General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!

[Turalisj]

Meschlum post in 3... 2...

The need was for Lunar though, I thought Meschlum only did fae?

[TheCountAlucard]

The need was for Lunar though, I thought Meschlum only did fae?

Lunars can take Fair Folk Charms.

[DrakeRaids]

These are the charms you're looking for. Canon, homebrew, lunars do trickster well.

[Sanguine]

and Lunars, possibly the only Exalt who would fit, doesn't have any charms for trickster stuff.

Actually they have quite a few. Like that charm that convinces people an object is magical. And several more out of the Manipulation and Wits trees.

Also you don't need Charms that were made for tricksters. You just need to use your abilities(I am not referring to the mechanical term) in tricksome(Damn it Firefox, it is a word!) and clever ways.

[DrakeRaids]

Actually they have quite a few. Like that charm that convinces people an object is magical. And several more out of the Manipulation tree.

Lunars manipulation tree is one of my favorite thematically, and appearances clover can't be found is absolutely hilarious.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Lunars manipulation tree is one of my favorite thematically, and appearances clover can't be found is absolutely hilarious.

Can they use the charms to say "these aren't the droids you're looking for"?

[DrakeRaids]

Can they use the charms to say "these aren't the droids you're looking for"?

Yes. Yes they can.

[Sanguine]

Lunars manipulation tree is one of my favorite thematically, and appearances clover can't be found is absolutely hilarious.

Yep it is where the Lunar Charm set really shines. Even if I am not sure how Butterfly Eyes Defense is supposed to work.

[golentan]

There are no ways to be a trickster. I like playing tricksters

I disagree. Solars, Lunars, and Dragonbloods can all be played as a trickster archetypes with assorted social charms (and knacks in the case of lunars). For example, Solars have that charm that lets them swap out faces, and some that let them "fast talk" people into believing blatantly false and self contradictory things. And Infernals with (for example) Verdant Emptiness Endowment can be played as a trickster by tricking people into wishing for things and then acting as a jackass genie, or use some ebon dragon charms.

And that's even before custom charms.

Edit: Yeah... took way too long...

[Lord Raziere]

I disagree. Solars, Lunars, and Dragonbloods can all be played as a trickster archetypes with assorted social charms (and knacks in the case of lunars). For example, Solars have that charm that lets them swap out faces, and some that let them "fast talk" people into believing blatantly false and self contradictory things. And Infernals with (for example) Verdant Emptiness Endowment can be played as a trickster by tricking people into wishing for things and then acting as a jackass genie, or use some ebon dragon charms.

explain the Ebon Dragon part, cause so far, whenever I looked at his charms, aside from his disguise charms, I didn't see where the trickster part came in.

as for fast talking into believing false things….ok….if I want to be a subtle one instead of grand illusions and such…

and I guess the Verdant Emptiness endowment could work like that. thanks

Drakeraids: *get outs another text document, and starts copying links* thank you.

[DrakeRaids]

Drakeraids: *get outs another text document, and starts copying links* thank you.

I'm here to help ^_^

[TheCountAlucard]

explain the Ebon Dragon part, cause so far, whenever I looked at his charms, aside from his disguise charms, I didn't see where the trickster part came in.

Check out Ink Monkeys. They made a whole series of Ebby Charms for this sort of thing.

"Golden Years Tarnished Black."

(shudders)

Alternatively, just use Nemesis Self Imagined Anew. It's remarkable how one can misuse complete, accurate knowledge of another person's Intimacies and Motivation.

[golentan]

For the Ebon Dragon, you can "teach people lessons" by revealing their inner demons... literally, with Inner Devils Unchained. You can shapeshift and pretend to be nearly anything or anyone you choose, even more so with Black Mirror Shintai. You can trick them into believing harmful things with Wretched Vile Lies. And you can defeat any argument by repeating it. Admittedly, you're the nasty side of the trickster archetype (since a fair number of his best Trickster guises and techniques hinge on Nemesis Self, so you have to genuinely hate someone in a spiteful way in order to mess with their heads).

Edit: And, as Alucard says, the Ebon Dragon's "Therapist" charms in ink monkeys and just the default Nemesis Self are pretty effective...

[Lord Raziere]

Even Better:

Both Cecelyne and Ebon Dragon Charms. Working in concert.

*Evil Laugh*

and now I like Fiend Caste better than Abyssals. Yea, Fiend Caste is definitely my favorite.

[meschlum]

Lamp of the Helpful Spirit

Aeons ago (well, last week) a terrifyingly powerful eldritch being was defeated over the course of a battle that lasted a full decade (the other side had cookies and it was getting dark). As noble and gracious in its surrender as it had been in battle (very few kicks to the shins were involved), this mighty force willingly abased itself before the victors (they were good cookies) and was consigned to the Lamp, from which it would only be able to escape briefly (except during the holidays) to loyally serve its masters and grant their every wish (until the game grew boring, i.e. yesterday).

Within Creation, the Lamp can be invoked by the simple expedient of its hopeful owner polishing it until it shines. The gust of smoke that emerges then asks the foolish mortal three infernally clever riddles ("What is your name? When is dinner? Will there be cookies?") and if they are answered correctly, the powers of the Lamp are granted to its new owner. Otherwise... the Lamp is hungry, and cannot be sated with a single meal - but it can certainly try.

Unfortunately, the Lamp lacks any true power over Creation, for it is but the remnant of that long ago defeated force (which went home to the Wyld and took its ball with it). Thus, its master had best take full advantage of any gifts it provides while they last, for none of them will endure for long. It is no surprise that the lamp's most successful - or at least long lived - owners have been pastry chefs and clever rogues.

Creation-level Heroic Diplomat
Lure: foolish riddle games (i.e. nigh perpetual Bedlam)
Essence 4
Cup 2
Staff 5
Birth 4
All virtues but Temperance at 5
Extinction of Desire - it's a Lamp
Veil of Glamour - that can create tangible and temporary illusions out of gossamer, including a host of minor spells via Translucent Dream Sheathing Technology
Bedlam Masterworks - and that gains gossamer by entering Bedlam (Spectacular Insanity benefits from the increased Virtues)
Oneiromantic Conjuration - or from the dreams of its master

Extinction of Desire is superfluous, and the Lamp could be a normal Raksha, but this version is more limited and vaguely more thematic.


Ring of Madness

A valiant Lunar was once lost in the depths of the Wyld, and foolishly rescued a Lord of the Raksha rather than savaging it. In return, the Lunar was persistently haunted by the insufferable being as it sought to repay its debt by creating ever greater dangers it might rescue the Lunar from. Finally confronted, the mad being was shown the truth and, unable to bear it, vanished into the Wyld leaving only the Ring behind.

The Lunar, not quite knowing why, put on the Ring and found that it was more than a part of the departed Raksha - indeed, it was the Master of Madness itself! No conflict ensued, for the fey being surrendered at every opportunity, stretching itself into a Wyld taint that the Lunar could use to create the most marvelous illusions and deceptions.

How long this might have lasted, and how powerful the Lunar might have grown, the story does not tell. Perhaps the stars conspired to see the pair undone, perhaps the Wyld madness decided its debt was paid, perhaps the Lunar was cleansed of alien presences. Creation remains, and the Ring is somewhere within it, waiting for someone to rescue.

Creation level Artisan
Essence 3
Birth 3
Assumption of the Person's Heart - the Ring is suitable to its wearer, for it is simply a manifestation of a deeper melding of Raksha and Creation-born.
Ordinary Object Conjuration - it can create anything it desires
Soul Carving Artifice - but its true art is in delving into the thoughts and desires of its owner
Translucent Dream Sheathing Technology - and bringing them forth into creation fully formed or as wavering illusions. Either way, they last no longer than is necessary, and sometimes less.
Crafter's Arsenal - even armies and storms can be brought out of nightmares into the day
Fall of Night Shadows the Truth - while details concerning the Ring and its bearer are obscured or abstracted as they desire, and they play with the memories of the mortals around them.

2 spare Charms
8 bonus points
7 bp

A somewhat more potent version - much more versatile in some ways, if slower at times to create people and less able to craft curses and blessings.


The Most Auspicious Denial of Identity and Personhood

Conceived and brought out of the Deep Wyld by a would be Raksha infiltrator, the Denial was sought and formed when said infiltrator found that the Creation-born would not accept its lies at face value. "It wasn't me who ate the souls of all these people, it was someone who looks just like me and is over there somewhere" was met with immediate attacks from the Wyld Hunt, so obviously the slaves of Creation were impossibly skilled at uncovering deception and extreme measures were called for.

The Denial is, by all reputable accounts - and most of the other as well - an absolutely excessive response to a simple problem. When cloaked with the Denial, its owner merely needs to state "I am not ..." for the statement to be accepted as absolutely true by all witnesses. If said witnesses are in the least bit sensitive to essence, they will note a virtual explosion of Wyld power with each use of the Denial, but that is not something they should worry about.

3-dot Oneiromancy
Assumption of Dreams and Passion - the Denial is a cloak that seems particularly untrustworthy.
Curse of Definition - anyone witnessing the wearer of the Denial say something is false is strictly incapable of believing otherwise.

1-dot Oneiromancy
Assumption of Dreams and Passion - the Denial looks very trustworthy.
Fall of Night Shadows the Truth - anyone trying to identify the owner of the Denial will find it extremely difficult.
Beguilement - the words of the Denial's owner are practically impossible to resist.
Untouchable Performer Technique - and once an army gets close to the owner of the Denial, they won't believe the owner could be doing anything wrong, and should just move along.

Ridiculous amounts of overkill, burns essence like there's no tomorrow, but that just makes sure that those with stronger minds will sense a disturbance in the loom. The things Fair Folk do to become more powerful than you can imagine...

[Lord Raziere]

Thanks again Meschlum. (Though I keep wondering if you ever get tired of making this stuff…..but then again I might as well ask if I'll ever get tired of making artifacts and I have my answer. *shrug*)

[TheCountAlucard]

Both Cecelyne and Ebon Dragon Charms. Working in concert.

*Evil Laugh*

'swhat one of my players did in our Infernals game.

Yea, Fiend Caste is definitely my favorite.

Those lovable Fiend Castes...

[Drascin]

I dunno if Ebon Dragon is really all that good for a trickster archetype. Most Ebby charms are too focused on the causing of misery and otherwise ruining everything. Playing a Trickster with ED charms is going to require a lot more care than playing a trickster with most other splats.

Yep it is where the Lunar Charm set really shines. Even if I am not sure how Butterfly Eyes Defense is supposed to work.

Mostly it doesn't. The whole Butterfly line is mostly busts, but Eyes Defense is the worst, as it barely does a damn thing at all.

[Weimann]

Persoanlly, I like the cheat-at-games charms Terrestrials get. Flood Of Victory Prana <3

[golentan]

Persoanlly, I like the cheat-at-games charms Terrestrials get. Flood Of Victory Prana <3

Oh, my, yes. It's only a shame that so many establishments in civilization are familiar with the technique.

[Lord Raziere]

ah, but those charms do have a use other than mere games….

in Coral, y'know theres the black casino's with first age tech that allow you to win or lose anything imaginable, emotions, years of your life, talent, health, sanity.

and there ain't no rule against betting an Exaltation. If I couldn't bet an Exaltation, I wouldn't be able to bet anything now could I? A Dragon-Blooded could probably find a Solar, challenge to him a game for his Exaltation, and use the charms to win. what would happen next is anyones guess.

of course, there is a god of gambling there, so you'd have to find a way around him, but yeah if one could bet anything, I bet an Exaltation is not off-limits. though I don't know if it breaks the unExalting rule since the person who loses the bet would not have his Exaltation anymore….

[TheCountAlucard]

and there ain't no rule against betting an Exaltation.

Oh, my, this is going to go somewhere problematic, isn't it?

If I couldn't bet an Exaltation, I wouldn't be able to bet anything now could I?

Yep - it's going somewhere problematic.

A Dragon-Blooded could probably find a Solar, challenge to him a game for his Exaltation, and use the charms to win. what would happen next is anyones guess.

Not really - there's exactly two possible outcomes. One, nothing happens. Two, the Solar dies, since an Exaltation can only depart with the owner's death, and by that logic, the Solar is effectively betting his life.

[Lord Raziere]

Oh, my, this is going to go somewhere problematic, isn't it?

Yep - it's going somewhere problematic.

Not really - there's exactly two possible outcomes. One, nothing happens. Two, the Solar dies, since an Exaltation can only depart with the owner's death, and by that logic, the Solar is effectively betting his life.

….huh, basically means Exaltation makes itself an intrinsic part of the persons life force. Interesting.

and lots of people bet their lives in the black casinos. what matters if a Solar does? its the same story, but much bigger. so yea, that makes sense.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Good luck the black casino delivering to Your angry Terrestial his winnings from said, dead now, Solar.

[Dragnar]

….huh, basically means Exaltation makes itself an intrinsic part of the persons life force. Interesting.

Exactly. In fact, the exaltation is referred to in several places (I can't name any off the top of my head, and don't have my books on me) as a sort of third soul, along with the hun and po. You cannot un-exalt a solar any more than you can rip out a normal person's soul without killing them(or at best leaving them an empty husk.)

[golentan]

Also, the Exaltation is Protective. I'm pretty sure that part of the deal is that it's jealous of sharing "its" souls with other magical constructs. In other words: No terrestrial, you can never get that Celestial exaltation. Your own exaltation will go "NO! MINE!" and prevent the shard from bonding with you. Unless you die and so unbind your own exaltation from your soul, in which case you only get to roll the dice in your next life.

TL;DR: Nothing happens or both die attempting to fulfill the bargain. Even assuming first age gaming equipment wasn't set up to detect terrestrial cheating techniques. Spoiler: I suspect it was.

[Lord Raziere]

Oh well then.

though it does give me a short story idea for a mortal who Exalts through a bet with a Solar.

[Story Time]

[...]and lots of people bet their lives in the black casinos. what matters if a Solar does? its the same story, but much bigger. so yea, that makes sense.

In the sense of placing a bet using one of Plentimon's devices I would not rule an automatic death. It would depend on the wording associated with the wagers, but I would normally judge that the Exaltation shard would switch places and be done with it. What that does to the Player's character ( or which one they are playing ) is up to the Story-teller, but I find it a fascinating plot hook for a former Exalted to no longer have their power and a desire to investigate how that difference would change them.

Given that it is First Age technology I imagine Solars could have regularly switched Exaltations forth and back.

Lamp of the Helpful Spirit
[...]
Ring of Madness
[...]
The Most Auspicious Denial of Identity and Personhood

But! Shouldn't the good guys have cookies too?

I think that I liked all three of these. The third comes a little too close to recent events, but it is also neat.

[Sanguine]

In the sense of placing a bet using one of Plentimon's devices I would not rule an automatic death. It would depend on the wording associated with the wagers, but I would normally judge that the Exaltation shard would switch places and be done with it. What that does to the Player's character ( or which one they are playing ) is up to the Story-teller, but I find it a fascinating plot hook for a former Exalted to no longer have their power and a desire to investigate how that difference would change them.

Given that it is First Age technology I imagine Solars could have regularly switched Exaltations forth and back.

Uhm, separating an Exaltation from it's host without killing them is one the three true impossibilities of the setting. The others being Time Travel and Resurrection. Well actually four as destroying one is also impossible.

[Story Time]

I do not agree. There is enough text in the Exalted manuals to suggest that removing a shard from a host is possible while also preserving the life of the previous host. If that does not fit with most others' views of the Primordial War then that is not a fault of mine, but of the manuals themselves.

Also, Sanguine's view is not wrong. It is different than mine and it is okay.