Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

[Timberwolf]

BA/GK didn't need a new transport that removes one of their weaknesses and is a horrible model, to boot.

I'm rather proud of mine, but there we go. Admittedly, I would have preferred one that looked a bit more Valkyrie like, mainly in the nose section. The Storm Pigeon does have a really ugly nose.

[userpay]

Wow... I think this is the most people I've ever seen on Vassal at once.

[Etcetera]

Wow... I think this is the most people I've ever seen on Vassal at once.

TGaPT is me and Trixie! Wave at us!

[userpay]

TGaPT is me and Trixie! Wave at us!

I would but the room seems to be locked. Would either of you happen to be interested in a quickie 500 (maybe higher if I get to working on it) after your current match?

[Lowkey Lyesmith]

If anything, Eldar deserve this. Sure I'm biased, but Eldar transports are, for the most part, not very good. BA/GK didn't need a new transport that removes one of their weaknesses and is a horrible model, to boot.

I hope you don't count Wave serpents as bad transports?

Altough I agree Eldar should have a fast transport that allows them to assult out of it.

[Etcetera]

I hope you don't count Wave serpents as bad transports?

Altough I agree Eldar should have a fast transport that allows them to assult out of it.

They're nicely survivable, but even at their cheapest they cost 100 points. Which is a lot.

[Renegade Paladin]

I'll be the first to proclaim my lack of legal knowledge, but doesn't that mean the author has permission, of a sort?

So was Damnatus. They gave permission at the outset of production and changed their minds after they were done shooting but before release.

[Silverlich]

How do Chariots work in the Daemon codex?
Does the herald become an upgrade character for whatever squad you want?
Does it become a unit with whatever the chariot is pulled by?
It says it "Loses the independent character rule".

Help please?

[Winterwind]

For what it's worth, I am genuinely looking forward to the Newb Review. My own experience with most armies barely even reaches the rank of 'Newb', so I be just as interested to know whether or not my opinions are the same as a fellow amateur, as I would to hear the 'This Is What You Should Do' version from the Tournament Veteran.

Awww, that's nice to hear. Did a lot to motivate me to write this thing down, too.

So, here we go. As I said, I've had the pleasure of playing alongside the new Necron codex in one game so far... and then had hours and hours and hours and hours of discussion about it with a friend of mine who plays Necrons and is always very, very careful to analyze all his options. So, while lacking in experience (and I don't feel nearly as qualified in Warhammer 40k as I do in Fantasy, anyway), I think I've spent a fair amount of time thinking about the new Necrons, so I figured I'd write down a summary of my thoughts to all the various unit choices, their qualities and uses. It's only the regular units, not the Special Characters (didn't feel like going into those as well).

Spoiler

Show

HQs
Overlord - there's no way around this, these are very expensive for what they do. They can be built into very decent close combat warriors - with 2+/3++ saves and 3 S7 attacks at I2, and enough Toughness to not be insta-killed by powerfists, which is great, but we are looking at about 200 points, then. Their ability to make a unit they join Relentless is awesome though - while there are only a few units that can benefit from this, the ones that do do so greatly. Stick him into a unit of 20 Warriors, and you can move around and still shoot at 24" - greatly extending the threat potential of this unit, or allowing them to slowly move away from enemy close combat troops closing in while still shooting at them from outside the critical 12" range that might allow the enemy to assault. Alternately, it greatly improves the choice of Gauss Blasters on Immortals (which would be the vastly superior weapon than Tesla Carbines if not for not being Assault - Relentless gets around this problem). Most critically though, they allow for Royal Courts. Overall, kinda expensive, but useful to the point of not being cripplingly so, and unlocking Courts makes them mandatory.(6/10, for how much Overlords contribute to the army on their own merit. 10/10 if considering they are necessary to unlock Courts.)[/B]

Destroyer Lord - A dedicated close combat HQ choice... that cannot take Phase Shifters. They are fast, so they may be able to choose their targets to some degree (and their high Toughness may make them impervious to many targets)... but even so, a close combat Independent Character, even with T6, rather sucks if it doesn't have an Invulnerable save, degrading them mostly to trying to hunt vehicles and long range fire support units - and they aren't quite fast enough to do that reliably without being intercepted. And they don't unlock a Royal Court, either. Bad choice. (3/10)

Royal Court - Now we're talking. Lords and Crypteks are not Independent Characters, so if attached to units, they function as sergeants... really strong and well equipped sergeants. Lords are the regular close combat choice, and a pretty terrifying at that - with one of those, Necron units are no longer going to be losing close combat to every Tactical squad that comes around, nor do they have to fear every walker that manages to close in. But Crypteks are the real bee's knees.

• Harbingers of Destruction stand out to me as one of the most powerful things that currently exist in all of WH40k. Solar Pulse forces the entire enemy army to fight under night rules - I don't have to tell you how devastating that can be under normal conditions, but under normal conditions you at least have the consolation that these rules hit your opponent, too. Not here. Enemy army only. And if you have two Royal Courts, you can have two of those. I said I wasn't going to comment on special characters, but I have to point out that, with Imotekh, you can guarantee that the enemy will have night fighting rules in at least three of his turns! That's potentially more than half the game!
  In addition to that, their weapon is awesome. S8 AP2, at 36", for only 35 points per model? That makes entire Royal Courts composed only of Harbingers of Destruction (plus some cheap lords as meatshields, maybe with a single Phase Shifter and one Harbinger of Eternity to deal with the harshest hits) a really scary option.
• Harbingers of Despair are, I think, the second best Cryptek-choice. The mobility they add opens up innumerable strategic options, and I'd argue there are units in this codex that pretty much require a Harbinger of Despair to work to their full potential (Lychguard, for instance). Their flamer is useful in an army otherwise lacking in flamers, and is going to wound most targets on 4+ with no armour save allowed - that's pretty awesome.
• Harbingers of Change are a nice defensive option. A Necron unit of Warriors or Immortals, standing in difficult terrain, can become nigh impossible to assault with a Harbinger of Change attached. And their weapons are good for slowing enemies down even further.
• Harbingers of Eternity are less generally useful, but if you have something that really requires you to roll well - Tachyon Arrows, Phase Shifters, Phylacteries or Orikan's The Stars Are Right roll - they are a very nice option still.
• Harbingers of the Storm are the least useful option, I think - things that come in so little numbers that the lightnings might thin their numbers down significantly are going to be too well armoured, and things sufficiently unarmoured to die to the lightnings will be too numerous. But then, nobody forces you to take these, right?

So, every single of the Royal Court choices is pure awesome, except for Harbingers of the Storm, maybe. More frequently as upgrades to units - Royal Courts on their own seem a bit too expensive and too fragile for me, though a Harbinger of Destruction court with meatshields might work quite well nonetheless. (10/10. Easily.)


ELITES
I see one problem with the Necron Elite section - it is positively teeming with units which synergize best with themselves. It's particularly obvious with Deathmarks - if you take one squad, best take three squads! - but just about every Elite entry is like that. Which poses a problem if one wants several different types of those...

Lychguard - I don't think equipping these with Warscythes would make much sense, pretty much ever. Oh, sure, it makes them better at hunting vehicles... but Necrons have superior choices for that, and against infantry, S5 is going to be enough - the 4+ Invulnerable save (plus dispersion) is going to be much more important for a dedicated close combat unit.
Lychguard are as expensive as Terminators. With T5, 3+/4++ saves and Reanimation Protocols, they are about as durable as them, too, and are armed with S5 A2 powerweapons at I2 (which is enough to have them attack before most Terminator variants). Now, Terminators aren't that great, and Lychguard suffer from a lack of mobility - Nightscythes are risky as heck, and no other transport options are available - except for porting them via Monolith or Harbinger of Despair. Even so, unlike Terminators, they will inevitably suffer at least one round of enemy fire (unless one goes the Nightscythe route and the Nightscythe is not shot down, but every opponent is going to do their best to shoot it down, so that's an unlikely option to say the least). It might work better with three Lychguard units in three Nightscythes, but then we are talking about something that completely defines your army (and also pretty much requires Monoliths/Harbingers of Despair so that the units whose Nightscythes are shot down don't become utterly useless). The biggest problem they have, though, is that in Canoptek Wraiths, Necrons have a unit that fulfills an overall similar role, much, much better. Overall, I think they are not that strong a choice, but not utterly unviable, either. (5/10)

Deathmarks - As said above, hardly ever seen a unit with this much self-synergy. They become better, the more units of them you have. They aren't that expensive, and the torrent of sniper-fire they can unleash is quite terrifying - their range though is atrocious. Their special rule of coming in when enemy reinforcements arrive will be useful only under very specific circumstances, all the more since it gives the enemy an immediate opportuntiy to shoot at them. Ultimately though, the main problem is that they aren't all that different to Immortals, who are cheaper and a Troop choice - with S5, Immortals will often have a better chance to wound, they don't have Rending, but either AP4 and Gauss effect or superior range, Assault and Tesla functionality, and they are equal in terms of durability. Which turns Deathmarks into very much of a niche unit - the way I see it, they are pretty much only there to deal with Monstrous Creatures and Terminators in armies that don't use many Immortals and have few to none Wraiths and Tesla weapons. Which is so very specific, I can't help but think it won't come up very often. They are not a bad unit per se, but quite superfluous and often overshadowed by a Troop choice. (5/10)

Praetorians - Schizophrenic. With default equipment, they have powerweapons with just a single attack, which makes them above average in close combat, but not good enough to really use them as close combat troops, and have a weapon that is strong, but short ranged and with little volume of fire, so again not good enough to use them as dedicated shooting units. With their alternate equipment, they at least have two attacks and better range with their shooting (losing the great AP that was the appeal of their initial equipment)... but they lose power weapons then, and are close combat troops with no Invulnerable save. Either equipment strikes me as being so jack-of-all-trades that they aren't really good at anything - which means they aren't good at all. For close combat, Wraiths or Lychguard are just better. For shooting, there's Tomb Blades or vehicles. (3.5/10)

C'Tan Fragment - Oh, sure, there is a lot that can deal with Monstrous Creatures... but with T7, W4 and a 4+ Invulnerable save, these ones will still be really, really difficult to get rid of for quite a few lists. All the more, since they can quite easily seek cover without being in any way impeded in their advance. And even more so if there's multiple of them. Once in close combat, they can tear most things into shreds, and some of their abilities are crazy powerful - making all terrain dangerous for all enemy models (and only those), everywhere, for a mere 35 points?! That's insanely powerful, it completely screws over armies like Tyranids or just about anything that relies on cover for its advance, and shapes the movement of the opponent. At its price, it seems perfectly strong, viable and useful to me - not an absolute must-have (though that power with the dangerous terrain makes it dang close to one), but a solid and strong choice anyhow. (7.5/10)

Triarch Stalker - It's somewhat fragile (not exceedingly so though, thanks to its shields), and its armament is pathetic, but making other weapons twin-linked is obviously useful. Even so, considering Necron BS is as high as 4, and just how expensive and underarmed it ultimately is, I am somewhat doubtful it will really be worth it. While its default weapon is neat in that in gives both a melta and a flamer (both things that aren't easy to come by for Necrons), it is very short ranged, making it difficult to apply the twin-link effect that one is ultimately buying this for, which is why I think one should probably upgrade to the Heavy Gauss instead. It's a nice addition to the army's anti-vehicle capacities, and the special effect it adds is very useful, don't get me wrong, but at these costs, I'm skeptical. (5/10)

Flayed Ones - I hear that those are, like, really bad, all over the Internet. I'm not seeing it. I mean, compare these to Khorne Berserkers. They have one WS less, lack S5 when charging, have no champion, will generally strike last and have only 4+ armour. Sounds bad? But on the other hand, consider - they have the same number of attacks, you can get 3 of them per 2 Khorne Berserkers with points to spare, and they can Infiltrate, sparing you the whole issue of "how do we get these into position?"! You get basically one WS4 S4 attack per 4 points (per 3 points when charging) - I may be wrong, but I think this is actually the record for decent quality attacks in the entire game - all other units either don't bring nearly as many attacks per point, or do so only with much inferior WS and S. So, I think they are at the very least decent close combat troops. The real issue is that with C'tan, Lychguard and (especially) Wraiths, Necrons have choices for close combat that can do better. Still, all of these suffer from varying degrees of issues with getting into position properly, which Flayed ones have less trouble with, and they can be used in massive hordes. As with the other Elite choices, I think when there are multiple units of them, it will quickly exhaust the opponent's capacities of dealing with them, especially since they have to be dealt with quickly thanks to Infiltration.(6.5/10)


Troops
To summarize it briefly right away, my opinion on Warriors vs. Immortals basically amounts to:
Warriors+Phaeron > Gauss-Immortals+Phaeron > Tesla-Immortals > Gauss-Immortals > Warriors,
but I also think the difference is pretty marginal here - a pure Warrior army is perfectly viable and by no means gimping oneself.

Warriors - Cheaper than Tactical Marines, about equally durable (thanks to Reanimation Protocols), armed with better weapons (no special weapons - their lesser price and bigger maximum squad size allows one to bring many things, vehicles included, down by mere volume of fire though), and can come with scary "sergeants" thanks to Royal Courts, I'd say those are a very solid and good choice. When used in large 20-robot units (then ideally accompanied by the Phaeron), they can actually hold their own in close combat against quite many attackers (while still not being too expensive), and a Phaeron greatly extends their effective range and allows them to either shoot and charge, or shoot while moving away, keeping out of combat.
Overall, I think Immortals are better, but the large maximum unit size is a distinct advantage of Warriors (which also means one should use this, to take advantage of large Warrior units) - 20 Warriors make much more efficient use of a Phaeron than 10 Immortals do. (7/10)

Immortals - better armoured and armed than Warriors for only 4 points. Even though 4 points is actually kinda a lot here, as it almost amounts to 1/3 of a Warrior, I still think they are overall more worth it - durability and the much stronger weapon speak for themselves.
Gauss Blasters score 2/3 of a hit at more than 12" range and 4/3 within 12", while Tesla Carbines score 1 hit on average at all ranges, which when combined with the superior AP of Gauss Blasters means you would usually prefer the Blasters... except those don't allow you to shoot the enemy while moving away from him, and while Warriors don't want to end up in close combat, at least they have their large squad size to give them a chance there - Immortals don't have even that, so it's even more imperative for them. Which means I'd probably go with the Tesla Carbines overall - if accompanied by a Phaeron though, definitely the Blasters. Even if I think a Phaeron is even better used in a Warrior unit. (7.5/10)


Fast Attack
Oddly enough, quite possibly the best section in the codex.

Canoptek Wraiths - I think I've made it clear by now - I think those are one of the best units in the codex. More to the point: Those are better than Hammernators. And every single Space Marine player of every single Space Marine variation that I've ever played against has used Hammernators.
Let's compare them side by side. They cost essentially the same (Wraiths slightly less initially, but you will want to take some Whip Coils, which about averages out to the same cost overall), Hammernators have S8, which is better against Monstrous Creatures and T4- multi-wound models, but with S6, Wraiths are still equally good against everything else (and better against vehicles, thanks to Rending), while having more attacks. The Termies have power weapons, but the Wraiths still have more attacks, plus Rending, which offsets this at least some; Termies have 2+ armour on top of the 3+ Invulnerable, but Wraiths have 2 Wounds against anything that doesn't kill them outright, as well as musical wounds. Wraiths also, essentially, always get to attack first thanks to whip coils. The most crucial part though, Wraiths are much faster and don't require a costly vehicle or a risky deep-strike to bring them into battle. They are magnificent close combat troops, and I think every Necron army should have some. (9/10)

Canoptek Scarabs - Okay, so I'm not nearly as much a fan of the new Scarabs as everyone else on the 'Net seems to be. Yes, they are death incarnate to vehicles - they are also not all that cheap and quite fragile though, kinda useless against everything but vehicles, and most crucially, being only Beasts now, they are slow. Don't get me wrong - anything that is this deadly to vehicles is a worthy inclusion to an army, I just don't think they are so incredibly great as everyone else seems to think. Still, some of them are undeniably nice to have. (7/10)

Tomb Blades - That's some great firepower right there, with top mobility, decent durability and effective range, for a very low price. Pretty much all of the options, however, are, in my humble opinion. Utterly. Retarded. Why would you pay to improve your save from 4+ to 3+, when it increases the cost of the unit by fif-freaking-ty percent?! The only option that makes sense, I think, is exchanging the Carbines for Blasters, which sort of depends on how close you want to move them to the enemy, but will likely quite often be the better choice. (8/10)

Destroyers - For the firepower increase in comparison to Tomb Blades, I just don't see doubling the price being worth it, especially when it comes at the cost of mobility. Heavy Destroyers, on the other hand, kinda add long range anti-vehicle firepower to an army otherwise lacking in that - but that's one hell of a lot of points on a really fragile chassis. I'd say, probably not utterly unviable, but risky as hell to use. (5/10)


Heavy Support
Necron vehicles are, for the most part, glass cannons - expensive, hilariously well armed, and kinda fragile. As you will see below, I'm currently of the opinion that this probably isn't going to work - they seem too fragile and too expensive to make the risk worth it, for the most part - but I may be overestimating their fragility.

Doomsday Ark - Okay, so of course, you won't move this. So we're talking about a stationary tank with a crazy powerful gun with armour 13 and Living Metal. Which, at this cost, and with the secondary armament being short-ranged (and not all that strong to begin with) is still awfully fragile. Combine this with the main gun not being twin-linked or anything, and I think this is a good investment for anyone who really, really, really likes to gamble. Everyone else, I think the risk of this thing doing nothing but eating close to 200 points is just too high. (5/10)

Annihilation Barge - Relatively cheap, very well armed (if a bit specialized against infantry hordes) and decently durable for its price, this one's great. I think it only truly makes sense if you are also using transport vehicles - otherwise enemy anti-tank weapons will take these down too quickly - but otherwise, they look like a pretty good investment. (7.5/10)

Monolith - The firepower of Monoliths never was overwhelming, now it's pretty much even worse - Flux Arcs are mounted in such a way that it's impossible for any one target to be fired at by more than one of them, and the main gun lost its AP1 in the middle of the template. It's also become much more fragile (though correspondingly cheaper). The range of the gate-weapon is painfully short, too, which combined with its slow speed makes it more of a gimmick than a real threat. On the plus side, the mobility it offers now is unparalleled, being able to pull units from across the whole board (rather than 12" like previously), and even allowing you to move in stuff from reserves without having to roll for reserve. In an army designed to take advantage of that, that opens up immeasurable strategic potential and makes a lot of other units (like Lychguard) much better than they would be otherwise. Overall, not a must-have, but very nice and useful in an army that can take advantage of it. (7/10)

Death Scythe - Honestly, I just don't see how a unit that is so short-ranged and so fragile is supposed to work out. Sure it's fast, but when it moves more than 12" it can't shoot, so that doesn't give it that much of an edge. If it's true that 6th edition, once it comes out, is going to give a better save to really fast vehicles, this thing will become much better, but as is, I think the likelihood of it being shot down immediately renders it a rather poor choice. (4/10)

Tomb Spiders - T6 W3, 3+ save, at so few points? That's a bargain. They are sort of a toolbox, offering various different advantages (repair, creating Scarabs, anti-psi - unfortunately, only anti-psi for things that target your units directly, which aren't usually the most dangerous psychic powers, sadly), and decent fighters if need be as well. I'd say if you have Scarabs and free Heavy Support slots, there is very little reason not to take some of these. (7.5/10)


Transports

Catacomb Command Barge - I honestly don't get the point. It's a marginal amount of damage potentially done to enemy troops (Trazyn would have been nice, but the way his weapon's rules are formulated, they aren't going to work, because the units hit with the Command Barge are not hit in close combat), it's a very easy way to lose your costly HQ (which would be better boosting your troops anyway), and... yeah, I don't get the point. Maybe as vehicle hunter? But even there, Necrons have other options, and it seems risky as hell. Fun fact: You can mount a Destroyer Lord into this, too, if you wish - it only specifies "character model" in its transport capacities, not the type of that model - but that's more of a pointless gimmick, too, I think. Overall, pass. (2/10)

Ghost Ark - For transporting Necron Warriors to mission objectives and providing additional protection and firepower to them. And I think it does so pretty nicely. Since it's open, it's a very nice fire platform. The repair is kinda wasted, as the unit will spend most of its time inside anyway, but even without it, it's still a pretty well protected transport that allows everyone inside to keep firing, and has a nice firepower in its own right. Also nice for Royal Councils, which can assault out of it even after movement, if they wish. (7/10)

Night Scythe - Another one of those Necron gambler units. It's one of the few ways to bring certain units into position efficiently, and it has scary firepower itself, but it's incredibly fragile, and it's special rules for what happens with the troops inside if it gets shot down make it infinitely worse a transport than it would be otherwise. Mind, if you spam a ton of other high-priority vehicles - Doomsday Barges and Death Scythes mostly - you may overload the enemy's capabilities of shooting vehicles down, allowing you to unleash some hell inmidst his armies - Night Scythes with Lychguard would be one hell of a priority target - but it is quite risky either way.
I think if one uses Night Scythes, one is also pretty much obliged to use a Monolith to avoid oneself being too screwed over if they get shot down. (5/10)

Phew. So, yeah, that would have been my humble analysis of the Necron Codex.

How do Chariots work in the Daemon codex?
Does the herald become an upgrade character for whatever squad you want?
Does it become a unit with whatever the chariot is pulled by?
It says it "Loses the independent character rule".

Help please?

"Loses the independent character rule" pretty much tells you all. Not being an Independent Character, the Herald cannot join units anymore, as that's the rule that allows character models to do so. It has to move around on its own.

[lord_khaine]

thanks a lot Winter, its really interesting to hear your oppinion on the new codex, though there is a lot i would like to discuss about it

Firstly Regarding the royal court, did you considder just taking the lords and cryptecs as they are, and then using the staffs of light to blow stuff up?
Its a S5 Ap 3 Assult 3 weapon, 10 of those are going to blow most infantery without a 2+ save to kingdom come.

As for the Destroyer lord, i do think he would be a good choice as long as you have some wraiths, for he synergise really well with them, he brings the added kick in CC, while they provide him with a screen that can keep up with him.

[Silverlich]

Spoiler

Show

Total: 986 points

HQ:533 points

Fateweaver: 333 points

Herald Of Tzeentch: 100 points
-Master of Sorcery
-Chariot of Tzeentch
-Breath of Chaos

The Masque: 100 points

Fast Attack: 48 points

Screamers x3: 48 points

Troops: 195 points

Pink Horrors x5: 100 points
-The Changeling
-Bolt of Tzeentch

Pink Horrors x5: 95 points
-Bolt of Tzeentch

Elites: 210 points

Flamers x3: 105 points

Flamers x3: 105 points

What do you guys think of this army list?

[Squark]

thanks a lot Winter, its really interesting to hear your oppinion on the new codex, though there is a lot i would like to discuss about it

Firstly Regarding the royal court, did you considder just taking the lords and cryptecs as they are, and then using the staffs of light to blow stuff up?
Its a S5 Ap 3 Assult 3 weapon, 10 of those are going to blow most infantery without a 2+ save to kingdom come.

As for the Destroyer lord, i do think he would be a good choice as long as you have some wraiths, for he synergise really well with them, he brings the added kick in CC, while they provide him with a screen that can keep up with him.

Hmm... You'd need to take at least one lord of despair (with the veil of darkness) for positioning (As anyone familliar with the old 'crons knows, the staff of light's 12 in. range is horrible, and now it is no longer a power weapon.

[Timberwolf]

Spoiler

Show

Total: 986 points

HQ:533 points

Fateweaver: 333 points

Herald Of Tzeentch: 100 points
-Master of Sorcery
-Chariot of Tzeentch
-Breath of Chaos

The Masque: 100 points

Fast Attack: 48 points

Screamers x3: 48 points

Troops: 195 points

Pink Horrors x5: 100 points
-The Changeling
-Bolt of Tzeentch

Pink Horrors x5: 95 points
-Bolt of Tzeentch

Elites: 210 points

Flamers x3: 105 points

Flamers x3: 105 points

What do you guys think of this army list?

Wellllll...

I'm no expert on Daemons, but I can see it folding very badly if someone can get into you, which I, as a not totally inexperienced player think I could do fairly easily. Over half your points are spent on HQ's, I assume that the Herald doesn't take up a F/O slot or something, because I see 3 HQ's. Fateweaver is too expensive for 1000 points, he is exactly 1/3 of it and he's fragile. Skulltaker on a Juggernaut however, is not. Plus he's ridiculously cheap. I'd say drop Fateweaver at the very least for a Greater Daemon if you really, really just want Tzentch, or even just drop him altogether and get some more units. I'd also drop the Masque and bring in Skulltaker and get some bloodletters or plaguebearers, something that can hold a charge long enough for your flamers to do something beyond die horribly to a tank. Screamers I know nothing of, I've never seen them used and that tells me something. Your pink horrors are your only troops choices, they will die horribly very early and leave you totall stuffed in 2 of the 3 game types.

I would say...

Lose Fateweaver and the Masque
Get Skulltaker and put him on a juggernaut
Get more, bigger Troops units including at least one melee oriented one
Lose the Screamers and see if you can get a Soul Grinder in somehow.

Hope that helps. Anyone who knows more about Daemons, feel free to say I'm wrong.

[Silverlich]

Spoiler

Show

Total: 994 points

HQ:333 points

Fateweaver: 333 points

Fast Attack: 48 points

Screamers x3: 48 points

Troops: 263 points

Pink Horrors x7: 134 points
-The Changeling
-Bolt of Tzeentch

Pink Horrors x7: 129 points
-Bolt of Tzeentch

Elites: 350 points

Flamers x5: 175 points

Flamers x5: 175 points

Revised Army List ^

[Squark]

Semi-Battle Report: My first game with the new Necrons! (3-way Kill-Team)

Spoiler

Show

Me
Wraith with Particle Caster and Preferred Enemy
Wraith with Whip Coil and Fleet
Wraith with Whip Coil
Wraith with Furious Charge
Wraith

Opponent 1
5 Triarch Praetorians
1 had stubborn, 1 had hit and run, and I don't know what the third had

Opponent 2
8 Plague Marines
Flamer, no special abilities (He didn't care to memorize which unit had which)

Turn order was Plague Marines, Praetorians, Wraiths

Turn 1: Plague Marines shuffle around a bit and one shoots at a Praetorian and misses. Praetorians move behind cover, while I advance my wraiths towards the plague marines

Turn 2: Plague Marines begin shooting stuff, including a wound on Pistol Wraith. The Praetorians manage to knock out 2 Plague Marines, as does one of the wraiths. Vanilla Wraith bites the dust on a failed fearless save.

Turn 3: Plague Marines manage to flame 3 Praetorians, but fail to kill any. All 5 Praetorians assault the flamer and easily kill him. My wraiths take some wounds and lost the Pistol Wraith, but manage to take down most of the plague marines

Turn 4: The remaining Plague Marines are all but wiped out, and my wraiths move to attack the Praetorians.

Turn 5: Praetorian player gets the charge after the last plague marine chickens out and runs off the board. The next 5 or so turns happen slowly, with my wraiths gradually killing off 3 of his praetorians before finally succumbing.


Overall, not a bad game, although I should have led with the Whip coil wraiths.

[Cheesegear]

Revised Army List

I like Daemons. Not the most competitive army around but still one of my favourites. I was so excited when they were released. I bought so much stuff... That was the day when I learned to buy the Codex and have it for a few days before I bought actual models.

Fateweaver: 333 points

In 1000 points, Fateweaver is a significant chunk. There's just not enough stuff if your list to draw fire away from him. He's going to get shot, and he's going to run out on you.

You take Fateweaver because he's amazing. But, you also need targets that your opponent will consider more important; A large unit of Khorne (pick your favourite, they're all good) or Slaanesh is usually the pick-of-choice.

Flamers x5: 175 points

Flamers x5: 175 points

You're better off with 3 units of 3/3/4.

Pink Horrors x7: 134 points
-The Changeling
-Bolt of Tzeentch

Yep.

Pink Horrors x7: 129 points
-Bolt of Tzeentch

No. Horrors are too expensive in 1000 points for not being able to do much.

Screamers x3: 48 points

Screamers don't do anything. They have grenades which only hit Dreads on sixes, and against vehicles they only have one attack.

Monstrous Creatures (any) have multiple attacks, hit Dreads at Weapon Skill and roll 2d6 for Armour Pen anyway.

All-Tzeentch is bad. Aside from Fateweaver and one unit of Horrors Changeling, Tzeentch doesn't really do anything that the rest of the 'dex couldn't do better.

[lord_khaine]

Hmm... You'd need to take at least one lord of despair (with the veil of darkness) for positioning (As anyone familliar with the old 'crons knows, the staff of light's 12 in. range is horrible, and now it is no longer a power weapon.

Well, i thought upgrades could allways be addet depending on what you could afford, though im sure 4 guys with abysal staffs would be hilarious against allmost anything without a AV value.

But for transport you do have a couple of options, like picking the open transport, and then cruise around looking (and shooting) down on whoever gets to close to you.

Alternatively you could get a monolith, and use the portal to get into position, though in that case it might be wise to pick a backup option for transport.

[Squark]

Well, i thought upgrades could allways be addet depending on what you could afford, though im sure 4 guys with abysal staffs would be hilarious against allmost anything without a AV value.

But for transport you do have a couple of options, like picking the open transport, and then cruise around looking (and shooting) down on whoever gets to close to you.

Alternatively you could get a monolith, and use the portal to get into position, though in that case it might be wise to pick a backup option for transport.

You can't stick a royal court into a ghost ark. At most, you can get 1 member of the royal court attached to the warriors in it (and you might be able to cram your overlord in too).

[hamishspence]

In 5E guys can get into a Dedicated Transport that was bought for another squad.

For the Ghost Ark, since Lords, Overlords and Crypteks can all get in one, a Royal Court can all get in one- as long as it's been vacated beforehand.

[banjo1985]

It's car-pooling, 40k style.

As I read through the Necron codex I'm finding it hard to substantiate why only Warriors can take Ghost Arks while everyone else has to bugger around with Night Scythes. Seems a bit arbitrary to me.

[hamishspence]

Might be that they thought the ability to bring back d3 guys would be too powerful if it was given to Immortals and the like.

[Provengreil]

Immortals - better armoured and armed than Warriors for only 4 points. Even though 4 points is actually kinda a lot here, as it almost amounts to 1/3 of a Warrior, I still think they are overall more worth it - durability and the much stronger weapon speak for themselves.
Gauss Blasters score 2/3 of a hit at more than 12" range and 4/3 within 12", while Tesla Carbines score 1 hit on average at all ranges, which when combined with the superior AP of Gauss Blasters means you would usually prefer the Blasters... except those don't allow you to shoot the enemy while moving away from him, and while Warriors don't want to end up in close combat, at least they have their large squad size to give them a chance there - Immortals don't have even that, so it's even more imperative for them. Which means I'd probably go with the Tesla Carbines overall - if accompanied by a Phaeron though, definitely the Blasters. Even if I think a Phaeron is even better used in a Warrior unit. (7.5/10)

I just wanted to chime in, I've played a game as the necrons, used tesla immortals as my troops. I was consistently getting as many or more hits than I had shots with tesla weaponry. using gauss blasters may get you more hits, but to make it really good you need a phaeron, which, as you said yourself, is probably better used with 20 warriors.

Canoptek Scarabs - Okay, so I'm not nearly as much a fan of the new Scarabs as everyone else on the 'Net seems to be. Yes, they are death incarnate to vehicles - they are also not all that cheap and quite fragile though, kinda useless against everything but vehicles, and most crucially, being only Beasts now, they are slow. Don't get me wrong - anything that is this deadly to vehicles is a worthy inclusion to an army, I just don't think they are so incredibly great as everyone else seems to think. Still, some of them are undeniably nice to have. (7/10)

beast are fleet and charge 12 inches. I've seen cavalry in action, they aren't slow unless you can't charge, so they work pretty well in an area denial capacity at the early game, and vehicular removal later on.

Doomsday Ark - Okay, so of course, you won't move this. So we're talking about a stationary tank with a crazy powerful gun with armour 13 and Living Metal. Which, at this cost, and with the secondary armament being short-ranged (and not all that strong to begin with) is still awfully fragile. Combine this with the main gun not being twin-linked or anything, and I think this is a good investment for anyone who really, really, really likes to gamble. Everyone else, I think the risk of this thing doing nothing but eating close to 200 points is just too high. (5/10)

the d-day cannon is a large blast, so think of it as a high range vindicator. seems good to me.

Death Scythe - Honestly, I just don't see how a unit that is so short-ranged and so fragile is supposed to work out. Sure it's fast, but when it moves more than 12" it can't shoot, so that doesn't give it that much of an edge. If it's true that 6th edition, once it comes out, is going to give a better save to really fast vehicles, this thing will become much better, but as is, I think the likelihood of it being shot down immediately renders it a rather poor choice. (4/10)

I think this thing is supposed to deep strike. the aerial assault allows to fire all their weapons when they do, and by the time it lands and finishes firing you should have removed most/all of anything that can effectively kill it, in theory.

Catacomb Command Barge - I honestly don't get the point. It's a marginal amount of damage potentially done to enemy troops (Trazyn would have been nice, but the way his weapon's rules are formulated, they aren't going to work, because the units hit with the Command Barge are not hit in close combat), it's a very easy way to lose your costly HQ (which would be better boosting your troops anyway), and... yeah, I don't get the point. Maybe as vehicle hunter? But even there, Necrons have other options, and it seems risky as hell. Fun fact: You can mount a Destroyer Lord into this, too, if you wish - it only specifies "character model" in its transport capacities, not the type of that model - but that's more of a pointless gimmick, too, I think. Overall, pass. (2/10)

I don't know. you can swing while going 24 inches, so...cover save, living metal, symbiotic repair, very fast movement, and quantum shielding can make this quite a good vehicle hunter, IMO. 190 points with an overlord and his warscythe or voidblade(if you prefer entropic strike), and then you have access to the real goodies, ie the royal court, while giving your opponent a deceptively tough target to shoot at. also, even if the opponent has a vehicle that moved 12 inches, you still hit on a 4.

[Squark]

I'm toying with a semi-competitive list for the new Necrons I have the core of my army (A mob of warriors with a Phaeron Overlord), but after that I'm kind of unsure as to what to take, since 2 mobs (each with an overlord) comes in at 820 points, which seems a bit much when I'm shooting for a 1000 point army.

Let's see...

Spoiler

Show

Necron Overlord (Phaeron, Resurrection Orb, Warscythe) 150 pts
Cryptek Harbinger of Destruction with Solar Pulse 55 pts
C'tan Shard with World shaper and... The lascanon power (265 pts)
20 Necron Warriors 260 pts.
10 Necron Immortals with Tesla Carbines 180 pts
10 Scarabs 150 pts

That should be 1000 pts, but as I'm away from codex at present, I can't be sure I got the cost of the Cryptek and C'tan upgrades right. Thoughts on it?

[Provengreil]

I'm toying with a semi-competitive list for the new Necrons I have the core of my army (A mob of warriors with a Phaeron Overlord), but after that I'm kind of unsure as to what to take, since 2 mobs (each with an overlord) comes in at 820 points, which seems a bit much when I'm shooting for a 1000 point army.

Let's see...

Spoiler

Show

Necron Overlord (Phaeron, Resurrection Orb, Warscythe) 150 pts
Cryptek Harbinger of Destruction with Solar Pulse 55 pts
C'tan Shard with World shaper and... The lascanon power (265 pts)
20 Necron Warriors 260 pts.
10 Necron Immortals with Tesla Carbines 180 pts
10 Scarabs 150 pts

That should be 1000 pts, but as I'm away from codex at present, I can't be sure I got the cost of the Cryptek and C'tan upgrades right. Thoughts on it?

Assuming you mean writhing worldscape, the dangerous terrain one, your math is right.

Instead of the scarabs, I would try 3 tomb blades and an annihilation barge. those are easier to get rid of than ten scarabs, but the scarabs don't do much outside of murder vehicles, and for that you've got a ton of gauss, a warscythe, a harbinger of destruction, and your C'tan, but you don't seem to have much for anti-infantry (don't overestimate your warriors for this; against infantry, it's just bolters). all the extra tesla would solve that issue fast. alternately, you could drop the barge, add 2 tomb blades, and give them shield vanes for some hard to kill bikers.

[Trixie]

You underestimate how amazing Assault Vehicle is on a Fast Skimmer. Dark Eldar get that too, but for them it's called 'Open-Topped' and it has it's drawbacks.

Well... Yes, it is nice, but I'm not sure if GK really need it. Let's see, Vendetta is 130 pts, 75 cheaper than cheapest Stormraven. You can use the saved points and put inside, say, 10 GK with psyammo and 2 psycannons, plus Inquisitor with Psycannon, too. At this point, you don't really need to assault... And if 3 psycannons is too little, you can always take MSU Purgation squad, 5 men with 4 psycannons. Who needs to assault?

On the flip side, we have Stormduck that either goes with Inquisitor/DCA, robbing you of other HQ choices, or with one of the few good GK assault units, which costs small mountain of points.

[Talkkno]

What do you guys think this list?

Spoiler

Show

1.5k points Blood Angels.

Librarian (125pts)
Shield of Sanguinius, The Sanguine Sword
Jump Pack

Sanguinary Priests (x2) - 180Points
Power Weapons, Jump Packs


Assault Squad (x10) - 235 Points
x2 Meltaguns
Sergeant: Power Fist

Assault Squad (x10) - 235 Points
x2 Meltaguns
Sergeant: Power Fist


Assault Squad (x10) - 235 Points
x2 Meltaguns
Sergeant: Power Fist

Assault Squad (x10) - 225 Points
x2 Flamers
Sergeant: Power Fist

Scout Squad (100pts)
Missile Launcher, Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks.


Vanguard Veteran Squad (165pts)
5x
Jump Packs
1,500 points.

[Trixie]

Any upgrades on Vanguards?

Also, that Scout squad seems kind of pointless. As the only target on board Turn 1, it isn't going to live for long.

[Talkkno]

Any upgrades on Vanguards?

Also, that Scout squad seems kind of pointless. As the only target on board Turn 1, it isn't going to live for long.

I could simply outflank the Scouts.

Should I dump the scout squad then and just use those points to spend on upgrades for the vanguard then?

EDIT: Opps, forgot to put that vanguard have jump packs...

[Etcetera]

Should I dump the scout squad then and just use those points to spend on upgrades for the vanguard then?

Yes.
10yes.

[Squark]

Hmm... I guess I do need more anti-horde gear. But what is available to Necrons at 150 pts?

Updated List reposted for reference

Spoiler

Show

Necron Overlord (Phaeron, Resurrection Orb, Warscythe) 150 pts
Cryptek Harbinger of Destruction with Solar Pulse 55 pts
C'tan Shard with Writhing Worldscape and... Transdimensional Thunderbolt 265 pts
20 Necron Warriors 260 pts
10 Necron Immortals with Tesla Carbines 180 pts
(150 pts left over)

EDIT: Tomb Blades with Particle Beamers, perhaps? The aforementioned Anihilation Barge and 3 Tomb blades? 3 Tomb Spiders?