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  1. Top - End - #451
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Everything in TT is obviously shorter range than makes sense for balance reasons. What are some non-game examples of psyker ranges (eg books, non-silly fluff)? Preferably for the swarmlord or hive tyrants.

  2. Top - End - #452
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    I must point out in 40K you can always resist psychic powers with either strong willpower or tough physics depending on the power in question be it fluff or crunch. There's really no no-save powers. Main heroes shrugging off psyker attacks at their minds with their courage/discipline is a staple. And Samus has both in spades.


    This is, the chapter master of the ultramarins is not a psyker and he clearly survived the Swarmlord's psychic powers.

    As for range, that's basically a can of worms. Every psyker in the stories is pretty much an unique case in an unique situation, they never really hand out acurate ranges or anything that could provide a reliable basis, yet alone for something as unique as the Swarmlord's unique powers.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2012-01-10 at 04:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    Basically it's a technique which only cuts the things you wish it to cut, and passes through the rest.
    Got it. I don't see how it would help hitting something that is intangible, though.
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  4. Top - End - #454
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    I must point out in 40K you can always resist psychic powers with either strong willpower or tough physics depending on the power in question be it fluff or crunch. There's really no no-save powers. Main heroes shrugging off psyker attacks at their minds with their courage/discipline is a staple. And Samus has both in spades.


    This is, the chapter master of the ultramarins is not a psyker and he clearly survived the Swarmlord's psychic powers.

    As for range, that's basically a can of worms. Every psyker in the stories is pretty much an unique case in an unique situation, they never really hand out acurate ranges or anything that could provide a reliable basis, yet alone for something as unique as the Swarmlord's unique powers.
    The Chapter Master of the Ultra marines is a two millenia veteran of a thousand battles, weathered of a thousand conflicts of chaos (and thus innured via experience against psyker attacks.), a hero without compare in a realm where the blood of matyr's fuels the Imperium, with the exception of a FEW other Chapter Masters.

    Marneus Calgar is by NO MEANS even within the vague realms of human capability, the level of sheer stupid willpower in 40k far exceeds that of anything present in metroid by virtue of it being required to survive anything in the setting.

    Samus is not used to getting mind raped, and has only very rarely even interacted with beings that attack her on a psychic level, let alone with an attack that strips her soul.

    That would be an attack that would hit her totally out of left field, she has no experiance with it, and wouldn't know how to react to something that she likely didn't believe existed.

    There's also the large measure of FAITH that protects people in 40k, that violent dogma that lends them towards rejecting things with every fiber of their being, and lending them the protection of just a shred of the Emperor's own protection (which is more oft than not insufficient sadly, but that comes with the setting.) the saying "The Emperor protects" is not one simply drawn from faith as evidenced by the Sisters of Battle and their miracles they preform.

    Samus is basically a Space Marine with an assassin's dexterity. A tough opponent, but not unbeatable. Though I imagine Creed will mostly be lending some form of ranged weaponry / a rosarius to Swarmlord. The Iron halo (Ranged invulnerable save) ought to be enough especially with surpressive fire from Creed's heavy bolter for Swarm Lord to get close.
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  5. Top - End - #455
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by zingbat View Post
    Got it. I don't see how it would help hitting something that is intangible, though.
    The basic Zanmaken can harm things like ghosts. Nii no Tachi ("Second Blade") are selective variants, with Zanmaken: Nii no Tachi being considered the school's ultimate technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan View Post
    Samus is not used to getting mind raped, and has only very rarely even interacted with beings that attack her on a psychic level, let alone with an attack that strips her soul.

    That would be an attack that would hit her totally out of left field, she has no experiance with it, and wouldn't know how to react to something that she likely didn't believe existed.
    Samus knows about psychic powers. The Chozo had them, Mother Brain had them, Ridley had them, her visor can identify them, Hunters has psychics employed by every faction of the galaxy, and she may even have some herself. She's also fought ghosts.
    EDIT: http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Psionics
    Last edited by Prime32; 2012-01-10 at 07:49 PM.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Huh, well, it still doesn't seem like she's explicitly immune or resistant to them.
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  7. Top - End - #457
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan View Post
    Huh, well, it still doesn't seem like she's explicitly immune or resistant to them.
    The plot of Metroid Prime 3: Corruption suggests otherwise. Samus retains her sanity long after the other Hunters have been turned evil, despite having been exposed to larger doses of Phazon than they were.
    Plus she's fought a number of psionic enemies and has never taken mental damage.
    Last edited by Prime32; 2012-01-10 at 08:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Phazon is psychic stuff?

    As far as I understood the Chozo DNA and the Suit gave her a heartier resistance, plus previous encounters with phazon have indicated that Samus is "just special" in regards to that for plot.

    Then again, I only played up to Echos.. never owned a DS.
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  9. Top - End - #459
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Marneus Calgar is by NO MEANS even within the vague realms of human capability, the level of sheer stupid willpower in 40k far exceeds that of anything present in metroid by virtue of it being required to survive anything in the setting.
    Your average slumdog civilian or no account guardsman does not have "sheer stupid willpower". Therefore it is not "required to survive in the setting".

    Marneus Calgar is a centuries old interplanetary feudal warlord, used to fighting a myriad of foes and leading from the front against horrific opponents, with psycho-indoctrination to steel his mind against attacks. That is his claim for high willpower. Not the fact that he lives in 40k. It is not an innate trait of the setting.
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  10. Top - End - #460
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    Your average slumdog civilian or no account guardsman does not have "sheer stupid willpower". Therefore it is not "required to survive in the setting".

    Marneus Calgar is a centuries old interplanetary feudal warlord, used to fighting a myriad of foes and leading from the front against horrific opponents, with psycho-indoctrination to steel his mind against attacks. That is his claim for high willpower. Not the fact that he lives in 40k. It is not an innate trait of the setting.
    Considering the mortality rate of the slumdog civilan's or no account guardsman argueably they don't survive in the setting. Not for very long anyways.
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  11. Top - End - #461
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Metroid

    DC

    We're all in the Monster Manual somewhere. My entry is between Howler and Hydra.

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  12. Top - End - #462
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Small Correction. That's the difference in range between the 40K weapons. Samus missiles do not necessarily comply with the same range difference.
    True, if anything Samus should proberly have better range on her heavy weapons.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  13. Top - End - #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Considering the mortality rate of the slumdog civilan's or no account guardsman argueably they don't survive in the setting. Not for very long anyways.
    +1 to that. In particular because many times the no account guardsmen is a slumdog civilian that was forced into a ship and thrown against the enemy with a flashlight and paper armor. Every 40K players knows that the main IG's motto is expendable forces.

    Also +1 to that any range conversion would benefit Samus as well, if not more. It's also not very pratical in a video game to have realistic range just like in TT, but being missile-based, that should give it a pretty damn good "real" range.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2012-01-11 at 05:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    +1 vote for Samus and Dark Samus. On another note, it'd be totally awesome if someone could make a short movie for a fight or two in here.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Results are in!

    Metroid beats 40K (9-4)
    DC beats Negima (5-3)

    And now for the climatic duel you've been waiting for. Aliens vs Aliens! Metroid vs DC! Sci-fi vs Superhuman!

    22 Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid) vs 2 Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe)

    Votes due 22 January @9:00am. Please vote and debate.

    There will be a break before Battle Royale 4.
    We're all in the Monster Manual somewhere. My entry is between Howler and Hydra.

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  16. Top - End - #466
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Well, it allready feels like we had the final battle in the DC vs Negima showdown, this is a bit anticlimatic, since i dont belive Metroid has anything that can actualy hurt the DC crew.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    22 Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid) vs 2 Martian Manhunter & Doomsday (DC Universe)

    Not much of a fight :/

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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Martian Manhunter and Doomsday

    Not even a contest. Hyper beams even wouldn't do anything to Doomsday, and John can just go intangible to avoid 90% of attacks.
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  19. Top - End - #469
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Samus and Dark Samus

    because the MM would go down easily to all the flame weaponry that Samus has. Also because I don't want Samus to lose without a single vote.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Samus and Dark Samus

    because the MM would go down easily to all the flame weaponry that Samus has. Also because I don't want Samus to lose without a single vote.
    I was thinking about doing that But it's another curb stomp from overpowered characters... could we make a tourney without overpowerful beings next time? (I know we already have restrictions but still people like them got in)

  21. Top - End - #471
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    The problem is we dont have a definition of overpowered being, and its not like the DC team didnt have quite a few tough fights on their way.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    DC

    I'd guess about an eighth of the tourney competitors were operating at something like DC's level. Most other teams had bigger exploitable weaknesses, disparately powered teammates or were incapable of handling magic and other exotic attacks. Others were close but ultimately inferior. Others were mainly crippled by relative obscurity.

    DC was kind of a perfect storm, combining a ludicrously powerful being(possibly the toughest in the tourney as far as direct raw power goes), with another ludicrously powerful being who can handle almost everything that raw power alone doesn't work for. J'onns fire weakness could well have done for them though, and I think potentially Mahou *should* have won the fight in the last round due to that.

    Anyway, yeah. DC has the fight against Metroid locked down tight.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    DC

    I'd guess about an eighth of the tourney competitors were operating at something like DC's level. Most other teams had bigger exploitable weaknesses, disparately powered teammates or were incapable of handling magic and other exotic attacks. Others were close but ultimately inferior. Others were mainly crippled by relative obscurity.

    DC was kind of a perfect storm, combining a ludicrously powerful being(possibly the toughest in the tourney as far as direct raw power goes), with another ludicrously powerful being who can handle almost everything that raw power alone doesn't work for. J'onns fire weakness could well have done for them though, and I think potentially Mahou *should* have won the fight in the last round due to that.

    Anyway, yeah. DC has the fight against Metroid locked down tight.
    perhaps the level of the fight should be kept at below planet busting stage?
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Sounds good, I also suggest we switch dragon ball to its early part, where people didn't become 10x stronger after a few days and the power level is relatively sensible. Or just cut it out entirely, of course.

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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    DC

    What do you guys think of me cutting out DC for BR4. 32 universes are going to be cut anyways and DC keeps winning. its too powerful.

    Dragonball we'll set some limits too. How about up to either Freeza or Cell? and we'll allow any movies set before conclusion of cell saga.
    We're all in the Monster Manual somewhere. My entry is between Howler and Hydra.

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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Dragonball we'll set some limits too. How about up to either Freeza or Cell? and we'll allow any movies set before conclusion of cell saga.
    That's still planetbusting. Dragonball, not Dragonball Z, would be more fair.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Really, if I had a word in it I'd put the limit much lower. Not humans, but only barely superhuman characters. Nothing that can destroy a planet. Or even nothing that can level a city. Somewhere on that scale...
    I guess it'd work if we set time limits, or media limits to realize that... But that's just me.

  28. Top - End - #478
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Metroid

    Now hear me carefully out. Samus and Dark samus indeed don't really stand a chance against those two oponents in a direct fight, but if they know anything, it's fighting dirty.

    Heat beam is hot enough to burn trough rock and whatnot, so hopefully that should exploit the Martian Hunter's main weakness pretty well.

    Doomsday... Doomsday has one fatal weakness, and that's not being able to fly on his own in space. So once the martian hunter has been taken care off, this is how it goes.

    1-Explode whatever planet they're fighting on. This is Samus we're talking about, once she steps on a planet, it will go boom in a matter of hours. She'll find a way.
    2-Samus and Dark Samus escape on their ships.
    3-Doomsday certainly survived, but he now is on his own.
    4-Now unload the ship's weapons on him. Yes, he'll probably shrug it off, but that's not the purpose here. The purpose is to use the shot's kinetic force to push him trough space. Dark Samus can keep pushing him for all eternity and make sure he never sets foot in any planet again, or make a pact with the federation/space pirates to take rounds pushing him.

    So, plenty of colateral damage, Doomsday ends tecnically alive, but it's still possible for metroid to pull a victory here people!
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2012-01-16 at 11:40 AM.

  29. Top - End - #479
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Heat beam is hot enough to burn trough rock and whatnot, so hopefully that should exploit the Martian Hunter's main weakness pretty well.
    Heat isn't the weakness. Fire is the weakness.

    Doomsday... Doomsday has one fatal weakness, and that's not being able to fly on his own in space. So once the martian hunter has been taken care off, this is how it goes.
    But he has ranged attacks. Bone spikes and thunderclaps.

    1-Explode whatever planet they're fighting on. This is Samus we're talking about, once she steps on a planet, it will go boom in a matter of hours. She'll find a way.
    No. That's stupid. Fighting with the assumption that this is a metroidverse planet, with a self destruct system built into it and triggered to the destruction of a boss is not a good assumption.

    In fact throughout this, you assume that Metroid has some sort of home field advantage going on. Samus and Dark Samus get ships, they get metroid style exploding planets, Metroid organizations to ally with...

    2-Samus and Dark Samus escape on their ships.
    Why would they have their ships? That seems counter to the basic way the battles are set up.

    4-Now unload the ship's weapons on him. Yes, he'll probably shrug it off, but that's not the purpose here. The purpose is to use the shot's kinetic force to push him trough space. Dark Samus can keep pushing him for all eternity and make sure he never sets foot in any planet again, or make a pact with the federation/space pirates to take rounds pushing him.
    And then Samus dies of old age, while the aeons old Doomsday persists as a universal threat. Ultimate victory? Doomsday.
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    Default Re: Battle Royale III: Frenemy mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    Heat isn't the weakness. Fire is the weakness.
    Heat leads to fire. I'm sure she can figure something out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    But he has ranged attacks. Bone spikes and thunderclaps.
    Thunderclaps demand, you know, air. His bone spikes are rather short-ranged, and even if they can compare to the range of space ships, screw that, creating matter from nothing it's not a power from doomsday so he'll run out of "ammo".

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    No. That's stupid. Fighting with the assumption that this is a metroidverse planet, with a self destruct system built into it and triggered to the destruction of a boss is not a good assumption.
    So what's a good assumuption?
    Generic sci-fi universe:everything has self-destruct systems and/or poorly protected air vents to the main reactors.
    DC-universe: you can't take two steps whitout tripping into some ancient or high-tec device fromsome lunatic hellbent in destroying the planet. Heck, it's cannon that in the future DC Earth just exploded from all the dangerous stuff they stockpiled over the centuries!

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    In fact throughout this, you assume that Metroid has some sort of home field advantage going on. Samus and Dark Samus get ships, they get metroid style exploding planets, Metroid organizations to ally with...
    Pretty sure that any organization around would be pretty happy with a deal to get rid of Doomsday forever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    Why would they have their ships? That seems counter to the basic way the battles are set up.
    Samus can call her ship for suport in the latest games, and she takes it wherever she goes. Dark Samus can aparently corrupt whatever's at hand to create ships if not whole bases, minions and whatnot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    And then Samus dies of old age, while the aeons old Doomsday persists as a universal threat. Ultimate victory? Doomsday.
    Nah, Dark Samus still gets to spread her corruption around the galaxy!

    Hmm, what would it count if Dark Samus can corrupt Doomsday with phazon overload? That thing has taken over races, planets, machines, computer programs, you name it.

    Or more simple, what happens if Dark Samus simply pushes Apocalypse at whatever she doesn't like and rules over the rest while he rampages?
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2012-01-16 at 03:44 PM.

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