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    Default The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    The Gladiator

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    Forged in the arena, and quenched in blood. The Gladiator exists for one purpose, entertainment. The crowds may cheer and know their names, but revel when they die in battle. Many Gladiators "buy" their freedom, and wander the land, often working as mercenaries. A rare few turn their skills to the adventuring lifestyle, as it matches their old too well.

    Game rule information:
    Gladiators have the following game statistics.
    Abilities: Strength is most important for a Gladiator, due to them being in the front lines, while Constitution is a secondary concern, to bump up the Gladiator's already rather high hit points.

    Alignment:Any
    Hit Die: d12
    Starting age: As Monk
    Starting gold: As Fighter

    Class skills: The Gladiator's skills (And the ability for each skill) are: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha) and Tumble (Dex)

    Skill Points and first level: (2 + Int bonus) x 4
    Skill points at each additional level: 2 + Int bonus

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Maneuvers Known|Maneuvers readied|Stances Known

    1st|+1|+2|+2|+2|Blood of Iron, Improved Unarmed strike|3|3|1

    2nd|+2|+3|+3|+3|An ally is a weapon|3|3|1

    3rd|+3|+3|+3|+3|Diehard|4|3|2

    4th|+4|+4|+4|+4|Uncanny dodge|4|3|2

    5th|+5|+4|+4|+4|Evasion|5|3|2

    6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+5|Blood thirst, Mettle|5|4|3

    7th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+5|Strength to fight|6|4|3

    8th|+8/+3|+6|+5|+5|My strength is a shield 1/day|6|4|3

    9th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+6|Improved uncanny dodge|7|4|3

    10th|+10/+5|+7|+7|+6|Flesh of Steel|7|4|4

    11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+6|Improved evasion|8|4|4

    12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+8|Blood Hunger, Improved mettle|8|4|4

    13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+8|Sheer force|9|5|4

    14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+9|+9|Soul of the immortals|9|5|4

    15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+9|Victor of countless battles|10|5|5

    16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+10|Battlefield study|10|5+1|5

    17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+10|Never give up|10|5+1|5

    18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+11|Blood Lust|11|6+1|5

    19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+11|Call to battle|11|6+1|5

    20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+12|Death is the choice of the weak 1/day|11|6+1|5
    [/table]

    Class featuresThe following are considered class features for the Gladiator.

    Maneuvers
    The Gladiator begins with three martial maneuvers known. The Gladiator begins with two disciplines selected from the Warblade list. The Gladiator regains maneuvers as though he was a Warblade. Swapping readied maneuvers requires five minutes of mental training.

    Weapon and armour proficiencies
    The Gladiator is proficient with all simple and martial weapons plus one exotic weapon of the player's choice. The Gladiator is proficient with all light and medium armour and all shields including tower shields.

    Blood of iron (Ex)
    The Gladiator has fought in many a battle and has become use to the sensation of steel against flesh. The Gladiator gains a natural armour bonus equal to 1/2 his Gladiator class levels. Minimum +1 bonus.

    Improved Unarmed Strike
    The Gladiator gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.

    An ally is a weapon (Ex)
    The Gladiator has fought with enough people to know how best to make use of them. Any ally within 50 ft of the Gladiator gains +2 circumstance bonus to attack rolls. This is a sound and language dependent ability. This does not stack with a Marshal's bonus.

    Diehard
    The Gladiator gains Diehard as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.

    Uncanny dodge (Ex)
    As per the Barbarian class feature.

    Evasion (Ex)
    As per the Rouge ability, however the Gladiator may use evasion in medium armour, as well as when he is wearing light or no armour.

    Blood thirst (Ex)
    The Gladiator has fought enough battles to know that blood means that the enemy is close to death. And then the Gladiator revels when he is. Whenever the Gladiator slays an opponent that would grant him significant experience, 3d10 hit points are healed. The Gladiator also gains +2 morale to attack rolls against anything that can bleed.

    A note on this ability (And it's upgrades);
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    This ability is excessively easy to abuse, as many people count "significant experience" to be different things. As a rule, the minimum CR of the enemy should only be about 2 below the level of the Gladiator to be able to use this ability.

    An abusive use of this ability would be slaying a rat to heal after setting off a trap.

    A non-abusive (And awesome) use of this ability would be using Diehard to slay a bandit leader, heal above 0Hp and proceeding to slaughter the rest of the opponents saving the lives of your teamates.


    Mettle (Ex)
    At 6th level and higher, a Gladiator can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. An unconscious or sleeping Gladiator does not gain the benefit of mettle.

    Strength to fight (Ex)
    By now the Gladiator knows that simple physical fortitude is not the only way to continue fighting, sometimes the strength to keep fighting is literally just the strength to hold his sword. Upon attaining this class feature the Gladiator may add half his strength modifier, rounded up, to his Hp. This works retroactively upon attaining this class feature and when his Strength Modifier increases, as though he increased his constitution.

    My strength is a shield (Su)
    Even the best Gladiator cannot fight alone, and with tactics, encouragement and a little bit of innate magic, the Gladiator's allies can fight for so much longer. Once per day as a swift action the Gladiator may activate this ability. Any ally, except the Gladiator, within 50ft gains the Gladiator's str mod + con mod in temporary hit points until the end of the encounter, whether or not they remain within 50ft of the Gladiator.

    Improved uncanny dodge (Ex)
    As per the Barbarian class feature.

    Flesh of steel (Ex)
    The Gladiator has fought in innumerable fights, against a verity of opponents and has become able to better defend himself against a wide verity of attacks. The Gladiator gains DR/- equal to half his Gladiator class levels and SR equal to 10 + his Gladiator class levels.

    Improved evasion (Ex)
    As per the Rouge special ability. However the Gladiator may use Improved evasion in medium armour, as well as when he is wearing light or no armour.

    Blood hunger (Ex)
    The Gladiator knows blood as sight of joy and happiness. Whenever the Gladiator slays an opponent that would grant him experience, he heals 5d12 hit points. He also gains +4 morale bonus to the attack roll and +2 morale bonus to the damage roll against anything that can bleed. This ability replaces blood thirst.

    Improved Mettle
    This ability works like Mettle, except that while the Gladiator still takes no damage on a successful Will or Fortitude saving throw against spells like Chill touch or maneuvers like Dazing strike, henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A sleeping or helpless Gladiator does not gain the benefit of improved mettle.

    Sheer force (Ex)
    The Gladiator's strikes have become so powerful that even the hardiest or most heavily armoured of foes can fail to note that they have been struck. The Gladiator bypasses AC gained from armour or natural armour equal to twice his Strength modifier.

    Soul of the immortals (Ex)
    The Gladiator has fought for so long and so hard that he unlocks something very deep and primal. The Gladiator becomes immune to [Death] effects, Negative levels and fear effects.

    Victor of countless battles (Ex)
    The Gladiator's exploit's have become legend. Even in the most remote village in the most obscure plane knows the Gladiator and his exploits. The Gladiator gains Frightful presence, as per the Dragon ability. Save DC is 15 + 1/2 Gladiator's class levels + Gladiator's str mod. Creatures immune to fear must still make the save, but only become shaken on a failed save, with nothing happening on a succeeded save.

    There are a few caveats to using this ability, however:
    1. The Gladiator and the opponent must be engaged in combat with each other.

    2. The opponent MUST have an Int score of 3 or higher.

    3. If the opponent has no will to live or no fear of death, or lacks enough rational thought to recognise that they might die then they are immune to this ability.

    4. Anything with, at least, one level of Gladiator is immune to this ability.

    No fear of death note
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    "No fear of death" can be an odd term. A lot of things are scared to die. But, think about it this way:

    Would an Assassin who knows that every mission may be his last be scared of death? No. So they would be immune to this ability.

    Would a Zealous foot soldier who would defend his home to the last be scared of death? No.

    Would a raging Barbarian have enough rational thought to recognise the Gladiator for what he is? No.

    Would a Litch be scared of getting cleaved in two? No.

    Would an Extraplanar creature be scared of returning to their own plane? No.

    When you think about NPCs in these terms, relatively few things would be effected by this ability.


    Battlefield study (Ex)
    On the sand of the arena, the terrain of the mountains or in a back ally of some god forsaken town; the Gladiator will encounter a large number of fighting styles. And has enough martial knowledge to copy what he sees.

    Whenever the Gladiator encounters a maneuver that is both:
    1. From a discipline that the Gladiator does not know
    2. Does not require an initiator level greater than three
    The Gladiator may spend an immediate action, as soon as the maneuver was used, and "learn" this maneuver for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 his class levels + his Int mod. If the Gladiator has a negative Int mod then only 1/2 his class levels apply.

    Never give up (Ex)
    Whenever death is but moments away, the gladiator knows that if he is to die, he had better take his foe with him. Whenever the Gladiator uses the Diehard feat, he may use a full round action by taking 6 points of damage.

    Blood lust (Ex)
    The Gladiator lives for the sight of blood, watching it ooze from the enemy. Whenever the Gladiator slays an opponent that would grant him experience he gains he heals 7d20 HP. He also gains +6 morale bonus to the attack roll and +4 morale bonus to the damage roll against anything that bleeds. This ability replaces Blood Hunger.

    Call to battle (Su)/(Ex)
    Battle can be daunting, even to those whom have known it all their lives. But only the Gladiator knows it the greatest, and can share some of this knowledge with his allies. Once per day as a full round action, that provokes an AoO, the Gladiator may activate this ability. When activated, all allies, excluding the Gladiator, within 50ft gain the following for until the end of the encounter:

    (Supernatural)

    DR10/- and SR20

    They may take 10 on all fort or will saves, even if rushed or threatened.

    They negate DR of all types equal to 5 + their own str mod. (Characters that have weapon finesse may apply their dex mod when using appropriate weapons instead)

    Immunity to [Death] effects and negative levels.


    (Extraordinary, sound and language dependent)

    +5 circumstance bonus to concentration checks.

    +4 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls.

    2 AoOs per action that provokes an AoO. I.e, an enemy leaves a threatened square, the character that threatened it may make 2 AoOs against the enemy.

    Death is a choice of the weak (Su)
    The Gladiator has slain many a foe to understand that only the weak choose death, and thus the Gladiator has made a vow to never let death be a way out. Once per day as an immediate action the Gladiator may ignore damage that would reduce him to -10Hp or kill him instantly. If the Gladiator is helpless or unconscious, this ability will activate automatically when the Gladiator would die. This ability is usable against all sorts of things, such as decapitation (Instant death) or a Gnoll sticking a sharp stick into your gut (Hp loss).
    Last edited by Sgt. Cookie; 2014-01-20 at 07:51 AM.
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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    Well, you've certainly got the tough part. He's going to be preposterously hard to put down. Still, I'd rate him at mid to low Tier 4. Why? Because he can't do a whole lot other than take hits.

    My suggestions?
    • Lower the bonuses from Blood of Iron and Flesh of Steel to 1/2 Gladiator level (it'll still be good, with all the other stuff), but allow them to stack.
    • Specify that all the various healing-on-a-kill abilities don't stack.
    • Drop Gladiator's Prayer altogether-- it's really strong, doesn't fit with the rest of the class, and per week abilities are always wonky to calculate.
    • Swap Victory of Countless Presence and Death is the Choice of the Weak. Make the capstone usable [Con Modifier] times per day, and VoCP always-on, with a scaling DC. DisTotW is a much more flavorful and powerful capstone than a fear aura, but the latter idea is too cool to pass up. It's less good at higher levels, due to the number of things with immunity to mind-affecting stuff, but makes for a cool ability.
    • Add in some sort of offensive ability. If you're a fan of the Tome of Battle, getting a few Iron Heart and Stone Dragon maneuvers would fit the bill, with a recovery mechanic based on killing enemies. If not, some kind of smite that does extra damaged based on how much damage you've taken might fit the bill. Or maybe Marshal-type auras, to play up the leadership role.


    Hope this helps. It looks like a cool class.

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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    The following is mostly based on observation and... Wowness.

    So according to RAW, this guy has by level 20 - Auto-heal(1d6+2d8+3d10)/kill, DR 20/-,The ability to ignore damage beyond -9(1/week,not like he'll ever use it) instadeath immunity, make your enemies hostile on their failed will saves,Frightful presence(how does that exactly work with the "hostile" thing?) Limited Wish? and to top it all off his capstone ability(given at level 5) gives him - for 24 hours, mind you, a bonus to all rolls that is equivalent to the sum of EVERY. LIFE.HE'S.EVER.TAKEN.

    This is no gladiator, It's every DM's deathwish.

    I really don't think think this should be given to the PC's the way it is... But take off the limited wish and put the level 5 ability to the appropriate scale, this could pose a brutal challenge villain to the optimizing experienced player... I guess, of course.
    Last edited by Prince Zahn; 2011-11-15 at 04:03 PM.
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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Zahn View Post
    his capstone ability(given at level 5) gives him - for 24 hours, mind you, a bonus to all rolls that is equivalent to the sum of EVERY. LIFE.HE'S.EVER.TAKEN.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie
    Glory in battle (Ex)
    The Gladiator fights, plain and simple. He also tends to win, and when he does he becomes harder to kill. Whenever a Gladiator slays a foe or reduces him to -1 Hp or less (This includes both lethal and nonlethal damage), the Gladiator and his allies gain a +1 morale bonus to all rolls per enemy defeated or slain. This bonus lasts until the next day.
    Emphasis mine. It's pretty good, but not as overpowered as you thought. Still, should probably be limited to attack, or at most attack and damage.
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2011-11-15 at 04:16 PM.

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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    While I do like me some melee tanks and unstoppable beasts, this guy needs work.

    Right off the bat, he has no active abilities. Well, he has one. And it comes online once per week (and it might as well be a passive, since you're almost always going to use it when you die). So without a second of hesitation, I proclaim this class boring. In combat, the gladiator's job will be "I hit it with my sword." Out of combat, he suffers the Fighter Complex.

    So you NEED revision, if you want this class to be halfway interesting. Tanking abilities, interrupts, attack boosts, aura buffs, whatever. There just needs to be something.

    Moving on to the class features themselves...
    Blood of Iron: +AC, cool beans. However, this is AC that applies to both flat-footed attacks and touch attacks and stacks with everything. For AC equal to your level, that's definitely a bit much. I'd make it a natural armor bonus.

    Improved Unarmed Strike: Why?

    An Ally is a Weapon: Sounds good. Generally, meleers don't pick one opponent, surround it, and then move on, so this is pretty situational for a moderate benefit. If the rest of the class were based around this ability, it'd be cool, but this really doesn't add anything to the quality of the class.

    Uncanny Dodge: You generally just say "Barbarian" instead of "Barbarian or Rogue". I got what you meant, though.

    Never give in: Why not just call this "Diehard", the way you called the bonus feat Improved Unarmed Strike "Improved Unarmed Strike"? It's not necessary, but continuity in your work is a nice thing to have.

    Glory in Battle: This NEEDS revision. Not only can it make your party a walking RNG-smashers in every respect (including skill checks, wish for Pazuzu much?), but it falls prey to the Bag of Rats problem, where stabbing a rat gives you a +1 to everything, so you buy a bunch of them and then just spend an hour every morning stabbing them down to -1 HP and healing them back up.

    Blood thirst: A heal based on you dealing the finishing blow to an opponent (fairly often) that heals you for 1d6 is a waste of space. This is level 6, where having +2 Con will get you 41 hit points. Healing an average of 3.5 means nothing in combat. Of course, outside of combat, the Bag of Rats problem raises its ugly head once more.

    Evasion: At level 7? This is pretty weak for a level 7 class feature. I'd prefer a new level of maneuvers.

    Death is glory: So you get an ability that can be activated by you not dying, called Death is Glory. There's a flavor disconnect here. Also, "combat rolls" is not a defined term--you need to set the parameters, or else people will try and make craft checks while claiming to fight dust mites over the course of months for the +2. In other news, this is a very weak ability and doesn't deserve to be at level 8.

    Imp. Uncanny Dodge: All right.

    Flesh of Steel: Personally, I'd prefer a chance to not get hit at all (+11 AC) over a reduction of damage at high RNG values. Set this to 1/2 level or 2+1/2 level, and it'll be OK.

    Death is a choice of the weak: All right, sounds fine to me. But you need a better limiter than "1/week", because that encourages adventuring until the Gladiator uses up his auto-save, then resting for 7 days. Wash, rinse, repeat. If you perhaps make it a percentage chance (a level check, maybe?) or turn it into a contingent buff, where he can cast it as a swift action 1/day to ignore any killing effects. That would make players think twice when they want to use the ability, and prevent the spamming that you seem to be worried about.

    Blood hunger: Again, with the low ConMod of +2, you have 72 HP at this point. 9 HP is nothing in combat. Also, Bag of Rats.

    Never Give Up: Did I just hear the Bloodclaw Talons screaming for joy? This ability is far too easy to abuse. Make it a capstone, or toss it.

    Soul of the immortals: Just say that the gladiator becomes immune to [Death] effects. Along with that, negative level immunity would be nice too.

    Call to battle: First off, the DC for this will probably suck. As a gladiator, you want Strength and Constitution; maybe a bit of Dex for your AC and Int for your skills. Wisdom is also a big deal, for your will saves. Of all your abilities, Charisma is the most likely to be a dump stat, and that means your DC will be very low. In addition, "fight" needs to be defined. A beguiler "fights" by staying out of sight and reach while tossing down mind control effects. A dragon "fights" by flying out of reach, and strafing with a breath weapon and spells.

    Gladiator's Prayer: Honestly, this is level 17. Limited wish won't break the game if you get it once per day, and 1/week class abilities aren't any fun anyways. Prince Zahn is overestimating its power at this level of gameplay.

    Blood lust: Have I mentioned that this isn't nearly enough HP? Or the Bag of Rats?

    Victor of countless battles: You need a DC for this. Please don't base it on Charisma.

    On the lovely Tier system, this thing is probably 4-5. It's a padded sumo damage-wise, but can't fight abilities that force saves very well (especially Will). It also has weak damage, poor regeneration (outside of the Bag of Rats), and no flexibility. Definitely in need of work.

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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    tossing in that this needs mettel, and a high will save. improved evasion/mettel would be nice as well. would make it a pain to hit this guy with anything and make it stick. heck, SR might be appropriate for flavor. would toss a lot of the on kill availabilities more defenses, with more uses of Death is the choice of the weak.
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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    I really like your idea of this class. A lot of it seems to follow "Tough to Kill" and I think you're just missing a tiny bit before you perfect that aspect.

    A lot of the members on this forum heavily believe in an "active" ability for fighting. E.g. I attack it again is bad, while maneuvers are good.

    I think you can incorporate that here, but keep the "Tough to Kill" aspect going on. This guy can amass more options as he kills things/gets targeted.

    So for example, you have a whole list of cool effects that accompany his attacks. But you can only choose 1 (or more as he levels up) of these effects at any time. However, these effects require "points".

    Whenever he damages a creature or gets targeted by an hostile effect, he gets these "points". Killing a creature can give him even more points. At higher levels, you can spend more points for multiple abilities, etc.

    See how this is really similar to the abilities you have now? Instead of every kill automatically healing you, you can make that one of several options. This allows the class to be more versatile and fun, and I think it fits in with what you currently have.

    Also I would second the whole "get Improved Evasion" and "get Mettle/Improved Mettle". It really expands on what the "Tough to Kill" aspect.

    I would tone down the AC and the DR/- and make them stack. That's much better, IMO.
    Last edited by JKTrickster; 2011-11-15 at 10:30 PM.

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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    Most of the specific changes I might suggest have already been suggested, so I'll just talk in generalities for the most part.

    Your class abilities are strangely ordered. Normally, weak abilities are gained at low levels, while powerful ones are gained at high levels. Presently, however, there are wild variations in usefulness from one ability to the next. Evasion, for example, is pretty useful, while Death is Glory is unlikely to be used at all in most game sessions. Soul of the Immortals is a strong defensive features, but is immediately followed by a dead level in which the gladiator gains nothing. You'll want to smooth that out so that each level gives you something as good as or better than what you got the level prior.

    Overall, I'd call this a Tier 5 with balance issues. The class is (too) good at not dying, which by itself isn't valuable, but isn't useful for much else. Frankly, this tastes like a stewpot filled with fighter, barbarian, and samurai class features and one or two interesting ideas tossed in as spice. To make this a dynamic, exciting class to play, you're going to need a thematically related set of features that can't be duplicated by existing classes. And if you're seeking a higher-tier class (T3 being the usual goal), you need to jettison all of the class features borrowed from T4 and T5 classes, the better to make room for awesome inventions of your own.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2011-11-15 at 11:11 PM.
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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    Grod, I wasn't saying that it is a permanent boost, I'm saying it is a HUGE boost...
    If I may direct to the quote once more:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post

    Glory in battle (Ex)
    The Gladiator fights, plain and simple. He also tends to win, and when he does he becomes harder to kill. Whenever a Gladiator slays a foe or reduces him to -1 Hp or less (This includes both lethal and nonlethal damage), the Gladiator and his allies gain a +1 morale bonus to all rolls per enemy defeated or slain. This bonus lasts until the next day.
    Emphasis mine this time.
    See, it doesn't Hint a boundary in that sentence for the bonus, anything like "per foe the gladiator has slain over the last X (insert unit of time measurement here)", or "the bonus cannot exceed your gladiator level" would have made this problem moot. So, again- according to this RAW, the bonus counts everything hostile and/or everything the gladiator considers an enemy(up until when the duration starts/renews), so even with the time limit, what's stopping this "omen of peril" from going on a day long killing-spree, followed by killing a creature again when the time's up for an even bigger bonus?
    I agree with you common-sense wise, that's why there should probably another time limit in there for the "Kill-O-meter" as well to put the issue to rest.
    Last edited by Prince Zahn; 2011-11-17 at 04:21 PM.
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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    Plus there's not necessarily anything preventing you from murdering a bag of toads as part of your morning routine.

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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    Limiting the ability to working on foes of, say, CR no less than level-4 might be more balanced. And have it reset after he rests, for simplified bookkeeping.

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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    Or simply foes that suffice to grant you experience on being killed, for an easy explanation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Plus there's not necessarily anything preventing you from murdering a bag of toads as part of your morning routine.
    Except the S.P.C.T. (Society For Prevention of Cruelty to Toads).
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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    I need to point out that this is undergoing a major rewrite, so many of the problems mentioned will be eliminated. The rewrite will basicly include more damage dealing and leadership abilities.

    Also, for those of you who say that evasion is not useful enough for a lvl 7 (It's going to be dropped to lvl 5) ability, read it again and note that a Gladiator's evasion can be used while wearing light OR medium armour.
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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    Another question I wanted to point out before, do blood thirst,hunger and lust stack?(whether or not it does, it's important to mention despite blood thirst and lust now saying the same thing)
    Also, if so - wouldn't it be easier to count the afformentioned CA's as one by saying something like " increase the healing damage by Xd10 at Y level, and to Ad10 at Z level? I only say that 'cuz that's how it is phrased with most books.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    Except the S.P.C.T. (Society For Prevention of Cruelty to Toads).
    Were this facebook, I would like this a hundred times.

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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    The Gladiator rewrite is done, so could someone PEACH and tier this for me?
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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    Better, although I think you went too far in the other direction. Right now, I'd call it a low Tier 2, by virtue of having MORE maneuvers than a high Tier 3 like the Warblade while simultaneously being harder to kill than anything but a fully buffed spellcaster. Detailed comments below:

    • First off, way too many maneuvers known and readied. You give more than any ToB class but the Swordsage, on top of a bevy of excellent class abilities. I'd tone this way down-- allow them to pick, say, two schools from the Warblade list (Diamon Mind, Iron Heart, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, and White Raven), and drastically cut down the number of maneuvers known and readied to below Warblade levels.
    • On the same subject, the recover method is confusing. You say the process follows the usual rules, but they are recovered like a Crusader... the Crusader is the one with the weird mechanic of being dealt randomly. I suspect you meant Warblade.
    • Blood of Iron is a ridiculously huge bonus. I'd cut it down to half the class level.
    • An Ally is a Weapon is incredibly good for 2nd level.
    • My Strength is a Shield has no duration.
    • Flash of Steel gives incredibly good DR and incredibly bad SR. The DR could maybe work-- although I'd still tone it down to, say, his Strength modifier-- but SR needs to be at least level + 10 to give an unprepared mage a 50% failure chance. It's probably not necessary, though, given the improved evasion and mettle.
    • Speaking of Improved Mettle, Cone of Cold doesn't have a Fortitude save.
    • Battlefield Study is obscenely good. If anything, this kind of ability should go to the Swordsage. It doesn't quite fit the super-tough fighter you're going for here, and-- like I said-- the ability to know all maneuvers is probably utterly broken.
    • Death is the Choice of the Weak should be an immediate action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    First off, way too many maneuvers known and readied. You give more than any ToB class but the Swordsage, on top of a bevy of excellent class abilities. I'd tone this way down-- allow them to pick, say, two schools from the Warblade list (Diamon Mind, Iron Heart, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, and White Raven), and drastically cut down the number of maneuvers known and readied to below Warblade levels.
    All right, I'll do that.

    On the same subject, the recover method is confusing. You say the process follows the usual rules, but they are recovered like a Crusader... the Crusader is the one with the weird mechanic of being dealt randomly. I suspect you meant Warblade.
    I though the way they were retuned was something different. Well, that's what you get for skimming.

    Blood of Iron is a ridiculously huge bonus. I'd cut it down to half the class level.

    An Ally is a Weapon is incredibly good for 2nd level.
    I'll tone them down.

    My Strength is a Shield has no duration.
    Error on my part.

    Flash of Steel gives incredibly good DR and incredibly bad SR. The DR could maybe work-- although I'd still tone it down to, say, his Strength modifier--
    I kinda like it like that, gives the impression that the Gladiator just shrugs off damage. But if you really think it works better like that then I'll change it.

    but SR needs to be at least level + 10 to give an unprepared mage a 50% failure chance. It's probably not necessary, though, given the improved evasion and mettle.
    That's just due to my shoddy knowledge of spell resistance.

    Speaking of Improved Mettle, Cone of Cold doesn't have a Fortitude save.
    Saw a list of spells mettle works on, could have sworn cone of cold was on there.

    Battlefield Study is obscenely good. If anything, this kind of ability should go to the Swordsage. It doesn't quite fit the super-tough fighter you're going for here, and-- like I said-- the ability to know all maneuvers is probably utterly broken.
    Only one at a time though. But, you're right. Too good. Probably tone it down to a max initiator level of 3.

    Death is the Choice of the Weak should be an immediate action.
    Typo on my part.
    Last edited by Sgt. Cookie; 2011-11-20 at 09:17 AM.
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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    UPDATE:

    • Changed every aspect of the Gladiator's maneuvers.
    • Blood of iron now only grants half Gladiator class levels as a natural amour bonus.
    • An ally is a weapon only effects attack rolls.
    • Boosted the Gladiator's spell resistance to 10 + Class levels
    • Nerfed Battlefield study. Can only copy up to level 3 maneuvers, always counts as a readied maneuver and is lost when unreadied.
    • Fixed various errors and typos.
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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    This is considerably better than the first draft. A very nice improvement with a lot of flavorful, well-thought-out abilities. Nice work.

    An ally is a weapon: I'd recommend a circumstance bonus, rather than an untyped bonus, perhaps with a note indicating that it doesn't stack with other circumstance bonuses gained from receiving instructions, such as a marshal's auras. I'd also recommend some detail into how the bonus is transmitted and how it could be suppressed. For example, does the gladiator need to speak and be heard by his allies?

    Uncanny Dodge, Diehard: I'd suggest switching the order in which these two are granted, since Diehard is less powerful than Uncanny Dodge.

    Blood Thirst, Blood Hunger, Blood Lust: I'd recommend a morale bonus here, rather than an untyped bonus. Also, I'd suggest you use the term "heals" rather than "gains", as gains can imply an increase in the gladiator's maximum hit points. Also, the XP limit may not work as well as you're wanting, because a CR 1 animal is worth xp up to 8th level. You might add a spoiler with a note for novice DMs, explaining the intended use and giving examples of abusive and non-abusive uses of the ability.

    Mettle, Improved Mettle: These entries contains some excess line breaks.

    Battlefield Study: This is punishingly awkward to use. I'd suggest making the maneuver easier to pick up but allowing the gladiator to hold onto it for only a limited time, such as 1 day per level.

    Victor of Countless Battles, Soul of the Immortals: Effectively a fear effect that trumps fear immunity but is countered by a fear immunity. This invites a silly game of escalation with [fear] < [fear immunity] < [fear that trumps fear immunity] < [fear immunity that trumps fear that trumps fear immunity] < [fear that trumps fear immunity that trumps fear that trumps fear immunity]... where does it end? This is a case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too. I would suggest that if you're going to use fear, you need to use fear the way everyone else uses it.

    Sheer Force: Regarding the fluff, I think you wrote the opposite of what you meant to say. I'd suggest cutting this ability altogether. It's heavily redundant with maneuvers you already have, and your damage bonus in most cases is so large that DR isn't really a concern for this class.

    Call to Battle: Allowing all allies to automatically pass all Fort and Will saves is just right out. That sort of ability isn't even appropriate at epic levels. On the other hand, SR 5 on a group of 19th level characters is worthless. The bonus to attack and damage rolls should be a morale bonus, rather than an untyped bonus. In general, I'm very concerned about this buff because it's a lot like casting six or seven high-level party-wide defensive buffs at once. It's not guaranteed broken, but I think it's arguably better than a time stop, which is certainly cause for careful deliberation.

    Death is a Choice of the Weak: This ability contradicts itself, stating that it's valid against any effect that would kill the gladiator, but also stating that it only protects him from death due to hit point loss.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2011-11-20 at 04:27 PM.
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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    UPDATE:

    • The bonus from An ally is a weapon has been changed from untyped to morale. It has also been changed to a language and sound dependent ability and does not stack.
    • Uncanny dodge and Diehard have been switched around.
    • A note has been added to Blood thirst about abusive and non-abusive uses. Wording has changed from "Gained" to "Healed". Bonus has been changed to morale.
    • Line breaks have been removed from Mettle and Improved mettle.
    • Battlefield study now works differently. You can "learn" a maneuver as an immediate action but can only hold onto it for a certain number of rounds.
    • Victor of countless battles now has a clause that states it is ineffective against other Gladiators.
    • Sheer force and Battlefield study have been switched around.
    • Sheer force now bypasses AC gained from armour and natural armour.
    • Call to battle has been changed.
    • Death is a choice of the weak has been clarified.
    Last edited by Sgt. Cookie; 2011-11-23 at 09:19 AM.
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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    ok, the revision is broken...

    victor of countless battles: the way you've worded this, with only creatures immune to fear being able to take the save is stupid. so anything not immune to fear is now worthless against you and any class features that makes you immune to fear is worthless as well. did you hit you head on something when you where writing this ability, because I can;t for the life of me see the balance point

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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    "That **** **** beckons me to the city only to spurn me like a thin waisted whore; once again the gods spread the cheeks and ram **** in ****ing ass!"

    -Quintus Lentulus Batiatus (Sparticus: Blood & Sand)

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    EDIT: WOW that censorship slaughtered the quote ah well
    Last edited by Calanon; 2011-11-23 at 05:55 PM.
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    BoM: VoCB will be changed. After sleeping on it, Victor of Countless Battles IS a bit OP. It's gonna get nerfed and a caveat that you probably ignored will be made MUCH more apparent.

    All in all, VoCB will only end up effecting the minority of creatures.

    Calanon: Will this be a RL or PbP? If it's PbP I'll probably be able to see for my self, if it's RL; be sure to let me know how it went, if you don't mind.

    Spartacus: Blood and sand was what prompted me to make this class. Brilliant series. Laughable green screen.
    Last edited by Sgt. Cookie; 2011-11-24 at 08:26 AM.
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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    Calanon: Will this be a RL or PbP? If it's PbP I'll probably be able to see for my self, if it's RL; be sure to let me know how it went, if you don't mind.
    It'll be RL I'll tell you exactly how it went
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    Default Re: The Gladiator (3.5 Base class) PEACH

    Thanks.
    Just glad to see something of mine be played.
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