Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

[Squark]

You're missing the command staff (Captains, the Command Squad, and the Chaplain), the dreadnaughts, the Chapter Master himself (And maybe his honor guard, I'm not sure whether or not those guys are part of the 1st company, or outside it), the fleet personnel (The majority of which is chapter serfs, but commanding officers and a handful of other important duties on Space Marine crafts are handled by actual Space Marines) and whoever it is who drives the vehicles (By the way; Is the job of driving the APCs, IFVs, and Tanks done by generic Marines, Techmarines, or chapter serfs?). Also, the tenth company has no set numbers, so fleet based chapters and the Ultramarines (who recruit from seven worlds) tend to have well over 100 neophytes in their 10th company.

So, If I had to guess, I'd say a full strength chapter is actually closer to about thirteen hundred marines.

[Hawkfrost000]

So, If I had to guess, I'd say a full strength chapter is actually closer to about thirteen hundred marines.

According to this article, the entire Ultramarine legion is around 1500 space marines, but it is mostly guesswork.

DM

[Cheesegear]

How many does that make in total including extras like Techmarines, librarians and Apothecaries?

There is no fixed number.

Am I missing any other kinds of specialist Space Marines?

I think Squark covered most of them.

whoever it is who drives the vehicles (By the way; Is the job of driving the APCs, IFVs, and Tanks done by generic Marines, Techmarines, or chapter serfs?

Driving into battle and being responsible for the lives of others would never be left to serfs.

Tank drivers are part of The Armoury Staff.
For a long time, tank gunners were painted with red armour, and certainly they have the Mechanicus symbol on their right shoulder, indicating that they are Techmarines - a current example is in the Black Templars Codex.

However, like painting Librarians blue-and-yellow, Apothecaries white, and even Techmarines red, GW has largely stopped caring. So tank crew can be whatever colour you want which could mean anything. Certainly, Chronus is part of the Armoury (but 'Sergeants' are not listed in the Chapter Organisation table, in fact, neither are vehicle crew at all), but he appears to be a 'normal' Marine (i.e; Painted blue).

[Brother Oni]

According to this article, the entire Ultramarine legion is around 1500 space marines, but it is mostly guesswork.

Well Chapter, rather than Legion, but those numbers look reasonable.

Do people think that using modern (post WW2) combat arms to support staff ratios would be a reasonable approximation of personnel in a Chapter? Depending on the period and military, these range from 1:1 up to 10:1 support:combat.

Note that support includes chapter serfs, bondsmen, servitors and other marines that don't (or shouldn't) have a frontline role like Apothecaries.

Edit: I forget, have SM Lieutenants disappeared from landspeeder crews?

[Cheesegear]

Edit: I forget, have SM Lieutenants disappeared from landspeeder crews?

As far as game mechanics go, yes. Fluffwise, no. Land Speeder squads are still Assault Marines and they do have Sergeants.

[shadow_archmagi]

I seem to recall there being an offshoot of Explorators who preferred subtle augmentations, so that they could move relatively unobtrusively and pass for regular humans. Can't remember what they're called though. Can anyone-?

[Cheesegear]

I seem to recall there being an offshoot of Explorators who preferred subtle augmentations, so that they could move relatively unobtrusively and pass for regular humans. Can't remember what they're called though. Can anyone-?

I can't seem to find any references. It could be something that Zorg made up in one of those newsletters?

I don't see why they would be special though. It would just be someone that doesn't get face or skull metal and wears gloves and stuff.

[Tome]

I seem to recall there being an offshoot of Explorators who preferred subtle augmentations, so that they could move relatively unobtrusively and pass for regular humans. Can't remember what they're called though. Can anyone-?

There was an infiltrator-assassin version of that concept in the Dark Heresy RPG book Lathe Worlds, I think.

The Titanicus novel also featured a guy doing that in a more diplomatic style.

[Hazzardevil]

I can't seem to find any references. It could be something that Zorg made up in one of those newsletters?

I don't see why they would be special though. It would just be someone that doesn't get face or skull metal and wears gloves and stuff.

I remember that being mentioned as part of the rogue trader core book, but I can't remember anything being in hostile acquisitions. This is the only expansion for rogue trader I have read.

[shadow_archmagi]

I'm combing all my resources and I've found a post on /tg/ that references sneaky techpriests, and talked to some of my friends who say that it definitely sounds like something they've read, but I can't actually find a source for it.

[Zorg]

It could be something that Zorg made up in one of those newsletters?

WHO DARES SUMMON ME?

*ahem* it quite possibly is an idea I expanded on in my RT primer (I called them Explorator Errants), which I drew on from the charater mentioned by Tome in Titanicus and I think there's a similar minor character in one of the Cain books. Priest of Mars has the Linya Tychon, who also somewhat fits the bill.

[Squark]

So, for those of you who don't follow Steam regularly, Space Marine, and all DLC related to it, is 75% off for the week.

A question to anyone who has it- a) How modifiable is the DLC chapter Armor (Specifically, if I pay the $0.24 for the Space Wolf and Black Templar armor, do I have to run arround as a blood claw, or can I make I change the right Shoulder Pad to have a Grey Hunter or Long Fang pack marking)? and b) If not, are Shoulder pad options for the default armor available for Logan Grimnar's Great Company and/or Space Wolf Pack markings?

[Cheesegear]

A question to anyone who has it- a) How modifiable is the DLC chapter Armor

Zero. That may be why it's so cheap.

If not, are Shoulder pad options for the default armor available for Logan Grimnar's Great Company and/or Space Wolf Pack markings?

There are no shoulder pad options. You're a Blood Claw, Blackmane's Company.


ION;
What colour are the Imperial Navy uniforms? There's the Officer of the Fleet in the Imperial Guard book, but that's all I can find, as pretty much every other picture I find is in greyscale.
Or do IN uniforms vary between Segmentums?

[GolemsVoice]

I think they vary, but from what I've read, white for higher officers, and blue or grey for lower ranks.

[hamishspence]

Blue seems to be the default colour- in the Deathwatch splatbooks, an Admiral and a Commodore are both seen in blue uniforms.

The cover of Execution Hour shows what might be Captain Semper- also in blue.

[shadow_archmagi]

The Navy characters depicted in Rogue Trader both wear blue as well. It's worth noting that neither of them is an Admiral, though.

[GolemsVoice]

I think one of the Eisenhorn novels mentions a white uniform for the full dress uniform for officers.

[Borgh]

And I'm fairly sure its green in the Calpurnia books but this apparently is specific to the segementum.

[Cheesegear]

Blue seems to be the default colour- in the Deathwatch splatbooks, an Admiral and a Commodore are both seen in blue uniforms.

The Navy characters depicted in Rogue Trader both wear blue as well. It's worth noting that neither of them is an Admiral, though.

Page/Book references - if you've got them? I can't seem to find either of the ones you're talking about. So either I don't have the books you're talking about, or I'm not recognising particular individuals as the Navy.

[shadow_archmagi]

Page/Book references - if you've got them? I can't seem to find either of the ones you're talking about. So either I don't have the books you're talking about, or I'm not recognising particular individuals as the Navy.

Commander Larius Sans, Into The Storm 242. Naval Officer in charge of Port Wander.

Commodore Teodor Naremmus, Hostile Acquisitions 91. Naval Officer in charge of Patrol "Retaliator"

[hamishspence]

Page/Book references - if you've got them? I can't seem to find either of the ones you're talking about. So either I don't have the books you're talking about, or I'm not recognising particular individuals as the Navy.

Deathwatch: The Achilius Assault book- in the back are pics of the Commodore of the Emperor-class battleship Belial, and Admiral Anastasia Arkelius.

[GolemsVoice]

Also, if you search for Imperial Navy 40K in google, the models/images all have blue uniforms (if they have colors, that is)

[shadow_archmagi]

what makes a heretek?

I'm not exactly clear on where the techpriests draw the line. I know that they're okay with variations, since every system seems to have its own gun patterns (IE: Calixis-Pattern bolters are different from Obscura-Pattern bolters)

I know they're okay with innovation, because Explorator Research Outposts are one of the basic settlement types of the Imperium (albiet a less common one.) Plus you do occasionally hear about a Magos who invented something cool.

So where exactly are the lines between Hereteks and Techpriests drawn? Is it entirely a philosophical difference, with Hereteks being those who reject the divinity of the machine? Is it based on rank? (So an Archmagos could design a new plasma rifle, but for a lowly enginseer to do so would be hubris?) Is it based on the nature of the changes made?

The Rogue Trader RPG includes a modification for plasma weapons that spreads out the plasma and makes them into super-flamers, and the modification is described as being highly illegal and proscribed by the AdMech, such that players will have to seek out a heretek to modify their weapons if they want plasma flamers. So apparently sawn-off rifles are heresy, but I can't see any overarching methodology to what is and isn't legal.

[Trixie]

IMHO, it can be summed as single sentence:

YOU WILL ONLY EVER USE HOLY STC TECHNOLOGY.

It can be bent to a degree, that is, if modification is minor, or no one sees it, you're relatively safe, but if you have genuine modification or found piece of old STC, you have to surrender it to scrutiny of high layers of priesthood, and hope the politics don't sink the found (of "found") the example and it will be added to STC canon. Radical Techpriests bend it to further degree, with Puritans you better pray your petition has ©Terra year 2XXXX in there somewhere.

[Cheesegear]

what makes a heretek?

Mostly it means that you keep knowledge and/or inventions to yourself instead of handing it up to your betters for them to take credit for it. Essentially the AdMech is in nominal control of all technology new and old, and if somebody wants it, they have to grovel to the AdMech because the machines are clearly superior.

Being a Heretek means keeping knowledge to yourself, and/or building it for others without permission. The latter is where most of the problems lie. What do you mean you turned a Plasma weapon into a fission-powered Flamethrower? We didn't say you could do that!

It's kind of similar to any setting where weapons and/or firearms are prohibited for the public.

It's a long-standing fallacy that the Imperium doesn't invent anything. Except that they do - all the time - and the AdMech keeps it for themselves unless a galactic superpower (like the Astartes) tells them to give it.

[GolemsVoice]

Also, straightforward stuff like combining sorcery and science, or researching the forbidden branches, like true artificial intelligence.

[Squark]

Also, I believe the Ad mech gets really touchy when non-inducted members start messing around with things (Like, say, the Predator Annhilator, although they eventually realized that was actually supposed to be an option).

[shadow_archmagi]

So then, for my Explorator to be declared a heretek, he's essentially going to have to both invent something new and fail to present properly it to a higher authority, and that higher authority has to be unsympathetic.


So theoretically an Explorator character who first rose to the rank of Magos would have more or less free reign, and his only worry would be doing so much science that his peers got jealous.

[GolemsVoice]

I think once you're a magos, YOU'RE doing the condemning. Well, unless you show up with your newest deamonmachine and go all "look you guyz!"

[Cheesegear]

So then, for my Explorator to be declared a heretek, he's essentially going to have to both invent something new and fail to present properly it to a higher authority, and that higher authority has to be unsympathetic.

If it was me, and I was going Heretek on purpose...

I'd bring my new-fangled invention to my peers and be all like "Look what I made." then when I draw up the STC to make it for everyone, I design plans to make a bomb that actually blows up in their face, and when it does, I steal all their stuff.

Then me and my Rogue Trader pal fly off into the Halo Stars screaming "NO-ONE CAN HAVE IT BUT ME!!! BAHAHAHAHA!"