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    Default I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti (3.5, PrC, PEACH)

    The Eater


    “I do wish we could chat longer, but... I'm having an old friend for dinner.”

    Some men just want to watch the world burn. Others will sacrifice anything for revenge. But some men are… different. For them, it’s not enough to just kill a foe. They want to taste victory in the most literal way possible— by devouring the flesh of their enemies.

    Requirements:
    To become an Eater, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

    Alignment: Any evil
    Base Attack Bonus: +5
    Feats: Improved Toughness
    Special: Must have eaten a substantial portion of a sentient being (defined as at least half the total weight of a creature with an intelligence score of at least 6).

    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Bite Damage Bite Enhancement Bonus
    1 +1 +2 +0 +0 Bite Attack, Flesh of the Fallen 1d6 -
    2 +2 +3 +0 +0 Latch On 1d6 -
    3 +3 +3 +1 +1 Fangs of Terror 1d6 +1
    4 +4 +4 +1 +1 Blood of the Foe 1d8 +2
    5 +5 +4 +1 +1 Flesh of the Foe 1d8 +2
    6 +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Oversized Jaws 1d8 +3
    7 +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Digest Flesh 2d6 +3
    8 +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Fangs of Destruction 2d6 +4
    9 +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Cannibal Soul 2d6 +4
    10 +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Digest Soul 3d6 +5

    Hit Die: d10
    Class Skills: Craft, Hide, Intimidate, Move Silently, Profession, Spot, Survival, Tumble, Use Rope
    Skill Points at Each Level: 2+Int modifier

    Class Features


    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An Eater is automatically proficient with his bite attack, but gains no new proficiency with weapons or armor.

    Bite Attack (Ex)- At 1st level, an Eater gains bite attack as a primary natural weapon, dealing the damage indicated in the column to the right. When making a full attack, he may make a bite attack at no penalty, in addition to any other attacks he might make that round.

    Creatures who already have a bite attack have it promoted to being a primary natural weapon, if it wasn't already, and receive the Improved Natural Attack feat for their bite attack. At every level an Eater's bite damage would normally increase (4,7,10), they gain the Improved Natural Attack feat again.

    Flesh of the Fallen (Ex)- An Eater may devour the body of a fallen foe. Doing so destroys the body for the purposes of spells such as raise dead or animate dead. After doing so, he gains a morale bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to one-half his Eater levels for one hour.

    To count for this ability, the foe must have been organic and animate at some point in the last hour, and either have an intelligence score of 6 and above, or a challenge rating of at least one-half the Eater's level. Eating new foes refreshes the duration of this ability. Summoned creatures never count for the purposes of this ability. The time it takes to devour a foe is given on the table below:

    Fine Diminuative Tiny Small Medium Large Huge Gargantuan Colossal
    Swift action Move action 12 seconds 30 seconds 1 minute 2 minutes 10 minutes 30 minutes 1 hour

    Latch On (Ex)- Beginning at 2nd level, if an Eater hits a foe up to one size larger than him with his bite attack, he may attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. No touch attack is needed. Once the grapple has begun, the Eater automatically hits with his bite attack on every subsequent round; however, he loses his Dexterity bonus to AC. He still must make grapple checks as normal to maintain the grapple. If he begins a grapple in another way, he may latch onto his foe with a successful grapple check.

    Fangs of Terror (Su)- Beginning at 3rd level, an Eater’s bite attack gains an enhancement bonus equal to one-half his Eater level.

    Blood of the Foe (Ex)- At 4th level, an Eater gains the ability to drain the blood from his foes. Every round he remains latched on to a foe (see above), he deals them 1d4 Constitution damage.

    Flesh of the Foe (Ex)- Beginning at 5th level, every time an Eater does bite damage to a foe, he regains hit points equal to half the damage he inflicted. This ability only works on organic foes.

    Oversized Jaws (Ex)- Beginning at 6th level, an Eater counts as one size larger for the purposes of grapple checks. In addition, when making a bite attack, he may add twice his Strength modifier to the damage.

    Digest Flesh (Ex)- At 7th level, an Eater may dislocate his jaws an swallow a foe. If he begins his turn latched onto a foe of his size or smaller, he may attempt a new grapple check. If he succeeds, he swallows his foe, doing bite damage. Each round, the swallowed creature takes 1d6/Eater level bludgeoning and acid damage. The Eater heals half of the total damage inflicted, as with his Flesh of the Foe ability. His stomach may hold one creature of his size, two creatures of one size smaller, four creatures of two sizes smaller, and so on.

    To escape, the creature must either make a successful grapple check or attempt to cut his way free using a light or natural weapon that deals slashing or piercing damage. The Eater's stomach has an AC of 10+1/2 his Eater level, and the foe must deal 5 damage/Eater level to cut his way out. Afterwards, muscular action closes the hole, so new creatures must cut their own way out.

    If a foe is killed by this ability, the Eater automatically gains the benefits of his Flesh of the Fallen ability (assuming the foe is organic), and the corpse is entirely digested, clearing the way for another creature to be swallowed.

    Fangs of Destruction (Ex)- Beginning at 8th level, an Eater’s bite attack counts as adamantine. He may devour inorganic foes such as elementals and constructs and gain the usual benefits of Flesh of the Fallen and Flesh of the Foe.

    Cannibal Soul (Ex)- Beginning at 9th level, while an Eater is devouring a corpse, he gains fast healing equal to his Eater level. However, if he does so, he does not gain the benefit of Flesh of the Fallen.

    Digest Soul (Su)- At 10th level, an Eater can devour a creature’s very essence. If a swallowed creature dies, he may chose to devour their soul. If he does so, All attempts at resurrection or to communicate with the deceased fail. The soul can only be retrieved by killing the Eater before he can expend the soul (see below) and using a wish or miracle spell.

    Once he has devoured a creature's soul, the Eater can expend it as an immediate action to gain a +20 profane bonus on any single d20 roll. After he expends the soul, it is utterly annihilated, and only direct divine action can retrieve it. He may store a number of souls equal to his Constitution modifier. However, doing so is mentally unbalancing- he takes a -2 penalty to Wisdom for each soul stored in this manner.

    Only living creatures with an Intelligence score of 6 or above are counted as having souls. Outsider (native)'s have souls, as do Outsiders who are physically present (DM's digression; usually true only on their home planes). Summoned creatures never count.

    (note to DMs running an Eater as a villain- DON'T EXPEND PLAYERS' SOULS. That's a really cruel thing to do, and stopping players from resurrecting their beloved characters without REALLY good cause can only end in tears and/or screaming matches.
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2014-04-03 at 01:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Major Works:
    • STaRS: The Simple Tabletop Roleplaying System; my attempt at a generic rules-light system.
    • Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 revisions-- houserules, class fixes, ban lists and more.
    • Chopping Down the Christmas Tree: Rules for low- or no-magic item games of 3.5.
    • D&D in M&M-- Balancing 3.5 by porting it lock, stock, and barrel into a more balanced system.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti (3.5, PrC, PEACH)

    Bite Attack: First off, you should probably handle the cases where they already have a bite attack. (Improve it for having it?) That being said, it seems reasonable, though the exact scaling speed might need to be adjusted. It might be a little bit fast.

    Feast of the Fallen: Seems a little odd. Its use seems to be a little odd, but since it doesn't seem to have a sentience requirement, then someone who didn't need to sleep could permanently sustain a huge bonus using a bag of rats. Even without it, you're easily looking at a +5 bonus at entry, which is a bit strong for something that's going to last through a dungeon romp after the first fight.

    Latch On: Mechanically, it's something between Attach and Improved Grab. The main issue seems to be that you're combining the auto-hit mechanic of Attach without the primary downside (Dropping your Dex bonus to AC for everybody, including who you're attacking). I'd add that in, but past that, I think it seems solid.

    Fangs of Terror: Pretty simple, and it fits fine.

    Blood of the Foe: It's the same comment as before with Attach. Nothing too huge here.

    Flesh of the Foe: 1/2 vampiric regen doesn't seem too bad. It fits fairly well.

    Oversized Jaws: I'm a little more hesitant about the sharp increase in grappling than other things, but on the whole, it seems fitting and would probably work okay.

    Digest Flesh: Again, it needs some way to handle monsters which already have a Swallow Whole attack. I don't quite get why bite damage is inflicted in this case (Isn't it usually acid or crushing damage? You could have it scale with levels, but calling it bite damage is a little awkward).

    Fangs of Destruction: Again, fairly fitting, fairly straightforward.

    Cannibalize Soul: Five times might be a little much. It's probably going to be a full heal just from destroying smaller things, and while the idea is sound, the number just seems a little too high.

    Digest Soul: Less refreshable than Feast of the Fallen, but it has the same issue. The bonus from it will be absolutely massive, and the fact that it stacks with Feast only makes things worse.


    On the whole, the idea seems sound. However, I think the bonuses from Feast of the Fallen and Digest Soul are a bit too high even in casual use situations, and might need to be toned down a bit. Past that, the entire thing seems fairly solid.
    Last edited by Ruduen; 2011-11-21 at 02:51 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
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    NeoSeraphi's Avatar

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    Default Re: I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti (3.5, PrC, PEACH)

    All base classes have the Craft and Profession skills as class skills. Why are you removing them?

    Flesh of the Fallen- Hit Dice does not scale with CR, they are totally different. You devour a CR 11 cloud giant, and you have a +17 bonus to your attack and damage rolls. That's the equivalent of a +34 morale bonus to Strength. For one hour. Was this your intention? Seems...crazy to me.

    Latch On- Useful, flavorful, fits.

    Fangs of Terror- How is this supernatural, exactly? I guess you did it so the magical enhancement would be suppressed in an anti-magic field still, but there's no need. It's a bite attack, let it be extraordinary.

    Digest Flesh- A PC Swallow Whole ability! Now that is unique! But your gullet needs an AC, please.

    Fangs of Destruction- If your bite is adamantine, it should ignore hardness like adamantine too (so you can bite through bones and axes. Sundering bite for the win)

    Digest Soul- Oh wow. This is different. A +20 or so bonus on all saving throws is nothing to scoff at, especially with a 24 hour duration.

    I think you need some kind of cap on the 2nd level and capstone abilities.
    Sweet sorcerer avatar by Cuthalion

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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti (3.5, PrC, PEACH)

    Firstly, I must say I really enjoy the idea of this PrC. I must, however agree with the above post concerning scaling down the power; I'll give you some specific references and examples, per ability.

    Bite Attack: The scaling speed for this needs to come down a little; Okay, maybe a lot. To put it simply, the bite attack is dealing massive damage, even in excess of a fast scaling primary natural attack; and bites are usually secondary attacks. I'd start at D4, then go to D6, D8, D10, then 2D6. This may seem low, but it matches power scaling, and I will nullify your fears somewhat with Oversized Jaws.

    Feast on the Fallen: The primary problem here is the huge inconsistency between a monster's CR and its HD. It is both possible to have a monster at CR 5 with 10 HD, and a monster at CR 21 with 14 HD. Rather than basing the ability on the monster, make it a static +1/2 class level, bacause that bonus stick around for quite some time. I could also see making it a +1 per class level, but applying only on the next attack made within the hour. I feel like it's an invigoration based on bloodlust, especially as its an extraordinary ability.

    Latch On: This as been addressed in a previous post, but I'll second the motion of adding the drawbacks of either improved grab or attach.

    Fangs of Terror: The enhancement bonus balances out just fine, though I'll admit the name had me expecting some kind of fear effect.

    Blood of the Foe: Balances out fine; same effect as Vampiric blood drain, minus the HP regen. I would add it the necessity of making a successful grapple each round to maintain the pin, though.

    Flesh of the Foe: The problem here is the vast abusability, and staggering power in comparison to similar abilities. Most abilities which grant HP regen on a successful use give the possibility of the opponent's reduction of effects, and only allow a set regen. For example, the wight and the vampire heal 5 HP on a successful energy drain, and the opponent gets a save later to remove that level. It never increases past 5. Meanwhile, this bite has an enhancement bonus, massive damage, and comes to allow twice the PCs strength bonus to attacks. Without even trying, the Eater is healing 10 points per hit, on average. That's a problem. I'd likely drop this to 5 points heal at level 5, increasing to 10 at level 10; and ONLY ON A CRIT. That also supports fluff a little; a bite attack means you are biting down and puncturing, not tearing off and eating a little meat with every bite.

    Oversized Jaws: This whole ability's effect seems out of place; the sharp increase in grappling ability is only slightly less worrisome than the proportionately massive bonus to damage. We can simplify this easily. At this level, the Eater should instead gain Improved Natural Attack as a bonus feat, increasing his size category by one for the purpose of his bite attack. This puts the bite back up nearly to where it sat before i reduced the die size. To put it in fluff, larger jaws are more damaging, but they don't mean your jaws are stronger for their size, nor are they better to hold on with.

    Digest Flesh: Okay; Firstly, I have never seen a swallow whole ability which allows one to swallow creatures of its size. To look at an extreme example, even the Tarrasque can't swallow creatures of its size. The scaling should start one size smaller, then progress.
    Secondly, that damage is preposterous. Going by your original damage values, that's 14D6 per round at 10th level. Again with the Tarrasque, which deals 2d8 acid and 2d8 crushing on a swallow. I'd take the eater down to 1d6 damage a round, or, slightly higher, a set 10 damage.
    Thirdly, 10 damage per point of con mod? Try 10 damage, period. Hate to look back at the beast of terror, but it takes 50 points to escape the Tarrasque's digestion, and it has a con of 35. By your values, it should take 140 points of damage to escape. A character with a 18 con would require 40 points. And con can be boosted. Easily.
    In short, this class presently has a swallow whole ability better than the Tarrasque's. I have no words.

    Fangs of Destruction: The Adamantine bonus is coming at too low a level to be quite balanced; besides that, it doesn't fit the theme of the class. Adamantine is useful against objects and constructs, but the class is based around devouring living creatures, not grinding bricks in its molars. It's an interesting image, but doesn't work. Perhaps add Magic DR instead?

    Cannibalize Soul: Same problem as with flesh of the fallen; don't base it on the HD. The HD thing works to a degree, it essentially means you're gaining the average value of the creature's maximum possible HP in healing. This does, however, mean that you're likely getting either too much or too little. Instead, say that for every full round action spent tearing into a corpse, the Eater benefits from fast healing 10. This ability may be used for a maximum number of rounds equal to the Eater's class level, after which there's not enough flesh left to gain the benefit. I'd also say that the Eater must choose between flesh of the Fallen and Cannibal Soul.

    Devour Soul: The closest analog to this is the Devour ability of the Barghest; and they most certainly don't get it on every attack, nor is it guaranteed. The ability as written is extremely volatile, not to mention granting a massive bonus. Instead, I'd write it that only creatures killed via digestion are affected, and there is a 50% chance that Wish, Miracle, or True Resurrection are ineffective. Obviously, any means of raising which requires the body cannot succeed. I would grant no other numerical benefit for the use of this ability. Instead, in the day after devouring a soul the Eater may expend the soul's latent energy from hit body to gain a +20 profane bonus on a single D20 roll as an immediate action. This prevents the possibility of over-ramping abilities together as well.

    I hope you don't think I'm cutting down too much of the class's numerical bonuses due to feeding; keep in mind though, that ALL of those numerical bonuses are extraordinary abilities. They cannot be countered, cannot be cancelled, and cannot be dispelled. Something to consider.
    I'd also consider comparing numerical values with other class by level in the future, and with the corresponding abilities of monsters at the class level when abilities are gained. That should keep you from getting off track.

    Be well, and Happy Gaming :)

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    Default Re: I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti (3.5, PrC, PEACH)

    Thanks for all the feedback. Since you all raised pretty similar points, I'll address them by topic, instead of by person.

    • Bite Attack- I'll slow down the scaling a little bit, but this is his main attack. There are plenty of things with a primary bite attack, MalikLucius, albeit mostly things with ONLY a bite attack. I also want to stick to the normal progression, as given in the Improved Natural Attack feat. I will make a note about things with a pre-existing bite attack, though.
    • Flesh of the Fallen- ...yeah, you're right. The bonus is probably too big. I'll tone it down to a level-based bonus, reduce the duration, and restrict the use to prevent the bag-of-rats bit. I don't want to limit it to sentient creatures, though, since that's rather too large a drawback for a main class ability.
    • Latch On- good point, all. I'll throw in the downside from Attach.
    • Fangs of Terror- I see your point, NeoSeraphi, but I really don't see how an effectively magical ability works with an Extraordinary ability.
    • Blood of the Foe- I think the wording is already clear enough about having to maintain the grapple.
    • Oversized Jaws- counting as one size larger is only a +4 bonus-- the same as taking the Improved Grapple feat. It's hardly huge, and some kind of boost is necessary given how many grapple-based abilities the Eater has. The damage boost is because, again, his jaws are his main attack, and he has to be able to deal a solid amount of damage with them. 2x strength is a bit more than a two-handed weapon, but he can't power attack in the same way, so...
    • Digest Flesh. Hoo boy...


    • Every creature I looked at with a Swallow Whole ability does damage that's 100% identical to their bite damage. I probably will tone down the damage to just 1d6/level-- a lot compared to other swallow whole abilities, I admit, but still fairly light compared to the spells your fellow party members are throwing around.
    • I know that most things can't swallow creatures of their own size, but most things with the ability are BIG. This is a prestige class for players, most of whom will be medium sized. They NEED to be able to swallow things their own size if they ever want to practically use this ability, as absurd as it may sound.
    • I'll add an AC to the gullet and lower the health to, say, 5/Eater level. Yes, that brings it up to Tarrasque levels, but the balance of PC verses monster is a little wonky. And a lot more monsters have natural weapons than PCs have effective light weapons.

    • Fangs of Destruction- hmm... on the one hand, it would be awfully cool to be able to bite swords in half, but the flavor... aha! What if I drop the evil-aligned bit, give the full benefits of adamantine, and allow the Eater to digest inorganic matter as well as organic? Constructs, elementals... you name it, he can eat it.
    • MalikLucius, good call on Cannibal Soul. I'm stealing that
    • Devour Soul... limiting it to swallowed foes is good. I suppose I should allow SOME way for PCs who run afoul of one of these guys to get resurrected. And... hmm. Expending the devoured soul to gain a huge bonus on one roll isn't a bad idea at all. I will add a few lines about what does and doesn't have a soul to prevent bag-of-rats abuse. (although, to be fair, it would be 100% in-character for an Eater to have a bagful of rats that he snacks on like popcorn )
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2011-11-21 at 12:29 PM.

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    Default Re: I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti (3.5, PrC, PEACH)

    I love this class! Keep up the good work!
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