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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vixsor Lumin View Post
    Lockpicks for the Legerderman(sp?) Theif.
    Lockpicking would be gadgetry. Legerdemain is more like picking pockets or drawing a hidden item.

    Quote Originally Posted by BarroomBard View Post
    Will there be some form of parry or counter-attack rules?
    I think that's the point of getting your Fighting bonus added to the DC to hurt you in melee, provided that you're aware.
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    Lockpicking would be gadgetry. Legerdemain is more like picking pockets or drawing a hidden item.
    Oops hahaha thanks but reading this gave me an idea, what if you do something that fell under more than one skill? Like discreetly picking a lock? Would that fall under Legerdemain, Stealth, or Gadgetry? If im trying to rig the portcullis of a castle to fall at some point, while disguised as a repairman of some kind, would I need a Guile check to maintain my disguise or would they just assume that what I'm doing is what I'm supposed to be doing?

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Good questions, keep them coming!

    • Q: How often is the ability to skip using an action going to come up? A: It's probably impossible to try to list all the situations where it might come up, so I'll let the players attempt such stunts whenever they feel like it. By default, the TN is 15, but the GM (that's me in the playtest) has the right to adjust the TN if the player attempts something ridiculously difficult. We'll see how well it works that way.
    • Q: Are there things we have to spend two actions on? Does it take two to pick a lock? A: Yes. Spending both actions on your round to pick a lock sounds about right to me. Retrieving an item from your backpack also takes a full round to do.
    • Q: Does loading a crossbow count as an action? A: I'd say one action for a small crossbow, and two actions if it's big enough for military use. As a balancing factor, crossbows are easier to use and better at piercing armor, so they grant a bigger bonus on Archery checks than bows.
    • Q: Is there a way we could use our actions at the same time? A: Yes. I'll call it the coordinate meta-action for the lack of a better term. Whenever you and your ally are next to each other on the initiative track, you can coordinate your actions to occur simultaneously. For example, if you coordinate your attack actions against the same target, you both get the +4 bonus even if, technically speaking, player A posted his actions first and player B had not attacked yet. Clotheslining an opponent should work within the rules. I'd say you use your Fighting skill to make the attack with the rope, and if you succeed, the target is knocked prone and stunned, so you can easily take his weapon and/or stab him in the heart.
    • Q: ...what if you just say if the Quartermaster has it or not? A: This is how it works in the "resistance fighters" setting. Save for any ridiculously expensive gear, you get the equipment you want, but carrying too much causes Stealth&Mobility penalties, and if you're trying to talk your way past guards with your backpack full of burglary equipment, you've got to have a really good explanation. So, take what you need, but no more than is absolutely necessary.
    • Q: Will there be some form of parry or counter-attack rules? A: As Yitzi pointed out, they're already included (sort of). Of course, it could be argued that the fighting stance of an experienced fighter makes it hard to find openings, and that's what the bonus to your defense represents. I might add a parry/dodge action to the rules, so you can make a Fighting check (or two, if you use both your actions) to try to actively block the first one or two attacks that would otherwise hit you. We can use it in the playtest, and see if it feels too reduntant or not.
    • Q: ...if a Fighting check is missed by a certain amount ... your opponent gets a bonus to their next Fighting check against you? A: I'll think about it. Giving the foe another chance to kill you might be enough of a punishment, though.
    • Q: what if you do something that fell under more than one skill? Like discreetly picking a lock? Would that fall under Legerdemain, Stealth, or Gadgetry? A: A Gadgetry check would be required, of course, to determine whether you can successfully open the lock. If you're trying to open the lock while hiding in a shadow, you'd also make a Stealth check. If, on the other hand, you're standing where everyone can see you, but you're trying to disguise your activity as something else (such as pretending you have the key but the lock is jammed), it'd be a Guile check.
    • Q: If im trying to rig the portcullis of a castle to fall at some point, while disguised as a repairman of some kind, would I need a Guile check to maintain my disguise or would they just assume that what I'm doing is what I'm supposed to be doing? A: If they have ordered a repairman, and you have some kind of false ID, you'd only need a rather easy Guile check to convince you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. But if you have no ID and no-one has ever complained about a malfunctioning portcullis, it'd be a devilishly tough Guile check.
    Last edited by Kensen; 2011-12-06 at 05:40 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Actions in a tactical round

    Here's a summary of what has been discussed above about actions:

    • no action: Drop an object (carefully placing an object on the ground requires an action, though)
    • no action: Draw a small item or ammunition
    • 1 action: Attack (attacking twice causes a -4 penalty on both attacks)
    • 1 action: Move
    • 1 action: Parry
    • 1 action: Pick up an object
    • 1 action: Draw a medium or large item
    • 1 action: Load a small crossbow
    • 2 actions: Load a heavy crossbow
    • 2 actions: Pick a lock
    • 2 actions: Retrieve item from backpack


    Anything you have to spend two actions on, you can start on one round and finish it on next round.

    Comments/questions?
    Last edited by Kensen; 2011-12-06 at 06:00 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Could you update/post links in the OP to all the various parts? Thanks.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    Could you update/post links in the OP to all the various parts? Thanks.
    Yes, a good idea. I'll do that as soon as I have the time.

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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Interesting.

    What sort of magical elements are you introducing? Is the deafult setting an alternate version of earth or a new fantasy world?

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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    I think that parrying and counter attacks should only be used if you have a high fighting score. I think a TES style thing could work here. The higher your score the more abilities you have in it. Fighting starts as swinging a weapon, then to finding holes in an opponents defense, then you can counter attack. Archery you can make target specific parts of the body, arms for disarming, legs for crippling, heart for increased damage, eyes for blinding, and finally into the throat to silence and kill in one go im sure something can be figured out for the rest.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    I updated the first and second posts with things we've been discussing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Machinekng View Post
    Interesting.

    What sort of magical elements are you introducing? Is the deafult setting an alternate version of earth or a new fantasy world?
    All magic is low-key. It mostly exists in the form of magic items. Magic items tend to be bizarre (or rather, often misunderstood because no identify spells exist), and the reasons for which they were originally created are long forgotten. Magicians and magical creatures - if they exist at all - are very rare.

    It's a new fantasy world that in many ways resembles our world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vixsor Lumin View Post
    I think that parrying and counter attacks should only be used if you have a high fighting score. I think a TES style thing could work here. The higher your score the more abilities you have in it. Fighting starts as swinging a weapon, then to finding holes in an opponents defense, then you can counter attack. Archery you can make target specific parts of the body, arms for disarming, legs for crippling, heart for increased damage, eyes for blinding, and finally into the throat to silence and kill in one go im sure something can be figured out for the rest.
    I'll think about it.

    For the rules governing special attacks/targeting body parts, I'll take a purpose-oriented approach. Usually, the purpose of an attack is to kill the enemy, so that's the standard attack you can make with most weapons. If varying degrees of success have different effects, a minor success would only result in a wound, which would weaken the opponent or possibly cause the opponent flee in panic.

    Sometimes you have to capture an enemy, and in this case the purpose of the attack would be to knock the enemy unconscious. Generally speaking, blunt weapons have this special attack option. A minor success would make the target stunned.

    Sometimes you have to stop an approaching or fleeing enemy, but for one reason or another you cannot kill or knock them unconsious. In this case, the purpose of the attack is to immobilize them. A minor success would make the target slowed.

    And sometimes you are not authorized to harm the target or don't have the time to first knock them unconscious and then revive them. Or you just don't have the right weapon to kill them. That's when you use disarm.

    And so on...

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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    So... when does the play test begin?
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    We can start the playtest as soon as all relevant parts of the rules are complete enough. And I have to write the playtest scenario, of course. It'll take a few days.

    I don't know if people want to start a game right before the holidays, though. (?) But anyway, I'll post the actual recruitment thread within a few days. We can decide the starting date there.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Just make sure to PM me, as I don't really look at that forum.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Id appreciate a pm but I'll probably just check thee recruitment thread once you say its up
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Or he could just post a link to the recruitment thread here?
    I'm going to be away from a computer for the next few days, so if you put up the recruitment thread while I'm gone keep in mind I'm interested.
    So basically don't close recruitment really fast.

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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    I was looking at the equipment rules and I had a few ideas/questions: would someone intending to use gadgetry need to carry something for components? It would be similar to a casters component bag but instead of random casting materiel, it would have adhesives, nails, tools and maybe schematics. Another question, in the interest of statting weapons, what weapons are you envisioning? So far I've seen sword, dagger, sap, glaive, bow and arrow, and club. Oh and the sword cane are there any others you want to add? Spear? Halberd? War hammer? Is there gun powder?
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    At the very least, I'll post a link here. I'll probably also send a PM to everyone who's expressed interest so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vixsor Lumin View Post
    I was looking at the equipment rules and I had a few ideas/questions: would someone intending to use gadgetry need to carry something for components? It would be similar to a casters component bag but instead of random casting materiel, it would have adhesives, nails, tools and maybe schematics. Another question, in the interest of statting weapons, what weapons are you envisioning? So far I've seen sword, dagger, sap, glaive, bow and arrow, and club. Oh and the sword cane are there any others you want to add? Spear? Halberd? War hammer? Is there gun powder?
    More than anything, you'll need tools to use Gadgetry. Nails, etc. will also be useful. It really depends on what you want to accomplish. Bypassing or disarming a trap only requires some tools, but modifying or repairing a device might also require spare parts. You can always improvise if you don't have the right tools or materials, but the TN will be higher.

    For the playtest, we only need the weapons and equipment you and the guards going to use, so I won't be statting out everything just yet.

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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)


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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    What is the "brace" number some of the weapons have?

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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Brace is an old word for pair, as in, "A brace of dueling pistols."
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    I have serious doubts about it meaning a pair in this case. How would you duel wield a crossbow? I think it means you get +1 to your attack on top of the other weapon bonus, if you brace it against something. Ie laying prone, setting it on a window sill, etc.
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Sorry, I forgot to explain the term. I meant brace = support the crossbow against something so you can shoot more accurately. You get the +1 bonus on your Archery check if you spend a round to brace the crossbow against a structure. So, an arbalest (heavy crossbow) is better than a bow when you're in a good sniping position, while the bow is better is you have to fire and move each round.

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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Now that dual wielding has been mentioned, I should note that I intend to work fighting with two weapons into the rules somehow. But it's probably going to be just a small bonus to parrying (if your second weapon is a parrying dagger (also known as main gauche, which is French for left hand), for example. Or a small bonus to offset the heavy penalty on attacking twice in a round.

    Yet another thing I totally forgot to mention is that if you try to throw a melee weapon not designed for throwing, you lose the Fighting bonus on your attack roll. Conversely, a throwing knife isn't well suited for melee combat, and you get no bonus on melee attacks, defense or parrying, but a throwing knife is still sharp and pointy, and you can inflict lethal wounds with it more easily than with your bare hands.

    Speaking of bare hands, which Cieyrin asked about in the recruitment thread, currently they're a +0 melee weapon that you can only use for knocking an opponent unconscious, much like a sap/baton. Of course, once the opponent is unconscious, you can strangle him to death. Let's say it takes a full round to kill someone you've knocked unconscious. So, unarmed combat doesn't compare well with armed combat, but only in Hollywood is it a bad idea to bring a knife to a fist fight. Of course, a thug (Fighting +1) attacking Chuck Norris (Fighting +15?) with a knife is going to have his behind handed to him, but only because Chuck has spent decades of his life to master unarmed martial arts.

    Then there's garrote (strangle wire). I don't know how big a bonus I should assign to that weapon, but I'm going to give it a +2 bonus so that there's a reason to use one instead of a knife. Another benefit is that you can very easily disguise a garrote as part of your clothes or conceal it since it takes up virtually no space. The caveat is that you can only use it against an unaware opponent. If your initial attack with it fails, you're out of luck. It could be argued that the benefits outweigh the disadvantages, and I may decide to lower the bonus to +1 after the playtest.

    Thoughs, comments, questions about these rules?

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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Works for me, though I think unarmed is a really, really, unusually bad way to fight, unless you have some pretty good skills.

    I'd say ninjas, Chuck Norris, and similar martial artists, are going to have Fighting of more like 30.
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    They seem good to me, but I have little experiance with homebrew so I'm not sure if I can make a fair assesment. Wasn't there also a question about poisons?
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Ah yes, the knockout poison. The quartermaster manages to obtain a vial of knockout poison, which should be enough to affect a large man, or two smaller targets. If the target ingests a sufficient dose of the poison, he'll start experiencing mild nausea and dizziness in 1-5 minutes. A minute after the symptoms begin, the target passes into a stupor which lasts for 2-4 hours.

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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kensen View Post
    Ah yes, the knockout poison. The quartermaster manages to obtain a vial of knockout poison, which should be enough to affect a large man, or two smaller targets. If the target ingests a sufficient dose of the poison, he'll start experiencing mild nausea and dizziness in 1-5 minutes. A minute after the symptoms begin, the target passes into a stupor which lasts for 2-4 hours.
    Aw, good, good. Just gotta play off the initial symptoms as 'guess he can't handle his liquor!' and go from there. There's a reason a lot of medication tells you not to drink alcohol with it.
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    What are our movement speeds? Is it affected by Mobility? I'm thinking maybe you could try to roll for mobility to move more than your movement speed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vixsor Lumin View Post
    What are our movement speeds? Is it affected by Mobility? I'm thinking maybe you could try to roll for mobility to move more than your movement speed.
    I think you're overthinking this, as it should probably be normal speeds for people and use Mobility for when it matters, like if you outrun or lose a pursuer, etc, etc.
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    Hahaha ok I like yours better
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    Default Re: (New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

    When tactical rounds are used, your speed is 5 per action. So, if you take a "double move", you can move 10 squares. With a Mobility check you can increase your speed as per the skill description.

    I don't know if that's an elegant way to handle tactical movement, but we'll see how it works in practise.

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