Quantum Shielding so doesn't have AV13 in Assault - if even for a little while.
    Umm...
    I'm kinda perplexed. Because in the German codex... it does have Quantum Shielding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Doom Scythes: Now, I don't really believe that any particular unit 'breaks' the game, or makes any one army win 100% of the time. But Doom Scythes are incredibly, very, very good.

    "Every unit underneath the line, suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line."

    Wha-...What!? That is incredibly poor wording and rife with broken-ness.
    The way it's currently worded, means that if the 'line' clips even one model, every model in the unit takes a S10, AP1 hit. HOLY CRAP. Paladins and Tyranid Warriors are pissing themselves. All Horde armies just got put through the floor. The Death Ray hits more than one unit. And, like a Hellhound, the 'line' doesn't even need to line up with the barrel. Just pick a point, roll some dice and everything dies.

    Yes, it has a 12" range, but it has Aerial Assault, which means if it comes on from Reserve, and your opponent is in your face Assaulting you (because you used two Solar Pulses and Assault kills Necrons), the Doom Scythe - or 3, because you're like that - rolls up and wipes the board clean. You win. GG Ward. GG.

    What it should be, is
    "Every unit underneath the line, suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models underneath the line in the unit."
    ...See the difference?

    But it doesn't. The way it should be worded is like Jaws of the World Wolf or above.


    I could be wrong. But a GW Blackshirt told me this is how it works and so that's how we played it. Even if it doesn't, it's still amazingly powerful and destroys 'Death Star' units like Paladins and Tyranid Warriors in one go. If it works like that, it's like Suicide Sternguard. By the time it dies, it's already done it's thing. If it works the terribly worded way (RAW), then it's broke and needs fixing immediately.
    Again, similar to Suicide Sternguard, a lot of people haven't yet seen, or refuse to see it's value (boo! 12" range) until it's used on them.
    I play-tested the 'makes sense' way, and I play-tested the broken (RAW) way, both are very powerful.
    I know that doesn't necessarily mean much, but in the German codex, it is absolutely unambiguously worded in the non-broken way.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    The difference between a Chapter Master and a Captain is several points- and the Orbital Bombardment ability. So marines do pay extra.

    Might be better to compare the Tachyon Arrow to the Hunter Killer missile- both are one shot unlimited range weapons, but the Arrow has better Str and AP, and is available to HQ instead of vehicles.
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