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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Final_Stand View Post
    Don't press Thariously?
    I'm guessing it's "Don't press that seriously', but there's a couple typos in it (either that or I'm transcribing it incorrectly).

    Very nice indeed, Zorg.

    Edit: I'm guessing Janrak Spargan is descended from a legendary pirate who sailed the old Terra Caribbean sea, and is that Battle Angel Alita and Miss Fortune from League of Legends for Gilma Locsin and Lady Orelans respectively?

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    Last edited by Brother Oni; 2011-12-11 at 07:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Very nice, good work! Keep them coming when you make new issues for your players. I think I'll supply another story tommorrow, if you like it?
    Si non confectus, non reficiat.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    I have a question about the Codex Astartes and the Second Founding.

    Did Guilliman force his brothers to adopt the Codex? And did he write it alone?

    The fact that the Chapters are supposed to be independent makes it a bit hard for me to follow. You have a guide on how to run a chapter (written by a Primarch no less), but no practical means of enforcement. It's just up to each Chapter how seriously they want to take it. What was the point then, other than to annoy Dorn?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    I have a question about the Codex Astartes and the Second Founding.

    Did Guilliman force his brothers to adopt the Codex? And did he write it alone?

    The fact that the Chapters are supposed to be independent makes it a bit hard for me to follow. You have a guide on how to run a chapter (written by a Primarch no less), but no practical means of enforcement. It's just up to each Chapter how seriously they want to take it. What was the point then, other than to annoy Dorn?
    You have to consider at what time and in what circumstances it was written.

    It was right after the Horus Heresy, after the Space Marine Legions had been traumatized and dishonoured by half of them turning against them. After such an event, they had to be dealing with doubts and despair; preventing a repetition of such an event had to be pretty much the highest priority point on their agenda. The Codex was, to a large part, written to redesign the Legions into something where the Heresy couldn't repeat itself. Hence Guilliman didn't have to force them into compliance - for the most part, in their shame and desperation, they accepted the Codex quite willingly - partially, probably, as a sort of penance for having allowed the Heresy to occur. And by the time that state was over, the Codex had already ingrained itself into the Space Marine identity.

    Or that's my interpretation of all of that, anyway.


    Question of my own. I recently started reading Fulgrim for another time, and while doing so noticed that, on the cover, there is a depiction of a Dreadnought. I also recall that there was at least one Dreadnought featured towards the end of Galaxy in Flames.

    Now, this seriously irritates me, because I'd have thought Dreadnoughts were something that came up only after the Heresy. Every codex containing Dreadnoughts keeps emphasizing how Space Marines are pretty much only interred in Dreadnoughts under the most dire circumstances, so there appears to be a serious reluctance to subject warriors to this fate. It makes sense though - after all, ever since the Heresy, Space Marines are in rather short supply for all the chapters, so preserving them in this fashion may, at times, just be necessary. The Legions though, before the Heresy and the civil war it entailed? They didn't have such a massive shortage on men - why would they have to make use of such an option?

    (Also, if Dreadnoughts were always used, how come none of the Dreadnoughts from before the Heresy have survived? Bjorn the Fell-Handed is explicitly stated to be the oldest one of them all, and he didn't become a Dreadnought until long after the Heresy - one would think that if Dreadnoughts were actually commonly used even back then, at least some would have survived by sheer coincidence.)
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    (Also, if Dreadnoughts were always used, how come none of the Dreadnoughts from before the Heresy have survived? Bjorn the Fell-Handed is explicitly stated to be the oldest one of them all, and he didn't become a Dreadnought until long after the Heresy - one would think that if Dreadnoughts were actually commonly used even back then, at least some would have survived by sheer coincidence.)
    There are 2 possible solutions for this, firstly that the one Dreadnought who managet to live though all of this is in fact Bjorn, the rest of them has managet to blow themself up though the following 10.000 years of warfare.

    The second solution is that Bjorn is the only Dreadnough who is being kept in a stasis crypt to prolong his lifespan, and that all the other dreadnoughs from that time has lost the battle against entropy.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    The Legions though, before the Heresy and the civil war it entailed? They didn't have such a massive shortage on men - why would they have to make use of such an option?
    Maybe back then, Dreadnoughts weren't the tombs they are today, but rather a more advanced sort of prostethic limbs that allowed a warrior to fight on where even prostethics and extensive surgery couldn't keep him alive? Maybe they were fully conscious all the time, instead of the death-sleep of modern Dreadnoughts?

    So being placed inside a Dreadnought was considered a high honor (you are so important that we want you to live on and give you one of our extremely rare, powerful machines) without the drawbacks?

    But maybe the writers/artists just made a mitake.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Question of my own. I recently started reading Fulgrim for another time, and while doing so noticed that, on the cover, there is a depiction of a Dreadnought. I also recall that there was at least one Dreadnought featured towards the end of Galaxy in Flames.

    Now, this seriously irritates me, because I'd have thought Dreadnoughts were something that came up only after the Heresy. Every codex containing Dreadnoughts keeps emphasizing how Space Marines are pretty much only interred in Dreadnoughts under the most dire circumstances, so there appears to be a serious reluctance to subject warriors to this fate. It makes sense though - after all, ever since the Heresy, Space Marines are in rather short supply for all the chapters, so preserving them in this fashion may, at times, just be necessary. The Legions though, before the Heresy and the civil war it entailed? They didn't have such a massive shortage on men - why would they have to make use of such an option?

    (Also, if Dreadnoughts were always used, how come none of the Dreadnoughts from before the Heresy have survived? Bjorn the Fell-Handed is explicitly stated to be the oldest one of them all, and he didn't become a Dreadnought until long after the Heresy - one would think that if Dreadnoughts were actually commonly used even back then, at least some would have survived by sheer coincidence.)
    Hm... I could have sworn I'd encountered something saying that Dreadnoughts used to be exo-suit like things. Could be wrong (In fact, it might have been the result of a comment about how the Contemplator Dreadnought from forgeworld would have looked much better than the DreadKnight)
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    Did Guilliman force his brothers to adopt the Codex? And did he write it alone?
    Sort of, and yes.

    The main anti-Codex Primarchs were Dorn and Russ - albeit for two different reasons - and Vulkan.

    Dorn was against it because separating Marines from each other was anti-brotherhood, and diluted one of the main strengths of Marines in general.

    Guilliman subsequently ordered the Imperial Fleet to bombard Dorn's fleet with torpedoes until he gave in.
    /slowclap for Guilliman. In order to prevent civil war, Guilliman was willing to start one. Using non-Astartes military. In a massive clusterf* of "What is this I don't even..." because Dorn was the one who was supposed to be giving orders with the Emperor (and Horus) down, and Malcador being a pile of ash, so why was the Navy listening to Gulliman?

    Russ, on the other hand, took a look around, noticed that the only way they were able to stop Horus in the first place was because of the massive strengths that the Legions could bring to bear against each other and told Guilliman to pull his head out of his arse, and then congratulated Guilliman for his integral part of the defense of Terra.

    Vulkan was also against the Codex, but I can't find a source for why.

    Jangatai Khan and Corax (and Guilliman) supported the Codex, again, I can't seem to find why. Khan I can see, but given Corax's actions during and after the Heresy, I can't really figure out why he would support the Codex.

    The Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Iron Hands, having no Primarch to stand for them, accepted the Codex with little resistance.

    Basically, 6 Legions accepted the Codex. Dorn was bullied into accepting it, and Vulkan (one of the Dropsite Legions) was probably bullied as well, given that there's no chance he could've stood up to a Legion that didn't even fight in the Heresy.

    Russ...Was left alone. No-one messes with Russ.

    It's just up to each Chapter how seriously they want to take it.
    Sort of. Ultimately it's whether or not Terra approves of your Chapter, and, if they don't, what can they do about it, and whether or not it's worth the cost. In broad general terms, the only thing that can kill a Marine is another Marine. And most Chapters aren't willing to fight other Chapters for a variety of reasons.

    So Terra using Loyalist Marines to sanction 'Renegades' is usually out of the question unless it's for a really, really good reason (see Badab War), not just because 'they wont follow the Codex'. Which means they use other forces (Sisters, Guard, etc.) which aren't nearly as effective as actual Marines and generally fail at trying to wipe out 'Renegades'.

    What was the point then, other than to annoy Dorn?
    The main point of the Codex was to thin down individual political power, by thinning down the military might behind it. To Guilliman's credit (and wholly out of character), Guilliman actually did it to himself as well.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2011-12-13 at 06:49 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Guilliman subsequently ordered the Imperial Fleet to bombard Dorn's fleet with torpedoes until he gave in.
    /slowclap for Guilliman. In order to prevent civil war, Guilliman was willing to start one. Using non-Astartes military. In a massive clusterf* of "What is this I don't even..." because Dorn was the one who was supposed to be giving orders with the Emperor (and Horus) down, and Malcador being a pile of ash.
    And then one of the chapters the Fists got split into told Guilliman to go boil his head, and the Black Templars never looked back.


    At least, that's roughly what I think happened. The more lore savvy people will probably chide me for being horribly, horribly wrong about every word of that sentence.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    And then one of the chapters the Fists got split into told Guilliman to go boil his head, and the Black Templars never looked back.
    Actually, Sigismund told Dorn to go boil his head.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Actually, Sigismund told Dorn to go boil his head.
    Ah.

    ...
    *reads lexicanum*

    Well after the Iron Cage idea, I probably would have a few words for him, too.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Ok, having read the HH books finishing with 'Flight of the Esienstein' and the Ciaphas Cain books finishing with 'Death or Glory' and being unable to continue with either at the moment (cant get my hands on the next books), Can anyone reccomend a some 40k(30k) books to read?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Parra View Post
    Ok, having read the HH books finishing with 'Flight of the Esienstein' and the Ciaphas Cain books finishing with 'Death or Glory' and being unable to continue with either at the moment (cant get my hands on the next books), Can anyone reccomend a some 40k(30k) books to read?
    The rest of the HH/30K books?

    Here you go.

    The only thing I can recommend in addition to that is The Night Lords' Series, but that's by ADB and inclusive in the link.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    cool, I'll take a looksie at the blurb on those and see what catches my attention.

    Thanks

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Question of my own. I recently started reading Fulgrim for another time, and while doing so noticed that, on the cover, there is a depiction of a Dreadnought. I also recall that there was at least one Dreadnought featured towards the end of Galaxy in Flames.
    IIRC, the Heresy concept art books had a Custodian dreadnought, and the Contemptor dread relies on pre-heresy tech. According to Lexicanum the oldest dreadnought parts were built during the Age of Strife (M23-30) Plus, where else would the traitor legions have gotten the technology from?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    There's a Dreadnought in one of the Dark Angel's HH books - the implication seemed to be that it was basically a way for critically injured marines to continue fighting and act as heavy duty face-wreckers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Looking good! I'd suggest maybe putting some typical "Thought for the day" or such on the bottom of each page - you know, all those "an open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred" and "blessed the mind too narrow for doubt" quotes that demonstrate so aptly what an oppressive, anti-intellectual regime the Imperium is. It would serve as a rather nice contrast to the much more "normal" newspaper and emphasize to the players that this is not just our society with more tech.
    As others said, there is one there - I've kept only one per issue so I don't run out of line too quickly There's also the date, so I'll have the next issue correspond with whatever date they return to either Footfall, Port Wander or a couple of civilised worlds (the only places to get the Gazetter!).

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Final_Stand View Post
    Don't press Thariously?
    Doesn't come out right? Ah well, I'll just let any Explorator characters know or keep thte others wondering I used this converter if anyone's interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Wasn't "Praise the sun that brings the dawn of our final doom" a Tolkien quote though? Still, it fits quite well- even if lacking in the traditional Imperium attitude.
    It's from the RT era Compendium as far as I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodez View Post
    I must confess that I actually stole those as a future reference if I ever need to make newspapers for my D&D group.
    But I would like to point out that I have a bit of a hard time making out the titles, I don't know whether is it due to resolution or font, but I have to really focus on titles to read them.
    I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing - I'm trying to emulate Victorian newspapers with their (to our design sensabilities) illegible walls of text. Since I actually want my players to read said text, I decided to make the headers suitably 'gothic'. That and it adds visual interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    "Raithe Scrack", indeed?

    Very, very good work Zorg. It's been a very long time since I've wanted to play in an RP game as much as this one, after seeing that.
    Thankyou, I hope my players feel the same way

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    Edit: I'm guessing Janrak Spargan is descended from a legendary pirate who sailed the old Terra Caribbean sea, and is that Battle Angel Alita and Miss Fortune from League of Legends for Gilma Locsin and Lady Orelans respectively?
    Possibly, I just stole them wholesale utilised the resources made available by Fantasy Flight- they're all their characters. Interesting to know there's still lazy name stealing humourous homages going into 40k products.


    Oh and an idea for the next bit of techspeak:
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    Quote Originally Posted by GolemsVoice View Post
    Very nice, good work! Keep them coming when you make new issues for your players. I think I'll supply another story tommorrow, if you like it?
    More story ideas are always welcome, as are short adverts, personals and whatnot. If anyone was wondering, the Gee-Ball pics will all be taken from the Rollerball movies.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    First, I don't know why, but I find this image amusing:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Question of my own. I recently started reading Fulgrim for another time, and while doing so noticed that, on the cover, there is a depiction of a Dreadnought. I also recall that there was at least one Dreadnought featured towards the end of Galaxy in Flames.
    If Dreads are new tech, Codex:CSM would have excluded them like Strom Bolters and Assault cannons, no?

    (Also, if Dreadnoughts were always used, how come none of the Dreadnoughts from before the Heresy have survived? Bjorn the Fell-Handed is explicitly stated to be the oldest one of them all, and he didn't become a Dreadnought until long after the Heresy - one would think that if Dreadnoughts were actually commonly used even back then, at least some would have survived by sheer coincidence.)
    Attrition?

    Plus, what you state is not quite true. Bjorn is oldest pilot of dreadnought. Not machine. In fact, Codex: Blood Angels states that some of theirs fought on Terra during the Heresy, so it can't be right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Guilliman subsequently ordered the Imperial Fleet to bombard Dorn's fleet with torpedoes until he gave in.
    /slowclap for Guilliman. In order to prevent civil war, Guilliman was willing to start one. Using non-Astartes military. In a massive clusterf* of "What is this I don't even..." because Dorn was the one who was supposed to be giving orders with the Emperor (and Horus) down, and Malcador being a pile of ash, so why was the Navy listening to Gulliman?
    Well, what he was supposed to do? Just roll over and accept open rebellion? Ok, Dorn wouldn't have openly rebelled, but it would have meant end of centralized law in Imperium and opened door to all sorts of nasty consequences based on that precedent.

    Why they listened to him? Well... He had that little thing called 'more marines than everyone else combined, twice'? He was the only person that could have (and kept) Imperium together post-Heresy? He was the only Primarch who actually knew how to rule a state? I suspect once immediate post-Heresy period ended whole Imperium come to accept him as the boss, or at least bigger part than everyone else.

    Russ, on the other hand, took a look around, noticed that the only way they were able to stop Horus in the first place was because of the massive strengths that the Legions could bring to bear against each other and told Guilliman to pull his head out of his arse, and then congratulated Guilliman for his integral part of the defense of Terra.
    Spiritual Liege would have thrown that right back and asked where Russ was during that battle, and pointed out that he kept 100.000 Heretical Marines at bay when the Wolf just kept running randomly

    Russ...Was left alone. No-one messes with Russ.
    Um... Wolves were split, too.

    Sort of. Ultimately it's whether or not Terra approves of your Chapter, and, if they don't, what can they do about it, and whether or not it's worth the cost. In broad general terms, the only thing that can kill a Marine is another Marine. And most Chapters aren't willing to fight other Chapters for a variety of reasons.
    Haven't latest IA introduced anti-Marine Chapters? Minotaurs? Executioners? Carcharodons?

    So Terra using Loyalist Marines to sanction 'Renegades' is usually out of the question unless it's for a really, really good reason (see Badab War), not just because 'they wont follow the Codex'. Which means they use other forces (Sisters, Guard, etc.) which aren't nearly as effective as actual Marines and generally fail at trying to wipe out 'Renegades'.
    The same Imperial Guard that held against 100+ Chapters worth of Chaos Marines on Armageddon, eliminating a few dozen worth permanently? Or the same Imperial Guard who failed to held Cadia 13 14 times?

    The main point of the Codex was to thin down individual political power, by thinning down the military might behind it. To Guilliman's credit (and wholly out of character), Guilliman actually did it to himself as well.
    Why out of character?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    First, I don't know why, but I find this image amusing:

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    Heh, good one

    Spiritual Liege would have thrown that right back and asked where Russ was during that battle, and pointed out that he kept 100.000 Heretical Marines at bay when the Wolf just kept running randomly
    One of the possible reasons Horus let the Emperor board his ship was that the Wolves and Dark Angels were coming and if he didn't hurry up and kill the Emperor he'd get trapped between the loyalist armies, so they were (possibly) highly instrumental in Horus' defeat.


    Haven't latest IA introduced anti-Marine Chapters? Minotaurs? Executioners? Carcharodons?
    Only the Minotaurs are anythign 'anti-Marine'. Executioners love a good fight, and Marines give the best, but they're not better at it than anyone else. Charcharodons just enjoy destroying anyone and everything.


    The same Imperial Guard that held against 100+ Chapters worth of Chaos Marines on Armageddon, eliminating a few dozen worth permanently? Or the same Imperial Guard who failed to held Cadia 13 14 times?
    Wel,l Armageddon was about to be overrun, and the only reason it wasn't was that Angron stuffed around piling up skulls rather than attacking, giving the GKs time to arrive and Grimnar to set his trap.
    If Angron had just got on with the skulltaking they would have wiped out the defenders entirely (and likely cripple or destroyed the Wolves into the bargain)
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    Um... Wolves were split, too.
    Nope.

    Well, okay, there were the Wolf Brothers. But that went so badly that everyone gave up on ever trying to found chapters based on Space Wolf Geneseed ever again.

    The exact number of Space Wolves is undetermined, but it is known that they still maintain pretty much the same numbers they had during the Heresy.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    The same Imperial Guard that held against 100+ Chapters worth of Chaos Marines on Armageddon, eliminating a few dozen worth permanently? Or the same Imperial Guard who failed to held Cadia 13 14 times?
    The Imperial Guard have never lost control of Cadia in the entire time it's been colonized. It wasn't until the 13th Black Crusade that Chaos even managed to obtain more than a temporary foothold on its surface.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorg View Post
    One of the possible reasons Horus let the Emperor board his ship was that the Wolves and Dark Angels were coming and if he didn't hurry up and kill the Emperor he'd get trapped between the loyalist armies, so they were (possibly) highly instrumental in Horus' defeat.
    Eh, out of three coming Legions, Wolves were smallest by far, so their due in this is debatable. On the flip side, if Word Bearer Legion wasn't busy reinforcements might have come after the planet already fallen.

    Only the Minotaurs are anythign 'anti-Marine'. Executioners love a good fight, and Marines give the best, but they're not better at it than anyone else. Charcharodons just enjoy destroying anyone and everything.
    Pardon moi, but it's kind of like arguing Preferred Enemy:Everything! isn't Preferred Enemy: Space Marines when you do fight them. Semantics

    Wel,l Armageddon was about to be overrun, and the only reason it wasn't was that Angron stuffed around piling up skulls rather than attacking, giving the GKs time to arrive and Grimnar to set his trap.
    If Angron had just got on with the skulltaking they would have wiped out the defenders entirely (and likely cripple or destroyed the Wolves into the bargain)
    ...wait, didn't we have someone being expert on WH40K leaders recently? Maybe we should ask him for advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    Well, okay, there were the Wolf Brothers. But that went so badly that everyone gave up on ever trying to found chapters based on Space Wolf Geneseed ever again.
    Codex suggests more that's due to their rebellious nature and lack obedience they were skipped so many times.

    The exact number of Space Wolves is undetermined, but it is known that they still maintain pretty much the same numbers they had during the Heresy.
    No. They have 12, not 13 companies, and these are 50-450 sized, not pretty much larger Chapters in themselves as before.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    The Imperial Guard have never lost control of Cadia in the entire time it's been colonized. It wasn't until the 13th Black Crusade that Chaos even managed to obtain more than a temporary foothold on its surface.
    That was sarcasm :P
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    Well, what he was supposed to do? Just roll over and accept open rebellion? Ok, Dorn wouldn't have openly rebelled, but it would have meant end of centralized law in Imperium and opened door to all sorts of nasty consequences based on that precedent.
    But there was no rebellion. There was only anti-Codex sentiment. Dorn was the one in charge. Emperor down, Warmaster turned traitor and Regent turned to ash. The one in charge is the current Warmaster; Dorn.

    Guilliman was the one doing the rebelling.

    Why they listened to him? Well... He had that little thing called 'more marines than everyone else combined, twice'? He was the only person that could have (and kept) Imperium together post-Heresy?
    Yes. That's the reason he was able to force his position. With Daddy dead, the IQ of the Imperium (including the Primarchs) drops about 20 points and Guilliman starts acting like Curze to force everyone into his way of thinking by "Do this or I smash you."

    He was the only Primarch who actually knew how to rule a state?
    No. If he was, Guilliman would have been made Warmaster. Lion was perfectly capable of being Warmaster too if he hadn't f*d everything up. Dorn knew perfectly well how to run a state and that's why the Emperor put him in charge.

    And we know Dorn can run a state because he's canonically the Last Primarch for ~150 years, and he does everything fine.

    Spiritual Liege would have thrown that right back and asked where Russ was during that battle, and pointed out that he kept 100.000 Heretical Marines at bay when the Wolf just kept running randomly
    Wrong on all counts.
    Russ went off to do as Dad told him to do. Then came straight back to Terra.

    Guilliman ran off because Word Bearers were attacked Calth. The Word Bearers had no interest in Terra, their job was to bait Guilliman away from Terra and they did that perfectly. Guilliman didn't keep anyone at bay. If anything, it was Lorgar who kept the Ultramarines at bay.

    ...This is pretty much the topic for Know No Fear early next year.

    Haven't latest IA introduced anti-Marine Chapters? Minotaurs? Executioners? Carcharodons?
    I already mentioned Badab War as the one time that I can recall where Marines fought Marines for a good reason. Trying to prove me wrong using Badab War Chapters doesn't really work.

    The same Imperial Guard that held against 100+ Chapters worth of Chaos Marines on Armageddon, eliminating a few dozen worth permanently?
    That's fine. But point me to a canon example of Imperial Guard taking down a Loyalist-turned-Regegade Chapter without Space Marine and/or Inquisition/Exterminatus support? Because all the attempts that I've seen have ended in failure on the High Lords' part and the 'renegade' Chapter's continuing existence.

    Why out of character?
    Because Guilliman giving up anything is entirely contrary to what he's written as. Read some books. The Guilliman I know, would more likely say "Everyone has to follow the Codex, except me." and then Guilliman would run roughshod over everyone who stood in his way.

    Guilliman was well on his way to becoming something like Huron. Maybe Know No Fear will change Guilliman.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Where's it stated that Dorn was still "in charge" when Guilliman introduced the Codex Astartes proposals?

    If anything, Guilliman, as "Lord Commander of the Imperium" was in charge of all the Imperium's armed forces, when he introduced the reforms.- the role which corresponds to Dorn's "Warmaster" position during the Heresy.

    "Dorn called Guilliman a coward for not fighting at Terra, while Guilliman called Dorn a rebel"

    doesn't really make much sense if Guilliman is the one in the "rebel" position.

    Concerning Dorn being "canonically the last Primarch"- that doesn't make him the person running the state- the High Lords had already been introduced by this point.

    And Deathwatch: First Founding suggests that Vulkan may have lead his legion for 3000 years:

    Some sources state that Vulkan lead his chapter for three entire millennia before he departed on some mission he never declared to the Imperium at large, though scant evidence of any of his deeds throughout that age remain.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2011-12-17 at 06:27 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Where's it stated that Dorn was still "in charge" when Guilliman introduced the Codex Astartes proposals?
    Dorn was Warmaster when Horus turned. That puts him in charge. Just as Horus was before him.

    If anything, Guilliman, as "Lord Commander of the Imperium"
    Source? Nevermind. In looking for other things I found it. After the Heresy, Dorn left on a Crusade (for his failure that is the Emperor getting stabbed), which basically left Guilliman in charge. When he got back, Guilliman was basically in charge of everything and said "Codex, now."

    "Dorn called Guilliman a coward for not fighting at Terra, while Guilliman called Dorn a rebel"
    Guilliman can say whatever he wants. Dorn could've been a 'rebel' for whatever reason Guilliman could make up. The Codex is designed to reduce political power by reducing military might. If everyone else does it and you don't, that makes you a rebel.

    And Deathwatch: First Founding suggests that Vulkan may have lead his legion for 3000 years:
    So did most of the Primarchs.
    Anyway, I did some research on the Timeline of the Primarchs quite some time back but I can't find the post. My Search-Fu is pretty bad. Usually other forumites have done it for me.

    When Vulkan left, the remaining Primarchs were Dorn and Corax.
    Dorn was sad when Corax left.

    Dorn was last.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    So did most of the Primarchs.
    Anyway, I did some research on the Timeline of the Primarchs quite some time back but I can't find the post. My Search-Fu is pretty bad. Usually other forumites have done it for me.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Quote Originally Posted by Feriority View Post
    The covers of the Cain books are basically propaganda posters. They show CAIN using a bolt pistol, even though in the books, he turns down anything higher powered than his laspistol because his experience with the laspistol makes aiming it reflexive for him. They also show him standing triumphantly among the corpses of the enemies of the Imperium, which isn't particularly Cain-like.

    And Colonels and Majors having bolt pistols is rather different from the rank and file getting the same; if I remember right, they don't even show any officers below that using bolt weapons, though I might be wrong. Heavy bolters are used as support weapons, and regular bolters don't come up much, as far as I remember.

    Even Cain's suicide mission squad in For the Emperor, when getting armed with better armor and weapons, only gets hellguns, not bolters. Vail uses a bolt pistol, and Cain keeps his trusty laspistol.
    I always got the impression that Bolt weapons were not unusual for Colonels, Majors, and Commissars. I don't think they were actually "standard issue", but at that rank you get to use your influence to get your hands on special gear, and you can get techpriests to maintain your gear for you. Cain's choice of gear seems to be the bare minimum for Commissars, I always got the impression that he's been using the same chainsword and laspistol he was issued with at the Schola. With the exception of some Carapace armor he hasn't really made an effort to get his hands on better gear. Which is a little odd, I would imagine that there must be at least one noble family on Perlia that tried to foist some family heirlooms onto him after the whole Korbul thing.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    Thats actualy explained in the books, Cain has used that Laspistol for so long that shooting with it has become instinctive, and he doesnt feel that swiching to something heavyer would be worth the loss of hit% and rate of fire.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    So kids, I know sometimes I sound like a shill for Black Library, but in Deliverance Lost, the characters from Raven's Flight are in it, and the events of the latter are referenced heavily and, although I haven't read far in, I'm pretty sure they'll be a plot point later.

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    Also, there are literally dozens of Alphariuses running around at the same time - it turns out that some Alpha Legionaries undergo psy-treatment to become Alpharius, basically meaning that he can't be killed. It also means that the author (Gav Thorpe) doesn't have to write individual personalities for each Alpha 'cause they're all the same guy.

    Also,Alpharius can call Erebus out on the bulls* artist that he his.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    That is pretty cool and entirely in line with the things we know of the alpha legion.

    Also yay for detracting from Girlymans greatest achievement.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

    I just couldn't help it
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