Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

[Cheesegear]

Am I mistaken in the reckoning that Ravenor and company were active during the former time and Cain and company during the latter time? What is the canon, if any, period of the Dark Heresy line?

Ciaphas Cain is alive for the 13th Black Crusade, and at that point he was over 200 years old. Cain's life apparently goes ~750.M41-025.M42, 'Cain lived about a quarter century into the forty second millenium'. That may or may not be truth. But he was at the 13th Crusade, and he was really old at the time.

Eisenhorn was born in 198.M41. He is still alive ~500.M41. As Pariah takes place a few decades after Ravenor which was in the early 400s.

The Sabbat Crusade (Gaunt's Ghosts) takes place in the tail end of 700c.M41

There is no canon time period of the 40KRPGs, unless you take the canon time of the setting as a whole which is 999.M41, or very early M42. Pick a century you want to live in.


ION;
Got the Advent Bundle from Black Library. I shouldn't regret it.

[shadow_archmagi]

Actually, the Rogue Trader line explicitly declares itself to begin in 816.M41

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ff...-low%20res.pdf

Since Dark Heresy is meant to be compatible, presumably it starts in the same or possibly slightly earlier.

[Cheesegear]

Actually, the Rogue Trader line explicitly declares itself to begin in 816.M41

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ff...-low%20res.pdf

Interested in the link, I went to see if Dark Heresy had something similar.

It does.

[shadow_archmagi]

It seems odd to me that they'd place the setting a few hundred years before the "present" of 40k. Maybe so GMs can work in whatever events are going on? I guess if your RT game lasts a few hundred years (Which it could, RTs being effectively immortal) you could even get involved in the next Black Crusade!

[Wraith]

Makes sense to me, in that GW has spent so much effort in maintaining the status quo in the current galaxy.

They can't have any heroic tales of glory and success happening *now* because that implies that, in the current canon, the Imperium is succeeding or in some way improving.
At least this way, if something good happened 600 years ago (ie, Ravenor's successes in Rogue), they can enjoy a 'heroic' story and then, for the purposes of the current plot, safely say that it took all that for things to work out THIS well (or, more likely, that something horrible has happened in the mean time to balance it out).

[Cheesegear]

Maybe so GMs can work in whatever events are going on? I guess if your RT game lasts a few hundred years (Which it could, RTs being effectively immortal) you could even get involved in the next Black Crusade!

I took a page from Shadowrun. And I think we can all learn a thing or two from Shadowrun.

A timeline presents opportunities for adventures. Particularly the vague one-sentence events that sound awesome that you can base an entire campaign on. My favourite one-sentence event is "The Tyrant Star appears." That's the only sentence you get. But for a GM making an adventure, it's the only sentence they need.

More importantly, if there are major events in the timeline that you want, and the GM and/or players know about the event that is about to take place, they can have an active role in it (i.e; The aforementioned Black Crusades, in M41 alone there are two!).

[Brother Oni]

I guess if your RT game lasts a few hundred years (Which it could, RTs being effectively immortal) you could even get involved in the next Black Crusade!

Not to mention fuzzy timey-wimey happenings with large amounts of warp travel. Even ignoring the extreme events, normal warp travel is specifically mentioned to have an odd time dilation effect (you spending a couple months travelling in the warp, but up to a year has passed in real time).

[shadow_archmagi]

My favourite one-sentence event is "The Tyrant Star appears." That's the only sentence you get.

Actually, the Tyrant Star warrants many sentences in the Dark Heresy book. I think it gets something like a page.

[Hazzardevil]

Can someone please explain to me what the subtitle for this thread means?

And also, how expendable are storm troopers supposed to be compared to the rest of the Imperial Guard? Because in my mind they are not going to last much longer than other guardsmen so they would hardly be an efficent use of resources when training.

This brings me to wonder, will guardsmen loot each others weapons when they die in the field? Because a stormtroopers hotshot lasgun must seem like a wonderful weapon in the field compared to a standard one.

[Squark]

1) Matt Ward is the writer for the Grey knights, Codex Marines, Blood Angels, and Necrons codex. If you hang around other parts of the 40k community, you've probably heard rants about the fluff in the books and the mechanical imbalances.

2) Storm Troopers do tend to survive longer than they do on the tabletop in the fluff because they're used more for jobs that suit their talents instead of on the open battlefield, and the tabletop is overly lethal in general.

3) Recovering weapons is something to be commended. Using said weapons is a bit more questionable, and can get a guardsman executed under a few specific circumstances (Usually involving taking an officer's weapon). Keeping the weapons is right out, though.

[Hazzardevil]

1. I know him, just didn't notice the name, I thought it had something to do with Storm Wardens.

2. So stormtroopers are specilists who will ambush the enemy or take out specific targets?

3. Taking your dead officers fancy sword and gun to give back to high command is a good thing and keeping it for yourself is bad? This is of course based on what regiment your in, it says in the uplifting guide that some regiments allow the looting of pistols to keep as a side-arm and some don't.

[t209]

3) Recovering weapons is something to be commended. Using said weapons is a bit more questionable, and can get a guardsman executed under a few specific circumstances (Usually involving taking an officer's weapon). Keeping the weapons is right out, though.

Grim Dark Logistics, baby! When a man with a rifle dies, another man picks up a rifle and shoot (Enemy at the Gates)? It was also used by Valhallan Army when they are short on laser rifles.

[Squark]

It mainly depends on the weapon- taking over for the heavy weapons team is fine. Borrowing a wounded officer's power weapon... less so. And in general, dieing valiantly while using said weapon tends to improve the brass's opinion of your action.

[GolemsVoice]

Yep. Success needs no explanation. Failure deserves none. If you pick up a weapon and valiantly fight (and die, for bonus points) with it, you're a cool guy. If you just take it, especially if it's something fancy, they'll shoot you for looting.

But in general, anything more expensive than a lasgun, especially plasma weapons, are rare, so bringing it back might earn you brownie points with the Adeptus Mechanicus.

[t209]

Yep. Success needs no explanation. Failure deserves none. If you pick up a weapon and valiantly fight (and die, for bonus points) with it, you're a cool guy. If you just take it, especially if it's something fancy, they'll shoot you for looting.

But in general, anything more expensive than a lasgun, especially plasma weapons, are rare, so bringing it back might earn you brownie points with the Adeptus Mechanicus.

And one thing! Plasma weapons can go boom!

[Cheesegear]

And also, how expendable are storm troopers supposed to be compared to the rest of the Imperial Guard?

A Stormtrooper is the next-best thing to a Space Marine. The best humanity has to offer without resorting to abhuman genetic nonsense. They are kind of a big deal. Before Ward, the Inquisition used to train buckets of them. Remember when Inquisitorial Stormtroopers were a thing?

Like Space Marines, Stormtroopers aren't for front-line combat. They're for destabilising the enemy or dropping markers for bombardment.

[positivespace]

Stormtroopers are the guys from schola progenium who were too good at killing things to be put anywhere else, if that gives you any clue as to just how damn good they are.

Also, from what I've read of genestealers, it seems that someone given the 'genestealer kiss' isn't actually dangerous unless they're allowed to reproduce or stay with the genestealer?

And how would something like an ork or an eldar (who reproduce via spores and IDK, respectively) or a space marine react to being implanted with the genestealer's embryonic fuggawhatsits?

[Miraqariftsky]

To all who answered my questions, my most humble thanks for said answers.

A Stormtrooper is the next-best thing to a Space Marine. The best humanity has to offer without resorting to abhuman genetic nonsense. They are kind of a big deal. Before Ward, the Inquisition used to train buckets of them. Remember when Inquisitorial Stormtroopers were a thing?

Like Space Marines, Stormtroopers aren't for front-line combat. They're for destabilising the enemy or dropping markers for bombardment.

Egh. This is the same Ward who frakked over both the Sisters of Battle and the Grey Knights with his Codex-nonsense, right?

So, apparently, Inquisitorial Stormtroopers are no longer "a thing"? Have they gone the way of the... Thigh-Building Exercises?

[GolemsVoice]

You mean the Squa...
...
...
=][=

[Cheesegear]

Egh. This is the same Ward who frakked over both the Sisters of Battle and the Grey Knights with his Codex-nonsense, right?

This is the same Ward as referenced in the title of the thread.

So, apparently, Inquisitorial Stormtroopers are no longer "a thing"? Have they gone the way of the... Thigh-Building Exercises?

Inquisitors no longer have the dedicated training facilities that they used to have. Inquisitors grab people from various walks of life according to their needs and form groups of warbands, cells or cadres. You play Dark Heresy, surely you know this part of the story.

The Stormtroopers that the Inquisition uses now are recruited from the Imperial Guard to be recruited/drafted at convenience, rather than being born and bred to fight Daemons like they were. And the Stormtroopers that the Scholas do train aren't Inquisition property.

[Miraqariftsky]

This is the same Ward as referenced in the title of the thread.

Inquisitors no longer have the dedicated training facilities that they used to have. Inquisitors grab people from various walks of life according to their needs and form groups of warbands, cells or cadres. You play Dark Heresy, surely you know this part of the story.

The Stormtroopers that the Inquisition uses now are recruited from the Imperial Guard to be recruited/drafted at convenience, rather than being born and bred to fight Daemons like they were. And the Stormtroopers that the Scholas do train aren't Inquisition property.

Ah, so it is. Hate'n indeed.

That seems logical. And yes, I do, but I still maintain that I am a relative novice to the 'verse. I know enough to get by, instruct novices newer than I, but well know that I still have much to learn from y'all veterans.

Hmm. Indeed, like was referenced, in the Valhallan 597th's Stormtroopers in Caves of Ice.

"born and bred to fight Daemons"--- Hmm. Like the Cadian heroic redshirt squad in Malleus who fought off Prophaniti? Like... Ollanius Pius BEFORE Games Workshop frakked him over?

[LeSwordfish]

"born and bred to fight Daemons"--- Hmm. Like the Cadian heroic redshirt squad in Malleus who fought off Prophaniti? Like... Ollanius Pius BEFORE Games Workshop frakked him over?

Dunno about the second one, but the Kasrkin are basically super-trained specialist guard, fighting daemons due to geography as much as anything else, and Neve merely seconded them.

[Brother Oni]

Also, from what I've read of genestealers, it seems that someone given the 'genestealer kiss' isn't actually dangerous unless they're allowed to reproduce or stay with the genestealer?

Technically yes, but given the amount of psychic ability a 'stealer brood has, keeping an infected person alive may be more trouble than it's worth.
Old rules for tabletop allowed any 'stealer psyker to draw LOS for their abilities from any 'stealer model. Given that 'stealer psykers are either the Patriarch or a Magnus, who are both top power psykers, this is a very bad thing.

And how would something like an ork or an eldar (who reproduce via spores and IDK, respectively) or a space marine react to being implanted with the genestealer's embryonic fuggawhatsits?

Prior to the ork retcon where they became a fungoid lifeform, ork/stealer hybrids did exist.
These days, it's assumed that it's a waste of time for a 'stealer to infect them (and would probably just tear the ork apart instead).

Eldar would presumably be infected and would hence have the desire to settle down and spawn new eldar/stealer hybrids. Given that there have been no such hybrids listed, one could assume that some part of the Eldar psychic technology or their lifestyle easily lets infected Eldar be picked up.

A Space Marine would also have the desire to reproduce, but given that they're sterile from the augmentation process, not to mention a SM being interested in settling down and having a family would warrant a detailed examination from the Apothecary or Chaplain that would find the infection, it wouldn't happen.

[Kris Strife]

Technically yes, but given the amount of psychic ability a 'stealer brood has, keeping an infected person alive may be more trouble than it's worth.
Old rules for tabletop allowed any 'stealer psyker to draw LOS for their abilities from any 'stealer model. Given that 'stealer psykers are either the Patriarch or a Magnus, who are both top power psykers, this is a very bad thing.



Prior to the ork retcon where they became a fungoid lifeform, ork/stealer hybrids did exist.
These days, it's assumed that it's a waste of time for a 'stealer to infect them (and would probably just tear the ork apart instead).

Eldar would presumably be infected and would hence have the desire to settle down and spawn new eldar/stealer hybrids. Given that there have been no such hybrids listed, one could assume that some part of the Eldar psychic technology or their lifestyle easily lets infected Eldar be picked up.

A Space Marine would also have the desire to reproduce, but given that they're sterile from the augmentation process, not to mention a SM being interested in settling down and having a family would warrant a detailed examination from the Apothecary or Chaplain that would find the infection, it wouldn't happen.

The Stealers also gain some control over the infected individual, putting them into the Brood Mind (mini-version of the Hive Mind), which means that said individual will cause disruption of defenses when the brood/hive attacks.

This part does apply to orks and space marines.

[TechnoScrabble]

Ya know, I never did find where it specifically said Space Marines are sterile...I just figured the urge to breed was brainwashed out of them even as testerone replacing hormones were pumped into them.

Can you even remove a genestealer's implantation safely?

[DaedalusMkV]

Can you even remove a genestealer's implantation safely?

You can, but it requires extremely advanced medical equipment.

[Cheesegear]

A Space Marine would also have the desire to reproduce...

Space Marines are immune to implantation from a Genestealer. They have at least two organs that would recognise the 'plant as poison/foreign and they would get rid of it immediately.

"born and bred to fight Daemons"--- Hmm. Like the Cadian heroic redshirt squad in Malleus who fought off Prophaniti? Like... Ollanius Pius BEFORE Games Workshop frakked him over?

SCENE: Inquisitor and 15 six year-olds.
Inquisitor; "You guys are how old? Six!? My goodness. You've had it easy. I think it's high time you lot grew some balls. Today, I'm going to summon a Daemon and you lot are going to kill it. Six!? And you haven't even killed a real Daemon yet...In my day..."

There's a group of Stormtroopers in one of the Word Bearers books. There's a Defiler running around and nobody can deal with it. So they paratroop in, spot the Defiler and fist-bump and say they've got this. Most of them die, but one guy grabs his Meltagun, dodges all the legs, rolls underneath and in Sam-and-Shelob style, meltas the underside of the Defiler like an Awesome.

The ones in Caves of Ice do nothing. I'll attribute that to the Pariahs or the fact that Jurgen needs to save the day (again) because that's how Cain works. Rather than the fact that Stormtroopers are wussies.

[positivespace]

I'm pretty sure the genestealers can tell ahead of time what is or isn't worth implanting, too.

[Squark]

The ones in Caves of Ice do nothing. I'll attribute that to the Pariahs or the fact that Jurgen needs to save the day (again) because that's how Cain works. Rather than the fact that Stormtroopers are wussies.

Well, they annihilate a group of warriors, which is reasonably impressive.


Personally, I like to think that warrior acolytes are often storm troopers, but that's just me.

On Space Marines and Sterility: We're not totally sure on that, but it has been established that the amount of horomones going through their body renders them virtually impotent (As to the oft-quoted Lukas the Trickster question [He's reputed to have shared the beds of many women in a single night]; Fenrisian boys are considered men by the age they're suitable for implantation- Ragnar was well into the courtship process when his village was attacked and he was nearly killed and was chosen as an initiate).

[bluntpencil]

If we go by Deathwatch fluff and rules, Space Marines aren't sterile...yet, since they don't begin play with 'Chem Geld'... which causes sterility.

Of course... that's really looking into it...