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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    warmachine's Avatar

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    Default Official Pathfinder broken spells

    One of my Pathfinder DMs is allowing all, official Pathfinder spells but, of course, reserves the right to ban or fix them if they turn out to be broken. I know some spells, such as Glitterdust, were nerfed, so the list should be manageable. So, which official spells are broken? You can suggest a fix if you like.
    Matthew Greet
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    They did nerf various spells. Yet I think the new problem spells involve power creep than anything. Most brokenness can, like 3.5e, be solved by not trying to exploit rules loopholes.

    One such spell, which I am guilty of using, is the first level cleric spell called grace. First Pathfinder nerfs tumble by making it harder to automatically succeed, then they make a level 1 spell that automatically succeeds without a roll. At full speed, in heavy armor. I think there are other such spells like this in the advanced player's guide and ultimate magic. Whether or not they're too much for your group, I cannot say. Some power creep is in line with Pathfinder's boost in general to everything which means it no longer fits the definition of power creep, but I think the later books take it a step further.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2011-11-24 at 01:26 PM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    One such spell, which I am guilty of using, is the first level cleric spell called grace. First Pathfinder nerfs tumble by making it harder to automatically succeed, then they make a level 1 spell that automatically succeeds without a roll. At full speed, in heavy armor.
    Grace is a second level cleric Spell (first level paladin) and it lasts until the end of your turn.

    That hardly seems broken. Grace, unlike tumble, has a limit to the number of times per combat you can use it.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Feat: Fire God's Blessing
    +
    Orison: Spark
    +
    Torch (Or other item(s) that can be subject to the spark spell multiple times.)
    =
    Infinite healing!

    A nifty trick for any half-orc cleric in that anytime they cast a spell with the [Fire] descriptor (i.e. spark) they may heal a target equal to half the caster's lvl. As spark is an orison capable of being cast an infinite number of times, all you need is something to burn (then put out if you're a good guy and don't want to get on Smokey's bad side) and now you never need to buy a wand of cure light wounds ever again.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Oppressive Boredom - a 2nd level spell that knocks you out of the combat for rounds/level on a successful save.
    Prestige Bard, updated for Pathfinder.

    Revamped Spell Resistance system, for use with Spell Points/Psionics.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Curious View Post
    Oppressive Boredom - a 2nd level spell that knocks you out of the combat for rounds/level on a successful save.
    You're reading that wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oppressive Boredom
    You fill your target with boredom. The target loses all interest in its current task and must make a Will save against the spell’s effect in order to perform its next action. If the target fails, it takes no action that round. The boredom lasts until the duration expires or the target breaks the spell’s effect with a successful Will save.
    So, Will negates, and the target gets to make one will save in each round that it attempts an action.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Baroncognito View Post
    You're reading that wrong.



    So, Will negates, and the target gets to make one will save in each round that it attempts an action.
    Hm, should have read it myself before going off word-of-keyboard. Thanks for the clarification.
    Prestige Bard, updated for Pathfinder.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DrowGirl

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    I have to say Solid Fog is broken, but because it's over powered but the fact that it's way too weak for its level.
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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Chained Birds View Post
    Feat: Fire God's Blessing
    +
    Orison: Spark
    +
    Torch (Or other item(s) that can be subject to the spark spell multiple times.)
    =
    Infinite healing!
    Unless your character has some kind of blood feud going against well-seasoned lumber, I don't think casting spark on a torch counts as dealing fire damage to an enemy combatant

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaakon View Post
    Unless your character has some kind of blood feud going against well-seasoned lumber, I don't think casting spark on a torch counts as dealing fire damage to an enemy combatant
    I'd hazard that the feat being considered is actually Glorious Heat.

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Baroncognito View Post
    I'd hazard that the feat being considered is actually Glorious Heat.
    Heh, two divine casters could heal the whole party out of combat with that, assuming you do not count as your own ally.
    Even with one, you can heal everyone but yourself, still pretty nice.
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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Baroncognito View Post
    Grace is a second level cleric Spell (first level paladin) and it lasts until the end of your turn.

    That hardly seems broken. Grace, unlike tumble, has a limit to the number of times per combat you can use it.
    Oops, I need to fix that. There hasn't yet been a time when my mistake would have made the slightest difference though. Even at level 2, you will still never ever run out. A typical rogue tumbles maybe once or twice per combat, if at all. A battle cleric uses it about as often and a healbot the same or maybe 1 more. And I'm being generous: so far it's come up 0 or 1 times per fight as a healbot.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2011-11-25 at 11:25 AM.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Baroncognito View Post
    I'd hazard that the feat being considered is actually Glorious Heat.
    Huh. I might recommend that feat to the cleric of Sarenrae in my party. I doubt she'll figure out the loophole to abuse it.

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Just be sure cover your ears for the squee of joy if she does.
    It would be much more balanced, though perhaps the other way, if it functioned as "the level of the spell" for the hit points regained.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
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    Imp

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Well it's hardly broken as it is. It would heal 10hp at lvl20 in exchange for a standard action. Sure, the cleric can use it infinitely but I've always advocated that the cleric shouldn't run out of basic healing spells in the same way a wizard never runs out of basic damaging spells (hence orisons and cantrips no longer have expendable slots).

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Quote Originally Posted by legomaster00156 View Post
    Huh. I might recommend that feat to the cleric of Sarenrae in my party. I doubt she'll figure out the loophole to abuse it.
    They errata'ed it. Or if not officially yet, then on the Paizo forums the makers of the game have stated they will put the fix in the next errata. Effectively, the change is now: Heal equal to Spell Level instead of 1/2 Caster Level. So, Orisons heal 0.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    They errata'ed it. Or if not officially yet, then on the Paizo forums the makers of the game have stated they will put the fix in the next errata. Effectively, the change is now: Heal equal to Spell Level instead of 1/2 Caster Level. So, Orisons heal 0.
    Meh, forcing the players to wait around for the cleric to regain spell in order to heal up is counter productive to the game flow. They should be fixing stuff that actually is broken, like the monk.

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    That's what dirt cheap wands of cure light wounds are for. And at low levels, you're supposed to actually care about mundane things. The main plot point for the beginning of one campaign I was in was disease. Even putting low level PCs aside, ending the world's problems for the low level masses via unlimited anything leads to the tippyverse. Whether actually available at level 1 or reasonably administered at will to thousands by each of the level 5 leaders.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Any clerics with unlimited healing abilities willing to apply them to general population are offset by spellcasters with equally unlimited potential to deal damage. Besides, unless you're playing E6, all universes have the potential to be tippyverses even without unlimited abilities, they're not simply because all the adventurers are out for personal glory. I have never ever gone to the slums of any city to feed or cure the less fortunate, having unlimited amounts of healing wouldn't really change that, I've got monsters to kill and princesses to save after all.

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    They're not because commoners outnumber even low level adventurers 1,000-10,000 to 1. Clerics in particular have plenty of selfless, gloryless members serving as NPCs in churches, letting others adventure. But beyond 1st-3rd level there simply aren't that many, and even level 1 clerics are under 5% of the population (I forget the exact number).

    Even at-will damage is impractical to occur for more than a few rounds, as the subject struggles a bit more than a patient being healed. At-will healing happens for hours, thousands of rounds.

    Just get a wand if you're adventuring, assuming low level slots and channeling doesn't already cover it.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2011-11-25 at 02:29 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
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    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    You're implying that out of those thousands that outnumber you, all get grievously wounded on a daily basis. Other than wars and plagues, nothing would really tax the collective spellcasters so much that they couldn't make hospitals, farmers, stonemasons etc. obsolete.

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    At level 3, and much fewer at level 5, they could not make enough food or stone to make farming and construction obsolete.

    A plague is precisely the plot point I described earlier, the crux of an entire adventure, and with the rarity of remove disease even with other common diseases you're better off getting someone to make a few heal checks than to find the only 5th level cleric per thousands of people. He has better things to do, more important people to cure, etc. The standard 150 gp fee is not unreasonable for the low supply, and those that can't pay are left out. People still get sick all the time or else have some other condition besides disease that needs fixing.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2011-11-25 at 02:59 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
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    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    I've already established that I'm not talking about low-level casters.

    And yes natural disasters and plagues could overwhelm casters but there should really be people dedicated to monitoring the environment for such things and quench disease outbreaks before they spread out, or evacuate people before a tornado ravages a town. There is no absolutely no good reason why any such things should pose a problem apart from general "human" selfishness, unlimited resources merely ensure that the machine works smoothly.

    But back to the original gist of the discussion, having unlimited healing capabilities doesn't automatically result in a tippyverse. The current clergy of the good gods should already be able to fully cover any actual healing that the people need, while not having to worry about their spell resources surely would increase their potential to heal, there simply is not enough opportunity to do so. This would only really shine in a war campaign where injuries are many and constant but even then it wouldn't make much of a difference mechanically.

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Simple solution to make sure it doesn't happen at low levels: bump up the caster level requirement on the feat to make its users that much more rare among NPCs or better yet give it a virtually but not actually unlimited number of uses per day, say 20-50.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2011-11-25 at 03:58 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
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    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Am I alone in thinking that Create Pit is really good for a second level spell?
    Thanks to Lindorm for the Ziltoid avatar.

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    2nd level reflex save-or-lose hitting 1-2 targets? And most things can't get out of it until it ends with climb DC 25. Ya that is too much for 2nd level. Especially right after they nerfed glitterdust which at least lets you fight blind.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2011-11-25 at 04:36 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Blessing of Fervor is an awesome party buff. Cleric Spell, I want to say 4th level but I think it might actually be 5th. My memory just sucks today.
    You get to choose between 1 of 4 effects, every round.
    -1 extra attack on a full round attack (doesn't stack with haste)
    -+2 bonus to AC and Reflex, I think hit rolls as well.
    -No penalty for getting up quickly
    -Free metamagic (from a list of 4 feats) for First and Second Level spells.
    It's party wide.
    If you're into Divine Metamagic and are willing to give up a Channel or two a day, I hear tell that you can have this or other buffs up pretty much constantly. I've never touched DMM so I wouldn't know.
    Last edited by Karoht; 2011-11-25 at 04:51 PM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DrowGirl

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    2nd level reflex save-or-lose hitting 1-2 targets? And most things can't get out of it until it ends with climb DC 25. Ya that is too much for 2nd level. Especially right after they nerfed glitterdust which at least lets you fight blind.
    But looses its umph once you start facing against flying creatures.
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaakon View Post
    Unless your character has some kind of blood feud going against well-seasoned lumber, I don't think casting spark on a torch counts as dealing fire damage to an enemy combatant
    So Durkon would have no problems abusing a rule like this, eh?

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    Default Re: Official Pathfinder broken spells

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    2nd level reflex save-or-lose hitting 1-2 targets? And most things can't get out of it until it ends with climb DC 25. Ya that is too much for 2nd level. Especially right after they nerfed glitterdust which at least lets you fight blind.
    Technically it's DC 20 to climb out. There's corners to brace against which lower the DC by 5.

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