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    Default "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

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    Dance, little puppets, dance.

    The Machiavellian

    There are people who can get under someone else's skin; not literally, but in the sense that they just, out of a sort of instinct, know what makes them tick.

    And therefor, they know all the best ways to bend the minds of others to their whims. Strangely enough, there are those who have this gift who do not follow the simple, easy life of a charlatan, using their skill to make people obey their every whim; instead, they take a rather more... creative approach.

    It is rather disconcerting to meet someone whose interest in your mind is as an artist...

    MAKING A MACHIAVELLIAN
    A Machiavellian is a consummate manipulator; while they may be less useful in combat, they are almost unstoppable if given a little bit of time to mess with someone's head.

    Abilities: A Machiavellian favors Wisdom and Charisma, as it only makes sense that empathy and force of personality are their strong suits.

    Races: Any race can foster a Machiavellian; however, it is far more common to find them among races with a strong social tendency, such as Kobolds, Changelings, and Humans.

    Alignment: Any, though most are decidedly Lawful; they support having a structure they can tweak.

    Starting Gold: Same as Rogue.

    Starting Age: Same as Barbarian.

    Class Skills The Machiavellian's Class Skills (And associated ability scores) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (History, Local, Nobility and Royalty, Religion), Listen (Wis), Sense Motive (Wisdom), Speak Language (-), and Spot (Wis).

    Skill Points per Level: 4+Int
    Skill Points at 1st Level: 4*(4+int)

    HD: d6

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Class Features|Unique Behaviors per Day|Unique Triggers per Day|Requests per Day
    1|+0|+0|+0|+2|Reprogram (1 Behavior, 1 Trigger), Scathing Wit 1d6|1|1|-
    2|+1|+0|+0|+3|Psychoanalyze, Toy with Emotions (+1)|2|2|-
    3|+1|+1|+1|+3|Reasonable Request (Entice Gift), Scathing Wit 2d6|3|2|1
    4|+2|+1|+1|+4|Soothing Words|4|3|1
    5|+2|+1|+1|+4|Reprogram (2 Behaviors, 1 Trigger), Scathing Wit 3d6|4|3|1
    6|+3|+2|+2|+5|Devoted Assistant, Spot the Audience|5|4|1
    7|+3|+2|+2|+5|Toy with Emotions (+2), Scathing Wit 4d6|6|4|2
    8|+4|+2|+2|+6|Reasonable Request (Death Urge)|7|5|2
    9|+4|+3|+3|+6|Reprogram (3 Behaviors, 2 Triggers), Scathing Wit 5d6|7|5|2
    10|+5|+3|+3|+7|Soothing Wit (Inspiration)|8|6|2
    11|+5|+3|+3|+7|Contacts Everywhere, Scathing Wit 6d6|9|6|3
    12|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8|Reasonable Request (Morality Undone), Toy with Emotions (+3)|10|7|3
    13|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8|Reprogram (4 Behaviors, 2 Triggers), Scathing Wit 7d6|10|7|3
    14|+7/2|+4|+4|+9|All Their Own Doing|11|8|3
    15|+7/+2|+5|+5|+9|Fine-Tuned Mind (Immunity), Scathing Wit 8d6|12|8|4
    16|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10|Reasonable Request (Dominate Monster)|13|9|4
    17|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10|Reprogram (5 Behaviors, 3 Triggers), Toy with Emotions (+4), Scathing Wit 9d6|13|9|4
    18|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|You have Served your Purpose|14|10|4
    19|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|Fine-Tuned Mind (Reflection), Scathing Wit 10d6|15|10|5
    20|+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|Reasonable Request (Programmed Amnesia)|16|11|5[/table]

    Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A Machiavellian is proficient in all simple weapons and light armor.

    Reprogram (Ex): A Machiavellian is a manipulator. A really good manipulator. So good at manipulating, in fact, that it would boggle the mind.

    A Machiavellian may begin to speak to anyone who they are aware of who are capable of hearing them; when they do this, they are able to manipulate another creature's behavior by simply using their voice and a careful manipulation of pitch. Doing so takes 10 minutes -1 for every two Machiavellian levels they have (minimum 1 minute).

    Once their monologue is complete, their target must make a Will save against a DC of 10+1/2 Machiavellian level+their Charisma modifier; if they fail, the Machiavellian may implant a Behavior. However, these Behaviors cannot exist in a vacuum; they must be triggered by a trigger, which is specified by the Machiavellian while instilling the behavior.

    For the duration of this effect, the target will, upon encountering the trigger, perform the behavior to the best of their abilities; alternatively, the Machiavellian can trigger the behaviors of any target within 60ft as a move action. This effect lasts 1 day/Machiavellian level.

    At 5th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the Machiavellian may instill an additional Behavior while using this ability; they choose the order in which the Behaviors are undertaken when implanting the Behaviors.

    At 9th and 17th levels, the Machiavellian may include an additional trigger while using this ability; they may combine triggers in any combination they imagine; as long as each instilled trigger only is used once in the chain; they could possibly have two behaviors require that two triggers occur, and then have a third behavior contingent on only one of the triggers.

    A creature under the effects of this class ability cannot be targeted by this class feature until the duration has expired; a creature's mind can only stand so much warping before it ignores any attempts to change it. Any creature that manages to succeed on its save is immune to this ability for the next 24 hours.

    A willing creature automatically fails their save.

    A Machiavellian begins play knowing how to imprint 1 behavior and 1 trigger, and gains knowledge of more as indicated on the table above. At 4th level and every 2 levels thereafter, a Machiavellian may replace one behavior and one trigger. Each day, they may exchange any number of triggers and behaviors that they want for any others that they might want, a process that takes 1 hour as the Machiavellian has to practice the necessary inflections and subtle physical cues that are inherent in this kind of mental fiddling.

    This is a Language-Dependent Compulsion effect that does not function on any creature that has an Intelligence modifier of 2 or lower. In addition, do to the differences in mentalities, creatures with a different type than the Machiavellian gain a +4 to their saving throw against this ability.

    Scathing Wit (Ex): In the hands of a talented Machiavellian, words can prove to be just as painful as sticks or stones. Starting at 1st level, as an attack action, a Machiavellian can make a Ranged Touch attack against any opponent within 25 ft. + 5 ft/2 levels. If successful, the target takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage plus an additional 1d6 points of damage at 3rd level and every odd level afterwards as the Machiavellianís words cause the opponent to all but accept defeat. If the target had taken lethal damage within the past round, this damage is lethal instead.

    Starting at 7th level, a Machiavellian can use his words to hinder foes instead of or in addition to weakening their will to continue. Whenever the Machiavellian makes a successful attack using this ability, they may reduce the number of dice in damage by any amount (to a minimum of 0d6). For 1 round, the target takes a penalty of equal size to their attack rolls, skill checks, saving throws, or AC (Machiavellianís choice).

    This ability is a language-dependant that only affects creatures with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher.

    Psychoanalyze (Su): Their ability to ferret out thoughts is almost uncanny; it's as if they can read minds...

    At 2nd level, a Machiavellian gains the ability to use Detect Thoughts at will as a Supernatural ability; the DC is Wisdom based.

    Any creature they are using Reprogram on is treated as being within range of their Detect Thoughts supernatural ability; while they are using that class feature, they may use Detect Thoughts as a free action, but it only affects the creature being Reprogrammed.

    Toy with Emotions (Ex): A few choice words here or there can truly ruin a friendship, or cause a rift between two hated foes to be healed up; it all depends on how you use them.

    At 2nd level, a Machiavellian may speak face to face with a creature for one minute; they must remain within 10' of that creature for the duration of that minute. The Machiavellian may then select one of the following strong emotions (all bonuses or penalties are Morale bonuses/penalties):

    Courage- With a few words of encouragement, a creature's feelings of fear are assuaged. The target of this ability gains a bonus on Will saves vs. Fear Effects equal to twice the listed bonus for this ability, and also gains the listed bonus as a bonus to attack and damage rolls.

    Despair- A few choice words cause a creature's hope to crumble; the creature must make a Will Save with a DC of 10+1/2 Machiavellian Level+Their charisma modifier, or receive a penalty to all attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, and checks equal to the listed bonus.

    Dread- A word or two can summon up the most WONDERFUL fears from the subconscious; the creatures must make successful Wisdom checks with a DC equal to 10+the Machiavellian's class level to attack or fight. If the check fails, the creature flees in panic for 1d4 rounds. If the check succeeds, the creature does not have to check again for 10 minutes. The creature also receives a penalty on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, and Will saves equal to the listed bonus.

    Hope- A choice word can bolster a depressed heart to hope again; the creature gains a bonus on saving throws, attack rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and damage rolls equal to the listed bonus.

    Rage- Nothing like mentioning a little fact you had been saving up to make someone just... lose it. The creature receives bonus to Strength and Constitution equal to twice the listed bonus, a bonus on Will saves equal to the listed bonus, and a penalty to their Armor Class equal to the listed bonus. They are compelled to fight, heedless of danger, and will begin attack anyone who slights them in even the most minor way. Subjects can attempt Will saves against a DC of 10+1/2 the Machiavellian's Class Level+Their Charisma modifier to resist the compulsion to fly off the handle.

    Love and Desire- Ah, words do bring springtime to the mind sometimes, am I correct? The creature must make a Will Save with a DC of 10+1/2 Machiavellian Level+Their charisma modifier, or fall in love/lust. If the creature "falls in love", they seek to be near a designated creature at all times if possible, and will go out of their way to try to win the designated creature's affection. A lust effect is similar, but instead of attempting to win affection, they instead seek every opportunity to be physically intimate with the designated creature.

    Calm- Sometimes, it's words that soothe the wild beast; the target creature is under a Calm Emotions effect; any creature that has a class feature that requires strong emotion must make a Will Save with a DC of 10+1/2 Machiavellian Level+Their charisma modifier to use that ability.

    All of these emotional effects last for a number of hours equal to the Machiavellian's class level, or until the creature sleeps for 8 hours, whichever comes first; normally, these effects come into play immediately after the minute of contact; however, a Machiavellian may use this ability in lieu of a behavior when using their Reprogram class feature. If they do so, they may choose to either have the emotion be undirected or have it be directed towards a person, object, or place.

    A creature under the effects of this class ability cannot be targeted by this class feature until the duration has expired; a creature's mind can only stand so much warping before it ignores any attempts to change it.

    This is a Language-Dependent Compulsion effect that does not function on any creature that has an Intelligence modifier of 2 or lower. In addition, do to the differences in mentalities, creatures with a different type than the Machiavellian gain a +4 to their saving throw against this ability.

    Soothing Words (Ex): With the right words, a Machiavellian can boost the confidence of allies, pushing them beyond their normal limits. Starting at 4th level, as a standard action, a Machiavellian can select an ally within 5 feet/level who can hear and understand him. That ally is granted 2 temporary hit points/level for up to 1 hour or until they are lost.

    Starting at 10th level, the Machiavellian can inspire a creature to overcome their own weaknesses. When an ally is targeted by this ability, they may make an additional saving throw to end (or reduce the effects of) any or all effects on their person that allowed for a saving throw (against the same DCs).

    This ability is a language-dependant effect that only affects creatures with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher. No single creature can be targeted by this ability more than once per hour (the mind can only press the body so far, after all).

    Reasonable Request (Sp): A Machiavellian is a very reasonable man, and as such, he makes very reasonable requests.

    At 3rd level, a Machiavellian gains the ability to use Entice Gift(SpC) as a spell-like ability a number of times per day as indicated by the Requests per Day column on the table above.

    At 8th level, by expending 2 uses of their Entice Gift SpL, they may use Death Wish as a Psi-like ability.

    At 12th level, by expending 3 uses of their Entice Gift SpL, they may use Morality Undone as a spell-like ability, except the alignment change is to any of the following: Good, Evil, Lawful, or Chaotic.

    At 16th level, by expending 4 uses of their Entice Gift SpL, they may use Dominate Monster as a spell-like ability.

    At 20th level, by expending 5 uses of Entice Gift, they may use Programmed Amnesia as a spell-like ability.

    Devoted Assistant (Ex): Sometimes, you need someone to stick around and help you with your chores; this man or woman fits that bill to a T.

    At 6th level, a Machiavellian gains the services of a Cohort, as if they had taken the leadership feat. This cohort may not be able to cast spells or manifest powers, and cannot gain levels in this class at any point.

    When this cohort is killed, they gain a new cohort within one week.

    Spot the Audience (Su): A Machiavellian is capable of feats of perception few others are capable of.

    At 6th level, a Machiavellian is automatically aware of any scrying taking place within 60', and may use the Reprogram class feature on the creature performing the scry.

    Contacts Everywhere (Ex): Really, you end up seeing the same faces everywhere...

    At 11th level, a Machiavellian seems to have his fingers in every single pie, as it were. They gain a number of Contacts as if they were a bard of their character level; they don't have to meet the people who are their contacts beforehand; they have simply studied that particular person's mentality enough (through captured letters, or the like) that they know how to get that person to do what they want, without having to resort to their more manipulative methods.

    At 14th level, and every 3 levels thereafter, they may replace any number of Contacts with completely new contacts.

    *Note*
    If your party is using the Contacts alternate rules already, this class feature grants a pool of Contacts separate from the normal pool of Contacts gained upon level-up.
    *Note*

    All Their Own Doing (Ex): Oftentimes, it is best when you can manipulate someone into an action that they then take credit for.

    At 14th level, any creature that is affected by the Reprogram and Toy with Emotions class features are not aware of the fact that their minds and emotions have been altered. They will, despite any evidence to the contrary, believe that what they did because of the Reprogram effect or what they felt under the Toy with Emotions effect were completely natural actions on their part.

    Fine-Tuned Mind: Once a mind has achieved a certain level of sophistication, it scoffs at lesser abilities to alter it.

    At 15th level, a Machiavellian is immune to all Mind-Affecting abilities.

    At 19th level, any Mind-Affecting ability that targets the Machiavellian changes its target to be the original spellcaster instead, and treats the Machiavellian as if they were the original spellcaster (for example, an attempt to use Mind Rape on the Machiavellian would be treated as if the Machiavellian had cast Mind Rape on the caster instead.)

    You have Served your Purpose (Su): It is truly odd, isn't it, how manipulatable the pathetic little minds of those around them are...

    At 18th level, a Machiavellian may imprint one of their Reasonable Request spell-like abilities into a creature through the use of their Reprogram class feature as if it were a behavior; if they do so, the spell-like abilities lose the mind-affecting descriptor, and they do not allow a second save. Instead, any creature making a save against a Reprogram attempt that has been altered by this ability received a +4 bonus to their Saving throw.

    Behaviors and Triggers
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    Behaviors and triggers are short, 5-word-or-less phrases that are used to manipulate a creature's interaction with the world around them. These phrases may be anything, as long as they follow the following guidelines:
    -They must be definite and clear; "Something happens" is not a valid trigger.
    -A Behavior must be a tangible alteration to a creature's behavior, and must be realistically attainable; "Attack your nearest ally" is a valid Behavior, while "Kill everyone, everywhere" and "think about cabbages" are not. In addition, a behavior may not lead to a behavior that would be obviously suicidal in most occasions, or that would force the acceptance of new orders ("Kill yourself" and "Obey the next order given to you" aren't valid behaviors, but "breathe", set to trigger when underwater, would be valid.).
    -A Trigger must be an observable, unmistakable event; "A bell tolls" is a valid trigger, whereas "A 2nd-level cleric coughs" is not.
    -They each must be a single thought; the use of "and" and "or" results in an invalid phrase.

    It is understood that there is a When in front of Triggers and a Then in front of Behaviors; they do not need to be stated within the phrase itself.


    An Example of Triggers and Behaviors
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    -Don Juan, a 3rd level Machiavellian with a definite... romantic streak sneaks into the bedroom of Lady Ann, the sister of Lord Martin, one of Don Juan's deepest foes. Upon seeing that a man has entered into her bedroom, Lady Ann points a knife at Don Juan's throat.

    Don Juan, of course, uses Reasonable Request (Entice Gift) to have her hand him the knife (she's an Aristocrat; they aren't known for great Will saves.) Now, because he doesn't want her to scream and give away his presence, he holds a knife to her throat and speaks for a minute about how he won't hurt her if she stays quiet; he is, in fact, using Toy with Emotions to instill Love; she fails the save, and he puts away the knife.

    Now, being a clever man, he has chosen "Someone says "Midnight Owls"" as a trigger, and "stab Lord Martin lethally" as a behavior; he also knows, through Gather Information checks, that the Lady Ann and Lord Martin had a little bit of a falling out recently over some trifling affair, and so it wouldn't seem too odd if she did something to get back at him.

    So Don Juan plies her with the alcohol he was carrying on him (in a romantic manner), and whispers sweet nothings in her ear for a half an hour; having instilled her with the desired behaviors, he leaves her as she is nodding off to sleep, leaving behind a slip of paper.

    The next morning, Lady Ann wakes up, slightly hung over, and notices a piece of paper, written in a flowing hand, on her bedside table. She picks it up, and looks questioningly at the words written on it.

    "Midnight Owls" she reads aloud, questioningly.

    Don Juan receives the regrettable news that Lord Martin was killed by his sister, who was then taken to a mad house. All according to plan.


    Alternate Class Features
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    All According to Plan
    Levels: 3, 8, 12, 16, 18, 20
    Replaces: Reasonable Request, You have Served your Usefulness
    Benefits: You have less of a direct influence on people, and may instead influence the world around you with your long-reaching plans.

    At 3rd level, you gain the Bardic Knowledge ability, using your Machiavellian level in place of your Bard level for all purposes; in addition, you may use this ability to Speak Authoritatively about a long-term result of any plan you have set into motion. This ability does not allow you to bring about utterly unrealistic results, and you must be able to realistically describe how the plan you began would result in the result you describe.

    The result described must be stated to take place within 1 day/level, and cannot take place within a day from the point that you specify; otherwise, you have wasted your 1/Session attempt.

    At 8th level, you gain the ability to directly benefit from your wondrous plan; once per day, you can either add your Charisma modifier to all d20 rolls and all damage you deal for 1 round (one minute out of combat), as your opponents, bungling fools that they are, stumble headfirst into clever, seemingly randomly placed, snares that are a testament to your brilliance. However, to gain any benefit from this ability, you must describe how your glorious plan affects the outcome.

    You gain an additional daily use of this ability at 12th level and every 4 levels thereafter.

    At 18th level, you gain the ability to bring about more immediate results with your ability to Speak Authoritatively; you may have your attempt take place within 6 seconds (one combat round), but you must describe something occurring to an enemy or a group of enemies (perhaps a rock slide rains down on their heads, or they just happened to be issued defective arrows, or some such skullduggery). However, you must be able to explain afterwards why such a thing occurred; this ability is an extraordinary ability, and takes a full-round action to perform.

    Supernatural Conspirator
    Levels: 6 and 11
    Replaces: Devoted Assistant
    Benefit: At 6th level, you gain the ability to use both Planar Ally and Fey Ring as spell-like abilities at-will; however, you may only call an Outsider or Fey that has a number of HD up to your class level in Machiavellian minus 2. In addition, you may only have one of the above spells active at one time, and any use of either spell-like ability immediately dispels any earlier use of either spell-like ability.

    At 11th level, you may choose for the Fey or Outsider that you summoned to arrive in a more... possessive state; they can leave their bodies and possess people, as laid out in the Book of Vile Darkness.

    ---

    So, there, a class based off of Pavlovian reflexes. Hope you enjoy and PEACH.

    Changelog:
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    -I finished up the table and the class skills.
    -A couple of Language Dependent notes were added. Some wording fixed or tweaked.
    -An overhaul of Toy with Emotions; it now actually has a definite effect, and can be used as a Behavior.
    -Added Contacts Everywhere, All Their Own Doing, Fine-Tuned Mind, and You have Served your Purpose.
    -Replaced Toy with Confidence with Scathing Wit and Soothing Words (Thanks, Realms of Chaos!), increased the number of skill points, and added the Compulsion keyword to Toy with Emotion and Reprogram. Plus, there is an example that I hope is somewhat amusing.
    -Made Triggers and Behaviors Unique per Day, as I was considering earlier.
    -Added the All According to Plan and Planar Conspirator ACFs, for Machiavellians that prefer a little bit of alteration

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    No love for Silence of the Lambs: Base Class Edition?

    You know, I'm wondering whether or not the reason I get barely any comments/views is because I like putting little quotes in the title...

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    The Tygre's Avatar

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    It's been three hours. Patience is a virtue.

    Personally, I like it. I sort of want to make a BBEG around it. Who's the kid in the picture, though?
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    Avatars by kpenguin.

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    According to this test, I am a LN Half-Orc Cleric, Lvl.2.
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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tygre View Post
    It's been three hours. Patience is a virtue.

    Personally, I like it. I sort of want to make a BBEG around it. Who's the kid in the picture, though?
    OP got his image from here. Or if you don't want to click, I'll quote the relevant part.

    This is from a movie called Joshua. Which is about a manipulative genius boy trying to rip his family apart.

    In this particular scene, he, his father and his 3 month old little sister go to the park. His father knows what he's trying to do and doesn't trust him. At one point, Joshua goes off to play on a statue (that Alice in Wonderland one...somewhere in the USA) but his father finds he took his sisters stuffed animal. Angry he calls out for Joshua, but he ignores him. Up until the point where his father goes to the statue and calls out for him again. Joshua (like a little kid) copies what his father says until the later freaks out and drags him of the statue and hits him. That in a park filled with people. "I'm sorry Joshua." he then saysdesperately. But Joshua turns around and a smile forms on his face "Nodoby will ever love you.". This gets to the father so mad he continues to beat him up until he's stopped.

    The movie itself was.....okay. Slowpaced and not focused on one character. You'd think they would film this from Joshua's point of view...or the father...but it somehow covers all characters......which makes it....bland.

    But Joshua was such a little bastard I just had to draw him.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    I love this class idea, I must say.

    Those dead levels look a bit sad, however.

    Why not put something in at 14th level that makes opponents unable to tell that their mind has been affected by a Machiavellian's abilities whether or not they succeed on their saving throws (Your Own Idea or something like that).

    At 18th level, perhaps put in the ability to use insanity (as the spell) in place of a behavior so that a duped target would simply go mad under certain situations or that they'd lose their mind after completing their other orders.

    Also, still looking for descriptions of those last two abilities.

    Edit: also, are the points granted by toy with confidence granted per day per target or per attack per target (just checking as the latter would allow for infinite healing but could still work pretty well if you limited the healing to up to 1/2 maximum hit points like a dragon shaman [which seems reasonable as you aren't actually healing wounds])

    Edit Edit: On that note, you may want to alter the damaging function of that class feature to deal nonlethal damage unless you want this guy to literally make heads and hearts explode by talking to people (rather than convincing them that they've been "injured"). While undead/constructs would be immune, they're immune to mind-affecting effects as well.

    Edit Edit Edit: Which of these abilities are/aren't mind affecting? It seems that the vast majority of them should be but it isn't written down anywhere.

    Edit x4: You forgot to put in skills.
    Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2011-11-08 at 09:50 AM.
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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Skills come later. I always put them in a bit later.

    I like the ability ideas, and the healing only to half idea; confidence can only do so much.

    And, well, Toy with Confidence should be able to manipulate their hearts into bursting; and it's per attack, by the way. Maybe the damage only works on people who have already been injured in some way?

    As of right now, Reprogram isn't Mind Affecting on purpose; "But why!" you shout.

    I made it that way because, quite frankly, Hanibal Lector wouldn't be stopped by the fact that the guy he was talking to was dead, and neither should you.

    Toy with Confidence/Emotions and Reasonable Request are Mind Affecting.

    And I would be honored if you based a villain of this...

    And as for the image, saw it, and it was perfect (however, if I could find a picture of a Warrior-Psychiatrist, I would die happy.)

    For the record, another potential image idea was a picture of Littlefinger I found.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    As of right now, Reprogram isn't Mind Affecting on purpose; "But why!" you shout.

    I made it that way because, quite frankly, Hanibal Lector wouldn't be stopped by the fact that the guy he was talking to was dead, and neither should you.
    Even if it's not mind-affecting, it still feels as though the ability should at the very least be language-dependant. As use of tones changes from language to language and culture to culture (and race to race [and creature type to creature type]), it makes far more sense to be tricking people with your words than with tricking people with "universal tones of voice" that would let a muzzled Machiavellian control the minds of others in incredibly specific ways through muffled grunts.

    While I might understand you saying that a vampire should be subject to manipulation, allowing creatures that don't have any mind in the first place like oozes, vermin, and zombies to be programmed seems silly and far above the level of Hannibal Lector or similar beings in history (at least at level 1).

    I'm not saying that controlling mindless creatures should be totally impossible, mind you, but that it seems more like something that a Feat, PrC, or higher-level class feature would grant (at least in my opinion).


    On another note, you may wish to be a bit more specific with the language of Toy With Emotions (yes, even more specific). Does making someone like or love a target basically let the PC use Charm Monster at will from level 2? Does giving a target a fear of an object actually cause the shakened (or worse) conditions? By the language of this ability, it looks like a crude fascimile for Sympathy/Antipathy could be made using this ability.

    Also, perhaps put in iterative attacks and the rest of the saving throw progressions when you put in the skills...
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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    I was rather lazy while making the table, I admit.

    Do you have better wording for Toy with Emotions? I'm looking for a weakened (as in, much much weaker) version of the Divine Inspiration SDA, where you can alter someone's emotions with ease.

    I had completely forgotten about the [Language-Dependent] tag; Of course that goes with ALL of their class abilities except for Reasonable Request (where it actually IS magic); maybe add a clause like in Tasha's Hideous Laughter to make the DC lower for other races and species...

    And a lower limit on intelligence is necessary; maybe a minimum of Int 3, with Handle Animal on their skill list?

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    All right, changes and overhauls have been made.

    I'm not really satisfied with Toy with Confidence; I would like it to be a simple and effective combat option, due to how, otherwise, all they have to defend themselves is their paltry chassis, any manipulated chumps, and Death Urge a couple times per day.

    Also, at the present, what tier is this, in your opinion? I'm aiming at Tier 3, though this might be Tier 4 (they are only really good at manipulating people.)

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    I really like the flavor of this class. Though I believe it needs more Class Skills. Autohypnosis (Wis), Concentration (Con), Gather Information (Cha), Perform(Oratory) (Cha), Sense Motive (Wis) and maybe some of the Knowledge (Int) skills that are more suited to manipulation of others, like Religion, Nobility and Royalty, History, and Local. I'd like to see some Class Features benefit from these skills.

    Perhaps the Reasonable Requests that mess with alignment should get a bonus from Knowledge (Religion). I'd also like to see a new Class Feature/Request, Crisis of Faith, which temporarily gives a penalty to the target's Will Save and disables any divine spellcasting and Class Features/etc that are contingent on alignment (though the target gets a bonus to their Save and gets an additional Save each round if they would lose any abilities).

    I also think it would be neat if the Machiavellian could make Autohypnosis checks to affect himself. Perhaps a limited ability to use Toy with Confidence and Toy with Emotions on himself, as well as a way to fake some other alignment which can only be detected by a high DC Sense Motive check.

    The healing aspect of Toy with Confidence seems to break the non-supernatural flavor of this class way too early. I'd say make it give temporary HP, that gets converted to regular HP at a 2-1 ratio if the target still has some left over after 8 hours.
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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Why don't these guys have sense motive?!?!

    Skills should be at least 4+ and use ALL Cha skills, probably most of the Wis ones too, they're pure mentalists these guys, there should be skill options!

    A knowledge or two wouldn't go amiss either. Class itself though? Pretty damned sweet idea, and it looks ok elsewhere (cursory glances only at this point).
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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    I don't have Sense Motive? What was I thinking!

    I like the ideas for the expanded skill list; I also like the class feature ideas...

    Toy with Confidence is going to be changed soon, probably into some form of ranged Sneak Attack/mental weapon attack.

    -It deals non-lethal, unless the opponent is already damaged.
    -The healing will be temporary hit points/Reserve Healing (a la the Unearthed Arcana variant.)

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    .....I love this. Seems to be balanced mechanically, and the fluff is great. Internet Todd Five, with Force of Todd Five = Awesomeness of this class.
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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Two questions, one about behaviors and one about triggers.

    A trigger must be "observable and unmistakable". Is something that is only observable and unmistakable to the subject itself permitted? (Examples: "you think about home" or "you hear your favorite song": the former is unmistakable but observable only by the subject, the latter is observable but unmistakable only by the subject.) If not, you might want to consider an upgrade at some point that allows for good old "when you remember this conversation, kill the duke".

    With behavior, my question is sort of more specific: the classic example of this sort of shenanigan in fiction is "when I snap my fingers, fall asleep". Falling asleep is a realistically attainable and tangible activity, but most people can't easily fall asleep in few moments just by choosing to do so. Is it still an acceptable triggered behavior?

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    The trigger needs to be observable and unmistakable to the subject. This is to prevent "If I'm attacked" from triggering them from 10 miles away, for example.

    As for that behavior, that would work. You could also technically give them a behavior that would force them to breath when underwater, and such.

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    This class interests me greatly. I do believe it needs 4 skill points instead of just two though. As it stands he has poor bab, few skills, and he is relatively useless when it comes to anything else but social encounters. Not saying you should make him amazing at everything, but he needs to be able to contribute when he's up against the ineveitable ooze or construct.

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Possible replacements for Toy With Confidence (still require a bit of retooling):

    Scathing Wit (Ex): In the hands of a talented Machiavellian, words can prove to be just as painful as sticks or stones. Starting at 1st level, as an attack action, a Machiavellian can make a Ranged Touch attack against any opponent within 25 ft. + 5 ft/2 levels. If successful, the target takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage plus an additional 1d6 points of damage at 3rd level and every odd level afterwards as the Machiavellianís words cause the opponent to all but accept defeat. If the target had taken lethal damage within the past round, this damage is lethal instead.

    Starting at 7th level, a Machiavellian can use his words to hinder foes instead of or in addition to weakening their will to continue. Whenever the Machiavellian makes a successful attack using this ability, they may reduce the number of dice in damage by any amount (to a minimum of 0d6). For 1 round, the target takes a penalty of equal size to their attack rolls, skill checks, saving throws, or AC (Machiavellianís choice).

    This ability is a language-dependant that only affects creatures with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher.

    Soothing Words (Ex): With the right words, a Machiavellian can boost the confidence of allies, pushing them beyond their normal limits. Starting at 4th level, as a standard action, a Machiavellian can select an ally within 5 feet/level who can hear and understand him. That ally is granted 2 temporary hit points/level for up to 1 hour or until they are lost.

    Starting at 10th level, the Machiavellian can inspire a creature to overcome their own weaknesses. When an ally is targeted by this ability, they may make an additional saving throw to end (or reduce the effects of) any or all effects on their person that allowed for a saving throw (against the same DCs).

    This ability is a language-dependant effect that only affects creatures with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher. No single creature can be targeted by this ability more than once per hour (the mind can only press the body so far, after all).


    Also, you may want to specify that obviously suicidal orders provided by programming are ignored because a) most low-level enchantment-esque effects don't allow you to make others commit suicide and b) because "Kill yourself" is technically a perfectly viable behavior choice at the moment (even at level 1) and it would make death urge at level 8 pretty darn useless.
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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    The trigger needs to be observable and unmistakable to the subject. This is to prevent "If I'm attacked" from triggering them from 10 miles away, for example.

    As for that behavior, that would work. You could also technically give them a behavior that would force them to breath when underwater, and such.
    Okay. So the example triggers would both be valid, I take it.

    Can you designate targets for the various emotions invoked by Toy With Emotions (other than Love, which explicitly allows it because it makes no sense as an undirected emotion)? This seems most significant for their uses as behavior choices, since they're the only way to impose a purely mental behavior. For example, being able to construct "Trigger: person wearing royal regalia / Behavior: Rage (at person in regalia)" would be considerably more useful than undirected rage.

    It would be very nice to have a way to trade out your old triggers or behaviors - correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like a major function of this ability is to enable Manchurian Candidate-style stunts where you lay traps and surprises to go off for your convoluted scheme, and while it's interesting to do research, find out that the duke's favorite breakfast is oat porridge, and set him up to fly into a rage the next time he tastes it, it kind of puts a damper on things if you're worrying that five levels from now you'll still be stuck with that damned porridge trigger clogging up your triggers known long after the duke has become an irrelevancy. You can pick more broadly applicable triggers, of course, but it makes for less interesting schemes.

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Uhm...

    First of all: Reasonable Request, at level 20 gives Programmed Amnesia

    Then... As I see it, Trigger-Behaviours are a form of contingent mindscrew. You could inspire yourself with the wording of the contingency spell.
    I'll like to see a list fo exemplary behaviours or just more examples.

    For the tier... I usually diverge a bit from the Tier System. This said, a really efficient diplomancer strikes Tier 3. Moreover, this class grants (more or less) Leadership as a bonus feat, has a bunch of umpredictable effects (behaviours) which, cleaverly used, may break the game.

    With a little love by feats, PrC and magic items and with careful planning this class may border Tier 2 (a ToB cohort and a "follow me" + "protect me at the best of your capabilities" routine, with a loose interpretation on what a trigger is) and possibly trying to break the game by practically enslave a couple of Tier 1 classes.

    Since customary target is Tier 3, if you want to keep there, you should work a bit on trigger-behaviour mechanics.

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    one more thing to consider may be allowing people to replace either a single behavior or a single trigger at 4th level and every even level afterwards (kind of like how a sorcerer retrains spells). Gives a bit of wiggle room if someone doesn't choose optimally.

    Also, a couple of possibly harmful behaviors...
    1) Kill yourself: as noted above, this behavior meets all prerequisites and makes death urge pretty darn useless as you can get this from level 1.
    2) Complete next order you hear: basically the "wish" of these abilities, again legal from level 1.
    3) Swear Fealty to Me: not too much of a problem until you end up with All Their Own Doing and find lawful creatures... possibly infinite duration control.

    Yeah, perhaps add that behaviors can't involve the acceptance of further orders (directly or indirectly) and won't be followed if they are obviously suicidal when triggered.

    Also, the last paragraph of All Their Own Doing talks about something not at all brought up in the mentioned abilities (nowhere does it say that you have to actively speak about what you want people to do to program them and I'd imagine that doing so would probably tip them off). Perhaps replace this last paragraph with an increase to the Sense Motive DC made to detect that your targets are under a compulsion (+5 or +10)?

    Oh, right, and most of these abilities probably qualify as language-dependant compulsion effects instead of just language-dependant effects.

    Lastly, I'm in agreement with the additional skills/skill points.
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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    one more thing to consider may be allowing people to replace either a single behavior or a single trigger at 4th level and every even level afterwards (kind of like how a sorcerer retrains spells). Gives a bit of wiggle room if someone doesn't choose optimally.
    I would incline towards something even more flexible, like "spend a certain amount of downtime practicing and retraining yourself to trade one out". Triggers and behaviors are by their nature much more situational and difficult to use than spells, and unlike spells they will tend to "age out" over the course of the narrative, not over the course of levels.

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    I like your replacements for Toy with Confidence, Realms of Chaos.

    I also agree on the skill points- just haven't gotten there yet.

    I'm also going to go ahead and apply bans on behaviors that are too broad ("kill yourself" and "follow the next order you hear" would be too broad.)

    And I will put in a note in Toy with Emotion that specifies that it can be directed; I intended it that way, anyway.

    And swapping out behaviors/triggers is a good idea, and one I shall implement.

    And examples of triggers/behaviors will be placed.

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    I'm also going to go ahead and apply bans on behaviors that are too broad ("kill yourself" and "follow the next order you hear" would be too broad.)
    The thing is that "kill yourself" isn't broad, it's just.. really kind of too powerful in this specific case. It kind of needs a specific exemption. (You could still set up suicides with behaviors like "sprint forwards", but it takes much more effort and makes for a more interesting scheme in general.)

    I'm a little torn on "follow the next order you hear", because on the one hand clearly that's a little bit broken but on the other hand I really like the idea of "see something written in green" "do what the green says" for a sleeper-agent kind of stunt (and one that could easily go haywire). You could say that the behavior must present an immediate course of action (which waiting for the next order doesn't qualify as) but it would still be pretty abusable.

    One thing that would incorporate both such options into the existing power structure would be the ability to plant Reasonable Request effects as behaviors, expending the power as normal when you implant it, so that you could use Dominate for the "green letter" stunt. You could also plant general suicide orders that way using Death Wish without requiring an ability that steps on Death Wish's toes.

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    You already can implant Reasonable Requests as behaviors; sure, it comes at 18th level, but you still can.

    Does anyone think I should put a note on Scathing Wit that would allow you to use it to qualify for PrCs as if you had the same amount of Sneak Attack dice?

    And who would like to see PrCs? I;m thinking a Xenotheurge/Machiavellian PrC that would be focused around instilling people with contingent breaches, or the like...

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Ah, I missed that. (To be honest I tend to sort of gloss over stuff above 15th level or so because, well, it's up against eighth-level spells.)

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Going once more to the 'kill yourself' question. I'd personally say that as long as the victim has actively thought about suicide before, or has experienced the depths of despair in some way, then a simple nudge in the right direction WOULD be enough. It would have to be something along the lines of 'the next time you feel you can't go on, just kill yourself'. You'd then of course have to go out of your way to ruin this person's day/week/year but it's still within remit I think.
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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    t's still unclear how the behaviours and triggers work. It's a nice idea but as it is, most behavious can only be used once as they'll have to include names or edentifying directions...

    "Attack your closest ally" is rarely going to be of great use, given the time required to set it up the effect.

    I suggest folding the Toy With Emotions ability into the behaviours [it makes sense to trigger emotions on conditions rather than specific actions at early levels], with a secondary ability to prepair highly specific actions over a longer period of time, possibly with preparation.

    Really cool class, mind

    Edit: also, as triggers are so unique in nature, it should be adjusted to "triggers per day" rather than triggers known in general, perhaps cutting the numbers slightly...
    Last edited by Mulletmanalive; 2011-11-11 at 08:46 AM.
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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Edit: also, as triggers are so unique in nature, it should be adjusted to "triggers per day" rather than triggers known in general, perhaps cutting the numbers slightly...
    +1 to that. Simplifies the whole build and makes more mechanical sense.

    Skills look much healthier now, nice choice of knowledges.

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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Edit: also, as triggers are so unique in nature, it should be adjusted to "triggers per day" rather than triggers known in general, perhaps cutting the numbers slightly...
    Maybe even go further. As you have mentioned, behaviors themselves often need to be quite specific themselves. Giving everything on a per-day basis could work. One behavior per day at 1st level with an additional one at each even level (maximum 11 per day) and one trigger per day at 1st level with an additional one every 3 levels afterwards (maximum 7 per day).
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    Default Re: "Believe me, you don't want him inside your head. " [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]

    I was assuming that the following would be solid basics, with perhaps the option to make up a couple more at higher levels on a per day basis:

    "Become homicidally angry at them"
    "Forget all fear you felt"
    "Defend them without concern"
    "Thwart their efforts"
    "Support his cause"
    "Feel great affection for them"
    "Answer his questions truthfully"
    "Lie to misdirect him"
    "Flee in intense fear"

    those are the best general purpose ones i can think of, the sort of thing that tends to come up in "mastermind" type shows anyway. Anything more specific, perhaps you get the ability to make up one unique one a day at 6th level and another one per day every 6 levels thereafter?
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