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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Sep 2011

    Default The Mage: at will caster, WIP, please PEACH

    I'll start this off with a massive thanks to Roland St. Jude for his help topic, and for the "table help topic" listed therein, thanks for that go to "Cipherthe3vil"
    after that i suppose its worth listing thtat I have a couple of other off the wall homebrews that...well, lets just say they were a bit of a joke, and while iv spent rather more time on this one, i apologise for wasting anyones time if this is less than stellar as well.

    first things first: this is going to be hefty

    The “why”?
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    I’ve never been a massive fan of how wizardry is in the DnD system.
    An incredibly versatile class, with versatility coming mainly from the amount of spells known, with each spell having its own useful situations and the wizard needing to plan precisely to have the correct spells “equipped” at any one time.
    The reason I’m not a fan of this is that it Sheppard’s you into reliance of spells known, and with a spell for literally every occasion you don’t really play around with the DnD system, since you need to hoard these spell slots in case something unexpected happens.

    To combat that, I’ve attempted to make an alternative (hopefully) weaker wizard-type class that replaces “versatility through spells known” with “versatility through clever use of spells”.
    I say “wizard type class”, but I guess this is kind of the literal opposite of wizards. It will only learn about 10-15 spells TOTAL, but they will be the more interesting/unusual type of spells, most of them will be modified to a greater or lesser extent from the core variant.
    The biggest change, however, is that all of these spells will be castable at WILL.
    I know this may sound utterly broken to some, but the theory behind this is that even at higher levels, wizards still have to at least pay lip service to preserving spell slots and making sure they don’t totally run dry. With the Mage however, this isn’t a consideration, with the trade-off being that they don’t GET the spells that would totally break the game with this ability, and usually get spells a few levels later than their wizardly counterparts would.


    The “How”
    Spoiler
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    Obviously this will work slightly differently to the traditional DnD casters, so I’ll use this section to explain the differences to the system used.
    The magic is still counted as magic, still incurs the normal penalties from attempting to cast in armour, and still requires verbal or somatic components as the original spell. If the spell required a material component or arcane focus, it no longer has that requirement. Anti-magic fields affect it normally, and in all respects it functions as normal, EXCEPT for the fact that rather than having a “caster level”, they will instead be based off the user’s ranks in the Mage class. This is to stop wizards taking a few level dips into it to gain the benefits of the improved spells at lower levels, and stop those spells scaling with caster level if a wizard, sorcerer, or any other caster class wants to do that.
    Rather than having to “learn” spells a mage simply acquires them as he gains levels.
    As another downside to being able to cast spells at will, the Mage is so in-sync with the flow of magic through THEIR body that they are utterly incapable of using even the slightest magic item, and can put no ranks into the skill “use magic item”. Similarly, since they have no spell slots, mages are unable to use any metamagic that increases the spell slot used of a spell.


    so without further ado, lets begin!

    The MAGE
    "Mages are unlike other spellcasters, having there powers through neither accident of birth, as sorcerors, nor through diligent study, as wizards. The powers of a Mage come from a combination of an innate spellcasting ability, and a rigorous combat training regimen. Mages tend to be more passionate and involved that their wizardly or sorcerous brothers, and the training involved is actually more similar to the martial training of a swordsman that that of a mage or sorceror"

    alignment: any, there are Mages of all moralities

    Religion: most Mages favor Gods of knowledge or wisdom, but many mages are similarly driven by there morality, and will often follow Gods or mercy, chaos, or any other strong aligment tendency they may have

    Races: humans and elves are predominantly drawn to this race, although any race may become a Mage through training.

    Other classes: Mages tend to get on moderatley well with both sorcerors and wizards, relating with the wizards training and strength of commitment to there craft, and the sorcerors innate ability. unusually though, Mages get on best with melee combatants such as fighters and paladins (owing to their strict training regimens similarity to that of said melee combatants) and as such it is far from uncommon to see a Mage and his Fighter Partner adventuring together, or in larger groups.

    Role: support Magic with some battlefield control and debilitations thrown in. the abilities the mage can damage in his enemies are also those required to avoid or negate his spells, and clever use of his unlimited spellcasting potential can, despite his limited repertoire of spells, allow the mage to fill almost any battlefield role

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Spells

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    Mages Focus, Elemental Channeling, Read Magic

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    Create Water

    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    Sleep

    4th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    Freeze

    5th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    Enlarged Create Water, Signature Spell

    6th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    Gust of Wind, Improved Elemental Channeling,

    7th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    Sleet Storm

    8th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    Enlarged Create Water II, Summon Natures Ally IV

    9th|
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    Telekinesis,Improved Freeze, signature spell

    10th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    Ice Storm, Call lightning Storm

    11th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    Transmute Rock to Mud, Transmute Mud to Rock

    12th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    Wall of Stone,Signature Spell

    13th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    Control Weather, Control Winds

    14th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |
    Reverse Gravity

    15th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |
    Earthquake,Signature Spell

    16th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    Improved Freeze II

    17th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    Whirlwind, Freezing Blizzard

    18th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    Summon Natures Ally IX,Signature Spell

    19th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    Mages Focus: Free action

    20th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |
    Mages Fury
    [/table]

    Class Skills
    Knowledge(Arcana, The Planes) (int), Decipher Script (int), Heal (wis)c8, Spellcraft (int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Concentration (con)

    Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier


    Proficiency: The Mage is proficient only with staves, and with no armour. their class abilities require a stave to be in their hand to cast.
    Last edited by zegram 33; 2012-06-11 at 04:25 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Sep 2011

    Default PEACH (Base Class) The Mage, an At Will caster

    Mages Focus
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    A small object, made of materials worth around 100gp, which the mage keeps on his person.
    Can be anything from a marble, to a playing card, to a book.
    The mage can charge this focus with any spell that he learns, it can then be cast as a swift action at any point, and will remain charged until cast. A charged focus will slowly float around the mage. At 19th level the spell can be discharged as a free action.


    Elemental channeling

    Spoiler
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    The mage can spontaneously channel a burst of energy into his target. As a ranged touch attack, he may choose to deal 1d4/ 2 Mage levels fire, electricity, or cold damage to a single target within 10ft+10ft/mage level. Reflex saves can only ever halve the effect of this spell, never nullify it entirely(even with mettle and improved mettle).
    In addition, at 7th level, a Mages electrical channelling will also deal 1 dexterity damage/ 2 mage levels, his cold channelling will also deal 1 constitution damage/2 mage levels, and his flame channelling will also deal 1 strength damage/2 Mage levels. This ability damage lasts for 1 hour and will be automatically recovered once that time is passed. each successive use both stacks and resets the 1 hour timer.


    Signature Spell
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    Every Mages path will be different, and every mage will favour different spells from their repertoire. Naturally, as they use the spell more often, they can enhance their effect with it. At 5th level, 9th level, and every 3rd level thereafter, the mage may choose one of their spells and enhance one aspect of it from the following: the range, the area of effect, the DC of saving throws related to to spell, the damage, or the ability damage.
    the chosen effect will be multiplied by 1.5x. if the same effect or the same spell is chosen again next option it will be 2x, and the third time it is taken for that effect of that spell it will be 3x. In the case of spells that require die rolls, this will be applied after the normal result is rolled.

    if a spell did not previously have an area, the area increase cannot be chosen. however, if the spell did not usually deal damage, choosing the damage option will increase the damage dealt when using those spells in their damaging forms (such as waves from create water or crushing downwards using reverse gravity).

    For ability damage, however, if this is chosen for any spell that does not already deal ability damage, you maybe choose one ability from the following: Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Wisdom. The first use of signature spell will deal one damage to that ability under the same rules as "Improved elemental Channeling", and for each additional use it will deal one more damage, up to the cap of 3. If this is chosen for elemental channeling, then it will multiply the ability damage as normal.


    Read Magic
    as Normal

    Create Water
    Spoiler
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    The first true “Mage spell” it’s a bit of a departure from the other versions of create water.
    It can be used as normal, or it can be used to summon one cube of water of sides 5ft each, per mage level. This water can be summoned at a range of up to 20ft/mage level, where water can be summoned outside the target range, but at least some must be within it,(and linked to the outside section by other summoned water) and can be used to entrap targets. It may be summoned in any simple shape utilising the 5ft cubes as a default size. The currents in the water level can be controlled and redirected by the mage as a free action (up to a speed of 30ft/round), and the default current is to swirl in on any targets, holding them motionless as they struggle for breath. For every round spent the target may make a fortitude save vs The Mages Mage level, and upon succeeding it may swim out as normal, ignoring currents. Usually, after casting the water will fall to the ground at a rate of 10ft/round and drain away as soon as the spell is cast, but the mage may choose to maintain concentration, as a standard action each round, for as long as he wishes, keeping the water in place, even suspended in midair to be dropped onto enemies if he wishes. He can also, at casting, choose to delay the waters fall for one extra round. At the start of his second round after casting the spell, if he does not choose to resume concentration and hold the water in place, it will begin to fall as normal.
    The water will form from molecules in the air, and thus doesn’t do any damage, or even displace any objects, as it is created. This water, and any ice made from it, will dissipate into the air immediatley if "create water" is cast again. (preventing Mages just swamping entire dungeons from outside)

    If the current is directed forwards or sideways, and the spell is released, the water will travel in that direction in a wave as it recedes, travelling at the speed the current was set at (usually 30ft/round). any targets caught up in a wave like this will be carried along by the current within the wave, with the usual fortitude save to resist the currents flow. if the wave hits something solid, bludgeoning damage will be dealt to any characters and objects within the wave as fall damage equal to half the distance the wave travelled, and buildings, etc struck will also take equivalent damage.
    If nothing is struck, characters carried by the wave will be released once it has receded fully, and will be afflicted by the "shaken" status effect, fortitude save negates.

    This can also be used with water created in midair, to "project" cubes of water (or even water formed into shapes, if the Mage has a flair for the dramatic) at foes, also dealing bludgeoning damage as per half fall damage for the distance travelled.
    Note that similarly to fall damage, waves of under 10ft in hieght will have no effect, and waves of 10ft-20ft in hieght will only deal non-lethal damage.

    at 5th level the amount of water possible to create will rise to a cube of sides 10ft/level, making it and equivalent of 8 5ftcubes/mage level
    at 8th level this is increased again to cubes of side 15ft/level, making it an equivalent to 27 5ft cubes/mage level.
    (here we go, the first big move a mage will get. I’m debating whether the 8th level ability is too powerful, but I really like the idea of a mage who can raise tidal waves out of thin air and flood cities at very high levels. Sorry the description of how the created water is so verbose, but I wanted to make sure it was usable with “clever” strategies such as freezing parts to bust doors etc, and summoning sharks into larger bodies of summoned water for some offensive punch.)


    Sleep
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    Again, a bit of a departure from the norm, but not as drastic.
    For the mage, sleep can only ever affect a single target. However, rather than a flat 4HD limit, it will instead affect 1 HD/mage level, for that single creature. Also, every time a creature is succesfully affected by the "sleep" spell as cast by a mage, it gains a +2 bonus to the mages sleep spell for the rest of the day. This bonus stacks with itself, so after a second sleep it would gain a +4 bonus, and so on.


    Freeze
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    This ones totally new: immobilise enemies in a single 5ft square per mage level, from a range of up to 10ft/mage level.
    This will only work if they’re touching the ground, but otherwise works exactly the same as the “entangled” effect, but while totally preventing all movement. Can be escaped from by taking as a full round action a strength check of DC 5/mages Mage level.
    At 10th level freeze will also deal 1d6 of damage per round until the target escapes, and at 16th level the target will take 1d4 strength and constitution damage per round.
    Large creatures require 2 5ft squares to immobilise, huge creatures 4, gargantuan 8 and colossal 16
    Alternatively, this can be used to freeze up to one cube of sides 5ft/mage level into solid ice. when frozen this way, any unnatended objects (doors, chests, weapons, etc) have their hardness and effective hit points halved.


    Gust of Wind
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    Another fairly major change. All creatures or large size or smaller are knocked back 5ft/level from the force of the wind, but take no damage. Huge creatures are moved half of that distance, rounded down. Gargantuan creatures are moved a quarter of that distance, rounded down. Colossal creatures are never affected. However, the range of the spell is only a 30ft line, which can be emanated at any point within 10ft/Mage level, so the spell can be used to drag targets towards you, or knock them sideways. The line can also be targeted straight down on top oc2r an enemy, dealing non-lethal damage as if they had fallen a distance equal to the “pushing” distance of the spell.
    Similarly, the line can be aimed upwards, allowing allies to “jump” to a height equal to the pushing distance. Rather than a line, the spell can also be cast to affect everything around a target, pushing directly outwards to each 5ft cube surrounding a target 5ft cube which is designated by the Mage, and which is unaffected by the spell. Any targets hit by this effect will be pushed directly away from the central square for half the normal “push” distance.



    Sleet storm
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    As normal, except the radius is 40ft+5ft/mage level, and the height is 20ft+5ft/mage level



    Summon Natures ally IV
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    As normal, but can only summon animals or magical beasts. Aquatic animals can be summoned inside created water but will vanish when there is no longer enough water to support them. Also, casting this spell will banish any creatures currently summoned by the mage.


    Telekinesis
    As spell, but no upper limit on class level, and 20lbs/mage level rather than 15

    Call Lightning Storm
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    As normal, but may only call 10 bolts, and the same target can only be struck once per use of the spell




    Ice storm
    Spoiler
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    As normal, but the hailstones remain on the ground until melting as normal, and can be thrown at enemies using “gust of wind”


    Transmute rock to mud/mud to rock
    As normal.

    Wall of stone
    As normal

    Control weather, Control winds
    As normal,

    Reverse Gravity
    Spoiler
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    As normal, except gravity can be altered in any direction (sideways, away from you, etc) it affects a 10ft cube/mage level rather than/2levels, and it can be used to double the gravity on enemies, knocking them prone and dealing 1d4 nonlethal damage. extra "cubes" can also be used up to increase the nonlethal damage by one extra d4 per cube used.
    Reflex save negates being knocked prone, and halves the nonlethal damage.
    Unlike the normal version of the spell, having wings or other flight capabilities does NOT allow you to ignore or avoid the effect of a mages reversed gravity.


    Earthquake
    Spoiler
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    As normal, except instead of creating fissures with a chance to draw targets in, it cracks and tears up the ground, leaving jutting outcroppings of rock wherever its used. It still knocks down all targets within the area


    Freezing Blizzard
    Spoiler
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    As incendiary cloud, but deals cold damage, can be cast underwater, and has a radius of 20ft+5ft per caster level


    Whirlwind
    As normal

    Summon Natures Ally IX
    Spoiler
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    As normal, except you cannot summon a 9th level creature, instead only summoning 1d3 8th level creatures, and can only summon animals or magical beasts. Aquatic creatures can be summoned inside created water, but will vanish when there is no longer enough water to support them.


    Mages fury
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    A giant, shining sigil appears in the sky 100ft up.
    A 50ft radius beneath the sigil, reaching up to just beneath it, is affected by reversed gravity with no save. As the landscape is torn up by the reversed gravity (as the mages earthquake), every target in this area is pulled upwards, regardless of whether they would be able to resist a reversed gravity effect normally.
    After they reach the sigil 100ft in the air, it expands and propels them downwards, dealing 10d6 falling damage to each of them, and effecting them with the mages freeze effect upon impact, and a whirlwind then triggers in the spells area of effect, moving randomly for 1d8 rounds.
    After using this spell, the mage falls unconscious for 1d8 rounds (at the beginning of the formation
    Last edited by zegram 33; 2012-05-02 at 09:36 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: The Mage

    reserved for edits/extra content
    All ready for PEACH-ing
    Last edited by zegram 33; 2011-12-12 at 04:42 PM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Just to Browse's Avatar

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    Nov 2011

    Default Re: The Mage

    Tables: You're doin' it wrong.

    You can probably cut out a few of those unecessary lines between each class level.

    CRITIQUE:
    Mage's Focus: Why the restriction on level for spellcasting?

    Elemental Channeling: This smells like Druid. I'd change this to a more iconic "magic missile" style effect. Make it typeless so no energy resistance can bypass it (which is what you effectively already gave the mage by allowing 4 different energy types), and make it a ranged touch attack instead of forcing a save.

    The scaling ability damage is also bothersome; I recommend some other form of upgrade, like auto-hitting or knockback or prone.

    Create Water: This seems like a bit much. It's a SoD, and scales to an AoE SoD without the save dropping much... Others should comment here, but it puts me off.

    Sleep: Welcome to Winning Encounters 101: Always Use Sleep. 'Nuff said.

    Gust of Wind: Very useful, but doesn't win encounters the way Sleep does.

    I skimmed the rest of the class from here--it's all a bunch of standard action options. You literally have almost nothing to do with your swift actions (except once per combat when you use your focus), and nothing to do with your move actions, and no passives. That leads to A) Option paralysis, and B) Only a moderately flexible character with weak survivability.

    I recommend perhaps making 2 branches of character abilities, and tacking on a passive/utility track for levels like 3,6,9, etc when you're getting your feats.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: The Mage

    ok, hoping to address your concerns
    i THINK the table is pretty much fixed now, although it did have a few crazy stages lol.

    Mages focus:just a bit concerned that being able to drop 2 sleep's or create waters or what have you for a bit TOO much carnage, and also, because his only vaguely effective damage spells are 10th level or late and i dont want it to be a direct damager quite so much as a controller. may change that though.

    Elemental Channeling: I had considered making it either damage OR ability damage, or also maybe having it as a set damage, rising once at level 13 say, and adding ability damage at level 7 (again, thats just an example)
    i quite like the elemental-ness, sinc frankly imo a mage needs fire ice and lightning, and there are no fire spells that seemed useful/quirky enough to add in, but werent just direct damage all the way

    Create water: its not so much a SoD since (i believe) creatures can hold their breath for a number of rounds equal to their Con modifier, and every round they can attempt to break free of the current and swim out. it could kill peons, but anything undead, or anything of decent level, should be able to swim right the hell out. I was intending to say something about melee weapons and maybe attack spells being deflected by the currents to prevent cheesing people to death with that every turn. EDIT: creatures can hold there breath for a number of rounds equal to 2x their HD, so yeh, it probably wont be killing anything much.

    Sleep:im pretty certain that the wizard/sorceror gets access to more powerful sleep spells quicker, and with an AoE (i know they can only cast them a few times a day though...maybe the mages version can only effect each target once?)

    gust of wind: was more intended as something to put into your focus, and then throw enemies sideways into a water bubble, or push them back into it, or such

    as for the passives and swift actions etc: i see what you mean, but i cant think of much to give it, since it already has at will casting i wanna be extremley careful lol. The only thought i DID have for this, is an upgrade to let you fill the mages focus as a move, then as a swift action, so it can be used more easily in an actual battle

    and as for utility tree's:one of my main aims with this class was that rather than having umpteen billion spells, it had a few that could be utility or combat or anything. ie: rather than using knock to bust in a door, he'd create water there to freeze it, then shatter it with a strike of lightning, etc, etc.
    i did also think about some kind of telekinesis on his staff, to put ropes to higher places, move items around, and generally just as pure utility, but wasnt sure if that would be helpful in situations other than a few extremley specialised ones.

    as yet another thing i've only just considered, what about adding in at about 16th level a "signature move" passive set where at say 7th 9th, 12th, and 15th levels (you can choose one effect of one spell (range, area of effect, damage, ability damage, etc) which will from then on be x1.5 whenever that spell is used (after the dice rolls, if there are any)
    Last edited by zegram 33; 2012-01-02 at 06:55 AM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Wavelab's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Mage

    Well I like it a lot. I wouldn't mind playing this class for the pure reason, that I hate having to go through a bunch of spells and select a few.

    A question: How does metamagic work, and was the familiar left out on purpose?
    Extended Hombrew Signature

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: The Mage

    familiar was kinda replaced by the mages focus. they're pretty interchangeable once you get the distance spellcasting for it.

    as for metamagic: at the end of the "how" section i'v mentioned that you cant use any metamagic that would increase the spell level of the spell, anything else is currently fair game. though given the "wallotext" factor of that section i can see how it could be missed lol

    and yes, i totally agree that that is a plus, your always completley familiar with the spells that you do have.

    EDIT: added in the "signature spell" passives which hopefully add a bit more customization. added a clause into "sleep" to make the save scale versus the number of times you've sleep'd the target.
    added a section to "create water" on how water moves once it has been create, basically letting you make waves with it.
    also, removed the cap on mages focus, for the time being (since its once per encounter, essentially)
    Last edited by zegram 33; 2011-12-13 at 07:07 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: The Mage

    bump?
    i know its pretty lengthy as classes go, but yeh lol

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: The Mage: Please PEACH, alternative caster

    hmn...
    I'm guessing its not lighting people on fire then (or swamping them under a wall of water, as the case may be )
    can anyone see of any glaring problems with the class that ar turning people off, or just no interest?
    Last edited by zegram 33; 2012-01-02 at 06:14 AM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Dsurion's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Mage: at will caster, please PEACH

    I can't really comment too much on the mechanics themselves, but I can say that I really like it.

    However, is there any reason that, seeing as this already follows the basic premise of the Warlock, you didn't design it like one instead?

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: The Mage: at will caster, please PEACH

    Thank you, thats very kind

    and...honestly, not really.
    if i'm totally honest, i'd never actually read the warlocks description, and after doing so, it does have a similar spell learning mechanic (so much or that uniqueness)

    so yeh, essentially, theres no real reason i didnt folow that.

    the main concept i went into this class with was (spoilered for downsizing)
    Spoiler
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    "totally at will caster, small spell selection, but those spells are useful in many ways each, reliant on player ingenuity most of all"

    after realising that there were only VERY few spells I considered right for the class, I removed my original system (which was basically at will casting a select spell list, but 2 levels behind the levels a wizard could learn spells of that level) and instead just had them as learnt per level.

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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: The Mage: at will caster, please PEACH

    This is a really cool concept. It's always good to have more classes that encourage creative use of abilities. But it would be nice to have more spells to choose from, so not every mage has the exact same repertoire. Maybe add a shapeable wall of fire spell, a transposition-style spell, etc. I'm also not sure about the balance of the class: it's barely stronger than a commoner at 1st level but most of its abilities (especially the ranges of spells) scale rapidly.

    On to more specific comments:

    Skill Points: The skill points at 1st level and the skill points at each additional level don't match.

    Weapon Proficiencies: There are probably no mechanical problems with this, but it just doesn't feel right to me that a mage, especially with the current "combat training" fluff, requires a quarterstaff to cast spells but can't use it as a weapon.

    Mage's Focus: The 19th-level ability does nothing, since you have no other uses for swift actions anyway.

    Sleep: This spell seems a bit out of place considering the mage's other spells, and it's also the least interesting one. I'd suggest removing it.
    Last edited by Tarvon000; 2012-06-02 at 05:27 PM.

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    Default Re: The Mage: at will caster, please PEACH

    While I love the idea, I hate the execution. My problem is that it forces you to only have a tiny amount of specific spells for that class. To have any real diversity with mages at all you would need at least seven mage classes.

    Also how do you charge the Focus is it a free action, Standard Action or what? I'm guessing most of the abilities are the same as the spells they are based on but you didn't give any sign for Mages Fury or Mages Focus.

    And lastly, using the water currents to immobilize foes is completely useless unless you use Signature Spell on it at least twice for its save DC, and I'd rather spend Signature Spell on other things.
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    Default Re: The Mage: at will caster, please PEACH

    @Tarvon000
    This is a really cool concept. It's always good to have more classes that encourage creative use of abilities. But it would be nice to have more spells to choose from, so not every mage has the exact same repertoire. Maybe add a shapeable wall of fire spell, a transposition-style spell, etc. I'm also not sure about the balance of the class: it's barely stronger than a commoner at 1st level but most of its abilities (especially the ranges of spells) scale rapidly.
    hmn... yes i see your point on that. ive been thinking of a kind of "branching" set-up. so at every level that would grant a spell, you have three options "direct damage/crowd control" "utility/transport" and "buff/debuff" for want of a better word. would this be worth pursuing would you say?

    Skill Points: The skill points at 1st level and the skill points at each additional level don't match.
    That is a very good point. fixed

    Weapon Proficiencies: There are probably no mechanical problems with this, but it just doesn't feel right to me that a mage, especially with the current "combat training" fluff, requires a quarterstaff to cast spells but can't use it as a weapon.
    i think this was intended to make the mage entirely ineffectual in combat, but if i'm honest, looking at it now, i agree with you. fixed

    Mage's Focus: The 19th-level ability does nothing, since you have no other uses for swift actions anyway.
    yeh, im really not sure about the mages focus as a feature, if im honest, it was kinda tacked on when i realised he had nothing to do except stand at the back every turn. what about if instead, the signature spell included the ability to drop a spells casting time down by 1 step? would that be rather overpowered?

    Sleep: This spell seems a bit out of place considering the mage's other spells, and it's also the least interesting one. I'd suggest removing it
    yeh, it was mainly added when i realised i had no real combat ability until much later other than that. if the progression system above gets good feedback it'll be stripped out in the update.

    @Milo v3
    While I love the idea, I hate the execution. My problem is that it forces you to only have a tiny amount of specific spells for that class. To have any real diversity with mages at all you would need at least seven mage classes.
    again, would this be improved/removed as an issue by the idea i outline above? the three columned progression?

    Also how do you charge the Focus is it a free action, Standard Action or what? I'm guessing most of the abilities are the same as the spells they are based on but you didn't give any sign for Mages Fury or Mages Focus.
    charging the focus was intended to be a standard action but i neglected to mention that. as above, not sure about the focus as a concept.


    And lastly, using the water currents to immobilize foes is completely useless unless you use Signature Spell on it at least twice for its save DC, and I'd rather spend Signature Spell on other things.
    this i disagree with. the save DC is intentionally very low so that most anything can escape early on. but escaping the current means you still have to swim out of what quickly becomes a massive ball of water which can itsef be moved around, and which may be filled with a swarm of summond sharks, can be frozen, etc) the spell itself isnt fantastic, but its more of a "set-up" to spell combos with his other abilities.

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    Default Re: The Mage: at will caster, please PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by zegram 33 View Post
    again, would this be improved/removed as an issue by the idea i outline above? the three columned progression?
    It would be improved, but no where near fixed. Most people dislike the sorcerer for the same reason I dislike this class, the amazingly limited supply of spells. While it is "balanced out" with improving each one and making it at will, it's scope will still be amazingly limited.


    charging the focus was intended to be a standard action but i neglected to mention that. as above, not sure about the focus as a concept.
    And what about Mages Fury?

    this i disagree with. the save DC is intentionally very low so that most anything can escape early on. but escaping the current means you still have to swim out of what quickly becomes a massive ball of water which can itsef be moved around, and which may be filled with a swarm of summond sharks, can be frozen, etc) the spell itself isnt fantastic, but its more of a "set-up" to spell combos with his other abilities.
    At low levels though the ability is basically useless as the low DC, combined with a lack of combinable abilities, and tiny space of the water. Nearly all enemies will succeed on the DC and then swim out in one turn. At the level you get it, it only takes up is 2 5 feet by 5 feet cubes of water. So a creature only needs to swim 5 feet to escape in most situations.

    Until you reach 4th level Create Water is nearly useless except for drinking and annoying weak enemies.
    Last edited by Milo v3; 2012-06-11 at 06:54 PM.
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    Default Re: The Mage: at will caster, please PEACH

    fury would be a full round action, but again, its kinda a placehlder until i can think of a capstone that fits this class better.

    It would be improved, but no where near fixed. Most people dislike the sorcerer for the same reason I dislike this class, the amazingly limited supply of spells. While it is "balanced out" with improving each one and making it at will, it's scope will still be amazingly limited.
    thats one way of looking at it, but the entire class concept is that is ISNT limited. a good wizard has a specific spell for every possible occasion.

    this takes the opposite route, saying that you can do most things with the right application of basic spells.
    want flight? gust of wind jump, then reverse gravity to hover.
    instead of knock, freeze a door then shatter it.

    i dont think the scope is as limited as you feel it is, since the whole thing was designed so that each basic spell interacts with most other spells (thats also why each of the "basic" spells are more complicated than i'd like)

    At low levels though the ability is basically useless as the low DC, combined with a lack of combinable abilities, and tiny space of the water. Nearly all enemies will succeed on the DC and then swim out in one turn. At the level you get it, it only takes up is 2 5 feet by 5 feet cubes of water. So a creature only needs to swim 5 feet to escape in most situations.

    Until you reach 4th level Create Water is nearly useless except for drinking and annoying weak enemies.
    this is true, but wizards and sorcerors are also pretty poor until 5th level ish. its part of the whole "linear fighters, quadratic wizards" thingy (imo at least)

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    Default Re: The Mage: at will caster, please PEACH

    I like the idea of the class, being an arcane elementalist with neat combos and not dealing with the spells per day of normal casters, but the mechanics need alot of work. Most notably save DCs, like Create Water's currents ("DC = class level" is amazingly low in the first few levels, upping to just fairly low near level 20), Freeze's escape DC (no class with more than 5 levels should have a DC that increases by more than 1 per level), and Signature Spell's save improvements (50% increase!? And it can be taken beyond that!?).

    Consider that a 6th level Mage can use Freeze to lock 3 ogres in place, with no save for the effect and a DC 30 Strength check to escape. Even if the ogres all make the check (is a natural 20 an automatic success on a Str check? 'Cause if it's not, their Str of 21 isn't getting them out...), they still use up their entire turns doing so, meaning one Mage could keep them locked down indefinitely no matter what the DC was. And that's if the Mage DIDN'T use their Signature Spell to increase the DC to a beyond-ridiculous 45. At level 10, Freeze can lock down a gargantuan creature in the same way, while having a DC of 50 (75 or 100, if Signature Spells are used) and slowly killing the targets.

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    Default Re: The Mage: at will caster, please PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by zegram 33 View Post
    fury would be a full round action, but again, its kinda a placehlder until i can think of a capstone that fits this class better.
    Fair Enough.


    thats one way of looking at it, but the entire class concept is that is ISNT limited. a good wizard has a specific spell for every possible occasion.

    this takes the opposite route, saying that you can do most things with the right application of basic spells.
    want flight? gust of wind jump, then reverse gravity to hover.
    instead of knock, freeze a door then shatter it.

    i dont think the scope is as limited as you feel it is, since the whole thing was designed so that each basic spell interacts with most other spells (thats also why each of the "basic" spells are more complicated than i'd like)
    I'm fine with encouraging creativity. I dislike enforcing creativity to remain useful. You shouldn't have to be creative to use a class effectively.


    this is true, but wizards and sorcerors are also pretty poor until 5th level ish. its part of the whole "linear fighters, quadratic wizards" thingy (imo at least)
    So you're going to make your class nearly useless at low levels because some other classes aren't as good as tier 1 in those levels....
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    Default Re: The Mage: at will caster, please PEACH

    I like the idea of the class, being an arcane elementalist with neat combos and not dealing with the spells per day of normal casters, but the mechanics need alot of work. Most notably save DCs, like Create Water's currents ("DC = class level" is amazingly low in the first few levels, upping to just fairly low near level 20), Freeze's escape DC (no class with more than 5 levels should have a DC that increases by more than 1 per level), and Signature Spell's save improvements (50% increase!? And it can be taken beyond that!?).
    you have a very good point.
    thinking i should make "save DC's" a special exception from the signature spell effect.

    freeze's dc is, indeed, ridiculous, but upon rereading it, i forgot to enter in. there was SUPPOSED to be a dc=mages class level dexterity check for that, so that was to try and lock down brutes wheres the create water was to lock down the more nimble but weaker targets.

    upon reflection, whilst i like that idea, the dc's here are very iffy. Do you (or anyone else, of course) have any suggestions for a better dc scaling mechanism?


    I'm fine with encouraging creativity. I dislike enforcing creativity to remain useful. You shouldn't have to be creative to use a class effectively.
    thats fair enough, but the original class concepet was to do that.
    do you have any suggestions for a fix to that?
    as say, if i let you choose a spell for each spell level you still have the ability, you could have more choice as to how you wanted to play it, but im not sure what your suggesting i do.
    (if im honest, im also VERY cautious about the at will mechanic. it's definatley something i like and its the other core of the class, but i was trying to be very careful not to make it absurdly powerful (and as shown, with freeze i kinda failed in places)


    So you're going to make your class nearly useless at low levels because some other classes aren't as good as tier 1 in those levels.
    thats a good point, it isnt ever gonna be as strong as those two.
    if i sort out the dc of the abilities, then would that be strong enough then?
    an immobilisation, movement attack.

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