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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    The skill of the commander is then based on how best to apply the outlines in the Codex and then filling in the small details with their own intelligence and resources, not working your way down a checklist and hoping for the best.

    So in many ways, it shouldn't actually be possible to think ourside the Codex - as generalisations, you should be able to find an answer for any solution, properly applied.
    Indeed. From the newest Deathwatch book: Deathwatch: First Founding:
    page 69
    While the Tyrannic War Veterans tutor others in their knowledge, they seek also to learn more about the Tyranids. It was the Codex Astartes that provided the inspiration, for had not Roboute Guilliman committed his own wisdom and inspiration to its pages so that others might learn from his example? Had not he brought the fearsome weight of his intellect to master a thousand and more styles of warfare?
    In McNeill's Rules of Engagement, Guilliman makes it clear that his writings are guidelines- not to be followed inflexibly.

    On an older topic- the subject of Devastators and Dreadnoughts in the White Scars being "unfluffy"- First Founding demonstrates that they do exist- they're just rarer:
    The White Scars are capable of fielding the full range of Adeptus Astartes resources, though it has been noted that their favoured mission profile often leads to them fielding fewer Devastators than other chapters.

    The only major point of divergence is in the fielding of Dreadnoughts. To the White Scars, the thought of spending an eternity in the ceramite sarcophagus of a Dreadnought is a horrifying notion, for they believe that the soul of the departed warrior returns to the steppes to roam there forever. Very few White Scars have ever entered service in a Dreadnought, and only in the direst of circumstances.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2011-12-05 at 02:40 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    I don't follow that white scars quote. They seem tp believe a dead guy gets to go to the eternal hunting grounds but woudn't becoming a dread be an even greater honor in the spectrum of space marine self-sacrifice? To give up an eternity of roaming for the cold trappings of duty?

    It seems weird to me that there as is such a selfish thing as fearing un-death where the SM are usually all about eternal duty.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    It does mention "the direst of circumstances".

    Duty is a major factor to space marines- but it might not be the only factor. They may consider it a "right" to choose not to be interred.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Power Armour is awesome, Astartes issue or not.
    Oh, I fully agree but Astartes issue power armour is even better.

    I remember a joke set of rules for Space Hulk in a Dragon magazine once, which was basically ballet power armour marines. With the BC, I wouldn't be surprised if they had that level of grace despite their bulk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Also, another question; How many guardsmen make it to retirement? Now, the knee-jerk reaction here is; Not many.
    I think the main point here is, 'how many are removed from active service due to retirement'. The number of guardsmen that are discharged on medical grounds (injury and the like) are probably much higher and these crippled veterans are probably the ones who do most of the propagation.

    Traditionally guardsmen casualties are always high, but casualty does not automatically mean fatality, neither does being crippled mean they're discharged (they get posted back in recruiting or training roles where their injuries are not as debilitating).
    Last edited by Brother Oni; 2011-12-05 at 04:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    How canon is Xenology nowadays? Are the ethereals still advanced eldar-engineered bees?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    It may be both canon and unreliable- with the speculations of the Inquisitor in it being somewhat iffy due to him being manipulated.

    I like Deathwatch: First Founding- but a quote in it has led me to speculate that the Iron Hands might be hereteks- people who engage in tech-heresy- based on an earlier Dark Heresy quote:

    These two quotes from FFG books led me to raise the question:

    Dark Heresy: Disciples of the Dark Gods- page 44
    The Proteus Protocol:
    Considered little more than a myth by many but the ultimate goal of an obsessed few, the Proteus Protocol is an ancient and heretical technology for transferring not only the engrammatic knowledge and memory of an organic brain, but also the personality and will, granting in effect complete mental and spiritual immortality in an artifical physical form. Of the few legends that surround this tech, some state that the abominations created are soulless beings with dark desires and alien hungers that can never be satiated. However, these warnings often fail to deter the Protocol's most ardent seekers.
    Deathwatch: First Founding- page 9
    The greatest of all Iron Fathers was Paullian Blantar of the Kaargul Clan Company. This inspirational figure embodied every one of the Chapter's teachings, from the utter certainty that Ferrus Manus would one day return, to the hatred of all that is of the flesh. Blantar flayed his own body of the flesh he was born into, until eventually, only his mind remained. This was implanted into the towering frame of a mighty Dreadnought, and some say that in so doing his very soul was ex-loaded into the machine's systems so that not a scrap of biological matter remained. Blantar serves as a permanent member of the Chapter Council, having transcended the limits of his flesh and effectively attained immortality.
    So- is it plausible that Blantar used the Proteus Protocol to upload knowledge, memory, personality and will, into an artificial form? The "some say" bit raises the possibility that it didn't happen- that there's still flesh in there. Still- interesting possibility.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2011-12-05 at 05:24 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Quote Originally Posted by GolemsVoice View Post
    Dawn of War Dark Crusade, and apparently, Deathwatch, the RPG, which I haven't read, but I'll take hamishspence's word on this one. You'll not that the RPGs are considered a good source of 40K information by most of the people in this thread.

    Bonus points, though, for you failing to realize that Exterminatus isn't something the Imperium is doing for fun, but because it's neccessary. Habitable planets are rare as hell, and the Imperium isn't going to sacrifice them just because somebody had a bad day. They are serious about this.
    Since we're using Dawn of War Material, I may as well point out Gabriel Angelos ordered the Exterminatus of his own home planet after a single short visit, so yes, a bad day for one person is more than enough to a full planet to be wiped out.

    Also I point out to the Krieg planet, that saw rebels siege nuclear weapons and turn the planet in a wasteland, and the IoM administration's reaction during the whole process was basically "we don't really care about you".

    Quote Originally Posted by GolemsVoice View Post
    And again, you claim to love the senseless violence of 40K, but the Imperium exterminating planets is somehow "bad"? Or the Tau are utopian nice guys is cool and ok, while a Space Marine actually talking sense is boring and unneccesary?
    I never said the Tau were more entertaining than the IoM. They make an excellent contrast in the 40K millenium, but I wouldn't bother reading about a seting where there's only Taus and a very ocasional rebel like Farsight, while the IoM, even when left to itself, provides plenty of entertaining conflict.

    Seriously, leave SM whitout a big enemy for too long, and they'll gladly turn against each other and the other organizations of the IoM whitout fail!


    Quote Originally Posted by GolemsVoice View Post
    But since we're doing challenges, what about Commander Farsight, who ran away with a sept of Tau? Seems like living in an ideal society wasn't enough for him, and something drove him into exile? Care to explain why somebody that should, as a commander, benefit the most from the caste system of the Tau turn his back on them?
    -Necrons did it (actually fits perfectly with the new fluff since wardcrons are bats*** insane and would perfectly do it for the evulz).
    -Farsight is simply crazy, simple as that. It's not like half the tau generals decided to turn against the ethereals like a certain other faction's leaders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Borgh View Post
    To summarize the Tau/IoM debate as i see it:
    The tau are 1984-inspired (re: re-education programs ect.) communists (know your place or "disappear") where the IoM are more bad-Colonial age (execute those who don't comply) Nazis (xenopobic and genocidal) with a side order of Paranoia.
    Ah, thanks, that's a pretty good summarization! And I think we all know that some evils are unquestionably worst than others.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2011-12-05 at 05:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    - Necrons did it (actually fits perfectly with the new fluff since wardcrons are bats*** insane and would perfectly do it for the evulz).
    -Farsight is simply crazy, simple as that. It's not like half the tau generals decided to turn against the ethereals like a certain other faction's leaders.
    The third option is that Farsight somehow discovered that his entire race have been turned into Eldar puppets, and has escaped servitude in order to instigate a rebellion of some sort.

    How he did that, I don't know, but it explains a few things: Why he's stayed near Tau space instead of disappearing into the distant depths of the next Segmentum, why Shadowsun has made such direct attempts to discredit and 'usurp' him, why his disappearence coincided with the death of his Ethereal (suspicious death, perhaps?)... And so on.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Ah, thanks, that's a pretty good summarization! And I think we all know that some evils are unquestionably worst than others.
    ...

    Have you actually read 1984? I'm not so sure "Mindrape all those who oppose you" is better than "exterminate all who oppose you".

    And given how little we have to go on as far as Gabriel's actions go... It's quite possible what he saw justified the action.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    The Imperium and the Tau are by nature decentralized to the point, individual planets and such mostly run themselves without outside interference.
    Last edited by Talkkno; 2011-12-05 at 06:22 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Funny enough, all this means that of all the civilisations in the 40K universe, Eldars are most likely the least evil of them if we base this on the gouverments treatment of its own citizens.

    The third option is that Farsight somehow discovered that his entire race have been turned into Eldar puppets, and has escaped servitude in order to instigate a rebellion of some sort.
    Really?, i didnt think there had been any official contact between craftworld Eldars and Tau.
    At least i could find no mentioning of such thing in the current Tau codex, and according to the map they lies in opposite sides of the galaxy.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    FReally?, i didnt think there had been any official contact between craftworld Eldars and Tau.
    At least i could find no mentioning of such thing in the current Tau codex, and according to the map they lies in opposite sides of the galaxy.
    Thanks to the webway, the galaxy can easily be crossed within the span of the a week or so. (Rogue Trader)
    Last edited by Talkkno; 2011-12-05 at 06:28 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    -Necrons did it (actually fits perfectly with the new fluff since wardcrons are bats*** insane and would perfectly do it for the evulz).
    Except that Farsight was developed before the new Necron fluff.

    Also I point out to the Krieg planet, that saw rebels siege nuclear weapons and turn the planet in a wasteland, and the IoM administration's reaction during the whole process was basically "we don't really care about you".
    And that was the rebels doing it. And I quote Lexicanum:
    Eventually, the Autocrats also began to resent the influence of the Administratum on the planet that they considered to be their own.
    So it's not like the Administratum didn't care, it's that the Autocrats tried to throw it out.

    And again: the galaxy is FREAKING big, so big that entire planets have to be used just to store and compute data. The administratum are probably doing a good job, given their circumstances. After all, they have to manage a million worlds, each different, while the lords sector, lords sub-sector and planetary governors all do their own thing, while often possessing sizeable military forces. The Adeptus Mechanicus also doesn't like to be bothered, and the Adeptus Astartes do whatever the hell they want.
    On top of all this, communication and travel is slow and unreliable. How good do you think modern governments would manage?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Funny enough, all this means that of all the civilisations in the 40K universe, Eldars are most likely the least evil of them if we base this on the gouverments treatment of its own citizens.
    You mean the bit where 100% of the civilian population is handed a lagun and paper armour (by Eldar standards) and sent into meatgrinder so that 'proper' warriors could do their job?

    Or maybe the part where 10 billion sentients dead is deemed acceptable price for a dozen Eldar alive?

    ...

    Also, regarding Tau: Deatchwatch: Mark of the Xenos states the Ethereal manipulation isn't psychic in nature (Blanks don't work) but it does exist, as one Tau commander memoirs written in first person say once their last Ethereal died, the whole cadre went just as mad as their ancestors 6000 years ago, and the only thing that kept them from shooting themselves was a tiny bit of commander's training, as he fad to force them (and himself) to shoot enemy instead.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    You mean the bit where 100% of the civilian population is handed a lagun and paper armour (by Eldar standards) and sent into meatgrinder so that 'proper' warriors could do their job?
    .
    Err. Gaurdains are all former aspect warriors to one degree or another, and thus are all volunteers at any rate and they only deployed during absolute emergencies, heck no one even is even forced to fight even when their craftworld is being invaded. (Path of the Warrior and Seer)

    And it was explicit noted in Path of the Seer if thats the incident you are referring to, was hardly a meatgrinder, they held their defensive positions and retreated when they no longer tenable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    Or maybe the part where 10 billion sentients dead is deemed acceptable price for a dozen Eldar alive?
    Exaggeration, we have also have incidents where Eldhrad laments the fact he has to purge a human world to prevent the Nercons from waking up. imploring the infinity circuit "is their any other way"

    We also see in Path of the Seer where the main character hesitates when killing civilians and later those nightmares of their incident plague her later on.

    Let's not forget the blurb in the Eldar Codex where it was described an Eldar Pirate lord simply moved the entire human population from a maiden world to nearby inhabitable moon, protecting them until they had the strength to defend themselves.
    Last edited by Talkkno; 2011-12-05 at 10:17 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Indeed. From the newest Deathwatch book: Deathwatch: First Founding
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    I like Deathwatch: First Founding
    Help me out then, please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I do not currently have Deathwatch; First Founding. If anyone is able to list me the Chapter-specific Wargear found in it (and for what Chapter), that would be extremely great.

    Note; I do not want rules. I just want to know what the Wargear is and/or what it looks like. I also assume that being one of the Iron Hands requires you to lose a hand (or two, since you're a Veteran in the Deathwatch). I assume.
    Currently I'm putting together my Deathwatch-based Command Squad and Stern-/Wolf Guard models. Nearly all of them have Combi-Meltas (most are weilding one-handed);

    The following is tactics, fluff and modelling all together, and since I'm here...
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    Black Templar; Chain-with-Chainsword (Witchbane), Tabard.

    Black Templar the second; Helbrecht. Already has Combi-Melta. Recently released in Finecast. Easy cuts.

    Blood Angel; Death Company model, SG backpack (Wings of Sarnoth), and Octavio's Burden [pictures are incredibly helpful]. Probably will only ever get used as a Vanguard Sergeant or attached to Skyclaws. Neither of which I'll probably ever use. But it's a nice model.

    Blood Angel the second (Apothecary); Corbulo. Sawed off left arm and Chalice of Vision. Lots of plastic bits glued on [Blood Drop Pendant and Golden Icons].

    Dark Angel; Due to Deathwing-ness, I put him in Terminator Armour with Cyclone Missile Launcher (for WG only ). DA stats (+BS/Int) also suggest a Devastator/Backline-directive role. GS Robes and Power Sword/Storm Bolter.

    Dark Angel the second; Robes and Sword-Backpack. No picture for Furious Vengeance, which is kind of annoying.

    Space Wolf; Use all the best bits from the Grey Hunter box, slap on a Deathwatch pad and you're done. No helmet (+Renown, as well as all the natural abilities SWs can do if they don't wear a helmet).

    Ultramarine (Sergeant, seriously, Ultramarines get cranky if they're not in charge...And everyone else gets sick of their complaining about not being in charge); U-pad from Commander box, Leather skirt (Cingulum), the trick with Dire Avenger crests for helmet [Helm of Varthion]. Pointy-finger from Devastators.

    Imperial Fist (Techmarine). One of the older metal models with plastic arm-swaps and pins in his hands if I want to swap out his Combi-Melta to a regular Boltgun so he can be a real MoTF. His Power Axe is still around, but I'm unsure what to do with it.

    [I felt Iron Hands' Techmarine was too obvious. So I didn't make him the squad Techmarine. Similarly too obvious, the Salamander will not be carrying around the second Heavy Flamer.]

    Imperial Fist the second (Lysander/Arjac); Under Codex Marines, Lysander loves Sternguard, so why not paint him up as Deathwatch too, and Arjac is an upgraded Wolf Guard so why not paint up the same model? Shield-arm swap so I can get a Deathwatch pad on there. Lysander's shield is still IF colour scheme [Duty's End].

    Storm Warden; Kor'Sarro model (including the fur cape and claymore), Left shoulder pad has been cut off at the elbow. All remaining symbols on the actual Kor'Sarro body (inc. right shoulderpad) have just been painted blue. Head swap for Champion-helmet, since it looks better. Pretty sure the Storm Wardens were based on Kor'Sarro, or maybe the model is just perfect by coincidence?


    As everyone can see, I'm trying particularly hard at this. Considering doing an entire battlegroup (inb4 Trixie, I'm fully aware of my previous stance, don't mention it, it was at least a year ago, things change), since Rites of Battle effectively makes Deathwatch like Black Templars. In that there are an awful lot of them (including Chaplains, Terminators and Dreadnoughts), just not all in one spot, although it's possible that a lot of them can show up at once.

    Anyway, I need about 10-15 of them, probably more if I start that Kantor army that I've always wanted to do. I've got a couple more ideas (Soul Drinkers, given the amount of Chalices and wings I can see on BA pads...), but I could really, really, really use the stuff in First Founding.

    Elsewise, does anybody else have any ideas? Modelling or Chapter-specific aesthetics? I still don't have an idea for a Deathwatch Librarian (pg 114 RoB is Gandalf-ing it up with Stave and Sword, that's pretty cool). I've got Ezekiel in front of me, but his left shoulder pad is metal and like pretty hardcast (I don't know the word I'm looking for?) into the mould and would be a PitA to cut off (and I would probably ruin the model even if I did) so he's out. Feel free to post ideas to me PM.
    I don't know, it's a complicated issue, being fluff, tactics and modelling all at the same time, so I'd hate to slow down any threads. Hopefully no-one will mind if you do post in-thread anyway.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2011-12-06 at 03:00 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Chapter specific wargear:

    Weapons
    Angelus Bolter (Blood Angels) (see Codex Blood Angels for appearance
    Gilded Boltgun (Ultramarines)- not depicted but described as "dazzling"
    Hellfire Flamer (Deathwatch) not shown
    "Raven Pattern" Shotgun (Raven Guard)- has a "long black muzzle" attached reducing flash and sound
    Surtur's Breath (Salamanders) heavier, more bulky flamer
    Artificer Omnissian Axe (Deathwatch) not shown
    Chogoris Lightning Blade (White Scars)- "dazzling silver power sword with a jagged blade crafted in the shape of a lightning bolt"
    Cruciform of the Crusade (Deathwatch) eight foot stone cross, two handed, used like a thunder hammer- not a powerfield weapon
    Duelling Tulwar (White Scars) "short, curved blade" - not a powerfield weapon
    Glaive Encarmine (see Codex Blood Angels for appearance)
    Honour Blades (Ultramarines) see Codex Space Marines honour guard squad
    The Needle of Truth (Dark Angels) "finely crafted power sword"
    Power Lance (White Scars) - see depictions of White Scars bikers
    The Righteous Fist (Deathwatch) - "a massive and pitted powerfist"
    Rune Staff (Space Wolves) - see Space Wolves codex
    The Shadow in the Sky (Raven Guard) "A long, curved power sword like the talon of a bird"
    Shard of Bekrin (Deathwatch) "broken power sword" "Remarkably, the weapon still hums with power though half its length is gone"

    Armour
    Great Wolf Pelt (Space Wolves) "large even for a Space Marine, trailing behind them and hanging over their armour like a tide of fur"
    Salamanders Mantle (Salamanders) "scaled cloak"
    Mantle of the Fallen Wolf (Space Wolves) a wolf pelt passed from a previous owner who died defeating a greater daemon

    Wargear
    Artificer Bionics (Iron Hands) not shown
    Astartes Omni-Tool (Deathwatch) not shown
    Blood Chalice (Blood Angels) see codex Blood Angels for appearance
    Blood of Heroes (Blood Angels) not shown
    Death Mask (Blood Angels) see codex Blood Angels for appearance
    Digital Housing (Iron Hands) digital weapon in cybernetic limb, can be laser, melta or flamer
    Exsanguinator (Blood Angels) see codex Blood Angels for appearance
    First Company Relic (Ultramarines) "small, rent piece of armour"
    The Glorious Standard (Deathwatch) "a complex pattern of images and heraldry, from the Horus Heresy through the first clashes with the Tyranids to their current exploits, such as supporting the Achillus Crusade"
    The Heart of Iron (Iron Hands) "worn under armour, it looks not unlike a mechanical spider wrapped around a Battle Brother's chest"
    Pain Glove (Imperial Fists) not shown
    Promethean's Blessing (Salamanders) "inverse heat sink, which uses the excess power generated by the motor of a chain blade of the charge of a power weapon to project flame along its edge"
    Recoil Baffling (Iron Hands) "compensation servos and suspensor cushions" for semi-auto and full auto weapons
    The Magnir Runes (Space Wolves) "small stones inscribed with the signature runes of a Space Wolf Rune Priest"
    Standard of Fortitude (Dark Angels) "emblazoned with the icons of the chapter and stained with the blood of heroes"
    Suppression Stabiliser (Deathwatch) (heavy bolter and boltgun upgrade - not shown)
    Totem of Subetai (White Scars) "long staff adorned with a beast skull and a knot of coarse hair"
    Weapon Charm (Dark Angels) "sometimes adorn their weapons with fetishes, birth feathers and charms"
    Winged Jump Pack (Blood Angels) see Codex Blood Angels for appearance
    Wings of the Raven (Raven Guard)- "With long, curved air intakes and oversized thrusters, this jet-black artifact is significantly more powerful than a standard jump pack"

    Chapter Trappings
    Chieftain Trophy Rack (White Scars)
    Icon of the Iron Cage (Imperial Fists) talisman worn on power armour to remind them of the strength and unity they showed
    Wolf Tooth Necklace (Space Wolves) -cord with several teeth and a couple of stones with runes, all have holes in and rings through the holes holding them to the cord

    EDIT:
    and yes- the Iron Hands do lose one hand - replace left hand with Exceptional craftsmanship bionic hand.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Really?, i didnt think there had been any official contact between craftworld Eldars and Tau.
    At least i could find no mentioning of such thing in the current Tau codex,
    To be honest, there is virtually nothing more to the story than "Farsight's Ethereal died, he carried on fighting the Orks and never came back".
    At some point it was decided by the Aun'va that he had founded his own fortified colonies out in the Damocles Gulf, but since he had cut off communication with the Empire before that happened it's not explained how anyone knows this.

    As far as the Players are concerned, any of the above theories could be true or none of them.
    We don't know who Farsight has been in contact with - or even if, historically, he's even alive. Even that the Dawnblade is an Eldar weapon is just conjecture; all the Codex says is that it was found 'on a dead world', in the 'pre-human' ruins of an 'unknown' enemy (which suggests Necron as much as it does Eldar).

    and according to the map they lies in opposite sides of the galaxy.
    I'll take your word for that one - last I knew, Iyanden was right on Tau's Galactic doorstep, and Alaitoc wasn't incredibly far away from that.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Yeah. While the old Eldar homeworlds are pretty much opposite the Tau Empire, maps of the various paths taken by the craftworlds show that they have really been all over.

    Like on this one:
    Spoiler
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    Where Iyanden flies straight through Tau space.
    Last edited by Mark Hall; 2011-12-06 at 07:58 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    I think he may have confused it with the Tau's alleged "father" species, those weird bees from which the eldar "made" the ethereals, and how theyve been kept purposefully separate from the Tau to avoid them finding out about their origins. It does beg the question of what purpose could the Tau serve for the Eldar :S

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    No idea. I mean, I know what I would do, if I were them: use the mind control glands to make the Tau worship the Eldar. But that doesn't seem to be the plan.

    Given their power of precognition, I suppose they are building up the Tau to hold off some future threat to the Galaxy. Using them to counter chaos or necrons, most likely. (Both theories have some likelihood to them: Tau are relatively resistant to corruption, making them rather useful against chaos. And there is a theory floating around that they are actually re-built Necrontyr, sharing the lack of warp signature and the short lifespan on a brutal world).
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    No idea. I mean, I know what I would do, if I were them: use the mind control glands to make the Tau worship the Eldar. But that doesn't seem to be the plan.

    Given their power of precognition, I suppose they are building up the Tau to hold off some future threat to the Galaxy. Using them to counter chaos or necrons, most likely. (Both theories have some likelihood to them: Tau are relatively resistant to corruption, making them rather useful against chaos. And there is a theory floating around that they are actually re-built Necrontyr, sharing the lack of warp signature and the short lifespan on a brutal world).
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    The third option is that Farsight somehow discovered that his entire race have been turned into Eldar puppets, and has escaped servitude in order to instigate a rebellion of some sort.
    That would be the Eldar's fault, not the Tau.


    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Have you actually read 1984? I'm not so sure "Mindrape all those who oppose you" is better than "exterminate all who oppose you".
    {{scrubbed}}

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    And given how little we have to go on as far as Gabriel's actions go... It's quite possible what he saw justified the action.
    Irrelevant. The main point is that the IoM is a place where an important dude can phone the Exterminatus department, point them to a planet of their own side, and the planet will get blown up whitout many questions asked. Billions of lifes wasted because a single person tought them unworthy to live.

    Quote Originally Posted by Golemsvoice View Post
    Except that Farsight was developed before the new Necron fluff.
    It also fits with the old fluff. The Deceiver was around by those times. Seems like people never bothered to actually read the old necron codex before praising the new one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Golemsvoice View Post
    And that was the rebels doing it. And I quote Lexicanum:
    No, please, let me quote it first:

    Much of Krieg quickly fell to the rebels except for Hive Ferrograd which came under the command of the now infamous Colonel Jurten of the Krieg 83rd Imperial Guard. Under strict orders to not let Krieg fall but with the promise that no fleet on the scale that was needed to invade a planet was available, Jurten decided that Krieg would either belong to the Emperor or to no one.


    Ladies and gentlemens, here's your typical IG colonel. Who cares about killing billions of your own people as long as you please the rotting corpse in the other side of the galaxy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Golemsvoice View Post
    So it's not like the Administratum didn't care, it's that the Autocrats tried to throw it out.
    Considering the Administratum teaches their officers to butcher their own citizens at every turn, they didn't have much of a choice. Jurten would find an excuse for blowing his own planet up sooner or later thanks to his IoM teachings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Golemsvoice View Post
    And again: the galaxy is FREAKING big, so big that entire planets have to be used just to store and compute data. The administratum are probably doing a good job, given their circumstances. After all, they have to manage a million worlds, each different, while the lords sector, lords sub-sector and planetary governors all do their own thing, while often possessing sizeable military forces. The Adeptus Mechanicus also doesn't like to be bothered, and the Adeptus Astartes do whatever the hell they want.
    So remind me, who developed the system where the departments that are suposed to offer suport answer to no one? Managing a million worlds may be hard, but managing a thousand chapters and Mars should be relatively simple. That's Adnministratum incopetence at its finest, pure and simple.

    This is, what's the point of sacrificing hundreds of childrens for each SM if they can't even be properly pointed to the right direction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Golemsvoice View Post
    On top of all this, communication and travel is slow and unreliable. How good do you think modern governments would manage?
    Clearly they should adopt tau tech. Slower, but 100% warp-free!

    Or they could do what modern governments do. Open up contests to develop new solutions, instead of 10.000 year old decay only interrupted by finding even older tech prints.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Given their power of precognition, I suppose they are building up the Tau to hold off some future threat to the Galaxy. Using them to counter chaos or necrons, most likely. (Both theories have some likelihood to them: Tau are relatively resistant to corruption, making them rather useful against chaos. And there is a theory floating around that they are actually re-built Necrontyr, sharing the lack of warp signature and the short lifespan on a brutal world).
    I highly doubt that because nothing in the eldar fluff sugest they may be trying to manipulate the tau. Meanwhile, it would be about time some race evolved to be naturally resistant to chaos. Orks seem to actually be quite corruption-resistant, but they aren't exactly very diplomatic
    Last edited by Mark Hall; 2011-12-06 at 08:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Irrelevant. The main point is that the IoM is a place where an important dude can phone the Exterminatus department, point them to a planet of their own side, and the planet will get blown up whitout many questions asked. Billions of lifes wasted because a single person tought them unworthy to live.
    Questions are always asked afterward. And if the grounds were not sufficient, the person responsible is likely to be declared Excommunicate Traitoris and a price put on their head.

    In fact, one of the most respected of Inquisitors, (Kryptmaan) was excommunicated precisely because he was destroying planets with what the Inquisition considered insufficient justification.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Have you actually readed about WW II? Becauze the bad guys in there weren't just "exterminate all who oppose you". The bad guys in there would exterminate whoever they tought wasn't fit to live, regardless of them being helping or not, and by the end of the war were sending children against tanks while feeding cyanid pills to their own families. That's the scale of horror the IoM deals on. At least in 1984 you get to survive if you play your part.
    Yeah. I know what the Nazis (and certain parts of Japan) did. The Party is just as evil, it's just smarter about going about it. They don't have some sort of stupid racial dogma inhibiting them from taking advantage of useful human beings. Why throw millions into a deathcamp when you can mindrape them into soldiers? Why use child soldiers when you can raise them to be fanatically loyal to you (Because they'll be much more effective soldiers in their teens, after all)? Why throw a dissenter into a deathcamp when you can break his mind so completely he'll denounce his former beliefs (and you can always assassinate him a few years later once everyone's forgotten about them)?

    The Party doesn't pull stuff the Nazis did not because they're better, but because they don't need to. They still throw away people they don't need, they just extract every last bit of usefulness out of them first.


    Irrelevant. The main point is that the IoM is a place where an important dude can phone the Exterminatus department, point them to a planet of their own side, and the planet will get blown up whitout many questions asked. Billions of lifes wasted because a single person tought them unworthy to live.
    Considering what a demon world is like, sometimes you need to make those tough calls. Morally correct? No. But as far as the WH40K universe goes, the end justifies the means, and preventing the creation of a demon world justifies the sacrifice of a planet in the long run, from a purely rational point of view (A planet going Demon world is going to kill all those people anyway... Actually, it may not. But let me assure you, they'll wish it had. And then the demons start affecting nearby worlds...)

    *snipped for lack of comment*

    No, please, let me quote it first:

    Much of Krieg quickly fell to the rebels except for Hive Ferrograd which came under the command of the now infamous Colonel Jurten of the Krieg 83rd Imperial Guard. Under strict orders to not let Krieg fall but with the promise that no fleet on the scale that was needed to invade a planet was available, Jurten decided that Krieg would either belong to the Emperor or to no one.


    Ladies and gentlemens, here's your typical IG colonel. Who cares about killing billions of your own people as long as you please the rotting corpse in the other side of the galaxy?

    Considering the Administratum teaches their officers to butcher their own citizens at every turn, they didn't have much of a choice. Jurten would find an excuse for blowing his own planet up sooner or later thanks to his IoM teachings.
    And you know he's typical how, exactly?

    So remind me, who developed the system where the departments that are suposed to offer suport answer to no one? Managing a million worlds may be hard, but managing a thousand chapters and Mars should be relatively simple. That's Adnministratum incopetence at its finest, pure and simple.
    The Ultramarine's primarch. Why? Because of what happened when the entire Imperium was interconnected. A couple of bad apples were able to corrupt half the Imperial military, and the galaxy nearly ended up with a 5th Chaos God (which would have been the end of all hope for life everywhere, let me assure you)

    This is, what's the point of sacrificing hundreds of childrens for each SM if they can't even be properly pointed to the right direction? I have no idea where you're going with that one

    Clearly they should adopt tau tech. Slower, but 100% warp-free!
    Not practical. The Tau, as we've said, are small potatoes. They have a small piece of the galaxy to run. The Imperium cannot afford the delays the Tau's technology would cause at the scale it operates
    Or they could do what modern governments do. Open up contests to develop new solutions, instead of 10.000 year old decay only interrupted by finding even older tech prints.
    The technology humanity had during the Dark Age was rivaled only by that possessed by the Eldar and the Necrons. Finding a complete STC database would allow the imperium to conquer the entire galaxy. Finding it (both so you have access to this ubertech, and other people don't) Is pretty darn important.

    And humanity doesn't have the luxary of being warp-resistant; You do that sort of stuff, you're going to get a lot of designs that look great, but end up doing something horrible like summoning a demon. Or worse.


    I highly doubt that because nothing in the eldar fluff sugest they may be trying to manipulate the tau. Meanwhile, it would be about time some race evolved to be naturally resistant to chaos. Orks seem to actually be quite corruption-resistant, but they aren't exactly very diplomatic
    Partially correct. Corrupted Orks do exist, but all possession means to them is they can now argue with themselves. And, if you remember the Necron codex, the Orks are not a naturally evolved species (The Old Ones had a big hand in their creation)
    My comments in bold.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    I think he may have confused it with the Tau's alleged "father" species, those weird bees from which the eldar "made" the ethereals, and how theyve been kept purposefully separate from the Tau to avoid them finding out about their origins. It does beg the question of what purpose could the Tau serve for the Eldar :S
    Isnt this moving into the territory of epilectic tree's now?
    Are there even any actualy evidence on the tau being made by anybody?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Minor point: As far as I can find, the new necron codex has no connection to the Krork anymore.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    Quote Originally Posted by Borgh View Post
    Minor point: As far as I can find, the new necron codex has no connection to the Krork anymore.
    I could be wrong, of course, but I'm would think that fluff from older codexes is still canon unless it is contradicted by newer ones.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS

    That is the general principle followed by most of the fandom.

    I've seen it argued that while the Sensei from the 1e Realms of Chaos books are portrayed as only a very deluded Tzeentch cult in 3e- that bit was an Inquisitor's assessment- so may not be entirely reliable.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    By that standard, most of the fluff is someone's assessment and not very reliable, though.

    Which actually, it is. Nevermind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
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