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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Kind of puts me in mind of the Mentors Chapter, though twisted around a little.

    There would be a difference, in that the Mentors loan their squads out to other Chapters so as to be able to learn different tactics and battle plans and collect them together for their own reference. They basically go out, watch how the Space Wolves work in a battle, then pick out the bits that seemed to work best and use it in the future.

    This new Chapter would kind of be the reverse - they get loaned stuff by the Ordos Xenos, test it out on the battlefield, and then report back on what happened for the greater good of researching new weapons rather than tactics.
    I really like those Mentors the xeno chapter can be based on their geneseed and it makes it awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    That might work - an entire Chapter specially trained for using radical new weapons in major conflicts, using conventional support teams to get the job done when it all goes wrong. Mechanically you'd probably just use Codex: Space Marines and take other Marine Codices as Allies in order to represent the R&D squads that carried your 'experimental weapons'.
    Can that be done mechanically? I've been out of the loop for several editions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Deathwatch rarely operate with more than 10 Marines in any given operation. Including Captain, Librarian and an Apothecary.

    For reference, in the largest xeno incursion to date, the 3rd War for Armageddon, only 20 Deathwatch Marines were stationed in the entire system.
    Agreed I probably won't go with Deathwatch, after reading the fluff of Mentors I really like them. I will probably go with white and red for their colors. Painting all their tanks in red because red runz fazter or at least when facing orkz. (That shouldn't have any game effect mechanically but it could be fun on fluff)

    The idea is for them to be something akin to warbands hunting xenos and studying their tactics and their weapons salvaging some of them. They might be on the line of heresy, but probably the ordo xenos extremist would see their utility and keep them.

    I have troubles making them use tyranids other than for tactics, and tactics are not a great thing on tyranids (or tyranid tactics are hard to implement with space marines). And as far as I know necrons are really hard/almost impossible to salvage, or they were in past editions I am not up to date with necrons fluff.

    On the other hand how would the adeptus mechanicus see such a chapter? They are probably not happy about it, but said chapter would need a great deal of technomarines, any idea?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by God Imperror View Post
    Can that be done mechanically? I've been out of the loop for several editions
    As far as Xenos are concerned, your best Allies are Eldar and Tau. So, make use of that in your fluff/modelling so it makes sense when you do use Allies.

    The idea is for them to be something akin to warbands hunting xenos and studying their tactics and their weapons salvaging some of them.
    Your best bet for something like that is probably running Scouts and Sternguard. Double bonus because Sternguard are essentially Deathwatch. So if you want to paint up a DW Squad it will still fit in your army list.

    I have troubles making them use tyranids other than for tactics, and tactics are not a great thing on tyranids (or tyranid tactics are hard to implement with space marines).
    Shrike can give your army Fleet. So you could take a whole bunch of Combat/Shotgun Scouts (Hormagaunts/Termagants) and have them run up the board. Whilst Shrike Infiltrates a squad of Terminators (Genestealers) in the middle. It's terrible on the table. But you could do it.

    Otherwise going with a Librarian with Biomancy or Telepathy could be done too. But Biomancy isn't good for Marines. Alternatively you could Ally with Blood Angels and take Mephiston.

    On the other hand how would the adeptus mechanicus see such a chapter?
    Techno-Heretics. Nothing less. The only way you get around that is by having strong ties to the Inquisition that prevent you from being purged. It's unlikely that you would have traditional Techmarines, as anyone from your Chapter that gets sent to Mars (that's where the red armour comes from), is likely to be shunned or executed.

    Ultimately, to do what you're doing, you'll need strong ties to the Inquisition and probably Deathwatch resources.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Anybody got any interesting fluff on the Flawless Host?

    I'm thinking of starting a chaos Warband

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear
    Techno-Heretics. Nothing less.
    I know that the numbers were talking are unprecedented, but this is one of the reasons as to why I suggested Deathwatch. Their mandate is to capture xenos tech and give it to the Mechanicus in order to reverse engineer it - this is how the Imperium ended up with the C'Tan Phase Sword and such.

    An alternative is to go completely the other way - this new Chapter could have been created FOR the Ad.Mech. in order to do just this. Let's say they have inordinately strong ties to Mars - like the Iron Hands - and their determined role (in the same way that the Space Sharks and Minotaurs were 'designed' to fight other Marines, perhaps) is to perform high-level testing of soon-to-be-released weapons and equipment on the battle field and then report back on how well or poorly it went.

    It'd look a lot better if your force was led by a Master of the Forge or Xenos Inquisitor, just for the flavour of the thing, but there's no more reason that a Chapter couldn't be unexpectedly trusted by the Ad.Mech, than one could be trusted by the Grey Knights (as with the Exorcist Chapter) and the likes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darius Macab View Post
    Anybody got any interesting fluff on the Flawless Host?

    I'm thinking of starting a chaos Warband

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    There's a little bit available on the Lexicanum. They don't seem to be particularly well known or used, sadly.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2012-09-12 at 01:54 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    As far as Xenos are concerned, your best Allies are Eldar and Tau. So, make use of that in your fluff/modelling so it makes sense when you do use Allies.
    I would probably modify space marines (or scouts) with spar parts from eldar or tau regiments for weapons even if they are called allies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Your best bet for something like that is probably running Scouts and Sternguard. Double bonus because Sternguard are essentially Deathwatch. So if you want to paint up a DW Squad it will still fit in your army list.
    I will probably paint a DW squad, all with the shoulder insignia of the chapter, and the sternguard are going to have the silvered left arm typical to the death watch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Techno-Heretics. Nothing less. The only way you get around that is by having strong ties to the Inquisition that prevent you from being purged. It's unlikely that you would have traditional Techmarines, as anyone from your Chapter that gets sent to Mars (that's where the red armour comes from), is likely to be shunned or executed.

    Ultimately, to do what you're doing, you'll need strong ties to the Inquisition and probably Deathwatch resources.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I know that the numbers were talking are unprecedented, but this is one of the reasons as to why I suggested Deathwatch. Their mandate is to capture xenos tech and give it to the Mechanicus in order to reverse engineer it - this is how the Imperium ended up with the C'Tan Phase Sword and such.

    An alternative is to go completely the other way - this new Chapter could have been created FOR the Ad.Mech. in order to do just this. Let's say they have inordinately strong ties to Mars - like the Iron Hands - and their determined role (in the same way that the Space Sharks and Minotaurs were 'designed' to fight other Marines, perhaps) is to perform high-level testing of soon-to-be-released weapons and equipment on the battle field and then report back on how well or poorly it went.

    It'd look a lot better if your force was led by a Master of the Forge or Xenos Inquisitor, just for the flavour of the thing, but there's no more reason that a Chapter couldn't be unexpectedly trusted by the Ad.Mech, than one could be trusted by the Grey Knights (as with the Exorcist Chapter) and the likes.
    Yes both the adeptus mechanicus and the ordo xenos use alien technology, so having strong ties with both organism are probably a good way to go. Since the chapter will need a great deal of techmarines to keep all the alien technology functioning being led by forge masters is not unthinkable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darius Macab View Post
    Anybody got any interesting fluff on the Flawless Host?

    I'm thinking of starting a chaos Warband

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    There is a bit more on the wiki
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Going to pitch Rogue Trader (the RPG) to some friends. How do I describe it without referring to other franchises?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
    Going to pitch Rogue Trader (the RPG) to some friends. How do I describe it without referring to other franchises?
    Pirates, in space. It depends what style of game you want to run. Although, I'm fairly certain Space Pirates is accurate way of selling the game. The only issue I've found with RT is how the party copes with who is and who isn't the lead Rogue Trader.

    Zorg can fill you in far better than I can. My games of choice are Dark Heresy and Deathwatch. With Rogue Trader having a sort of middle ground that doesn't quite sit well with my group.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Yup, Pirates/Merchant Marine on Steroids, with a fair bit of colonization going on, only with less diplomacy and niceness, and more with selling the 41. millenium's equivalent of glass baubles to unsuspecting natives.
    Si non confectus, non reficiat.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    if by "Glass Baubles" you mean "The wrong end of a Laspistol", then I wholeheartedly agree.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    I'm actually in a PBP game of Rogue Trader at the moment. We're actually the high-ranking agents of an Inquisitor rather than Rogue Traders, since we've got games of Dark Heresy and Deathwatch that we're running alongside.

    It's definitely a system tied quite securely to the assumptions that you will both have a ship and be trying to make a profit. 'Space pirates' is probably the best way to sell the idea to folks.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Acanous View Post
    if by "Glass Baubles" you mean "The wrong end of a Laspistol", then I wholeheartedly agree.
    Rogue Trader is not Dark Heresy with a different name. Very rarely should you be taking things from locals through threat of violence.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by GolemsVoice View Post
    Yup, Pirates/Merchant MarineCorsairs on Steroids, with a fair bit of colonization going on, only with less diplomacy and niceness, and more with selling the 41. millenium's equivalent of glass baubles to unsuspecting natives.
    Fixed. Pirates don't have a written contract with a distant government to do their job. Rogue Traders do.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2012-09-14 at 06:14 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Fixed. Pirates don't have a written contract with a distant government to do their job. Rogue Traders do.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Perhaps even space CONQUISTADORS? Pirates implies your primary income source is raiding other ships.
    Last edited by shadow_archmagi; 2012-09-14 at 06:51 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Rogue Trader is not Dark Heresy with a different name. Very rarely should you be taking things from locals through threat of violence.
    If by "Very Rarely" you mean "whenever the opportunity presents itself", you've got my gaming group pegged.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    I figured RTs work along the lines of "whatever the situation requires" or "whatever I can get away with". This can range from smoking the peace pipe with aliens to burning down their village and taking whatever.

    There likely are noble conquistadores, bringing the Emperor's light to the stars, there are merchantmen, just trying to get rich, and there are cruel men and women just bend on haing fun. From what I read, which admittedly isn't much, they seem to be a rather sordid and dishonest lot, in general. At least those that don't just fly along established traderout. Breaking the law, by smuggling, for example, is more or less expected.
    Last edited by GolemsVoice; 2012-09-14 at 07:20 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by GolemsVoice View Post
    I figured RTs work along the lines of "whatever the situation requires" or "whatever I can get away with". This can range from smoking the peace pipe with aliens to burning down their village and taking whatever.

    There likely are noble conquistadores, bringing the Emperor's light to the stars, there are merchantmen, just trying to get rich, and there are cruel men and women just bend on haing fun. From what I read, which admittedly isn't much, they seem to be a rather sordid and dishonest lot, in general. At least those that don't just fly along established traderout. Breaking the law, by smuggling, for example, is more or less expected.
    I think I may just have to use this as my pitch, actually. Just follow it up with "What will YOU choose?"
    Last edited by shadow_archmagi; 2012-09-14 at 07:30 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    I feel honored

    You may include the disclaimer that the game expects that only one (or noone) will play the RT, and all others will be his officers and friends. It might be a problem for some players, the huge difference in power.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by GolemsVoice View Post
    I feel honored

    You may include the disclaimer that the game expects that only one (or noone) will play the RT, and all others will be his officers and friends. It might be a problem for some players, the huge difference in power.
    To be fair, given the feudal nature of 40k, pretty much the entire command crew is enveloped in the bubble of power, as I understand it. If someone shows up on your doorstep and says "I speak with the authority of Captain Killcrazy!" you better treat them as well as you would the captain himself.

    The fact that one player is undeniably In Charge could cause disputes, but in most groups I've been in there's always one player with Strong Ideas who brings everyone else around to his way of thinking and is the party leader unofficially.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Sure, I just mentioned it. For example, I know, with my players, it wouldn't be a problem, too, because we have a good dynamic and work well together.

    And of course, the party as a whole is far more powerful than the entire REST of the crew. And they have some leverage against the RT, too. After all, you're playing the guy who controls ALL the security force, or ALL the machine-priests, and so on.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by GolemsVoice View Post
    I figured RTs work along the lines of "whatever the situation requires" or "whatever I can get away with". This can range from smoking the peace pipe with aliens to burning down their village and taking whatever.

    There likely are noble conquistadores, bringing the Emperor's light to the stars, there are merchantmen, just trying to get rich, and there are cruel men and women just bend on haing fun. From what I read, which admittedly isn't much, they seem to be a rather sordid and dishonest lot, in general. At least those that don't just fly along established traderout. Breaking the law, by smuggling, for example, is more or less expected.
    Yes, they'll try to bend or outright break rules here and then for extra profit, but in the end Rogue Traders still want to be seen in the good side of the Imperium by showing themselves useful to the bigger government.

    If they're out there "just to have fun", they won't remain Rogue Traders for long. The Imperium is willing to accept some rule breaking here and there, as long as they get a slice of your profits or you're doing some heavy/dirty work for them. If you're however simply burning and wasting everything you find whitout any tribute to the authorities, then you're simply declared a pirate and be shot to bits the next time you meet a Navy Fleet/Crusading Chapter.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2012-09-14 at 09:18 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
    Going to pitch Rogue Trader (the RPG) to some friends. How do I describe it without referring to other franchises?
    Here's a primer I made for my game. It explains the 40k universe and the character classes for people with next to no knowledge of the universe.

    I also have some related stuff on my blog.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    To be fair, given the feudal nature of 40k, pretty much the entire command crew is enveloped in the bubble of power, as I understand it. If someone shows up on your doorstep and says "I speak with the authority of Captain Killcrazy!" you better treat them as well as you would the captain himself.

    The fact that one player is undeniably In Charge could cause disputes, but in most groups I've been in there's always one player with Strong Ideas who brings everyone else around to his way of thinking and is the party leader unofficially.
    That pretty much describes all the characters, though. The Rogue Trader himself might have the most social power and authority, but he has to be nice to the Navigator or else his profit margins go in the toilet because his ship won't fly anywhere. If he upsets the Astropath, he can't talk to anyone. Mistreating his Seneschal will have no effect right up until he realizes his entire fortune has been embezzled and his ship sold to Ork scrap traders. Annoying the Missionary could result in his own crew turning against him, irritating the Explorator could get his own ship turning against him, and if he abuses the Arch-Militant too much, they can just shoot him. You're unlikely to have all of these in one party, but the heavily specialized nature of each career in both social and mechanical aptitudes means the Rogue Trader can't stomp all over the other players IC or OOC without risking career-ending retribution if he pushes it too far.
    Sure, I just mentioned it. For example, I know, with my players, it wouldn't be a problem, too, because we have a good dynamic and work well together.

    And of course, the party as a whole is far more powerful than the entire REST of the crew. And they have some leverage against the RT, too. After all, you're playing the guy who controls ALL the security force, or ALL the machine-priests, and so on.
    Exactly.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-09-14 at 09:23 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    If they're out there "just to have fun", they won't remain Rogue Traders for long. The Imperium is willing to accept some rule breaking here and there, as long as they get a slice of your profits or you're doing some heavy/dirty work for them. If you're however simply burning and wasting everything you find whitout any tribute to the authorities, then you're simply declared a pirate and be shot to bits the next time you meet a Navy Fleet/Crusading Chapter.
    Well, unless they do their joyriding outside of Imperial space. I don't think the Inquisition will ever *know* if you recreate Death Race 2000 on Endor.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
    Well, unless they do their joyriding outside of Imperial space. I don't think the Inquisition will ever *know* if you recreate Death Race 2000 on Endor.
    If you don't bring some kind of shinies to justify your long "absence", they'll burn you whetever you recreated Death Race 2000 or were just seeing how many alien females you could bang. Idleness is the start of heresy after all (aka if you're not being useful to us, we'll kill you and replace you with someone more motivated, plenty in line waiting for a Rogue Trader license).
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2012-09-14 at 09:32 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Also, a lot of old RTs have more money than they can spend in twenty lifetimes. But many of them try.
    Si non confectus, non reficiat.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    If you don't bring some kind of shinies to justify your long "absence", they'll burn you whetever you recreated Death Race 2000 or were just seeing how many alien females you could bang. Idleness is the start of heresy after all (aka if you're not being useful to us, we'll kill you and replace you with someone more motivated, plenty in line waiting for a Rogue Trader license).
    Warrants of trade aren't that easy to give or take away, even in 40K. It's more like a grant of nobility than a contract of shared profit, crossed with a bit of privateering. The Trader is given or purchases his warrant, then goes off to do whatever the hell he wants, the general idea being huge gobs of money are his motivation to spread the Imperial Creed to feral savages, hunt aliens, and whatnot. If he actually starts committing (traceable) piracy or xeno-heresy in Imperial space, he'll get his warrant taken away, but not turning a profit isn't by itself grounds for the bureaucracy or Inquisition to go after him....and it usually takes the Inquisition, since a Rogue Trader's Warrant lets him ask for or do pretty much anything he wants that he thinks he can get away with if someone complains later.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    The way I understood it is that the Imperium goes "If you find anything that is of high interest to us, like an advanced alien species, you'll tell us, yes? Also, spread some Imperial creed, do that for us, will you?" and the RT going "Yes, yes, yes." while both sides know that the RT will do whatever he pleases. But as long as it isn't too obvious, he get's ignored. Or he simply doesn't get caught, like in Dan Abnett's novels, where they often only get found out decades after they begun their serious crimes.

    Also, RTs are powerful, both individually and as a whole, or at least, they can be. Threaten them enough, and they'll bunch together, and you'll encounter a well oiled machine of silence and mutual protection. Or they simply run away to Emperor-knows-where. Boldly going where no man has gone before is basically their job description.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Yeah, you seem to be under the impression that RTs are kept on a pretty short leash and carefully watched. I'm pretty sure the base book has examples of rogue traders that just vanish for years at a time and nobody thinks anything of it.

    It's not like they have to pay rent on their titles.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    The expansion book on law and order covers this nicely - it explains that outside of Imperial space, a Rogue Trader is the embodiment of the Imperium and all its laws and power. So they are completely without restraint, until they return to Imperial space that is.

    Warrants often have conditions attached to them, such as having to fight for the Navy when called, or being obliged to notify the Ecclesiarchy of human worlds for reclemation etc. This is covered in the core rules.

    I told my players they can do whatever they want, but if they start collecting alien artifacts a little too openly they might find an Inquisitor waiting back at port. Of course they don't have to return, but repairing their ship or replacing valuable things like Astropaths or Navigators will be mighty hard without it.

    In my eyes the only thing not turning a profit hurts is the Rogue Trader's own house. The Imperium doesn't have to supply or give anything to a Rogue Trader for free after their warrant is minted and they have their ship.
    I have the Imperium treat them like the various colonial corporations (East India Company etc): they don't care what they do for the most part so long as it doesn't create bigger headaches for everyone back home.
    I have the various houses all creating their own mini-empires out there, but anything they dig up needs to be sold back home, so the Imperium gets a slice from their taxes and is happy.
    My long term plan for my campaign is to have the Imperium slowly expanding into the Koronus Expanse, pushing the Rogue Traders further rimward and absorbing their claims, delineating the point where Imperial Space starts and ends.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Speaking of RT, has shadow_archmagi seen Zorg's excellent newspapers?

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