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    Default Paladin Spells (And now feats) (3.PF) PEACH

    I was thinking about trying to increase the (pathfinder) Paladin to Tier 3. I thought the easiest way was to add some spells to their list.

    Here are some spells I thought it would be good for paladins to have. This is the first time I've ever made spells, so feedback would be most helpful. Please keep topic along the lines of "These spells give the paladin this this and this," not "the paladin needs this this and this."

    Unfettered Stride
    School Transmutation
    Level Paladin 1

    Casting Time 1 standard action
    Components V, DF

    Range Self
    Duration 1 minute/level

    Your movement is not affected by difficult terrain. In addition, you gain a +1 Sacred Bonus to saving throws against effects that would impede your movement (such as entanglement). This bonus increases for every three caster levels you have (at least +1, maximum +3).



    Wings of the Eagle
    School Transmutation (Good)
    Level Paladin 1

    Components: V, DF

    Range: Self
    Duration 1 round/level
    Casting Time: Swift action
    Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

    You sprout a pair of angelic wings from your back, letting you fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 if the subject is carrying a medium or heavy load, or wearing Heavy armor. Medium armor does not slow you). You can ascend at half speed and descend at double speed, and your maneuverability is good.

    Using the Wings of the Eagle spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so you can attack or cast spells normally. You can charge but not run, and you cannot carry aloft more weight than your maximum load, plus any armor you wears. You gain a bonus on Fly skill checks equal to 1/2 your caster level plus your charisma modifier.
    Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet of fall. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also descends safely in this way if the fly spell is dispelled, but not if it is negated by an antimagic field.


    Celestial Steed
    School Transmutation
    Level Paladin 2
    Casting Time 1 Standard action
    Components: V, F
    Range Touch
    Target Bonded Mount
    Duration 1 Minute/Level

    You bestow upon your steed the aspect of a holy charger, causing it to grow a pair of angelic wings. It gains a Fly speed double to its base land speed (Good maneuverability), and all of its attacks count as Good for the purpose of overcoming DR.


    Holy Inspiration

    School Divination
    Level Paladin 2
    Casting Time 1 minute
    Components V, DF, M (incense worth at least 25 gp)

    Range personal
    Target you
    Duration instantaneous

    You say a prayer to the powers of justice (or your patron deity) asking for some form of revelation concerning your current quest.
    The answer comes in the form of the most useful piece of information you could possibly receive. This revelation could take the form of words or a vision. The base chance for receiving a meaningful reply is 70% + 1% per caster level, to a maximum of 90%; this roll is made secretly.

    If the roll fails, you get nothing. Also, if your quest is not of a true and noble purpose (its completion would result in the caster Falling) you are warned to turn from your present course.


    Warded Shield

    School Abjuration
    Level Paladin 3
    Casting Time: 1 Swift Action
    Components: V, S, F (any wielded shield)
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 1 minute/level

    You layer magical wards onto your shield, enabling it to add additional protection against magical attacks. You can add your shield bonus plus an extra +1 per four levels up to +5 to your AC vs magical ray effects, and saving throws.

    Champion of the Gods
    School Transmutation [Good]
    Paladin 3
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Instantaneous

    As the might of divine fury pulses within you, and you pass judgment on an evil soul, your weapon charges with holy power and cuts a devastating blow that softens even the mightiest ogre's swings.

    You may only cast this spell immediately after declaring a target for your Smite Evil class feature. When you cast this spell, choose an ability score (Strength, Constitution, etc). For the duration of your Smite Evil effect, all successful melee attacks you make against that creature force it to make a Will saving throw (DC 12+your Charisma modifier) or take 1d4 points of the chosen ability damage (A successful saving throw negates the damage from that attack). This ability only applies to the first successful attack you make each round against that creature. Additionally, your faith protects you against the creature's dark magicks. For the duration of your Smite Evil effect, you gain SR equal to 12+your paladin level against spells and spell-like abilities cast by the target of your Smite Evil effect.
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    Minor Miracle
    School Evocation
    Level Paladin 4
    Casting Time 1 standard action
    Components V, S; See text
    EFFECT

    Range see text
    Target, Effect, or Area see text
    Duration see text
    Saving Throw see text; Spell Resistance yes

    You don't so much cast a minor miracle as request one. You state what you would like to have happen and request that your deity (or the power you pray to for spells) intercede.

    A minor miracle can do any of the following things.

    Duplicate any spell of 3th level or lower.
    Undo the harmful effects of certain spells, such as feeblemind or insanity.
    Have any effect whose power level is in line with the above effects.

    A duplicated spell allows saving throws and spell resistance as normal, but the Save DC is for a 4th level spell. If the Minor Miracle is used to duplicate a spell with a material component costing more than 100 gp, the component must be provided.


    In addition to these spells, I've come up with a feat that ties into this.

    Spellsmiter
    Prerequisites: Smite Evil, ability to cast level-1 spells

    Benefit: You receive a Sacred bonus to the Save DCs of any spell you cast against the target of your smite equal to your Charisma modifier. In addition, your spells ignore any SR the target may have.
    Last edited by Maquise; 2013-05-02 at 12:41 PM.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Although I'm a fan of boosting the Paladin, Wings of the Eagle is probably too good for a level 1 spell. If you make it a level 2 spell, a Paladin gets access to it at level 7, a level after Sorcerers can get Fly, which is probably better, IMO...
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Ya. Ditto on the low-leveled ness of that. However, I like this initiative; I'd recommend looking through the Bard and Cleric lists for some good buffs and attacks (Flame Strike anyone? "GOD JUDGES YOU WITH FIRE!").
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    How about if I make Wings of the Eagle level 2, and add a spell like this to level 1?

    Unfettered Stride

    School Transmutation
    Level Paladin 1

    Casting Time 1 standard action
    Components V, DF

    Range Self
    Duration 1 minute/level

    Your movement is not affected by difficult terrain. In addition, you gain a +1 Sacred Bonus to saving throws against effects that would impede your movement (such as entanglement). This bonus increases for every three caster levels you have (at least +1, maximum +3).
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    I agree that Wings of the Eagle on its power level but I posit instead reducing the duration to to rounds/level, making it a combat spell, which fits more with Paladins in my book. Possibly making it a Swift action cast as well. Druids and Wizards got away with flying with 2nd level spells in 3.5, so why not now?

    For Minor Miracle, I think you're a tad over zealous with it, as going by Miracle and Wish, it allows duplicating any spell of a level lower on your list and spells of 2 levels lower on any other list. What I'd do is make it flat 3rd level for duplication, which gives it a punch but doesn't just become the Pally Anyspell that it currently is. You also say "see text" for components but then don't say anything about it. If you're not sure what to go by on that front, Limited Wish comes online at that level, so you may want to use that as a guideline for that and what type of effects you want it to generate.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Sure. I'd edit it into the OP, if possible.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    I don't know how it works in Pathfinder, but in 3.5, Conjuration spells always have one of five subschools, no exceptions. I believe Wings of the Eagle would be a Conjuration (Creation) effect.

    Here's another spell that might help:

    Champion of the Gods
    Abjuration/Evocation [Good]
    Paladin 2
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Instantaneous

    As the might of divine fury pulses within you, and you pass judgment on an evil soul, your weapon charges with holy power and cuts a devastating blow that softens even the mightiest ogre's swings.

    You may only cast this spell immediately after declaring a target for your Smite Evil class feature. When you cast this spell, choose an ability score (Strength, Constitution, etc). For the duration of your Smite Evil effect, all successful melee attacks you make against that creature force it to make a saving throw (DC 12+your Charisma modifier) or take 1d4 points of the chosen ability damage (A successful saving throw negates the damage from that attack). This ability only applies to the first successful attack you make each round against that creature. Additionally, your faith protects you against the creature's dark magicks. For the duration of your Smite Evil effect, you gain SR equal to 12+your paladin level against spells and spell-like abilities cast by the target of your Smite Evil effect.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-14 at 10:25 PM.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Original Post has been edited. Added Unfettered Stride, edited Wings of the Eagle and Minor Miracle.

    Anything else? How does Holy Inspiration look? I was a little concerned that it might be closer to a level 3 spell in power.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    If they're Paladin-only, you don't really need to give it an arcane school.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    If they're Paladin-only, you don't really need to give it an arcane school.
    Sorry? All spells have schools, subschools and such. Heck, most conjuration (healing) spells are cleric/druid/bard, not sorc/wiz.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    I still say Wings of the Eagle is a tad too strong for a 1st level spell, even counting rounds per level. Swift Fly, which is a 2nd level spell for most people (druids get it at 3rd), lasts only for 1 round. Paladins would get an exclusive version for combat, but I don't think it'd be any better than just taking Animal Devotion, since you can get the wings for them as well, and they last for 1 minute. I do like the idea of an Air Walk-ish ability you can cast on yourself or your special mount, though, at those levels: it's closer to what a Paladin would work with. I'd keep Wings of the Eagle, but at 2nd level, and maybe give them an extra bonus (being "Wings of the Eagle", I'd also give a bonus to Charisma, because they definitely need it).

    Unfettered Stride would work wonders on a Ranger; not so much for a Pally. Perhaps it's just me, but it's basically lacking something. I'd make it so that you'd ignore movement restrictions when wearing armor, and probably Armor Check Penalty with Climb and Jump checks as well. The bonus on saving throws against anything that FoM blocks is decent, but not something overwhelming, and it doesn't affect other things. I'd also grant the bonus to Strength checks to break from an entangling fetter (such as the Web spell), or to escape from grapples. That might make it all purpose, though.

    Holy Inspiration and Minor Miracle, on the other hand, are kinda iffy. The former is a nerfed Divination, while the latter is basically Limited Wish but exclusive to one class, whereas the one that DOES have Miracle doesn't get something like that. Really don't find any feel for them, particularly for the latter: while I wouldn't protest to grant the Paladin a very nice spell that worked for many purposes as a 4th level spell, it doesn't feel appropriate from a fluff perspective. Then again, I find Miracle and Wish shouldn't be spells (rituals, at the very least).

    Pitching on what a Paladin should get, on the other hand... Some spells that boost offensive would be great. Flame of Faith, Deafening Clang, Rhino's Rush, Divine Sacrifice (all SpC), Blessing of the Righteous and Meteoric Strike (PHB II) work nicely, though some levels could use a change (Meteoric Strike should be a 3rd level spell, because 3rd level Paladin spells could use some boost). Something along those lines would be nice, particularly if you could add some fluffy banes: for example, Undead Bane Weapon works excellently for undead creatures, but nothing for evil outsiders? I'd love to see a few more retribution spells (spells that make hitting the Paladin or his/her allies a bad idea) added to the list as well. Some more spells enabling actions would be very useful: say, a spell that allows you to turn the area you walk into difficult terrain, or a spell that grants you Combat Reflexes and allows you to use your Wisdom or Charisma to determine attacks of opportunity, or a spell that you can use as an immediate action, allows you to attack as if an AoO (but without expending your AoO) and deal extra damage if the enemy attacks a nearby ally.

    As a good point of consideration: a 1st level paladin spell should be as good as a great 1st level spell or a poor 2nd level spell for any proper spellcasting class, a 2nd level paladin spell should be as good as a great 2nd level spell or a decent 3rd level spell, a 3rd level spell should be as good as a great 3rd or 4th level spell, and a 4th level paladin spell should be as great as a 5th or 6th level spell.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar View Post
    I still say Wings of the Eagle is a tad too strong for a 1st level spell, even counting rounds per level. Swift Fly, which is a 2nd level spell for most people (druids get it at 3rd), lasts only for 1 round. Paladins would get an exclusive version for combat, but I don't think it'd be any better than just taking Animal Devotion, since you can get the wings for them as well, and they last for 1 minute. I do like the idea of an Air Walk-ish ability you can cast on yourself or your special mount, though, at those levels: it's closer to what a Paladin would work with. I'd keep Wings of the Eagle, but at 2nd level, and maybe give them an extra bonus (being "Wings of the Eagle", I'd also give a bonus to Charisma, because they definitely need it).
    I don't know. Swift fly lasts one round and is available at 3rd, fly lasts 1 min/level and is available at 5th, so why can't wings of the eagle be 1 rd/level and available at 4th? Seems like a logical progression to me.

    Pitching on what a Paladin should get, on the other hand... Some spells that boost offensive would be great. Flame of Faith, Deafening Clang, Rhino's Rush, Divine Sacrifice (all SpC), Blessing of the Righteous and Meteoric Strike (PHB II) work nicely, though some levels could use a change
    I don't understand. These are all already paladin spells. Are you suggesting these as his prepared spells or what?
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-13 at 01:11 PM.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Have you considered changing the paladin spell progression? In my games they have something closer to bard, allowing spells of up to 6th level from the cleric spell list. We do the same with ranger, with druid spells or grant him a sneak attack-like ability (we call it critical shot) to bring them up to par.

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    Wings of the Eagle
    School Conjuration
    Level Paladin 1

    Components: V, DF

    Range: Self
    Duration 1 round/level
    Casting Time: Swift action
    Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

    You sprout a pair of angelic wings from your back, letting you fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 if the subject is carrying a medium or heavy load, or wearing Heavy armor. Medium armor does not slow you). You can ascend at half speed and descend at double speed, and your maneuverability is good.

    Using the Wings of the Eagle spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so you can attack or cast spells normally. You can charge but not run, and you cannot carry aloft more weight than your maximum load, plus any armor you wears. You gain a bonus on Fly skill checks equal to 1/2 your caster level plus your charisma modifier.
    Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet of fall. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also descends safely in this way if the fly spell is dispelled, but not if it is negated by an antimagic field.


    I would change it to level 2 (as most people stated), and grant the paladin a +4 bonus to charisma. That turns it into a nasty combat spell, that does not lend itself to abuse through scrolls or potions. The duration is what keeps everything in check.

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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by motionmatrix View Post

    I would change it to level 2 (as most people stated), and grant the paladin a +4 bonus to charisma. That turns it into a nasty combat spell, that does not lend itself to abuse through scrolls or potions. The duration is what keeps everything in check.
    You can't make a potion of a spell with a range of personal anyway.

    And the problem with a +4 bonus to Charisma is that eagle's splendor is already a 2nd level paladin spell, so clearly what you're considering is too powerful.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    If they're Paladin-only, you don't really need to give it an arcane school.
    And then what school will it (or items involving it) detect as? Which specialist wizards will get a bonus or penalty on spellcraft checks to detect it?

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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Seraphi, your earlier post must've ninja'd me. I'll make sure to add the subschool to Wings of the Eagle.

    As for Champion of the Gods, Smite Evil already automatically ignores DR, so something else is needed.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Maquise View Post
    Seraphi, your earlier post must've ninja'd me. I'll make sure to add the subschool to Wings of the Eagle.

    As for Champion of the Gods, Smite Evil already automatically ignores DR, so something else is needed.
    You're right. Still, the ability to ignore regeneration is really nice, but I'll remove that and come up with something else...hmm...

    Edit: There we go! For the offense, ignore hardness and regeneration. For the defense, SR 12+level...nah. The defense is good, but regeneration is just too uncommon...I need something more realistic. Hold on.

    Edit: There we go! Ability damage! Oops, gotta add the [Good] descriptor, but then it'll be perfect.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-13 at 01:58 PM.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Actually, if we were most correct about it, Wings of the Eagle should probably be a Transmutation, since you're changing yourself, not making wings and attaching them like you were Daedalus or something.

    An additional thing on the perceived power, you should compare the spell to Master Air, the 2nd level Druid spell that gives flight for rounds/level. No self-respecting Druid bothers with Swift Fly when they have that. Considering a Pally is only getting 1 or 2 spells at 4th, getting 1 round of flight (CL 1, remember?) isn't breaking the bank when the full casters are throwing around fire and holy smitings of their own.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    I could be wrong, but now it seems like Champion of the Gods is a bit too strong for 2nd level. I'll post it, and see what people think.

    Also, here's one whose level I can't place. I'm thinking 2nd level.

    Warded Shield

    School Abjuration
    Level Paladin 2
    Casting Time: 1 Swift Action
    Components: V, S, F (any wielded shield)
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 1 minute/level

    You layer magical wards onto your shield, enabling it to add additional protection against magical attacks. You can add your shield bonus plus an extra +1 per four levels up to +5 to your AC vs magical ray effects, and saving throws.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Actually, if we were most correct about it, Wings of the Eagle should probably be a Transmutation, since you're changing yourself, not making wings and attaching them like you were Daedalus or something.
    This is a good point. I agree, Transmutation would be the correct school.

    An additional thing on the perceived power, you should compare the spell to Master Air, the 2nd level Druid spell that gives flight for rounds/level. No self-respecting Druid bothers with Swift Fly when they have that. Considering a Pally is only getting 1 or 2 spells at 4th, getting 1 round of flight (CL 1, remember?) isn't breaking the bank when the full casters are throwing around fire and holy smitings of their own.
    And another good point. What's the source for master air anyway?
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Considering a Pally is only getting 1 or 2 spells at 4th, getting 1 round of flight (CL 1, remember?) isn't breaking the bank when the full casters are throwing around fire and holy smitings of their own.
    Also considering that this is for Pathfinder, the Magical Knack trait from the Advanced Player's Guide is pretty strong for low-level Paladins, since it effectively boosts their CL to Level -1 rather than Level -3.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Also considering that this is for Pathfinder, the Magical Knack trait from the Advanced Player's Guide is pretty strong for low-level Paladins, since it effectively boosts their CL to Level -1 rather than Level -3.
    That is a good option, assuming traits don't take up feat slots. Then a Paladin 20 can have a CL 19. Whew. That's way different than 3.5. Go PF paladins!
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    And the problem with a +4 bonus to Charisma is that eagle's splendor is already a 2nd level paladin spell, so clearly what you're considering is too powerful.
    A +2 enhancement bonus to Charisma and flight for rounds/level isn't that powerful, which is what I would have aimed off. That, or +2 sacred bonus so that it became much more powerful later on (because then it'd stack with Eagle's Splendor and others).

    Still, regarding your first reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    I don't know. Swift fly lasts one round and is available at 3rd, fly lasts 1 min/level and is available at 5th, so why can't wings of the eagle be 1 rd/level and available at 4th? Seems like a logical progression to me.
    Perhaps a standard action, round/level flight spell might work as a 1st level spell, but it's the swift action that bothers me a bit. I guess I can concede that given it's a self-only spell?

    It becomes slightly stronger if you use 3.5 mechanics instead, though, because that's two rounds of flight right there (instead of one), and as a swift action you can just use it and fly off. The issue balances out at 5th and becomes a non-issue at 7th, but then at 8th level you could migrate the same spell, add a minor benefit that makes it worthwhile (and different from Master Air, may I add), and still get a suitable benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    I don't understand. These are all already paladin spells. Are you suggesting these as his prepared spells or what?
    Of course not. I was suggesting that, since the Paladin gets spells like that, the OP should make one or two spells that complete that list, preferably at earlier levels when the Paladin needs to spend his/her slots on something useful in combat but not too specific.

    As an example: Flame of Faith is a bit so-so because Flaming Burst is great, but fire resistance exists everywhere. A Shocking (not Shocking Burst) equivalent could be a 2nd level spell, or maybe a Thundering-imbuing spell. That reinforces damage from Paladins a bit, if they are to compete with maneuver users and spellcasters (it IS a 3.PF thread, after all). Ways to turn spells into special options from attacks (a spell that imbues the Paladin with the ability to turn their first attack into a dazing attack against enemies to which s/he uses Smite Evil, for example) should be an option, and I simply mentioned spells that already exist so as to give the OP ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    An additional thing on the perceived power, you should compare the spell to Master Air, the 2nd level Druid spell that gives flight for rounds/level. No self-respecting Druid bothers with Swift Fly when they have that. Considering a Pally is only getting 1 or 2 spells at 4th, getting 1 round of flight (CL 1, remember?) isn't breaking the bank when the full casters are throwing around fire and holy smitings of their own.
    That's something I don't like much from Pathfinder, since starting at CL 1st is generally a bad idea when the 3.5 Paladin started at CL 2nd. Two rounds of flight work better than one round, even if at the end they get 16 rounds of flight to the 3.5 Paladin's 10-14 (based on whether you could use Practiced Spellcaster or not). Also, Master Air takes a standard action, whereas Swift Fly takes a swift action, and Quicken Spell is not an option until 11th level. The shift from Standard to Swift is something to consider (do note that the OP is making the spell a swift action). As a 1st level spell, being this meant for "3.PF", an Archivist gets this beauty from 1st level, unless the DM is not so lenient in terms of scrolls (and since a Paladin only needs Scribe Scroll and waste GP, not XP...)
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    I should probably specify something, as I might have made an error.

    When I said 3.PF, I meant that these spells could be used in 3.5. However, I don't have access to much in the way of 3.5 material; all I have is the ToB.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    And another good point. What's the source for master air anyway?
    Spell Compendium is the most recent copy, I'm not sure of its earlier incarnation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Also considering that this is for Pathfinder, the Magical Knack trait from the Advanced Player's Guide is pretty strong for low-level Paladins, since it effectively boosts their CL to Level -1 rather than Level -3.
    I always thought there was a use for that trait, I just never got to thinking about the half-casters. Nice.

    And no, PF characters get 2 traits at no cost to them, though they can pick up more via the Extra Traits feat.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    And the problem with a +4 bonus to Charisma is that eagle's splendor is already a 2nd level paladin spell, so clearly what you're considering is too powerful.
    Not when it lasts 1 round/level. For the most part the spell would act either as a short term movement buff or an enhancement that will have a diminishing effect as magic items step in.

    The OP wanted the paladin to be a Tier 3. Even with the dual spell, he would still very well be tier 3 at best.

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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Champion of the Gods should use the Charisma modifier, if that would make it too powerful reduce the effect rather than basing the DC on a dump stat (that doesn't even work as balancing in a 3.PF game since the player could just take the serenity feat and make their Paladin wis based).

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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Gildes View Post
    Champion of the Gods should use the Charisma modifier, if that would make it too powerful reduce the effect rather than basing the DC on a dump stat (that doesn't even work as balancing in a 3.PF game since the player could just take the serenity feat and make their Paladin wis based).
    I assume Seraphi is working from the 3.5 side, for which Pallys use Wis as their casting stat, not Cha.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Whoops. Didn't know paladins had Cha-based casting in PF. Changing.
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    Default Re: Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    Whoops. Didn't know paladins had Cha-based casting in PF. Changing.
    They reduced Pally MAD in PF by making them all Cha for their specials and spellcasting. I think the didn't want to do a double dip of Wis for silly Will saves via the Serenity path.
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