Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 38
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    The next part of my general Core fix is boosting the fighter and paladin. This takes several parts; first they get more feats, then they get some new (and actually worthwhile) feats available, then a few minor points.

    First, the increased feats: A fighter gets a bonus feat at 1st level and every 3 levels thereafter, and at 2nd level and every 3 levels thereafter. (So at every level not divisible by 3.) A paladin gets a new feat at 2nd level and every 3 levels thereafter. Both classes may only take as bonus feats those which are designated as fighter bonus feats.

    Next comes the new feats, and improvements on the old ones. Whenever one of the following feats has the same name as an old one, that means it replaces the old one. All of the following feats may be taken as fighter (or paladin) bonus feats (Greater Disarm has been borrowed from the Pathfinder version, but other second-tier combat maneuver feats are not the same as in Pathfinder. Deadly Aim is roughly based on the Pathfinder feat of the same name, and Parry is based on the Pathfinder duelist ability). Note also that due to the new TWF, Greater Two-weapon Fighting no longer exist.

    New feats:
    Spoiler
    Show


    Take the Blow:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Con 13, Armor Proficiency (Medium)
    Benefit: Whenever you are attacked and not deprived of your Dexterity bonus to AC, you may choose to give up a number of points of Dodge bonus or Dexterity bonus to AC in order to gain damage reduction. The number of points given up may not exceed the AC bonus granted by your armor (including Enhancement bonuses.) When wearing light armor or using a Mage Armor spell or Bracers of Armor, you gain DR 1/- for every 2 points of AC bonus given up. When wearing medium armor, you gain DR 1/- for every point of AC given up, and when wearing heavy armor you gain DR 2/- for every point of AC given up, provided you are proficient in heavy armor. This DR stacks with all others.
    The DR from this feat is applied before bonus damage from sneak attacks and critical hits; if the DR reduces the damage taken to 0, the bonus damage is not applied.
    For purposes of this feat, mithral armor is considered to be the same category (light, medium, heavy) as a non-mithral version of the same armor, but heavy armor proficiency is still needed to gain DR equal to 2 times the AC bonus given up.
    A Dexterity bonus to AC that would be lost due to heavy armor may not be given up in order to use this feat.


    Armor Mastery:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Armor Proficiency (Medium), BAB +16
    Benefit: Your speed is not decreased when wearing medium or heavy armor. In addition, you may treat armor as one category lighter (to a minimum of light armor) for purposes of allowing class features and feats to be used. You only get the benefit of this feat when wearing armor you are proficient with.


    Combat Expertise:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisite: Int 13.
    Benefit: When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of any number up to your BAB on your attack roll and add the same number as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until your next action. This feat may not be used in conjuction with fighting defensively.
    In addition, when using the total defense action, you gain an additional dodge bonus equal to 2 less than your BAB (minimum 0). This additional bonus is not increased by 50% for someone with 5 ranks in Tumble.
    Special: When using more than one feat that allows you to take a penalty up to your BAB to your attack roll in order to gain other bonuses, the total penalty to your attack roll may not exceed your BAB.


    Improved Defense:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Int 13, 5 ranks Tumble.
    Benefit: The dodge bonus gained from fighting defensively, from the total defense action, and from using the Combat Expertise feat is doubled. This stacks with all other increases; as usual, two doublings equals a tripling, and so on.


    Greater Disarm:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, BAB +6.
    Benefit: Whenever you successfully disarm an opponent, the weapon lands 15 feet away from its previous wielder, in a random direction. You also gain a +4 bonus on the opposed attack roll you make to disarm your opponent; this bonus stacks with that from Improved Disarm.


    Greater Feint:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, BAB +6.
    Benefit: When making a Bluff check in order to feint, you may use your BAB instead of your ranks in Bluff.


    Greater Trip:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, BAB +6.
    Benefit: When you attempt to trip an opponent, the opponent must use its Dexterity modifier to oppose your Strength check. You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to trip your opponent; this stacks with the bonus from Improved Trip.
    Normal: The opponent may use either its Strength modifier or Dexterity modifier, whichever is higher, to oppose your Strength check.
    Special: When you make a trip attack granted by the Knockdown feat, the opponent may use its Strength modifier to oppose your Strength check even if you have this feat. You still get the +4 bonus to the check.


    Dodge:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Dex 13
    Benefit: During your action, you designate an opponent. You receive a dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks from that opponent equal to the sum of your dodge and dexterity bonuses to AC from other sources (minimum 1, maximum 5). You can select a new opponent on any action.

    A condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses. Also, dodge bonuses stack with each other, unlike most other types of bonuses.


    Improved Dodge:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge
    Benefit: When attacked by an enemy in melee, the attacker must add its Dexterity modifier to the attack roll instead of its Strength modifier. Your Armor, Shield, Natural Armor, and Deflection bonuses to AC are reduced by a proportion equal to the ratio of the attacker's Strength score and Dexterity score.
    Normal: A melee attacker adds its Strength modifier to the attack roll, unless it has the Weapon Finesse feat or is incorporeal.
    Special: This feat only functions when it is of benefit to you, whether you are aware of the situation or not. It does not function when you use Take the Blow.


    Improved Mobility:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, BAB +2
    Benefit: You gain 5 ranks in Tumble. These ranks do not stack with those bought for skill points, but work normally with respect to skill checks, synergies, and prerequisites.


    Improved Critical:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Choose one type of weapon
    Prerequisites: Proficient with weapon, BAB +8; see Special.
    Benefit: When using the weapon you selected, your threat range is doubled.
    Special:You can gain Improved Critical multiple times. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.
    This effect doesnít stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon, except for the Deadly Aim feat.
    When the selected weapon is a piercing thrown weapon (or can be used as such), or is a projectile weapon with ammunition that does piercing damage, Improved Critical may be taken with a BAB of less than +8 (but at least +1). If the weapon can also be used as a melee or non-piercing weapon, Improved Critical does not apply to it in that capacity until you have BAB +8 or higher.


    Greater Grapple:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, BAB +6.
    Benefit: When making an opposed Grapple check against an opponent, you may halve all strength bonuses, size bonuses, and BAB deriving from racial hit dice, as well as the bonus gained from a barbarian's Grappler ability, for both you and your opponent. You also gain a +4 bonus on all grapple checks; this stacks with the bonus from Improved Grapple. In addition, you do not automatically fail to start a grapple against an opponent two or three sizes larger than you (but you do fail against an opponent four or more sizes larger than you.)


    Mounted Combat:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisite: Ride 1 Rank.
    Benefit: Once per round when your mount is hit in combat, you may attempt a Ride check (as a reaction) to negate the hit. The hit is negated if your Ride check result is greater than the opponentís attack roll. (Essentially, the Ride check result becomes the mountís Armor Class if itís higher than the mountís regular AC.) For every 5 ranks in Ride you have beyond the first, you may attempt to negate an additional hit each round in this manner, but the second such attempt takes a -5 penalty to the ride check, the third takes a -10 penalty, and so on.


    Ride-By Attack:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Ride 1 Rank, Mounted Combat.
    Benefit: When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round canít exceed double your mounted speed. If you choose to exercise this option, you and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack, and you need not attack from the closest square from which you threaten the opponent.


    Point Blank Shot:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Benefit: You get a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls, and an additional +5 on attack rolls to confirm critical hits, with ranged weapons at ranges of up to 30 feet.


    Deadly Aim:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Choose one type of ranged weapon with which you have taken the Improved Critical feat.
    Prerequisites: Point Blank Shot, Improved Critical with selected weapon, BAB +1
    Benefit: You may take a penalty of -1 to your attack roll with a selected ranged weapon in order to double your critical threat range. This doubling stacks with that granted by Improved Critical; as usual, two doublings equal a tripling.
    You may apply this feat multiple times to a single attack, up to a maximum penalty equal to your BAB.
    If Improved Critical does not apply to an attack, neither does Deadly Aim.
    Special: When using more than one feat that allows you to take a penalty up to your BAB to your attack roll in order to gain other bonuses, the total penalty to your attack roll may not exceed your BAB.


    Improved Deadly Aim:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Choose one type of ranged weapon with which you have taken the Deadly Aim feat.
    Prerequisites: Point Blank Shot, Improved Critical with selected weapon, Deadly Aim with selected weapon, BAB +8
    Benefit: When using Deadly Aim, you may choose to decrease your threat range by 2 (so a 17-20 threat range would become 19-20) in order to increase your critical multiplier by 1. You may apply this ability as many times as you wish to a single attack. If your weapon has a base critical modifier of X3, you may decrease your threat range by 1 to increase your critical multiplier by 1.


    Precise Shot:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisite: Point Blank Shot
    Benefit: You can shoot or throw ranged weapons at an opponent engaged in melee without taking the standard -4 penalty on your attack roll. In addition, whenever you make a ranged attack you can choose a single ally; this ally gives no soft cover to your target.


    Parry:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisite: BAB +4
    Benefit:Whenever you attack with a melee weapon, you can elect not to take one or more of your attacks. At any time before your next turn, you can attempt to parry a melee attack against you that would do slashing or crushing damage. To parry the attack, make an attack roll, using the same bonuses and penalties as an attack you chose to forego during your previous action. Do not apply penalties due to fighting defensively or using Combat Expertise. If your attack roll is greater than the roll of the attacking creature, the attack automatically misses. If your attack roll exceeds the opponent's attack roll by 5, you may choose to bind the opponent's weapon, preventing both it and your weapon from being used until the end of the opponent's next turn.
    SpecialYou take a -4 penalty on the attack roll to parry an attack that would do crushing damage.
    You may not parry an attack against which you would not be entitled to a Dexterity bonus to AC.
    You may parry more than one attack each round, but each one must use a different foregone attack.
    You must choose to parry an attack before the attack roll has been made.
    You may not parry with a natural weapon. In order to bind a natural weapon, you must exceed the opponents attack roll by at least 10.
    You may not parry while using the Rapid Attack feat.


    Improved Parry:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Parry, Combat Reflexes, BAB +11
    Benefit:You may spend an attack of opportunity to parry an attack. You take a -4 on the attack roll to parry when used in this manner.


    Greater Bull Rush:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, BAB +6.
    Benefit: When you attempt to bull rush an opponent, you may negate all modifiers for size and stability for both you and your opponent. You also gain a +4 bonus on the opposed Strength check you make to push back the defender; this stacks with the bonus from Improved Bull Rush.


    Greater Overrun:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, Improved Overrun, BAB +6.
    Benefit: When you attempt to overrun, your opponent must use his Strength modifier to oppose your Strength check. You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to knock down your opponent; this stacks with the bonus from Improved Overrun.
    Normal: The opponent may use either its Strength modifier or Dexterity modifier, whichever is higher, to oppose your Strength check.


    Greater Sunder:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, Improved Sunder, BAB +6.
    Benefit: When you destroy an item, you can choose to destroy it with a clean break. An item destroyed with a clean break can be repaired using the craft skill (restoring any magical properties) as though it were only damaged, although magical repair treats it as broken. You also gain a +4 bonus on any attack roll made to attack an object held or carried by another character; this stacks with the bonus from Improved Sunder.


    Penetrating Blow:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Str 15, Power Attack.
    Benefit: When making a melee attack, you may choose to ignore armor and natural armor bonuses to AC. If you do so, the damage is reduced by an amount dependent on the target's armor or natural armor: Light armor, force armor (such as a Mage Armor spell or bracers of armor), or the natural armor of a creature without a particularly tough hide, reduce the damage by an amount equal to the AC they would normally grant. Medium armor (including mithral versions of medium armor), or the natural armor of a creature with a tough hide or scales, reduce the damage taken by twice the bonus they normally grant to AC. Heavy armor (or a mithral version thereof) or the natural armor of a creature with a carapace or exoskeleton reduces the damage by three times the normal bonus to AC.
    Special: If using this feat causes the damage done, excluding precision damage, to be reduced to 0 or lower, the attack does no damage.
    When wielding a metal bludgeoning weapon, the damage cannot be reduced to less than your strength modifier. You still lose the benefit of precision damage if the damage would otherwise be reduced to 0 or less.


    Shield Mastery:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisite: Shield Proficiency
    Benefit: If an enemy misses you with a melee weapon while you are wielding a shield you are proficient in, and the enemy's natural roll is equal to your shield bonus to AC or less, the enemy may neither attack nor threaten with that weapon until the beginning of his next turn. If this causes the enemy to not threaten any square, he provokes an attack of opportunity from you.
    Special: You may only use this ability with a shield you are wielding (not an animated shield). You also may not use this ability with a shield that gives no AC bonus against the attack for any reason.


    Warder:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisite: Shield Proficiency, BAB +4
    Benefit: When wielding a light shield or medium shield you give half your shield bonus to AC as a shield bonus to the AC of all adjacent allies. When using a tower shield, you give an AC bonus equal to your Shield bonus to AC.
    Special: You may only use this ability with a shield you are wielding (not an animated shield). You also may not use this ability against an attack against which you would not be entitled to both your shield bonus and dodge bonus (if it targeted you).


    Improved Warder:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisite: Shield Proficiency, Warder, BAB +8
    Benefit: You may add your dodge and Dexterity bonuses (if any) to your shield bonus when determining the bonus granted by the Warder feat. The total bonus granted still may not exceed your actual (i.e. not counting this feat) shield bonus to AC.


    Two-Weapon Fighting:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisite: Dex 15
    Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. See the Two-Weapon Fighting special attack. In addition, you gain iterative attacks for your off-hand weapon from a high BAB just as you do for your primary weapon.
    NormalIf you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.)


    Improved Two-Weapon Fighting:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting
    Benefit: You take no penalties for fighting with two weapons.


    Two-Weapon Defense:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting, Parry, BAB +4
    Benefit: You may choose to parry an attack with more than one weapon. This uses a foregone attack from each weapon and uses the lowest attack roll among them, but gives a +5 bonus to the attack roll for each weapon after the first.


    Two-Weapon Pin:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting
    Benefit: When you take a full attack action to attack with two weapons, and hit with one weapon, make a Strength check, opposed by the Strength or Dexterity check of your opponent (using whichever modifier is higher). You get a +4 bonus for every size category you are larger than Medium or a -4 penalty for every size category you are smaller than Medium, and your opponent is entitled to the same bonuses and penalties based on his size. If you win the check, you may immediately make an attack with the other weapon (if you have such an attack left in your attack sequence) against the same target, and the target loses his Dexterity bonus against this attack.
    Special: Even though your opponent loses his Dexterity bonus against the attack, it does not allow you to make a sneak attack against him. (You may, however, make a sneak attack if you would qualify for it without this feat.)


    Two-Weapon Trap:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Pin
    Benefit: When you take a full attack action to attack with two weapons, you may make, as a paired set, an attack from the sequence with each of the weapons. The opponent must divide his Dexterity bonus to AC (as well as any similar bonuses, such as Dodge bonuses or a monk's AC bonus) between the two attacks. Even if he chooses to allocate no bonus to one of the attacks, he is not considered to be deprived of his Dexterity bonus to AC.


    Rapid Attack:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Prerequisites: Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, BAB +4
    Benefit: Whenever you make an attack or full attack while using Weapon Finesse, you may choose to make a rapid attack instead. When making a rapid attack, replace each attack to which you would normally be entitled (except those gained from magical effects such as Haste or a Speed weapon) with a number of attacks equal to your Dexterity bonus.
    When making a rapid attack, you are considered to have a strength of 10 (if it is normally higher), and so gain no strength bonus to damage or to opposed rolls and may not use any feats that require a strength of more than 10.
    In addition, any weapon used in a Rapid Attack is considered to have damage of 1d6 or its usual damage, whichever is less.
    Also, magical effects and bonuses to damage (such as that done by a +1 weapon or a flaming weapon) apply only on those attacks to which you would normally be entitled.
    Finally, you may not deal any form of precision damage while using a Rapid Attack.


    Weapon Focus:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray or touch attack, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat.
    Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
    Benefit: You gain a 25% increase to the numerical benefits gained from the following feats when used with the chosen weapon: Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Deadly Aim, Improved Disarm, Greater Disarm, Improved Trip, Greater Trip, Improved Sunder, Greater Sunder. You may choose to instead gain a +1 bonus on the attack roll with the selected weapon.
    If you are entitled to multiple percentage bonuses to the effects of a feat, add together all the percentages before applying the result to the effect of the feat and rounding down.


    Weapon Specialization:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray or touch attack, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat.
    Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, fighter level 4th.
    Benefit: You gain a 25% increase to the numerical benefits gained from the following feats when used with the chosen weapon: Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Deadly Aim, Improved Disarm, Greater Disarm, Improved Trip, Greater Trip, Improved Sunder, Greater Sunder. You may choose to instead gain a +2 bonus on the damage roll with the selected weapon.
    Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.
    If you are entitled to multiple percentage bonuses to the effects of a feat, add together all the percentages before applying the result to the effect of the feat and rounding down.


    Greater Weapon Focus:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray or touch attack, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat.
    Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, fighter level 8th.
    Benefit: You gain a 25% increase to the numerical benefits gained from the following feats when used with the chosen weapon: Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Deadly Aim, Improved Disarm, Greater Disarm, Improved Trip, Greater Trip, Improved Sunder, Greater Sunder. You may choose to instead gain a +1 bonus on the attack roll with the selected weapon.
    Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.
    If you are entitled to multiple percentage bonuses to the effects of a feat, add together all the percentages before applying the result to the effect of the feat and rounding down.


    Greater Weapon Specialization:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray or touch attack, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat.
    Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Greater Weapon Focus with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, Weapon Specialization with selected weapon, fighter level 12th.
    Benefit: You gain a 25% increase to the numerical benefits gained from the following feats when used with the chosen weapon: Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Deadly Aim, Improved Disarm, Greater Disarm, Improved Trip, Greater Trip, Improved Sunder, Greater Sunder. You may choose to instead gain a +2 bonus on the damage roll with the selected weapon.
    Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.
    If you are entitled to multiple percentage bonuses to the effects of a feat, add together all the percentages before applying the result to the effect of the feat and rounding down.




    Next, a quick boost to the Craft skill: When the Craft skill is used to repair a damaged item (or one broken with a clean break), the process takes only one day. Alternatively, the character may make a quick repair, which takes only one hour, requires half the normal raw material cost (one-tenth the item's nonmagical cost), and has a DC 5 lower than that to craft the item, but the item takes a -1 penalty to attack and damage rolls, and if magical has unreliable functioning (as a cursed item with that property). The penalties last until the item is repaired normally.

    Finally, a new weapon and armor enchantment:
    A shifting weapon (+1 effective enhancement bonus) may turn into another weapon on command. Melee weapons can only turn into other melee weapons, projectile weapons into other projectile weapons, and thrown weapons into other thrown weapons. Ammunition cannot have the Shifting property. If an item can be used in melee or thrown, it can be treated as either, but not as both for a single weapon. When an Identify spell indicates that a weapon is shifting, it also indicates all available forms.
    Changing the form of a shifting weapon is a standard action. When determining the price of a shifting weapon, the prices of all of its forms must be paid for seperately, but the masterwork component only needs to be paid once, and each type of special material must only be paid for once (using the form for which it is most expensive.)
    It is possible to split a shifting melee weapon with a +2 or higher actual enhancement bonus into two weapons, suitable for two-weapon fighting; in this case, the pair of weapons is considered to be the weapon's form. When this is done, each magical property and enhancement of the item, except the Shifting property, applies to only one of the weapons (chosen at the time the weapon is split.)
    When wielding two shifting weapons, it is possible to absorb one into the other when changing the form of the latter. The absorbed weapon gives no benefit, but is kept safe until the weapons are split again.
    A True Sight spell allows the recipient to see all possible forms of a shifting weapon.

    When rolling treasure, the top two numbers (for a minor item) or top number (for an medium or major item) assigned to the Flaming, Frost, and Shock properties instead indicate a Shifting weapon with 1d4+1 randomly selected forms. A randomly generated Shifting weapon will have all forms of the same special material (if any.)

    A shifting weapon has a strong aura of transmutation, a CL of 15, and requires Polymorph Any Object to create.

    Shifting armor works similarly to a shifting weapon, but can also take the form of a normal set of clothes. When randomly rolling armor, rolling a 30-32 (for a minor item) or 8 (for a medium item) results in a Shifting item instead; in addition, if spell resistance of 15 or higher is rolled, there is a 10% chance that the item is Shifting as well, but the spell resistance is reduced by 2.
    Last edited by Yitzi; 2011-12-16 at 11:25 AM.
    My general 3.5 balance fix.
    My psionics remix.
    My common-sense houserules.
    More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

    Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

    Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
    Come visit the Core Coliseum today, for a totally different style of optimization.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NeoSeraphi's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    At the top
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Improved Critical: Ranged weapons don't have a damage type. They deal damage based on the ammunition that is loaded into them. (A longbow that shoots PHB arrows deals piercing damage, while the same longbow that shoots serpentstongue arrows deals piercing and slashing damage, and the same longbow that shoots blunt arrows deals bludgeoning damage)

    Edit: Greater Grapple still does nothing to encourage grappling at mid-to-high levels of play (as all Huge and larger monsters are simply immune to a player's grapple attempts)

    Edit 2: Parry: You can't take immediate actions while you are flat-footed. I realize that Core doesn't technically have immediate actions, so I'd add that to the list of times you can't parry. And it's not the same as "Against any attack you would be denied your Dex bonus to AC", as any character with Uncanny Dodge retains his Dexterity bonus to his AC while he is flat-footed, but that doesn't change the fact that he's flat-footed.

    Edit 3: Weapon Focus, et al: Why are you granting the benefits of this feat to ray spells but not to touch spells? I think touch spells are also allowed to be targets of the feat normally, so why deprive clerics of their ability to be better at harming?
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-05 at 09:08 PM.
    Cool necromancer avatar by Chd

    Seraphi HomebrewTM

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Improved Critical: Ranged weapons don't have a damage type. They deal damage based on the ammunition that is loaded into them. (A longbow that shoots PHB arrows deals piercing damage, while the same longbow that shoots serpentstongue arrows deals piercing and slashing damage, and the same longbow that shoots blunt arrows deals bludgeoning damage)
    Ok, good point. Fixed.

    Edit: Greater Grapple still does nothing to encourage grappling at mid-to-high levels of play (as all Huge and larger monsters are simply immune to a player's grapple attempts)
    It could still be of defensive use, and is also great against barbarians, and Enlarge will help somewhat, but point taken. I've now allowed you to grapple enemies two or three sizes larger without autofail.

    Edit 2: Parry: You can't take immediate actions while you are flat-footed. I realize that Core doesn't technically have immediate actions, so I'd add that to the list of times you can't parry.
    You can't parry when flat-footed anyway, as you have to have made an attack sequence the previous round in order to parry, and if you're flat-footed then by definition you haven't acted yet this battle.
    Last edited by Yitzi; 2011-12-05 at 09:07 PM.
    My general 3.5 balance fix.
    My psionics remix.
    My common-sense houserules.
    More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

    Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

    Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
    Come visit the Core Coliseum today, for a totally different style of optimization.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NeoSeraphi's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    At the top
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    You can't parry when flat-footed anyway, as you have to have made an attack sequence the previous round in order to parry, and if you're flat-footed then by definition you haven't acted yet this battle.
    That's not true, but I suppose in a Core-only game it won't come up that much anyway.
    Cool necromancer avatar by Chd

    Seraphi HomebrewTM

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    That's not true.
    How so? If you've taken an action the previous round, you're not flatfooted. (I suppose a spell that makes someone flatfooted would be different, but no such spell exists in Core, and if this is extended to non-Core, it would make more sense to put that in the spell description.)
    My general 3.5 balance fix.
    My psionics remix.
    My common-sense houserules.
    More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

    Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

    Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
    Come visit the Core Coliseum today, for a totally different style of optimization.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NeoSeraphi's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    At the top
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    How so? If you've taken an action the previous round, you're not flatfooted. (I suppose a spell that makes someone flatfooted would be different, but no such spell exists in Core, and if this is extended to non-Core, it would make more sense to put that in the spell description.)
    There's a whole bunch of really cool Tactical feats in Complete Warrior and Races of the Wild that let gnomes and halflings use their small Size to confound larger creatures and then if their maneuvers are successful, the next attack they deliver treats the opponent as if he were flat-footed.
    Cool necromancer avatar by Chd

    Seraphi HomebrewTM

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    There's a whole bunch of really cool Tactical feats in Complete Warrior and Races of the Wild that let gnomes and halflings use their small Size to confound larger creatures and then if their maneuvers are successful, the next attack they deliver treats the opponent as if he were flat-footed.
    Sounds fun, but I see no reason that it should block Parry in the presence of Uncanny Dodge any more effectively than it blocks Dexterity bonuses.
    My general 3.5 balance fix.
    My psionics remix.
    My common-sense houserules.
    More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

    Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

    Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
    Come visit the Core Coliseum today, for a totally different style of optimization.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NeoSeraphi's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    At the top
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    Sounds fun, but I see no reason that it should block Parry in the presence of Uncanny Dodge any more effectively than it blocks Dexterity bonuses.
    Because you can't make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed? Flat-footed is basically a condition where you simply cannot act. No immediate action spells, no AoOs, nothing. Uncanny Dodge doesn't help with that either.
    Cool necromancer avatar by Chd

    Seraphi HomebrewTM

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Because you can't make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed? Flat-footed is basically a condition where you simply cannot act. No immediate action spells, no AoOs, nothing. Uncanny Dodge doesn't help with that either.
    Could be, except that I suspect RAI for those feats is simply that he loses his DEX bonus as if he were flat-footed. (An interesting non-homebrew distinction would be if the next attack the individual makes is a grapple without Improved Grapple or the like. If the individual is truly considered flat-footed, he can't make an AoO in response to it.)
    My general 3.5 balance fix.
    My psionics remix.
    My common-sense houserules.
    More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

    Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

    Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
    Come visit the Core Coliseum today, for a totally different style of optimization.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    bobthe6th's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Under the midnight sun
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    might slip the balenced weapon styles into this while you are at it... never tried them in a real game, but the look fun.
    Avatar by Szilard, thank you sir for the fine work!

    my home brew. you should PEACH them...
    Telekineticist
    Razor
    Shield
    blasterv4
    mindbender

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NeoSeraphi's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    At the top
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    Could be, except that I suspect RAI for those feats is simply that he loses his DEX bonus as if he were flat-footed. (An interesting non-homebrew distinction would be if the next attack the individual makes is a grapple without Improved Grapple or the like. If the individual is truly considered flat-footed, he can't make an AoO in response to it.)
    Exactly, you could do that with these feats. Flat-footed is useful for more than just removing Dex to their AC and qualifying for precision damage. It's to stop counter-attacks and prevent annoying responses like celerity.

    Edit: Getting back on topic though, why are you only allowing your Weapon Focus line to apply to ray spells and not to touch spells?
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-05 at 10:34 PM.
    Cool necromancer avatar by Chd

    Seraphi HomebrewTM

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    As far as the Fighter class goes, you really haven't changed anything.
    3 extra feats spread over 20 levels change nothing.

    And now that the Paladin gets 7 more feats - and quite a few - 3 of which before 10th level - there's really no reason to play a fighter - ever.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NeoSeraphi's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    At the top
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    As far as the Fighter class goes, you really haven't changed anything.
    3 extra feats spread over 20 levels change nothing.

    And now that the Paladin gets 7 more feats - and quite a few - 3 of which before 10th level - there's really no reason to play a fighter - ever.
    Actually, there are 8 reasons why you'd still play a fighter over a paladin: Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, Lawful Neutral, Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Evil.

    Edit: Though I agree with your opinion about the paladin stealing the fighter's thunder. The problem is that the fighter didn't really have that much thunder to steal. No other class got absolutely nothing as early as third level.

    If you're playing a straight fighter, even in a Core-only game, it's either to prove that a straight fighter can be optimized, or it's because you're a new player who's looking for someone simple.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-06 at 01:31 AM.
    Cool necromancer avatar by Chd

    Seraphi HomebrewTM

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    The bonus feats help the paladin out a fair deal, but don't change the fact that it's a 6-level class-- and that's counting Remove Disease 1/week as a useful ability, which it isn't. You still don't have an effective form of offense outside of feats, and the spells and healing are pretty crappy.

    Fighter is helped by the powered-up feats, but still gets nothing for himself (all other classes can take feats, and paladin even steals his schtick of getting lots of them). The poor guy needs class features.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Major Works:
    • STaRS: The Simple Tabletop Roleplaying System; my attempt at a generic rules-light system.
    • Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 revisions-- houserules, class fixes, ban lists and more.
    • Chopping Down the Christmas Tree: Rules for low- or no-magic item games of 3.5.
    • D&D in M&M-- Balancing 3.5 by porting it lock, stock, and barrel into a more balanced system.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    might slip the balenced weapon styles into this while you are at it... never tried them in a real game, but the look fun.
    I'll look them over if I have a bit more time, and see if there's anything there worth using.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Exactly, you could do that with these feats. Flat-footed is useful for more than just removing Dex to their AC and qualifying for precision damage. It's to stop counter-attacks and prevent annoying responses like celerity.
    The only person who gets anything Celerity-like in this fix (since it doesn't have the spell) is high-level monks, and they tend to lose hard to fighters anyway.

    Edit: Getting back on topic though, why are you only allowing your Weapon Focus line to apply to ray spells and not to touch spells?
    I just copied that bit over from the original. Good point, though, I'll add that too. Not that it matters much, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    As far as the Fighter class goes, you really haven't changed anything.
    3 extra feats spread over 20 levels change nothing.
    But highly useful fighter-only feats (the top 3 elements of the weapon specialization line) do, and extremely powerful but highly situational feats (as many of the new feats are) and good feat combos (as the rest of them are) definitely do.

    And now that the Paladin gets 7 more feats - and quite a few - 3 of which before 10th level - there's really no reason to play a fighter - ever.
    Weapon specialization. Greater Weapon Focus. Greater Weapon Specialization. The ability to take two offensive lines (because all of the new feats have creatures they're weak against) and two defensive lines, and still have enough left for a bit extra.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    The bonus feats help the paladin out a fair deal, but don't change the fact that it's a 6-level class-- and that's counting Remove Disease 1/week as a useful ability, which it isn't. You still don't have an effective form of offense outside of feats, and the spells and healing are pretty crappy.
    Yes, paladin is a somewhat eclectic class. But he's got decent attack and damage bonuses through spells and the occasional Smite Evil (not as much as a raging barbarian gets, but a bit), and a bit of healing, and a bit of feats...he's sort of a bit of everything.

    Fighter is helped by the powered-up feats, but still gets nothing for himself (all other classes can take feats, and paladin even steals his schtick of getting lots of them).
    The point is that the feats are designed to complement (work together) and supplement (each one is useful only some of the time, but when one isn't useful another one usually will be) each other, so that they're far more useful when you can take a lot of them. And of course the three fighter-only feats are pretty good.
    Last edited by Yitzi; 2011-12-06 at 09:33 AM.
    My general 3.5 balance fix.
    My psionics remix.
    My common-sense houserules.
    More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

    Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

    Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
    Come visit the Core Coliseum today, for a totally different style of optimization.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Looking over the balanced weapon styles, I don't really see much that fits well with the intent here. A few, such as the reduced feat costs for someone using a lot of styles, actually go against the core idea of this fix (namely that a lot of feats should translate into a lot of options both offensively and defensively.)

    There is a bit, though:
    The new Precise Shot does look good, though; I'll add it to the existing one.

    I also think I'll include a modified version of Warder.

    Finally, it occurred to me that there should be a feat to help characters who want to wield two longswords, so I'm adding Improved Two-Weapon Fighting.
    Last edited by Yitzi; 2011-12-06 at 09:53 AM.
    My general 3.5 balance fix.
    My psionics remix.
    My common-sense houserules.
    More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

    Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

    Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
    Come visit the Core Coliseum today, for a totally different style of optimization.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    Yes, paladin is a somewhat eclectic class. But he's got decent attack and damage bonuses through spells and the occasional Smite Evil (not as much as a raging barbarian gets, but a bit), and a bit of healing, and a bit of feats...he's sort of a bit of everything.
    I would argue that a class needs something unique. Why should I play a paladin as opposed to, say, a fighter/cleric? I would argue that your fix fails to address the paladin's biggest problems.
    • MAD
    • Smite Evil doesn't have enough effect and isn't usable often enough.
    • All the class features are concentrated in the first few levels, leaving little incentive not to multiclass out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Major Works:
    • STaRS: The Simple Tabletop Roleplaying System; my attempt at a generic rules-light system.
    • Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 revisions-- houserules, class fixes, ban lists and more.
    • Chopping Down the Christmas Tree: Rules for low- or no-magic item games of 3.5.
    • D&D in M&M-- Balancing 3.5 by porting it lock, stock, and barrel into a more balanced system.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    But highly useful fighter-only feats (the top 3 elements of the weapon specialization line) do, and extremely powerful but highly situational feats (as many of the new feats are) and good feat combos (as the rest of them are) definitely do.
    . . .
    Weapon specialization. Greater Weapon Focus. Greater Weapon Specialization. The ability to take two offensive lines (because all of the new feats have creatures they're weak against) and two defensive lines, and still have enough left for a bit extra.
    These are the most insignificant feats in the entire game (in fact, they're so insignificant that you almost might as well have given up those feat slots altogether). maybe with Melee Weapon Master & Weapon Supremacy they amount, value-wise, to 2 feats (compare them to Elusive Target, for instance - comes very handy when facing a full attack by a great wyrm).
    They work well only for those that engage in strategy-less straight combat.

    Click This to get some clues regarding a handful of the melees' problems (and the list goes on and on).

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    I would argue that a class needs something unique.
    I'd disagree.

    Why should I play a paladin as opposed to, say, a fighter/cleric?
    You mean a multiclass? Because in order to get the same feats as the fighter you need to spend half your levels on it, leaving you with only 5-level spellcasting anyway, and you still lose out on the full BAB, the save bonus, and spells like Holy Sword. And of course you lose out on Smite Evil. It's somewhat similar, but the paladin is a superior version of such.

    I would argue that your fix fails to address the paladin's biggest problems.
    • MAD
    • This is fixed (at higher levels, where it's actually a problem) by my change to inherent bonuses in a different part of the fix.

    • Smite Evil doesn't have enough effect and isn't usable often enough.
    This actually could use fixing; I'll get to work thinking about how to fix it in my paladin fix part 2.

    I don't want to make it too powerful, though; the Paladin can use Divine Favor to get roughly a third to half of the raw offensive power of the barbarian, so on top of other spells and half the feats of the fighter, it could very easily become too much.

    Unless I reduce his feats; that actually might be a good idea. I'll think about it.

  20. All the class features are concentrated in the first few levels, leaving little incentive not to multiclass out.
Not really. There are no new class features after the first few levels, but most of the existing ones are level-dependent, so by multiclassing out you're giving up most of the benefit of those abilities.

Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
These are the most insignificant feats in the entire game (in fact, they're so insignificant that you almost might as well have given up those feat slots altogether).
How so? For the cost of one feat, you get what amounts to a +2 bonus on all combat maneuvers you're focusing on, as well as a far more efficient Power Attack and Combat Expertise.

compare them to Elusive Target, for instance - comes very handy when facing a full attack by a great wyrm
Comparing something to an overpowered homebrew feat isn't really a good measure of balance.

That said, my fix does have something of use when facing a full attack by a great wyrm; it's called Improved Dodge, and works a lot better when you can get a high Dodge bonus with Combat Expertise, Improved Defense, and 4 +25% feats (of which 3 are fighter-only).

They work well only for those that engage in strategy-less straight combat.
Perhaps you're misreading them. Their whole strength is that they improve not one option but a whole slew of them, allowing you to have numerous options from which to pick the best one (the essence of strategy).

Click This to get some clues regarding a handful of the melees' problems (and the list goes on and on).
Let's go through that...
-First a bit about tier 1s. As I said, this is part of a general fix (linked) in which tier 1s are substantially depowered. That said, fighter is not meant to be able to beat a wizard of equal level; if you want to make a wizard cry, send a monk. (Fighter is meant to beat monk, by the way.)
-Enervation was mentioned. This (ranged touch attacks) is actually one area in which fighters have been made far more effective against casters, through boosts to Combat Expertise. (Of course, other classes can use Combat Expertise too, but they can only boost it to 225% effectiveness, and have to spend a substantial portion of their feats to do so, while a fighter can boost it to 300% effectiveness at a substantially lower cost.)
-A point about the importance of versatility. If there's one thing the new fighter is good at, it's versatility.
-More about how wizards are broken; there's a reason my wizard fix was 3 parts.

I am fully aware of why wizards beat fighters, and that was mostly dealt with in my wizard fix (a bit is dealt with here, and some was left in place because everyone needs some weaknesses); the point here is more that a fighter should be able to beat monsters, most clerics or druids, and other physical combat classes (including rogues who try to use a direct approach or flanking, but not rogues who use sniping; feinting rogues can go either way).
Last edited by Yitzi; 2011-12-06 at 02:03 PM.
My general 3.5 balance fix.
My psionics remix.
My common-sense houserules.
More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
Come visit the Core Coliseum today, for a totally different style of optimization.
Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  • - Top - End - #20
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NeoSeraphi's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    At the top
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    Comparing something to an overpowered homebrew feat isn't really a good measure of balance.

    That said, my fix does have something of use when facing a full attack by a great wyrm; it's called Improved Dodge, and works a lot better when you can get a high Dodge bonus with Combat Expertise, Improved Defense, and 4 +25% feats (of which 3 are fighter-only).
    Elusive Target is NOT an "overpowered homebrew feat".
    Cool necromancer avatar by Chd

    Seraphi HomebrewTM

  • - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Elusive Target is NOT an "overpowered homebrew feat".
    Whoops, a Google search found me a homebrew version, and I didn't realize it was based on a non-homebrew feat.

    And I don't really see why this one is so much better than the +25% feats. Negating Power Attack is always nice, but a well-built fighter will have no trouble punishing Power Attackers by boosting his AC. (He can also undo the effects of Power Attack with Take the Blow.) The anti-flanking ability is cool, but doesn't seem that useful most of the time. And while the overreach ability is useful, if you're serious about tripping you can use the trip bonus from the +25% feats (as well as the ability to get Greater Trip and still have enough feats for several other options), and if not you don't have much chance of making the trip check anyway against many monsters.

    Also, I've thought more about Smite Evil, and concluded it doesn't really need that much boosting. When used on a charge with a lance and Spirited Charge (pretty much classic paladin), it can do 3X the paladin's level in damage, and not only doesn't cost attack bonus the way Power Attack does, but actually gives a minor boost. Add Divine Favor and a few well-chosen feats on top of that, and paladins are the best alpha strikers by far. (Well, except against low-AC enemies, where barbarians and fighters can use power attack to pull ahead.) Some is still needed because it can't be used on an entire attack sequence, but not as much as one might think.

    The real problem that paladins have is that feats like Shock Trooper allow non-paladins to compete with Smite Evil, and do it more often, but this fix assumes the absence of those feats.
    Last edited by Yitzi; 2011-12-06 at 02:41 PM.
    My general 3.5 balance fix.
    My psionics remix.
    My common-sense houserules.
    More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

    Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

    Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
    Come visit the Core Coliseum today, for a totally different style of optimization.

  • - Top - End - #22
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NeoSeraphi's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    At the top
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    Whoops, a Google search found me a homebrew version, and I didn't realize it was based on a non-homebrew feat.

    And I don't really see why this one is so much better than the +25% feats. Negating Power Attack is always nice, but a well-built fighter will have no trouble punishing Power Attackers by boosting his AC. (He can also undo the effects of Power Attack with Take the Blow.) The anti-flanking ability is cool, but doesn't seem that useful most of the time. And while the overreach ability is useful, if you're serious about tripping you can use the trip bonus from the +25% feats (as well as the ability to get Greater Trip and still have enough feats for several other options), and if not you don't have much chance of making the trip check anyway against many monsters.

    Also, I've thought more about Smite Evil, and concluded it doesn't really need that much boosting. When used on a charge with a lance and Spirited Charge (pretty much classic paladin), it can do 3X the paladin's level in damage, and not only doesn't cost attack bonus the way Power Attack does, but actually gives a minor boost. Add Divine Favor and a few well-chosen feats on top of that, and paladins are the best alpha strikers by far. (Well, except against low-AC enemies, where barbarians and fighters can use power attack to pull ahead.) Some is still needed because it can't be used on an entire attack sequence, but not as much as one might think.

    The real problem that paladins have is that feats like Shock Trooper allow non-paladins to compete with Smite Evil, and do it more often, but this fix assumes the absence of those feats.
    Perhaps you could include the Charging Smite ACF as a minor boost to the class? (Charging Smite: On a charge, but not while mounted, the paladin deals an extra 2 damage per paladin level with his Smite Evil attack, for a total of +3*level damage)

    The problem with Core-only games that most people have isn't the lack of power, it's the lack of customization. Alternate Class Features in particular really help to build your character any way you like.
    Cool necromancer avatar by Chd

    Seraphi HomebrewTM

  • - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Perhaps you could include the Charging Smite ACF as a minor boost to the class? (Charging Smite: On a charge, but not while mounted, the paladin deals an extra 2 damage per paladin level with his Smite Evil attack, for a total of +3*level damage)
    Why should a paladin have an ability that only works when not mounted? I'm thinking more along the lines of giving him more uses, and then letting him combine a whole full attack's worth of them into a single FRA (but because it's only a single attack, it can be used from a charging mount) attack (the damage stacks, the attack bonuses don't.)

    The problem with Core-only games that most people have isn't the lack of power, it's the lack of customization. Alternate Class Features in particular really help to build your character any way you like.
    The problem is that coming up with large numbers of ACF's is not feasible, and getting them from splatbooks I don't own is out of the question. Creating "on-demand" custom classes/alternate features for flavor is a possibility, though, and I plan to use it in my game, but of course I won't be posting those before I get players.
    My general 3.5 balance fix.
    My psionics remix.
    My common-sense houserules.
    More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

    Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

    Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
    Come visit the Core Coliseum today, for a totally different style of optimization.

  • - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    How so? For the cost of one feat, you get what amounts to a +2 bonus on all combat maneuvers you're focusing on, as well as a far more efficient Power Attack and Combat Expertise.
    I must admit that I lost you.
    Of the entire Weapon Focus tree, the one that grants +2 to all maneuvers is Melee Weapon Mastery - and this one was not on the list you mentioned... and it has Focus & Spec. as prereqs - making it 3 feats.
    That's about equivalent to what you'll get from Enlarge Person, only without the extra reach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    Perhaps you're misreading them. Their whole strength is that they improve not one option but a whole slew of them, allowing you to have numerous options from which to pick the best one (the essence of strategy).
    Are you sure you're talking about the Weapon Focus feats tree?
    I don't remember them granting new options.
    Can you elaborate?

  • - Top - End - #25
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NeoSeraphi's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    At the top
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Are you sure you're talking about the Weapon Focus feats tree?
    I don't remember them granting new options.
    Can you elaborate?
    He's talking about his new Weapon Focus feat tree, which is listed above. Here's the Weapon Focus feat:

    Weapon Focus

    Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray or touch attack, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat.
    Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
    Benefit: You gain a 25% increase to the numerical benefits gained from the following feats when used with the chosen weapon: Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Deadly Aim, Improved Disarm, Greater Disarm, Improved Trip, Greater Trip, Improved Sunder, Greater Sunder. You may choose to instead gain a +1 bonus on the attack roll with the selected weapon.
    If you are entitled to multiple percentage bonuses to the effects of a feat, add together all the percentages before applying the result to the effect of the feat and rounding down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    Why should a paladin have an ability that only works when not mounted? I'm thinking more along the lines of giving him more uses, and then letting him combine a whole full attack's worth of them into a single FRA (but because it's only a single attack, it can be used from a charging mount) attack (the damage stacks, the attack bonuses don't.)
    Because sometimes a player wants to play a paladin in a typical underground dungeon setting where a Large creature would just get in the way, where you need to walk over traps and tightropes and blah blah a horse isn't good.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-06 at 04:27 PM.
    Cool necromancer avatar by Chd

    Seraphi HomebrewTM

  • - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Because sometimes a player wants to play a paladin in a typical underground dungeon setting where a Large creature would just get in the way, where you need to walk over traps and tightropes and blah blah a horse isn't good.
    Point. Although that's a specialized enough issue that it can be dealt with by the DM in a particular case (perhaps by that exact ACF), it doesn't need to be included in a general fix.

    It also occurred to me...I probably should make Smite Evil usable with a ranged attack. Then in addition to charging, the new feats allow a paladin to become a nasty archer, since the archery equivalent to Power Attack involves criticals, and Smite Evil gives a constant bonus (which is multiplied by criticals). He still won't be as good an archer overall as a fighter (since he can't keep it up for a long period), but for a short burst of offensive power he could very well be better.
    My general 3.5 balance fix.
    My psionics remix.
    My common-sense houserules.
    More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

    Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

    Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
    Come visit the Core Coliseum today, for a totally different style of optimization.

  • - Top - End - #27
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NeoSeraphi's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    At the top
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    Point. Although that's a specialized enough issue that it can be dealt with by the DM in a particular case (perhaps by that exact ACF), it doesn't need to be included in a general fix.
    True. The real problem is the narrow focus of the class overall, which is why the SRD released three very nice Paladin alternatives, which give you a Chaotic Good, Chaotic Evil, and Lawful evil variation of the paladin, so that you can still use it even if you don't want to be Lawful, or if you're playing in an evil game (or just fighting Good creatures more often than Evil creatures)

    I suggest you focus on that first, because the heavy alignment restriction/alignment focus of the class is the primary reason that a paladin is a poor choice for a player, along with the fact that it has so many dead levels after 6th.

    Also, Charging Smite was released as an ACF for the Special Mount class feature.
    Cool necromancer avatar by Chd

    Seraphi HomebrewTM

  • - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    True. The real problem is the narrow focus of the class overall, which is why the SRD released three very nice Paladin alternatives, which give you a Chaotic Good, Chaotic Evil, and Lawful evil variation of the paladin, so that you can still use it even if you don't want to be Lawful, or if you're playing in an evil game (or just fighting Good creatures more often than Evil creatures)

    I suggest you focus on that first, because the heavy alignment restriction/alignment focus of the class is the primary reason that a paladin is a poor choice for a player, along with the fact that it has so many dead levels after 6th.
    I see no reason to focus on it; the UA stuff is a perfectly good solution for when such is necessary, and perfectly compatible with everything I'm doing.

    Also, Charging Smite was released as an ACF for the Special Mount class feature.
    As I said; it can be dealt with by that exact ACF. (And to tell the truth, it's probably weak enough as such that I'd allow it in my game if someone asked for it.)
    My general 3.5 balance fix.
    My psionics remix.
    My common-sense houserules.
    More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

    Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

    Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
    Come visit the Core Coliseum today, for a totally different style of optimization.

  • - Top - End - #29
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NeoSeraphi's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    At the top
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    I see no reason to focus on it; the UA stuff is a perfectly good solution for when such is necessary, and perfectly compatible with everything I'm doing.
    But the solution isn't available in a Core-only game. And that's what you're trying to fix, right?
    Cool necromancer avatar by Chd

    Seraphi HomebrewTM

  • - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Fighter and paladin boost (includes new fighter feats) (3.5 Core, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    But the solution isn't available in a Core-only game. And that's what you're trying to fix, right?
    No; I'm trying to fix the problems that (a) are problems in all or a substantial portion of games (as opposed to only those where someone wants to play a nonstandard character type), and (b) cannot be fixed with universally available resources without creating other problems.

    Fixing every problem of the "limited options" sort is, frankly, impossible. As long as all Core classes are playable but not overpowered, and the game doesn't put too much emphasis on one aspect (offense, defense, noncombat), the goal of this fix is accomplished. Fixing other things can be left for other fixes (and a fix that consists simply of including a variant that is available online really isn't even worth posting.)
    My general 3.5 balance fix.
    My psionics remix.
    My common-sense houserules.
    More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

    Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

    Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
    Come visit the Core Coliseum today, for a totally different style of optimization.

  • Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •