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    MonkGuy

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    Default Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    So, as far as I'm concerned, the OOTS have a lot of possible endings, some of which we already know (Elan gets a happy ending, Durkon gets to come back home after dying)
    So... How, why and when do you think Tarquin will end up in the comic?

    -He gets killed by
    --Elan
    --Nale
    --Xykon
    -He gets to keep his continent?
    -He dies saving Elan from some threat? (IE: Xykon)
    -He beats the crap out of Xykon, let the OOTS live and rule the whole world? :D

    Ideas? Tell the ending you'd expect and the ending you'd want. Might differ or be the same, who knows xD. Frankly I hope an epic battle like

    Nale, Elan and Tarquin vs Xykon and RedCloak
    Last edited by Dante2001; 2011-12-15 at 10:17 PM.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Tarquin is immortal. Even if he does die, his resurrection will be fueled by the combined power of his fandom.
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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Tarquin will inevitably be killed by either Nale or Elan (If its Nale, then Elan will proceed to off Nale). However, I fully expect Tarquin to collide with Xykon before that happens, there isn't enough room for two major antagonists in this town.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Leecros View Post
    Tarquin is immortal. Even if he does die, his resurrection will be fueled by the combined power of his fandom.
    And that. (The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.)

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    He lives forever, never getting his epic topple that will be written in songs and tales, and spends eternity saddened.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    I like the idea he's done away with by someone besides Elan or Nale. He wants one of his sons to be the one who kills him, as that's dramatically appropriate, but he doesn't deserve that. He shouldn't be allowed to 'win' by his rules.

    Currently, I'm supporting the possibility Xykon does him in. I assume one of the last ways Tarquin would want to die is as fodder for a more prominent villain of more importance to the story. Rather than being the antagonist of an epic where his son musters the strength and resolve to overthrow him, he'll be unceremoniously cast aside just to show the heroes and the audience the power and depravity of a bigger fish. His death won't be the thrilling conclusion of his legend, just a chapter in another villain's.
    Last edited by Talvereaux; 2011-12-16 at 01:33 AM.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Actually, I expect the Snarl, somehow. Tarquin is all about becoming a legend that everyone remembers. It would be very ironic (in a cruel way) if his very existence would be erased and he'll end up forgotten just like Kraagor.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Talvereaux View Post
    Currently, I'm supporting the possibility Xykon does him in. I assume one of the last ways Tarquin would want to die is as fodder for a more prominent villain of more importance to the story. Rather than being the antagonist of an epic where his son musters the strength and resolve to overthrow him, he'll be unceremoniously cast aside just to show the heroes and the audience the power and depravity of a bigger fish. His death won't be the thrilling conclusion of his legend, just a chapter in another villain's.
    I'm hoping that Xykon calls him out as a second-rate wannabe. Hiding behind figureheads? From a bunch of losers who can't hold their own thrones for a year? Even Redcloak's not that much of a wimp.
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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Yendor View Post
    I'm hoping that Xykon calls him out as a second-rate wannabe. Hiding behind figureheads? From a bunch of losers who can't hold their own thrones for a year? Even Redcloak's not that much of a wimp.
    Funny you should say that. For some reason I think X is going to take down Tarquin in a matter of seconds. Tarquin's will be the quick death in OoTS.

    Moments after killing him...
    Who was that guy?
    Some nobody from the desert.

    Sure The Giant has more planned than that though.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    There is a problem with his current plan anyway:

    Right now, no one knows that he really is the Big Bad. If he dies now (like during the Comic's Main Plot)... no one will now who he was, therefore he will not be the legend he wants to be.

    Actually, I fail to understand how he could not see that. He first has to be feared and hates for YEARS so the win of someone over him really is considered big and worthy of legends. If he dies now... no one will really care as everyone thinks he's just some general in an Empire that is only one of dozens of Empires that rise and fall constantly in that region.

    Even if he makes himself known he needs to build a reputation for at least a few years if not decades for his epic work to work.

    His plan is doomed from the start (at least the PR-part is, he DOES get to live like a king for years)... Tarquin has not yet announced himself and he is not getting younger.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Talvereaux View Post
    I like the idea he's done away with by someone besides Elan or Nale. He wants one of his sons to be the one who kills him, as that's dramatically appropriate, but he doesn't deserve that. He shouldn't be allowed to 'win' by his rules.
    I don't know. Roy is the protagonist of this story. And Roy has served as a sort of mentor to Elan. So Roy could still make it dramatic if he kills him. Thus, it can still dramatic and all regardless of who kills Tarquin.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    You missed an obvious one, Tarquin is killed saving his son(s) quite possibly sacrificing himself literally to save the continent and is remembered for that rather than as the legendary figure he describes to Elan.

    After all this person sees things in terms of drama and tropes and who hasn't heard of Darth Vader or the noble foe?

    We have already seen with Azure City what happens when a Gate is blown up, now what if this time Tarquin has to do the same to prevent the release of the Snarl which is really to save his sons but as far as anyone else is concerned he actually saves the people of the continent and is recognised for "that" it would be quite ironic wouldn't it?

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancalagon View Post
    Actually, I fail to understand how he could not see that. He first has to be feared and hates for YEARS so the win of someone over him really is considered big and worthy of legends. If he dies now... no one will really care as everyone thinks he's just some general in an Empire that is only one of dozens of Empires that rise and fall constantly in that region.

    Even if he makes himself known he needs to build a reputation for at least a few years if not decades for his epic work to work.

    His plan is doomed from the start (at least the PR-part is, he DOES get to live like a king for years)... Tarquin has not yet announced himself and he is not getting younger.
    Yes, you're perfectly right. Tarquin's plan, as described, is unworkable. He can't be the secretive puppetmaster and the eternally famous evil overlord at the same time. In fact, he's probably blown it already, because if he doesn't reveal himself he'll die basically unknown, and if he does reveal himself, that will definitely put a major crimp in his manipulations.

    Maybe that's why the gates are so interesting to him -- it's the chance to be the world-trampling tyrant that his own plans deny him.
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    And the late notes soar to a higher range,
    But the theme is still the same.
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    Blend in with the old, old rhyme
    That was traced in the score of the strata marks
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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    I assumed Tarquin's plan included a "This man (and his friends) has (or have) been subjugating the continent for years/decades!" revelation.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    I'm guessing Xykon. The mistake Tarquin's made in dealing with the OotS is that he assumed it was being led by Elan, for no real reason other than because he's his son.
    As the father of the group's leader he's the obvious main bad guy, and whoever they're fighting now can't possibly be as important and is sure to get killed out of the way before he and Elan have their climactic battle.
    So he's going to walk into this basically thinking that genre conventions preserve him until after Xykon is gone, not realizing that he's actually a lesser enemy making an opportunistic grab at usurping big bad status. And that rarely goes well, especially if you're the sort of bad guy who works by manipulating people a lot.
    It takes his genre savviness and and turns it against him due to his arrogance.
    Last edited by Aldrakan; 2011-12-16 at 07:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Psion View Post
    Yes, you're perfectly right. Tarquin's plan, as described, is unworkable. He can't be the secretive puppetmaster and the eternally famous evil overlord at the same time. In fact, he's probably blown it already, because if he doesn't reveal himself he'll die basically unknown, and if he does reveal himself, that will definitely put a major crimp in his manipulations.

    Maybe that's why the gates are so interesting to him -- it's the chance to be the world-trampling tyrant that his own plans deny him.
    I thought being revealed as the puppetmaster (if Elan wins) was the whole point of his plan. You are right, he can't be both at the same time. But he said it himself - his plan is either just remaining the manipulator, or being revealed and becoming a legend.
    Last edited by TinyMushroom; 2011-12-16 at 07:06 PM.
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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    I actually think there's a pretty decent chance the Empress'll be the one who does him in. Two reasons:

    1. Immediately following Tarquin's massive motive monologue (a speech that can basically be boiled down to the oxymoronic "I'm so genre-savvy I'm invincible") she's got a minor cameo in the background. And if she is the one who kills him, then that little cameo suddenly becomes hilarious.

    2. The captive monster doing in their master is a classic trope, and though Tarquin's only captured the Empress with lies and trickery, it still sort of applies. To further this part of the point, there is Tarquin's little obesity gag, which while it doesn't improve the Empress's spellcasting or anything does help her should she simply decide to eat the little bugger.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Death by Empress is an intriguing theory.

    Death by Xykon is still marginally more likely in my opinion, though.
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    So the song runs on, with shift and change,
    Through the years that have no name,
    And the late notes soar to a higher range,
    But the theme is still the same.
    Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
    Blend in with the old, old rhyme
    That was traced in the score of the strata marks
    While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
    Down the winds of unguessed time.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancalagon View Post
    There is a problem with his current plan anyway:

    Right now, no one knows that he really is the Big Bad. If he dies now (like during the Comic's Main Plot)... no one will now who he was, therefore he will not be the legend he wants to be.
    It never ceases to amaze me how many people think that becoming a legend is Tarquin's main plan. How does eveyone keep missing that it's just a bonus he figures he'll get now that Elan has shown back up as a hero?

    Tarquin's main goal has already been accomplished: he's gotten to live a life of luxury as the ruler of nations for decades. Everything else, from further expansion of his empires to becoming a legend, is just icing on the cake for him. This is what he told us back during his conversation with Elan on the matter, yet somehow people keep mistaking the extras for being his main goal, and I really don't know why that is.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Let's not argue what is his main goal and what not. It seems he's serious to Elan about "his End and his Legacy".

    No matter if that is 10% or 50% or 90% of his plan: It is important to him and it is doomed from the very start as he was too successful in making it seem he's just some general before the background of ever-changing empires.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancalagon View Post
    Let's not argue what is his main goal and what not. It seems he's serious to Elan about "his End and his Legacy".

    No matter if that is 10% or 50% or 90% of his plan: It is important to him and it is doomed from the very start as he was too successful in making it seem he's just some general before the background of ever-changing empires.
    Yeah, that's the thing: it's not. It's a bonus he figures he'll get now that Elan has shown up, nothing more. That was my point. Given what he told Elan before, he's not going to be particularly bothered no matter how he meets his end now - he got what he really wanted already, and accepts that it's going to come to an end at some point, likely violently so. What's important to him is that he got to live like a King for so long; all the rest is just a bonus.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Grogmir View Post
    Funny you should say that. For some reason I think X is going to take down Tarquin in a matter of seconds. Tarquin's will be the quick death in OoTS.

    Moments after killing him...
    Who was that guy?
    Some nobody from the desert.
    That's how I imagine it, just right after Tarquin make a speech that he was sure did convince Xykon to side with him.

    Sorry, too long didn' listen. *deathspell*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Yeah, that's the thing: it's not.
    I doubt that. Why does he give the speech as he did to Elan, then? It would have only been to be cruel, but given how he seems to think of his sons, cruelty here for the pure and only sake of cruelty makes no sense.

    His speech must contain at least a grain of truth, where we again are at "10% or more". Even if it's lower, it still makes no sense. But your claim it's 0% does not work out (for me) given what we have seen from Tarquin.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Yeah, that's the thing: it's not. It's a bonus he figures he'll get now that Elan has shown up, nothing more. That was my point. Given what he told Elan before, he's not going to be particularly bothered no matter how he meets his end now - he got what he really wanted already, and accepts that it's going to come to an end at some point, likely violently so. What's important to him is that he got to live like a King for so long; all the rest is just a bonus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancalagon View Post
    I doubt that. Why does he give the speech as he did to Elan, then? It would have only been to be cruel, but given how he seems to think of his sons, cruelty here for the pure and only sake of cruelty makes no sense.

    His speech must contain at least a grain of truth, where we again are at "10% or more". Even if it's lower, it still makes no sense. But your claim it's 0% does not work out (for me) given what we have seen from Tarquin.
    Whereas I'm inclined to disagree with both of you because of thinking his speech--all of it--contains 0% truth. He may believe that it does--he probably does believe that it does--but I don't believe he'd take it philosophically if Elan defeated him and he certainly wouldn't take it philosophically if someone else defeated him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    I'm not sure if your theory holds. It's a very good thought for a "adult Tarquin" but for an "Old Tarquin who knows he has to die someday" and who knows that day is much closer now than it was 20 years ago it surely is a better thought "to live like a king and become legend after death" than "to live like a king and be forgotten".

    Tarquin isn't as self-centered as Nale in regard to what he wants how people perceive him but he does like drama and story. Why should he leave with no one knowing him when he can leave as legend? That part of his story seems to make perfect sense and as thus, I still think his speech to Elan contains more truth than 0%.

    He would not have given it at all in this way. He could have made a big speech about "living as king, and the last ten minutes of suck are worth it". Why all the "epic story" stuff around and following that? It's really not necessary for Tarquin to bloat his story - unless he meant that part. And look at his grin when Elan runs away. He thinks he has "won" again. Why would he think he wins about something he does not care about at all?

    I'm not getting why you say "He believes in it, but it is not his truth". Isn't that some sort of contradiction in itself? Tarquin either believes this is his plan, then the speech contains truth - or he does not.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    I think Tarquin may well believe, when he tells Elan as much, that if he was dying--at the hands of Elan, some random peasant hero, or Xykon--then he would reflect on the fact that he got to live like a king for however long he got to live like a king, and experience no reaction worse than "oh well."

    I think when/if Tarquin is actually dying, his actual reaction will be, "Rargh, no!" even if Elan kills him and doesn't indicate some plan to thwart Tarquin's desire to be a legend, and much worse if Tarquin's death is anything other than the ideal situation he describes.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    I agree he might not ponder this in the "last ten minutes" when he does not have time for such philosophical thoughts and would rather go on living for another 5 or 15 years as king.

    But that's no problem for his general thought on how he'd like to go out. And I think we can also agree he wants to meet that end rather later than sooner. But that again does not touch the fact he meant what he said when he said that.

    And based on that this plan (no matter what his mind might be filled in the moment of death or during the fight before that) is flawed from the start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancalagon View Post
    I doubt that. Why does he give the speech as he did to Elan, then? It would have only been to be cruel, but given how he seems to think of his sons, cruelty here for the pure and only sake of cruelty makes no sense.

    His speech must contain at least a grain of truth, where we again are at "10% or more". Even if it's lower, it still makes no sense. But your claim it's 0% does not work out (for me) given what we have seen from Tarquin.
    I have no idea where you're getting the notion that he was lying to Elan, or even more confusingly "being cruel for the sake of being cruel," if becoming a legend isn't important to him. Because as I said, that's what he told Elan to begin with. The way he framed the whole thing, becoming a legend was just a bonus he now figures he can look forward to, and that's it. Just because he's looking forward to it doesn't mean it's all that important to him if it doesn't happen.

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    "We each decide our own sense of right and wrong. The rest, I leave to my sword." - Yuri Lowell, Tales of Vesperia

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    I have no idea where you're getting the notion that he was lying to Elan, or even more confusingly "being cruel for the sake of being cruel,"
    Me neither. Luckily, I never said what you think I said: I claimed from the start I think he said the truth there. It's Kish who thinks he lied.

    I say he'll never get the bonus because he made an oversight in that plan: He is not known and therefore, no one will connect his fall with any sort of legend or epic tale. And I find that odd that someone as Tarquin misses such a glaring problem. No matter if that is an "integeral part of his life" (90%) or "just a bonus" (10%).
    Last edited by Ancalagon; 2011-12-18 at 11:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Speculation on Tarquin's ending/fate

    Kish isn't saying he lied, or that it isn't his truth. I believe he was saying that it wasn't the truth. I don't like, as someone on these boards put it, 'arguing by proxy' but I believe he meant as in he may say/think he'd be fine with Elan or someone defeating him, but his reaction were it to actually happen would be rather different.

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