[3.5] Incantatrix Handbook (WIP)

[Tvtyrant]

I'm not sure how wise it is making it easier for noob players to break the game with the best prestige class.

I thought the entire point of handbooks was to teach people to do things that they don't have the system mastery to do yet on their own?

[Optimator]

I thought the entire point of handbooks was to teach people to do things that they don't have the system mastery to do yet on their own?

Fair enough.

One of my favorite things about Incantatrix is how often you can use cooperative metamagic and metamagic effect.

[Endarire]

This is something I pondered doing.

The list of persistable spells was too much work.

This is a spiffy Incantatrix image I found.

What about the less-used class features, like Seize Concentration and Metamagic Spell Trigger?

[Malachei]

This is something I pondered doing.

The list of persistable spells was too much work.

This is a spiffy Incantatrix image I found.

What about the less-used class features, like Seize Concentration and Metamagic Spell Trigger?

Thank you for the link. This is the official incantatrix image from PGtF.

And yes, the list of persistable spells is a lot of work. I'll appreciate any help with proof-reading etc. Given the many spells, I am sure I'll miss some and there will be errors.

The less-used class features: I have a short text on the class features I'll post shortly.

[Emperor Tippy]

This is something I pondered doing.

The list of persistable spells was too much work.

This is a spiffy Incantatrix image I found.

Considering that the Spell Compendium alone has over a thousand spells and that between Occular Spell and Arcane Reach you can Persist almost every spell in the game, yes the list of spells to persist is long.

What about the less-used class features, like Seize Concentration and Metamagic Spell Trigger?

Metamagic Spell Trigger is nifty except for the bit where you have to have the items relevant feat to take advantage of it, which can be a bit annoying as many Incantatrix builds are feat starved. If you have the feat, then it's a great way to Persist and Extend ranger, bard, assassin, cleric, etc. spells that are low level.

Seize Concentration is nice but situational. Relatively few of the spells thrown around actually require concentration.

Now Snatch Spell is real nice. It's possibly the easiest way to get rid of things like Prismatic Spheres (snatch it and then dismiss it). The fact that the CL checks are opposed is a pain but it's still nifty.

Instant Meta is good but the 2/day limit makes its use iffy. My personal opinion is that this is best saved to use with Quicken.

[Hirax]

I like using instant meta with twin and repeat too.

[Emperor Tippy]

I like using instant meta with twin and repeat too.

I tend to use Instant Twin/Repeat on stuff with a high XP or Material cost. Instant Twin Wish, for example.

[Malachei]

I agree, and there's two main points to Instant Metamagic, IMO:

(1) It makes sense to stack the highest metamagic feats on it (Quicken, Twin, Repeat, etc. except Persist of course).

(2) Arguably, it provides the basis for the epic progression (ouch!).

[Hirax]

(2) Arguably, it provides the basis for the epic progression (ouch!).

The epic progression is given in the same book, and it does continue giving you uses (along with a feat at level 13, 16, etc.). So no need for theoretical arguements, it does only get crazier when you get more uses of it in epic levels, because it obviates the need for metamagic reducers to an extent.

[Malachei]

The epic progression is given in the same book, and it does continue giving you uses (along with a feat at level 13, 16, etc.). So no need for theoretical arguements, it does only get crazier when you get more uses of it in epic levels, because it obviates the need for metamagic reducers to an extent.

It's been some time since epic... obviously, I just created the exact same progression as found on page 129 of PgtF... well, it is pretty late.

[Emperor Tippy]

The epic progression is given in the same book, and it does continue giving you uses (along with a feat at level 13, 16, etc.). So no need for theoretical arguements, it does only get crazier when you get more uses of it in epic levels, because it obviates the need for metamagic reducers to an extent.

You want something fun, the highest meta in the game is +7. Take the epic feat Improved Meta 5 times (it stacks with the Incantatrix Improved Meta as well) and you can dump any meta in the game onto a spell for +1. Have it be a spell that you used Arcane Thesis on and you can pour every single meta in the entire game on it without raising it's spell slot.

Grab Auto Quicken 3 times and then start taking Manyspell as well.

Epic is very nice to Meta.

[Malachei]

My favourite Epic Feat is Multispell.

I think the Auto- (Quicken, Silent, Still) metamagics have been nerfed into oblivion in CAr.

[Tvtyrant]

I like your list of persistables!

[Malachei]

I like your list of persistables!

Thank you! It is far from finished though. I also have to find a better formatting so it is more readable.

[Hirax]

Shapechange is rightfully on your persist list, will you be including a suggested list of forms? Chronotyryn from Fiend Folio is a must mention because it gives you 2 rounds worth of actions every round, and comes with other great features. Spell weavers (MM2) also pair nicely if you have mindsight, because they have 1,000 mile telepathy. Formian queens get an honorable mention for 50 mile telepathy, but are also immobile (barring further transmutation).

Also, mystic shield (Empire of Shade) is worth a mention despite its 400GP material component cost. Once you can afford it, pair it with ghostform (or permeable form from Lords of Madness if you want to be cheesy, it's the same as ghost form but with a 1 round duration - still persistable!) and you become immune to all weapons. Mystic shield removes the magical properties of all weapons attacking you, and ghostform (or anything that makes you incorporeal) makes non-magic weapons (now all of them) miss you. Starmantle (BoED) is an alternative to ghostform for this purpose; it destroys all non-magic weapons/ammo that strike you.

edit: mystic shield also blocks all spells of 6th level or lower, but doesn't interfere with your own spells/buffs.

[Emperor Tippy]

Greater Ironguard should be on there as well, Immunity to all metal weapons.

And everything can be persisted with Occular Spell.

[Malachei]

Chronotyryn from Fiend Folio is a must mention because it gives you 2 rounds worth of actions every round, and comes with other great features. Spell weavers (MM2) also pair nicely if you have mindsight, because they have 1,000 mile telepathy. Formian queens get an honorable mention for 50 mile telepathy, but are also immobile (barring further transmutation).

Also, mystic shield (Empire of Shade) is worth a mention despite its 400GP material component cost. Once you can afford it, pair it with ghostform (or permeable form from Lords of Madness if you want to be cheesy, it's the same as ghost form but with a 1 round duration - still persistable!) and you become immune to all weapons. Mystic shield removes the magical properties of all weapons attacking you, and ghostform (or anything that makes you incorporeal) makes non-magic weapons (now all of them) miss you. Starmantle (BoED) is an alternative to ghostform for this purpose; it destroys all non-magic weapons/ammo that strike you.

Thank you for your excellent suggestions! I hadn't planned to go into that much detail, especially since you can change form every round, so a persisted Shapechange does not differ that much from a standard Shapechange (Extended at level 20 = 6 hours and 40 minutes).

But I really appreciate the list and will include them.

I fondly remember the Chronotyryn from an encounter in the desert. The party was searching for lost scrolls of the elder gods and was lead to a sunken pyramid by a disguised Kenku Spellthief 20. Here, they were ambushed by a few Deadborn Vultures, Locust Swarms and then the Chronotyryn. They had to use every ace they had.

[Myth]

My personal DnD story, for those who care:

Spoiler

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I find this guide helpful. Before I started playing PbP (no one to play tabletop with where I live, yes it's a sad, sad story) I had only played Baldur's Gate II and Icewind Dale II. That about summed up my experience with DnD.

When I went to the states I got to the second floor of the Barnes&Noble book store in Hyannis Port and I saw a huge 8 by 12 feet rack of DnD books of all kind. I spent an afternoon there, just reading and drooling. It was like mythology, but you could also play it and share it with your friends!

Anyway when I came back to reality the only option I had was to play PbP which, as I'm sure most of you know, has it's limitations. I had to learn everything from scratch. Starting with things like Elemental Savant for the full 10 levels because of fluff (cringe) and going for a blaster generalist Sun Elf... Yeah it was a hard learning curve. Coming here for advice lead me from that to playing a Conjurer/Master Conjurer/Incantatrix with Abrupt Jaunt. I still had to read a lot, books and guides included. It still took me some time and a thread I had started, to "get" why Incantatrix is good.

As a DM I would allow an Incantatrix. I'd also allow a Dweomerkeeper in most games. Especially for Epic, like one of my abandoned projects where the party had to go back in time to slay Cyric. There are things that can break the game yes, but a regular Wizard, or a Red Wizard, or a STP Erudite, even an Arcan Swordsage can all break it just fine regarldess.

IMO advice here should be to good "gentlemanly" playing of the Incantatrix class. People who want to be a CE Outsider race Incantatrix should not be allowed to play the class. It should follow it's fluff and the class features should be used with measure and moderation. The caster not dying due to Persisted buffs and using Shapechange is fine. If he wants to break Shapechange and it's Su abilities he can do that just fine with a simple Rod of Metamagic Extend.

My point is that guides such as this can help new players (and DMs) to know why something is good and how it can potentially lead to disaster. The other ways include half-mouthed replies in threads, or lurking and reading conversations between Tippy and UrPriest for example, where you're struggling to follow.

Also, not every Incantatrix is Cindy and IMO Cindy is 100% theoretical optimization. That didn't stop one playgrounder from asking to play her in my Epic game. It's about common sense and what one values in a game overall. Plus we all know players want to play powerful characters, and I am very anti-Stormwind.

[Morph Bark]

You want something fun, the highest meta in the game is +7.

Which one is that? The highest I've ever heard of or seen has always been Persist.

[Tvtyrant]

Which one is that? The highest I've ever heard of or seen has always been Persist.

Intensify Spell, I am assuming. It is an epic metamagic that maximizes and then doubles variable effects.

[Emperor Tippy]

Which one is that? The highest I've ever heard of or seen has always been Persist.

Intensify Spell, it's an epic feat that's +7.

[Draz74]

IIRC, I think you forgot to list some more bonus metamagic feats in the details of the class's features.

[Malachei]

Thanks! (fixed).

Added section on increasing Spellcraft DC. I'll go hunting for more, but this is the current status. If anyone has more sources of Spellcraft increase, please let me know.

Please note I'll include "standard" ones in the table. The ones considered heavy optimizing (and, perhaps, cheesy) will be in another section.

[Parra]

Just a thought on your long list of spells to persist. Maybe cut them down to the 'best' ones, or at least the ones most likely to be useful?

The list, as it is, is a bit long and is filled with spells that no normal incantatrix style wizard would pesist.

[Malachei]

Thanks and I agree. I wanted to have a long-list, then evaluate it and point out the best combinations. I'd want to include a few more sources over the next few days before.

[Myth]

I had started a thread a while back asking the PG OptFu gurus for ways to buff Spellcraft. Here it is.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

First of all, keep up the good work. These comments are meant to improve upon the handbook.

Bladeweave isn't reactionary; the daze triggers when you make a successful melee attack, making it another (pretty damn good) gish spell.

Speaking of gish spells, Menacing Tentacles uses your strength score and you're basically in melee, so I'd call it another gish spell. I'd also point out Menacing Tentacles in the Extend Tentacles entry and visa versa; if you're casting one you're probably also casting the other.

I also note a lack of Draconic Polymorph. Like Polymorph, but personal (persistable without Ocular), some stat bumps, and an HD cap removal.

I would also bold the "staple" spells of a particular level (swift fly, greater invisibility) and maybe give a special color to the gish ones and give them more thought than "if you're a gish..." Incantatrix is a common gish option in my experience in high power games.

Also, mention fell drain on cloud of knives/menacing tentacles/etc.

[Malachei]

I had started a thread a while back asking the PG OptFu gurus for ways to buff Spellcraft. Here it is.

Thanks.

First of all, keep up the good work. These comments are meant to improve upon the handbook.

Thanks.

Bladeweave isn't reactionary; the daze triggers when you make a successful melee attack, making it another (pretty damn good) gish spell.

Speaking of gish spells, Menacing Tentacles uses your strength score and you're basically in melee, so I'd call it another gish spell. I'd also point out Menacing Tentacles in the Extend Tentacles entry and visa versa; if you're casting one you're probably also casting the other.

I also note a lack of Draconic Polymorph. Like Polymorph, but personal (persistable without Ocular), some stat bumps, and an HD cap removal.

Thanks again. Good points, I'll include them.

I would also bold the "staple" spells of a particular level (swift fly, greater invisibility) and maybe give a special color to the gish ones and give them more thought than "if you're a gish..." Incantatrix is a common gish option in my experience in high power games.

Also, mention fell drain on cloud of knives/menacing tentacles/etc.

Regarding gish, there's this Gish Handbook. It doesn't mention Incantatrix, though probably because it is often banned. That does not contradict your point at all, though, and I think a 3-level dip is excellent for a gish or a full caster going for other pastures. If you have more comments, especially regarding the combinations of spells that support a gish, I'm very happy to include them. I'll add a bit on this (A caveat, as well, though: the guide can't possibly cover every way one could use Incantatrix to support another build. I'm happy to add gish-related information, and I completely agree with you, but primarily, the guide addresses a full-caster's perspective).

Of course, the staple spells will be colored.

[Draz74]

Maybe could use a bit of information about entries to Incantatrix other than Wizard/Sorcerer. I, for one, am curious what could be done with a Beguiler/Incantatrix (it's INT-based, at least!). And of course there are infamous exploits that are specific to Wu Jen/Incantatrix (using Body Outside Body to multiply your daily uses of Metamagic Effect and Cooperative Metamagic, a la Team Solars).

[Myth]

An often neglected spell to Persist is Srinshee’s Spellshift. You can find it in Lost Empires of Faerun. It lets you use a Counterspell action to devastating effect (effectively it can end the rocket tag between ECL 20 casters depending on DM interpretation for Timestop)

I'll give you a hint. It also has a 10th level version from before Karsus's Folly. It was one of the spells the party would have had to use in order to not get mudrerstomped by Cyric in the Deicide game. Yes you guys would have gotten 10th level spells.

I can actually give you the details on the 10th level version, published in "The Fall of Myth Drannor", an AD&D book for fun if you like. But the 3.5, 9th level version is still pretty damn good, and it won't get you killed by your DM, I mean Mystra.