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  1. - Top - End - #571
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Etcetera View Post
    I haven't a clue where you're getting these numbers from.
    I've got the figures for distribution of 3d6 rolls around. I mean, Ld 10 is easy to calculate; the average roll on 3d6 is 10.5, meaning that 10 or less is exactly as likely as 11 or more...and since 10 or less means passing for Ld 10 units, and 11 or more would mean failure, that's 50%.
    For Ld 9, there's a 12.5% chance of rolling 10 on 3d6, so add that to your 50% chance of failure for Ld 10 to get the 62.5% chance of failure on Ld 9.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Etcetera View Post
    I haven't a clue where you're getting these numbers from.
    I wasn't going to say anything if no one else did, but I must admit I found it pretty funny that you and IthilanorStPete got such dramatically different probabilities. As far as I can tell, this is what happened:

    Etcetera assumed that the question was "What are the odds of failure when you roll 3d6 and take the best 2 dice." (IE, casting psychic powers with Eldrad) The answer here would be 4/216 (or 1/54) for a Ld 10 character.

    IthilanorStPete assume that the question was "What are the odds of failure when you roll 3d6 and take the sum of them all." (IE, a regular psyker trying to cast while in the Shadow In The Warp) The answer here would be approximately 51% for Ld 10, assuming I didn't mis-count anything.

    Isn't math just lovely?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hootman View Post
    I wasn't going to say anything if no one else did, but I must admit I found it pretty funny that you and IthilanorStPete got such dramatically different probabilities. As far as I can tell, this is what happened:

    Etcetera assumed that the question was "What are the odds of failure when you roll 3d6 and take the best 2 dice." (IE, casting psychic powers with Eldrad) The answer here would be 4/216 (or 1/54) for a Ld 10 character.

    IthilanorStPete assume that the question was "What are the odds of failure when you roll 3d6 and take the sum of them all." (IE, a regular psyker trying to cast while in the Shadow In The Warp) The answer here would be approximately 51% for Ld 10, assuming I didn't mis-count anything.

    Isn't math just lovely?
    Pretty sure that's what happened, yeah. (Except that as I outlined above, it's exactly 50% chance of failure for Ld 10) I'm pretty sure the question was about Shadow in the Warp, though, since the topic of discussion was the value and reliability of GK force weapons, especially against 'nids.

  4. - Top - End - #574
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by IthilanorStPete View Post
    Pretty sure that's what happened, yeah. (Except that as I outlined above, it's exactly 50% chance of failure for Ld 10) I'm pretty sure the question was about Shadow in the Warp, though, since the topic of discussion was the value and reliability of GK force weapons, especially against 'nids.
    Well, we now have the numbers for both. And in my opinion, they underline just how useful runes of warding are.

  5. - Top - End - #575
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    ...Hey guys, just got my hands on the Grey Knights Codex. /slowbro

    So, looks like I'll be playtesting them for the next two weeks or so, seeing as how almost nobody in my meta plays them seriously. If anyone hasn't already figured out how Grey Knights work, I'm happy to do a write-up at the end of it. Otherwise, yeah. Grey Knights are fairly old by now. Hopefully everyone else knows what they're doing.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Psykout and Aegis go a long towards evening the odds or eliminating enemy unit.
    Not really, its only improved Aegis that actualy got a real chance of shutting a Eldar psyker down, and you only get those on dreadnoughs.

    As for psykout, then its only really usefull against warlocks, Farseers are generaly to well protectet on their own.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by IthilanorStPete View Post
    Ld 9 - 62.5% chance of failure
    Ld 10 - 50% chance of failure
    Isn't the 9 highter than 37,5% chance of sucess

    Quote Originally Posted by Etcetera View Post
    My rudimentry mathhammer give a 1/54 chance of a Ld 10 model failing on 3d6, and a 1/27 chance of a Ld9 model failing, but it's quite possible I'm wrong.
    That is wrong, you have above 1/54 chance of failing ld10 with 2 dices, i don't know what got wrong there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Etcetera View Post
    I haven't a clue where you're getting these numbers from.
    The 50% is right.
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  8. - Top - End - #578
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    ...Hey guys, just got my hands on the Grey Knights Codex. /slowbro [...] Hopefully everyone else knows what they're doing.
    Yeah, I know what they're doing: Psyrazorbacks and Psyriflemen. No idea how to stop that guy without buying a whole different army style, or playing the same army back at him. I'll figure it out eventually, though; maybe my new futzings with the IG will give me some ideas (even without trying to break the game).

  9. - Top - End - #579
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    That depends on whether you meant "best two out of three" or "worst two out of three".
    Last edited by Eldan; 2011-11-28 at 09:45 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    Isn't the 9 highter than 37,5% chance of sucess



    That is wrong, you have above 1/54 chance of failing ld10 with 2 dices, i don't know what got wrong there.



    The 50% is right.
    Uh, dude, we'd actually already worked that out.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    ...Hey guys, just got my hands on the Grey Knights Codex. /slowbro

    So, looks like I'll be playtesting them for the next two weeks or so, seeing as how almost nobody in my meta plays them seriously. If anyone hasn't already figured out how Grey Knights work, I'm happy to do a write-up at the end of it. Otherwise, yeah. Grey Knights are fairly old by now. Hopefully everyone else knows what they're doing.
    I play them myself, but I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on them.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Etcetera View Post
    Uh, dude, we'd actually already worked that out.
    Yeah i found out. I just clicked read last unread and then posted by the end of the page.
    Sorry.
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  13. - Top - End - #583
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hootman View Post
    Yeah, I know what they're doing: Psyrazorbacks and Psyriflemen.
    I don't know, to me, las/plas is still best variant, I have no idea why anyone would field Razorback with Psyammo, except with maybe cheapest variant.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Not really, its only improved Aegis that actualy got a real chance of shutting a Eldar psyker down, and you only get those on dreadnoughs.
    Um... I meant it as deterrent here, and all three abilities at the same time. Still, I'll take that -1, every modifier helps.

    As for psykout, then its only really usefull against warlocks, Farseers are generaly to well protectet on their own.
    Protected how?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Hey Cheese, do you have a write up of the Dark Eldar codex that you could link me to?

    Thanks
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    I don't know, to me, las/plas is still best variant, I have no idea why anyone would field Razorback with Psyammo, except with maybe cheapest variant.
    Ghosthelm grants a 3+ save against PotW, and Farseers have three wounds, as opposed to the two of most Librarians.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hootman View Post
    Yeah, I know what they're doing: Psyrazorbacks and Psyriflemen. No idea how to stop that guy without buying a whole different army style, or playing the same army back at him. I'll figure it out eventually, though; maybe my new futzings with the IG will give me some ideas (even without trying to break the game).
    Guard? Lascannons and high strength ordnance. If his strategy depends on AV11 and 12 vehicles, you should be able to wreck him.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Etcetera View Post
    Ghosthelm grants a 3+ save against PotW, and Farseers have three wounds, as opposed to the two of most Librarians.
    Are you really sure you quoted the right thing?

    Also, both of you seem to think Farseers have any protection from Psykout Grenades, while they're in fact, have none. Maybe you're thinking of Mindstrikes instead?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    Are you really sure you quoted the right thing?

    Also, both of you seem to think Farseers have any protection from Psykout Grenades, while they're in fact, have none. Maybe you're thinking of Mindstrikes instead?
    I think that's probably it.

    Just so everyone's clear, Psykout grenades drop Psykers and Daemons to Initiative 1 and come standard on pretty much everything in the codex.

    Mindstrike Missiles, on the other hand, are the things that cause anything hit by them to suffer from Perils.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    Are you really sure you quoted the right thing?
    sssshhh

    I'm sure someone mentioned PotW at some point.

    Maybe this thread.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    I think that's probably it.

    Just so everyone's clear, Psykout grenades drop Psykers and Daemons to Initiative 1 and come standard on pretty much everything in the codex.

    Mindstrike Missiles, on the other hand, are the things that cause anything hit by them to suffer from Perils.
    Yup. There are also misc wargear options on all the Inquisitors also working on psykers, albeit uncommon, and additional properties of Nemesis and Daemonbane weapons, against which psykers/daemons (including Farseers) also have no defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Etcetera View Post
    sssshhh

    I'm sure someone mentioned PotW at some point.

    Maybe this thread.
    ...I think can I agree on 'this forum'
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Have a possible game lined up this week and I was thinking of taking a guard army for a roll. I've never seriously played guard and don't own any models, so I'm borrowing from a friend (RenegadePaladin).

    This is the list i'll be using:

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    Company Command Squad - 240
    -Medi-pack, carapace armor
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    Guardsman Marbo - 65

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    -Two plasma guns
    -Chimera dedicated transport
    --Heavy flamer turret
    --Heavy flamer

    Storm Trooper Squad - 160
    -Two meltaguns
    -Chimera dedicated transport

    Veteran Squad - 210
    -Gunnery Sergeant Harker
    -Three meltaguns
    -Chimera dedicated transport
    --Heavy flamer

    Veteran Squad - 155
    -Three meltaguns
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    --Heavy flamer

    Infantry Platoon - 340
    -Platoon Command Squad
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    -Infantry Squad
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    Had another chimera and a few points left over, but swapped it out for Marbo + Harker. If sentinels were available i'd run it and two sentinels (autocannon?) instead, for more threat options but that isn't the case sadly. Open to suggestions!

    I have the stormtroopers deep striking in my head, but the mission and table layout may change that significantly. I like a good suicide unit and together they can handle a lot.

    So my real question is: I've got a big ball of AV12. Do I sit back and pepper armies with my heavy fire power and let them come to me, or aggressively take the midfield to make expedient use of the plasma and melta?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    I don't know, to me, las/plas is still best variant, I have no idea why anyone would field Razorback with Psyammo, except with maybe cheapest variant.
    I think you are forgetting about assault cannons. Having strength 7 assault cannons is very nice. Heavy bolters are a bit of a waste
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky S View Post
    I think you are forgetting about assault cannons. Having strength 7 assault cannons is very nice. Heavy bolters are a bit of a waste
    Heavy Bolters are S6, and are cheap. S7 Assault Cannon is 45 pts Psycannon, IIRC, which makes no sense if you can take Psycannons for 10-20 pts on troops. Also, it has 24" of range, and is gone after first WD damage roll, while Las/Plas is cheaper, has S7/9 shots, 48" range, AP2, and needs 2 WD results to silence.
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    smile Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    with the revival of the mega forces, what are people's opinion on the dark eldar one GW is putting out? would this be a good way of starting a dark eldar army, or, like many battle forces, does it lend its self to army stimpack status? is it worth paying the $215+tax and shipping they are asking for it?

    the boxes are here for the DA and here for the SM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    It looks worth it as far as I can tell, the megaforces are jut battleforces on steroids so it seems cost effective.

    Decisions decisions. Do I get 2 Zoanthropes to fill out my brood so I have 3, 2 Hive Guard for dat tank busting, 2 Tyrant Guard to protect my Swarmlord, Raverners to help my Trygon, and a Biovore just to be artillery. So many choices, so little money. Thoughts?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tychris1 View Post
    It looks worth it as far as I can tell, the megaforces are jut battleforces on steroids so it seems cost effective.

    Decisions decisions. Do I get 2 Zoanthropes to fill out my brood so I have 3, 2 Hive Guard for dat tank busting, 2 Tyrant Guard to protect my Swarmlord, Raverners to help my Trygon, and a Biovore just to be artillery. So many choices, so little money. Thoughts?
    What does your army so far look like.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by gabado View Post
    with the revival of the mega forces
    They wont be around for long.

    Anyway, Dark Eldar.

    1 Warrior Box. Check. You definitely want one, at least to make Trueborn out of, or to have a Scoring unit in your backline.
    20 Wyches. Double check. 2 units of Wyches to run forwards, one unit of Warriors to sit back. That's your 3 Troops, gold.

    9 Reavers. Sad face.
    5 Scourges. Double sad face. Mostly these guys get used as bit-fodder. Their sprue is excellent, and come with a bunch of weapons. Including Shardcarbines which are invaluable for making Trueborn.

    1 Venom. Fine. Although you will need more.
    1 Raider. Same problem as Venom. You need more than one if you have any at all.
    1 Ravager. Again, if you have any, you need more than one. But, Ravagers are incredibly good and this wont mess you up in the slightest. Unlike the above where I would much rather have 2 Venoms or Raiders, rather than one of each.

    Contrast with two regular-size Battleforces - which is cheaper.

    20 Warriors. Not bad. 2 units of 10, one unit of 20. Base models for Trueborn, etc, etc.
    20 Wyches. Solid.
    6 Reavers. Not great. But at this level of play you take what you can get.
    2 Raiders for your two squads of Wyches.

    What you lost?
    3 Reavers. Meh.
    Scourges. Meh. Like I said, they're mostly used for bit-fodder, and for when min-maxing players have used up all their other slots. x5 Scourges, x2 Dark Lances = 140 Points. Bargain, really. But only after you've used your other slots because Ravagers have three Dark Lances for 105. And for 5 points extra you can get Razorwings which also have 2 Dark Lances and also lots of anti-horde power.

    You traded a Venom for a second Raider. This is better. Especially considering you also have two squads of Wyches. Wyches need Raiders. This is not up for debate.

    The Ravager. A loss, certainly. But two Battleforces is also cheaper than the Megaforce. Use the savings you made to start funds to buy one normally.

    Keep in mind that the Space Marine one is basically the same; A lot of shiny toys but nothing particularly useful.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2011-11-29 at 02:05 AM.
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  28. - Top - End - #598
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    lord_khaine's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    I think that's probably it.

    Just so everyone's clear, Psykout grenades drop Psykers and Daemons to Initiative 1 and come standard on pretty much everything in the codex.

    Mindstrike Missiles, on the other hand, are the things that cause anything hit by them to suffer from Perils.
    Well, i did confuse them with Mindstrike then, but Psykout will have even less influence on a farseer.
    He is not a cc monster, he is a force multiplier, if you actualy get a chance to drop his initiative to 1, then chance are he will just say "whatever", since his 1 attack wont make much if any difference in cc anyway.

    Yup. There are also misc wargear options on all the Inquisitors also working on psykers, albeit uncommon, and additional properties of Nemesis and Daemonbane weapons, against which psykers/daemons (including Farseers) also have no defense
    Most of those wargear options require melee range, and in most cases wont make any real difference.
    As for the Nenesis and Deamonbane properties, then Farseers actualy got the best defence against them, its a funny fact that most of that stuff would work best on other GK units.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  29. - Top - End - #599
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tychris1 View Post
    It looks worth it as far as I can tell, the megaforces are jut battleforces on steroids so it seems cost effective.

    Decisions decisions. Do I get 2 Zoanthropes to fill out my brood so I have 3, 2 Hive Guard for dat tank busting, 2 Tyrant Guard to protect my Swarmlord, Raverners to help my Trygon, and a Biovore just to be artillery. So many choices, so little money. Thoughts?
    I say go for the zoanthropes. a 3++ is a hard save to crack, and with 3 models your opponent has to crack it 6 times. they'll get a lot of damage done before then.
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  30. - Top - End - #600
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    Hawkfrost000's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Provengreil View Post
    I say go for the zoanthropes. a 3++ is a hard save to crack, and with 3 models your opponent has to crack it 6 times. they'll get a lot of damage done before then.
    Or crack it 3 times with krack missies.

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