The joys of a properly moderated forum

[Avilan the Grey]

Just wanted to forward my gratitude to all the Mods (and the Giant!) on these forums.
I have spent the weekend on the Sims official forums, and yes I know they have a higher load (but not THAT much higher, it seems) and are a bigger Troll Magnet, but they (EA) seem's completely unable to deal with it.

I don't know if there is also other issues, their forum seems set up to invite certain problems, for example they have no limit on Sig sizes etc.

Anyway, again... Thank you all for doing such a damned good job.

[Killer Angel]

There's a reason why this one is basically the only forum i'm really into.

[Tengu_temp]

GitP's very strict moderation means that instead of openly trolling and flaming, people are incredibly passive-aggressive towards each other instead, and many senior members become grandmasters at insulting other people without breaching the forum rules.

Not sure if it's an improvement.

[Asta Kask]

GitP's very strict moderation means that instead of openly trolling and flaming, people are incredibly passive-aggressive towards each other instead, and many senior members become grandmasters at insulting other people without breaching the forum rules.

Not sure if it's an improvement.

It is. It absolutely is. At least for me. YMMV.

[Skeppio]

GitP's very strict moderation means that instead of openly trolling and flaming, people are incredibly passive-aggressive towards each other instead, and many senior members become grandmasters at insulting other people without breaching the forum rules.

Not sure if it's an improvement.

It isn't. It just encourages passive-aggressive behaviour, as well as hurling insults behind people's backs off-site.

[Mx.Silver]

From what I've seen things aren't that bad here by and large. Now granted, I don't really spend time around the RPG discussion areas of the site, which from what I've heard is where things tend to get the worst, but still I've seen a lot worse places than what I have seen of these forums.

How much of that is due to the mod policy I don't know (I've been on some forums with great community atmosphere and less strict moderation policies), but it's probably not entirely insignificant.

GitP's very strict moderation means that instead of openly trolling and flaming, people are incredibly passive-aggressive towards each other instead, and many senior members become grandmasters at insulting other people without breaching the forum rules.

Not sure if it's an improvement.

There may be something to consider in that as a result of the topic-wide bans people who might otherwise have been banned for behaviour on those topics may still remain part of the overall community.

Still, I'd been inclined to say forced civility is preferable to flare-ups of full-on hostility.

[Killer Angel]

GitP's very strict moderation means that instead of openly trolling and flaming, people are incredibly passive-aggressive towards each other instead, and many senior members become grandmasters at insulting other people without breaching the forum rules.

Not sure if it's an improvement.

we all know that passive-aggressive insults are not allowed, but I concede that are less clear than open offences. Anyway, even if a certain kind of behavior slips away, threads that step out of line are closed, so things tend to avoid escalation.

[Slipperychicken]

I think it's an improvement. Granted, these days the only other forum I use is /tg, so that may have impacted my appreciation for this site's relative cleanliness.

It's nice to be able to browse the site at work, safe in the knowledge that my manager won't walk by and see a screen covered with all-caps swear words and suggestive images of cartoon children.

Also, I figure someone must be doing something right, since that flood of ads recently slowed to a trickle.

[Dienekes]

GitP's very strict moderation means that instead of openly trolling and flaming, people are incredibly passive-aggressive towards each other instead, and many senior members become grandmasters at insulting other people without breaching the forum rules.

Not sure if it's an improvement.

The end result is funnier all things considered. But then, I've always found the pettiness of others amusing. Overall, people are jackasses. No matter what you do, jackasses will continue to be jackasses.

I'm more annoyed by the ludicrously strict stance on politics. It'd be nice having a conversation on slavery in Ancient Rome, or the policies of 17th century England without getting warned.

But other than that, yeah the mods are alright.

[AtlanteanTroll]

GitP's very strict moderation means that instead of openly trolling and flaming, people are incredibly passive-aggressive towards each other instead, and many senior members become grandmasters at insulting other people without breaching the forum rules.

Not sure if it's an improvement.

It most definitely isn't. And it's kind of balls that all bans are permanent.

I'm more annoyed by the ludicrously strict stance on politics. It'd be nice having a conversation on slavery in Ancient Rome, or the policies of 17th century England without getting warned.

Also this, but religion too, given some of the forum's popular homebrew projects. If OoTS itself can make reference to the Norse god Thor, why can't they? *

* This has been a rhetorical question, please do not answer, I can surmise.

[Septimus Faber]

And it's kind of balls that all bans are permanent.

I see where you're coming from, but I would have to dispute this. The Infraction system is basically there to replace temporary bans, which (to me, YMMV) give the feeling of "lol, they tried to hit me with the banhammer but they didn't have the guts to do it". Genuine cautions, that make you reconsider your behaviour, followed by a severe punishment are preferable as far as I'm concerned.

I mean, when you consider that the alternative might be the stuff you find on Bodybuilding Forums ... *shudder*

[Gwynfrid]

It is. It absolutely is. At least for me. YMMV.

I agree. Even if it gets people to adopt a passive-aggressive mode, that's better than the alternative, ie. throwing insults without even thinking. Forcing angry people to at least use a modicum of intelligence before posting is an improvement.

[Heliomance]

It most definitely isn't. And it's kind of balls that all bans are permanent.

As the saying goes; there's nothing like a properly moderated forum. And this...

[Mono Vertigo]

I don't know what I prefer between open flaming and passive-aggressiveness, but what I do know is that you're bound to face one of the two on any forum in existence (or both, in some godawful places). Because people are petty and the Internet only exacerbates that.
Also, there's the Ignore function for a reason, if the offenders' behaviour is not report-able for whatever reason.

[AtlanteanTroll]

I see where you're coming from, but I would have to dispute this. The Infraction system is basically there to replace temporary bans, which (to me, YMMV) give the feeling of "lol, they tried to hit me with the banhammer but they didn't have the guts to do it". Genuine cautions, that make you reconsider your behaviour, followed by a severe punishment are preferable as far as I'm concerned.

Fractions are just forgettable, though. And Hell, I'd be for infractions that lead to temp bans and then more infractions that could lead to a perma ban. But I guess I'm just a particularly forgiving kind of guy.

[TechnOkami]

WELL IN OTHER NEWS, I wholeheartedly agree that the active moderation of these boards directly influence the quality of its health, which is to say it's of a good quality.

[Stardrake]

The end result is funnier all things considered. But then, I've always found the pettiness of others amusing. Overall, people are jackasses. No matter what you do, jackasses will continue to be jackasses.

Or to put it another way: "Make something idiotproof and someone will just invent a better idiot."

[CWater]

I agree. Even if it gets people to adopt a passive-aggressive mode, that's better than the alternative, ie. throwing insults without even thinking. Forcing angry people to at least use a modicum of intelligence before posting is an improvement.

I agree with this.

[Skeppio]

I agree. Even if it gets people to adopt a passive-aggressive mode, that's better than the alternative, ie. throwing insults without even thinking. Forcing angry people to at least use a modicum of intelligence before posting is an improvement.

Really? I find when people need to rely on being passive-aggressive rather than being more forward, they end up having to make far more scathing insults to be as effective without breaking the rules. Which in turn results in more people finding the most hurtful, vile retorts they can think of that can still slip under the bar of what is considered harassment, often ending up far more vitriolic than their more blunt insults would have been (since they could just post those without thinking and calculating). It fosters a far more arrogant, spiteful and condescending mindset in my experience.

[Gwynfrid]

Really? I find when people need to rely on being passive-aggressive rather than being more forward, they end up having to make far more scathing insults to be as effective without breaking the rules. Which in turn results in more people finding the most hurtful, vile retorts they can think of that can still slip under the bar of what is considered harassment, often ending up far more vitriolic than their more blunt insults would have been (since they could just post those without thinking and calculating). It fosters a far more arrogant, spiteful and condescending mindset in my experience.

As others have said, YMMV. However, compare the result here (and I'm not denying it may deserve your harsh description, at times) with what happens on less strongly moderated venues with a comparable audience size. Some threads would quickly become totally unreadable, overwhelmed by insults drowning the more reasoned viewpoints until the whole thing is a barren landscape haunted by trolls. One reason I spend time here is the simple fact it is usable: Honest and friendly debate is not guaranteed, for sure, but is at least possible.

Heck, there's even a thread about firearms, of all things, and it's gone on for 5 pages without a major fight erupting!

[Asta Kask]

How many here have actually been at an unmoderated forum?

[Skeppio]

How many here have actually been at an unmoderated forum?

I have. For the most part it also didn't have usernames either. Anonymity can cause a lack of accountability, but it also put everyone on an even playing field (unlike most forums, including this one, where cliques form and certain well-known posters are treated as infallible gods).
Once you figure out how to pick out and ignore posts that are just trying to troll (easier than it sounds), it's actually not bad at all. A lot less worrying over "will this go against the popular opinion?" and "will this somehow offend a mod and get me banned?".

[Gwynfrid]

How many here have actually been at an unmoderated forum?

I recall spending time on a Magic: The Gathering forum many, many years ago - even before "moderator" became a thing. The flame wars were unbelievable. Then, there are the forums in the mainstream press: Pretty useless stuff even when people aren't insulting each other. And those are moderated, mind you, just much more lightly than here. I blame thoughtlessness: People are just firing a snarky one-liner before they think of the impact, because they don't suffer consequences.

But overall, I avoid those places due to past experience, so I can't quote much in terms of a recent experience.

[AtlanteanTroll]

So what's the difference between a moderated and a "properly" moderated forum?

[Asta Kask]

It's presumably moderated with a purpose, e.g. keep away child porn, and if it is successful in keeping child porn away with a minimum of unpleasant side effects... then it's properly moderated. In the end, I think only the Giant can say whether this forum is properly moderated. Since the moderators haven't been purged lately, we can assume that he is satisfied with them.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Yes, but that's just an arbitrary variable. I've been on a forum where the mods were a bunch of jackasses who didn't do there jobs most the time, so it's safe to say such forum wasn't "properly" moderated. But if a "properly" moderated forum is just one where they do their job, that should be most forums.

[Mx.Silver]

Also, given the sheer amount of spambots we seem to attract credit should also be giving to the mods for having to deal with that.

[Asta Kask]

Yes, but that's just an arbitrary variable. I've been on a forum where the mods were a bunch of jackasses who didn't do there jobs most the time, so it's safe to say such forum wasn't "properly" moderated. But if a "properly" moderated forum is just one where they do their job, that should be most forums.

It's not arbitrary. What other standard could there be? It's like saying that if I want to make a great cheese I should make absolutely certain that I don't measure the success by the quality of the cheese, this arbitrary standard. What the hell should I measure it by? Achieving the goals set is an excellent variable.

[AtlanteanTroll]

It's not arbitrary. What other standard could there be? It's like saying that if I want to make a great cheese I should make absolutely certain that I don't measure the success by the quality of the cheese, this arbitrary standard. What the hell should I measure it by? Achieving the goals set is an excellent variable.

That isn't what you said. You said great cheese is having cheese in the first place.

[Asta Kask]

As long as the Giant is both informed and satisfied, the place is well moderated. He's the one who sets the criteria, it's his site.