40k vs The Culture

[Ricky S]

Hey everyone I was wondering who would win in a fight between the 40k factions and the Culture. I realise the Culture has highly advanced tech beyond anything in the 40k realm but then they dont have psykers do they?

So what are your thoughts?

[Grif]

Hey everyone I was wondering who would win in a fight between the 40k factions and the Culture. I realise the Culture has highly advanced tech beyond anything in the 40k realm but then they dont have psykers do they?

So what are your thoughts?

Highly unstable psykers versus the quiet efficiency of numerous GCUs and assorted warships of the Culture? I know who to place my bets on.

[Selrahc]

Culture. Culture by a landslide.

The only question would be whether the 40k factions can be enough of a threat to actually justify a war, or if they would be peacefully and secretly readjusted over time to the point where they can be integrated into the Culture.

[comicshorse]

Are we talking every faction in 40K ? Because thats a whole lot of overwhelming force for the Culture to deal with.
Plus stuff like Physkers and Magic (if we are including Chaos) that they will have no idea about. The Tyrannids are massive, the Necrons tech is vaguely in the Culture's league and the orks can rearrange reality ( a bit) if they get enough of them together.

[Shadow Lord]

The current residents of the 40K galaxy would be curbstomp'd. However, the question becomes, how large is the Tyranid Main Fleet? I mean, it came from another Galaxy, which it either completely devoured, or was chased off from. They might pose a problem to the Culture.

[Trixie]

Are we talking every faction in 40K ? Because thats a whole lot of overwhelming force for the Culture to deal with.

One Culture ship vs Segmentum Fleet = a lot of wrecked ships by an afterthought. Seriously, Culture Warship given task of ending Imperium of Man will end its mission in a month is crew is lazy.

Plus stuff like Physkers and Magic (if we are including Chaos) that they will have no idea about.

They fought far greater threats, and can adapt to this, too. If webway protects from Chaos, probably so do the pocket dimensions of Culture. If anything, though it's not Culture's way of fighting, Culture can simply clean Milky Way Galaxy of all life, calming warp and killing Chaos Gods if deemed too big of a threat.

The Tyrannids are massive, the Necrons tech is vaguely in the Culture's league and the orks can rearrange reality ( a bit) if they get enough of them together.

Tyranids vs Culture = a whole lot of ant's nests under threads of a tank. It's that level of difference.

Necrons might reach low Culture standards, true, but Culture is a lot larger and more powerful, plus, 95% of Necrons are dormant and remaining 5% are led by insane noble robots. No contest, thought Necron Empire at the height of its glory might have been one.

[Weezer]

Necrons might reach low Culture standards, true, but Culture is a lot larger and more powerful, plus, 95% of Necrons are dormant and remaining 5% are led by insane noble robots. No contest, thought Necron Empire at the height of its glory might have been one.

I agree, the only real threat that the 40k universe could pose to the Culture would be the Necron Empire and the Great Old Ones back at their heights.

Compared to the Culture any current power in the 40k-verse would be nothing more than insects.

Though saying that, the Culture doesn't like open conflict so the "war" would more likely be revealed as a SC scheme that ends up with all faith in the Emperor being destroyed and the IoM in pieces. A similar thing happened in the novel Player of Games.

[Ricky S]

Do you think that the culuture would be able to undermine the IoM? Would it really be possible to make those trillions of fanatics lose faith in the Emperor?

I dont know anything about the Culture beyond what the wiki says as I actually havent read any of their books.

[Renegade Paladin]

They don't need to undermine the Imperium; they could curbstomp it without exerting themselves. Culture against pretty much anything else in established sci-fi is nothing more or less than a rout of epic proportions. They're vastly more powerful than other universe's powers because stuff that powerful is boring to write and read about, so no one else makes the mistake of equaling them.

[Axolotl]

Do you think that the culuture would be able to undermine the IoM? Would it really be possible to make those trillions of fanatics lose faith in the Emperor?

Yes, it might take a while but it's easily within the Cultures capability.

[Grif]

Yes, it might take a while but it's easily within the Cultures capability.

GCUs tend to take the long view, since they're practically immortal after all. It might take centuries, even millenia. But that's what they'll do if they think it will end in less bloodshed on both sides.

[Ricky S]

GCUs tend to take the long view, since they're practically immortal after all. It might take centuries, even millenia. But that's what they'll do if they think it will end in less bloodshed on both sides.

So if they do this what actually happens to the citizens? Are they subsumed, brainwashed or enlightened?

Considering that the culture has everything at their disposal and basically have an excessive life (immortality, orgies, drug dispensers) wouldn't they be ravaged by slaanesh? Isn't this essentially what happened to the Eldar?

[dgnslyr]

You see, the 40k-verse has very high background Grimdark radiation, which means that just about every story has a bad ending. The Culture-verse isn't subject to anywhere near as much Grimdark radiation, so people can live long, happy, excessive lives without demons coming out of humanity's nightmares to consume their souls. this is also why sticking the Gurran Lagann crew in 40k-verse would be interesting, because the most potent known source of Noblebright would collide with the most potent known source of Grimdark

[Lamech]

Hmm...I don't know if the Culture has a ton of effective ways to deal with deamons hiding in the warp, but barring things going "Haha we aren't physical and don't care about physics" it will be a curb stomp.

[Luzahn]

I am a bit worried. This arrangement actually has me supporting Chaos...

However, doesn't Chaos lie completely outside of the Culture's emotional range? Surely that must carry the potential to destabilize them.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Hmm...I don't know if the Culture has a ton of effective ways to deal with deamons hiding in the warp, but barring things going "Haha we aren't physical and don't care about physics" it will be a curb stomp.

I mean, isn't that a good question? How can any physical-based force really cope with the Eye of Terror? Or, for that matter, the influence of Chaos Gods on the biologicals of the Culture. I mean, Slaanesh was born from the excesses of a society free of any restrictions.

I haven't read any of The Culture (but I did read the Wikipedia page), but this sort of attack seems like it would be particularly pernicious in such a "free" society.

[Luzahn]

I suppose, to the Culture, the Chaos gods would be more akin to Eldritch Horrors than anything else. Utterly alien mentality.

[Selrahc]

What are the Chaos gods possibly going to offer the citizens of the culture? All their usual lures about vengeance, power, comfort, immortality, wealth, knowledge... all fairly meaningless compared to the infinite luxury enjoyed by every citizen of the culture. And as for the minds... they already have the ability to custom make paradises where they change laws of physics at will. I can't see Tzeentch or Khorne making a better offer.

Parse it out for me. Why would any citizen from the culture see Chaos as a reasonable lure? Why in enough numbers to be a problem?

The passive effects of living in a Chaos filled universe, insanity and mutation, are things that the Culture is very attentive for, and the medical solutions are highly developed.

And with the Culture essentially already living aboard billions of "Craftworlds", there isn't really any possibility of a devastating warp event crippling a key world.

[Coidzor]

^: Seems like Slaanesh, if he were feeling particularly lucid that day, could start to push and suggest to a fair few of them to more fully embrace the hedonism potential before them.

...Not that it matters, since the meatbags are all irrelevant...



Hmm, I wonder what chaos god it is that The Culture's inherent nature feeds? Aside from the general, monolithic quasi-stagnancy, I'd go with Tzeentch.

Though none of their meatbags are trusted with anything as important as research since all of the research that could've been done by meatbags is done by AI, so unless chaos can affect AIs, not much chance of really getting a foothold with the pursuit of knowledge angle.

And I think the C'tan are the ones that are more adept at manipulating AIs and machines, but they're physical entities, so they can be taken out by the culture directly so less chance of malarkey that way.

Orks may give them pause long enough for a couple of ships to become looted, but I don't think even The Culture is capable of "fixing" them, so they'd either hunt them to extinction or the meatbags would get a new form of diversion in the form of ork culling/hunting after they got wrecked.

Edit: Tau get eaten up in a snap even with their racism, a significant portion of the IoM would as well, Eldar are probably far too racist except maybe the luddite exodites...

I mean, isn't that a good question? How can any physical-based force really cope with the Eye of Terror? Or, for that matter, the influence of Chaos Gods on the biologicals of the Culture. I mean, Slaanesh was born from the excesses of a society free of any restrictions.

Aside from being mutated or potentially randomly unmade, most of the things that are incarnate in the eye of terror will succumb to sufficient dakka, Eldar homeworlds included, won't they? How else do those crusades launched by the Imperium do anything other than waste manpower pointlessly? (Though, to be sure, they do that too, but I'm pretty sure they rack up some manner of killcount, or else the Werewolf Space Marines wouldn't keep going in and out of it, as they'd get bored of not getting kills.)

As far as destroying the eye of terror or fixing the violation of physics it represents... If anything could without being written explicitly to do so, The Culture would be it.

[Fan]

^: Seems like Slaanesh, if he were feeling particularly lucid that day, could start to push and suggest to a fair few of them to more fully embrace the hedonism potential before them.

...Not that it matters, since the meatbags are all irrelevant...



Hmm, I wonder what chaos god it is that The Culture's inherent nature feeds? Aside from the general, monolithic quasi-stagnancy, I'd go with Tzeentch.

Though none of their meatbags are trusted with anything as important as research since all of the research that could've been done by meatbags is done by AI, so unless chaos can affect AIs, not much chance of really getting a foothold with the pursuit of knowledge angle.

And I think the C'tan are the ones that are more adept at manipulating AIs and machines, but they're physical entities, so they can be taken out by the culture directly so less chance of malarkey that way.

Orks may give them pause long enough for a couple of ships to become looted, but I don't think even The Culture is capable of "fixing" them, so they'd either hunt them to extinction or the meatbags would get a new form of diversion in the form of ork culling/hunting after they got wrecked.

Edit: Tau get eaten up in a snap even with their racism, a significant portion of the IoM would as well, Eldar are probably far too racist except maybe the luddite exodites...



Aside from being mutated or potentially randomly unmade, most of the things that are incarnate in the eye of terror will succumb to sufficient dakka, Eldar homeworlds included, won't they? How else do those crusades launched by the Imperium do anything other than waste manpower pointlessly? (Though, to be sure, they do that too, but I'm pretty sure they rack up some manner of killcount, or else the Werewolf Space Marines wouldn't keep going in and out of it, as they'd get bored of not getting kills.)

As far as destroying the eye of terror or fixing the violation of physics it represents... If anything could without being written explicitly to do so, The Culture would be it.

Well, considering they regularly infest machines, and there are actually "Data Daemons" present in the book "Dark Adeptus".. I'm pretty sure Chaos can in fact, infest machines.

Though I'd hazard that Necrons would really be the biggest threat here. Being essentially impossible to kill permanently.

[hamishspence]

It's worth remembering that at least some Necrons (Orikan the Diviner in particular) make use of time travel.

There's the "celestial orrery" which can be used to make any star in the galaxy go supernova.

The C'tan themselves, before being enslaved by the Necrons "unleashed forces beyond comprehension. Planets were razed, suns extinguished and whole systems devoured by black holes called into being by the reality warping powers of the star gods"

As to mastery of technology- the Crypteks are pretty well up there:

"They are masters of dimensional dissonance, singularity manipulation, atomic transmutation, elemental transmogrification and countless other reason defying technologies"

"With a mere gesture of his staff, a Cryptek can bring the ground to writhing and hungry life beneath the enemy's feet, set the very air ablaze, summon clouds of soul-sapping darkness or call down eldritch bolts of living lightning. These are the weapons of gods, and only gods would think to stand against them"

And while the Necrons have lost many of their Tomb Worlds during the long sleep, the number that remain is enough that, united, the Necrons can defeat the other factions of 40K:

"Only one hope can now preserve the other races from the Necrons' implacable advance, from the endless legions of silent and deathless warriors rising from long-forgotten tombs. If the Necrons can be prevented from waking to their full glory, if the scattered Tomb Worlds can be prevented from unifying, there is a chance of survival. If not, the great powers of the galaxy will surely fall, and the Necrons will rule supreme for eternity."

All these things suggest that, at least at the maximum strength they can muster, the Necrons are a threat even to high-tech races like the Culture.

[Selrahc]

^: Seems like Slaanesh, if he were feeling particularly lucid that day, could start to push and suggest to a fair few of them to more fully embrace the hedonism potential before them.

Except how? The culture already allows unlimited pursuit of hedonism with full body modification, designer drugs and everything else. "And you need to worship and provide sacrifices for Slaanesh" does not seem like an attractive add on package.

[Fan]

Well it's more that they'd be feeding him already with that.

Essentially it's an already existing gateway.

[Coidzor]

Except how? The culture already allows unlimited pursuit of hedonism with full body modification, designer drugs and everything else. "And you need to worship and provide sacrifices for Slaanesh" does not seem like an attractive add on package.

Well, I imagine it frowns on human sacrifice, and suddenly having the desire for those tendencies awoken from the depths of the wretched place in the human genome/mind where we get rapists, child molesters, and serial killers could provide a foothold for slaanesh to get them to start believing all kinds of deliciously hedonistic things about the things they're not allowed to do.

Or has The Culture completely wiped that possibility out at the genetic and epigenetic level from all of its meatbags rather than mostly relying on social engineering?

[Axolotl]

Or has The Culture completely wiped that possibility out at the genetic and epigenetic level from all of its meatbags rather than mostly relying on social engineering?

If it is genetic then yes, the Culture can and has edited it out.

I also want to point out that in 40K Daemons aren't non-physical, or at least it's well established that a plasma canno is a more than adequate solution to the majority of them. Personally given the power of the minds I'd give the Chaos Gods 5 years at most before the Culture figures out a way of eliminating them.

[Fan]

I unno. It's not possible to eliminate them without eliminating Hope, Love, the concept of family, honor, and friendship.

Those are some of the things that fuel their existence.

The only way to kill them would be to kill every sentient thing in the galaxy, from the smallest kitten to the largest tyranid bio organism.

[Axolotl]

I unno. It's not possible to eliminate them without eliminating Hope, Love, the concept of family, honor, and friendship.

Not really the Chaos Gods are caused by those emotions rather than the other way around, destroying or sealing away the Chaos Gods wouldn't affect the emotions themselves. I'm not certain how you could do it but then again I can't create a 12-dimensional in my head so I'm sure the Culture has better ideas than I would.

[Fan]

Not really the Chaos Gods are caused by those emotions rather than the other way around, destroying or sealing away the Chaos Gods wouldn't affect the emotions themselves. I'm not certain how you could do it but then again I can't create a 12-dimensional in my head so I'm sure the Culture has better ideas than I would.

No, no, no, no.

I'm saying that BECAUSE they're caused by those.

You CAN'T Kill them without FIRST killing those concepts.

[Ricky S]

But would the culture want to wipe out every sentient race just to get rid of the chaos gods? I thought the culture was basically peaceful. Slaanesh doesnt have to offer them a choice simply by being in the presence of chaos you can become tainted. Which is why they kill any guardsman that is exposed to chaos and mind wipe any marines that are.

On another note chaos can infect machines. I remember reading a story about a landraider which was posessed by chaos and killed a whole bunch of crew members from a ship when they tried to exorcise it.

[kamikasei]

The Chaos Gods didn't always exist, right? IIRC Slaanesh at least came to be through some action of the Eldar. If once the 40k universe contained lust and excess without a Slaanesh to accompany them, why shouldn't it be possible to somehow destroy or dissapate Slaanesh without removing all capacity for hir corresponding emotions?