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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default [3.5] Champion (base class) Peach

    This is my first genuine attempt at homebrewing, so please let me know what you think. I am simultaneously trying to make fighters less underpowered compared to casters by giving them some general buffing/debuffing abilities and trying to make sword and shield fighting better despite not being able to do as much damage as two weapon fighting or wielding a two handed weapon.

    The champion

    The champion is a leader among men and a talented warrior. His very presence inspires his comrades and strikes fear into the hearts of his foes.

    alignment: any
    hit die: d10
    class skills: climb, craft, diplomacy, handle animal, initmidate, jump, ride, swim
    skill points: 2+int
    Proficient in all simple and martial weapons, as well as all armor and shields


    {table=head] level|base attack bonus|fort|ref|will|special
    1|+1|+2|+0|+0|shield mastery +1, improved shield bash
    2|+2|+3|+0|+0|rally courage +1
    3|+3|+3|+1|+1|intimidation +1
    4|+4|+4|+1|+1|remove fear
    5|+5|+4|+1|+1|shield mastery +2, bonus feat
    6|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2|rally courage +2, stunning shield bash
    7|+7/+2|+5|+2|+2|intimidation +2
    8|+8/+3|+6|+2|+2|bulls strength
    9|+9/+4|+6|+3|+3|shield mastery +3
    10|+10/+5|+7|+3|+3|rally courage+3 bonus feat
    11|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+3|intimidation +3 improved cleave
    12|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+4|dispel magic
    13|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+4|shield mastery+4
    14|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+4|rally courage +4
    15|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+5|intimidation +4, bonus feat
    16|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+5|spell resistance, shield knockback
    17|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+5|shield mastery +5
    18|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+6|rally courage +5
    19|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+6|intimidation +5
    20|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+6|greater dispel, bonus feat
    [/table]




    shield mastery: the champions prowess at fighting with a shield allows him a +1 added to his shield bonus at first level, +2 at 5th, +3 at 9th, etc.
    ex: if a level 3 Champion was wielding a large steel shield his shield bonus to AC would be 3
    Note: he must be wielding the shield in his off hand

    rally courage: champions are exceptional at rallying others to their cause, a champion can rally courage oncer per day +charisma modifier
    (assuming it is 0 or greater, this grants the champion and his allies with in 30 ft diameter a bonus to all attack rolls,
    damage rolls, and saves
    the bonus is +1 at level 2, +2 at level 6, +3 at level 10, +4 at level 14, and +5 at level 18
    this is a standard action that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity

    Intimidation: as an experienced warrior a champion can fill his enemies with fear and doubt, causing them to take a morale penalty to attack rolls,
    damage rolls, and saving throws. The champion can intimidate once per day +charisma modifier (assuming it is 0 or greater),
    the Intimidation affects a 30 ft diameter around the champion
    the penalty is -1 at level 3, -2 at level 7, -3 at level 11, -4 at level 15, and -5 at level 19
    will negates (DC 10+cha modifier +1/2 champion level)
    this is a standard action that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity

    Remove fear: a champions courage inspires those around him, so at level four, oncer per day +cha modifier (assuming it is 0 or greater) a champion
    can remove fear as a cleric of equal class would
    this is a spell like ability

    Improved shield bash: mastery of his fighting style allows a champion to use his shield as a weapon, granting him the improved shield bash feat at
    1st level

    bonus feat: at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th level the champion can select a feat from the fighter bonus feat list

    Stunning shield bash: The champion's shield bashes are more forceful, once per day +cha modifier (assuming it is 0 or greater) the shield bash can
    stun an enemy fortitude negates (10+1/2 champion level+str modifier)

    Bull's strength: The champion has the ability to gain bursts of strength, once per day +cha modifier (assuming 0 or greater) the champion can use
    bull's strength on himself as a spellcaster of equal class levels, this is a spell like ability

    improved cleave: the momentum from the champions first kill provides him with additional force on his next attack, when a champion cleaves the
    critical threat range for his weapon doubles, this stacks with improved critical or keen weapons

    dispel magic: The champions force of will and ability to shape a battlefield even affect magic. Once per day + cha modifier (assuming 0 or greater)
    the champion can cast dispel magic as an equal level cleric,
    this is a spell like ability
    at 20th level it becomes greater dispel magic

    spell resistance: The champions presence makes magic less effective against him, and he gains spell resistance of 12+champion level

    shield knockback: a champions shield bash can knock his enemies back five feet after he strikes them, causing normal damage as well as forcing an
    opposed strength check, if the champion wins the opponent moves back five feet, if the champion loses nothing happens

    edit: fixed table and formatting
    Last edited by Madpolymorpher; 2011-12-21 at 12:55 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Champion (base class) Peach

    First: Low skill points and poor saves always make me a bit worried on a purely martial class.

    shield mastery: the champions prowess at fighting with a shield allows him a +1 added to his shield bonus at first level, +2 at 5th, +3 at 9th, etc.
    ex: if a level 3 Champion was wielding a large steel shield his shield bonus to AC would be 3
    Note: he must be wielding the shield in his off hand
    A +5 bonus to AC while being forced to sword and board, and being unable to use it with animate shields? Free AC is nice, but you've eliminated quite a few good options here.

    rally courage: champions are exceptional at rallying others to their cause, a champion can rally courage oncer per day +charisma modifier
    (assuming it is 0 or greater, this grants the champion and his allies with in 30 ft diameter a bonus to all attack rolls,
    damage rolls, and saves
    the bonus is +1 at level 2, +2 at level 6, +3 at level 10, +4 at level 14, and +5 at level 18
    this is a standard action that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity
    Questions: What is the duration? Is it mind affecting? Do allies lose the bonus if they leave the 30 foot area? Anyway, this isn't bad, but comparing it to Bards, who get the ability to do this without using their standard action (at the penalty of having worse bonuses to saves), it feels a bit iffy.

    Intimidation: as an experienced warrior a champion can fill his enemies with fear and doubt, causing them to take a morale penalty to attack rolls,
    damage rolls, and saving throws. The champion can intimidate once per day +charisma modifier (assuming it is 0 or greater),
    the Intimidation affects a 30 ft diameter around the champion
    the penalty is -1 at level 3, -2 at level 7, -3 at level 11, -4 at level 15, and -5 at level 19
    will negates (DC 10+cha modifier +1/2 champion level)
    this is a standard action that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity
    Again, duration? Is it mind affecting? The 30 foot area is going to hurt a lot, since it's very hard for this guy to get into range.

    Remove fear: a champions courage inspires those around him, so at level four, oncer per day +cha modifier (assuming it is 0 or greater) a champion
    can remove fear as a cleric of equal class would
    this is a spell like ability
    This is relatively minor, but not bad.


    Improved shield bash: mastery of his fighting style allows a champion to use his shield as a weapon, granting him the improved shield bash feat at
    1st level
    Not bad, if you want to go around shield bashing. It isn't always the best option, but it helps out.

    Stunning shield bash: The champion's shield bashes are more forceful, once per day +cha modifier (assuming it is 0 or greater) the shield bash can
    stun an enemy fortitude negates (10+1/2 champion level+str modifier)
    This isn't bad, but really is a pretty minor ability. Still, I guess you can blow a lot of shield bashes to (nearly) guarantee a stun, though this class is starting to look pretty MAD.

    Bull's strength: The champion has the ability to gain bursts of strength, once per day +cha modifier (assuming 0 or greater) the champion can use
    bull's strength on himself as a spellcaster of equal class levels, this is a spell like ability
    Not worth it, at level 8 you're long past the point where you'd already have a good enough item of +strength. It might be useful for a bit if you don't upgrade to a +4 for a while, but it's not going to stay useful.

    improved cleave: the momentum from the champions first kill provides him with additional force on his next attack, when a champion cleaves the
    critical threat range for his weapon doubles, this stacks with improved critical or keen weapons
    The champion isn't even guaranteed to have cleave, so I don't know where this ability comes from. Anyway, it's fairly strong with crit stacking (and very minor on builds not going for crit stacking), but I just don't get why it's here.

    dispel magic: The champions force of will and ability to shape a battlefield even affect magic. Once per day + cha modifier (assuming 0 or greater)
    the champion can cast dispel magic as an equal level cleric,
    this is a spell like ability
    at 20th level it becomes greater dispel magic
    You get this way too late for it to be useful; you're 2 levels behind when you get it and, until level 20, just get further and further behind. At 12 you might get lucky and dispel something if the caster isn't pulling any kind of caster level increases; at 19, you'll never dispel anything.

    spell resistance: The champions presence makes magic less effective against him, and he gains spell resistance of 12+champion level
    Spell resistance, woo? It's not bad, but you should be able to lower it so allies can buff you. Even then, it's really not the greatest ability, since SR is easy to overcome.

    shield knockback: a champions shield bash can knock his enemies back five feet after he strikes them, causing normal damage as well as forcing an
    opposed strength check, if the champion wins the opponent moves back five feet, if the champion loses nothing happens
    This is really minor, especially because usually, you don't want to knock enemies out of your threatened area, and it doesn't knock enemies around much considering the movement speeds present at 16th level.

    Overall, this class is really weak. Compared to the fighter, I think the fighter might actually have the edge due to the variety of feats they can take. It's got a couple of minor defensive abilities, and a couple of buffs, but it really can't do anything but be OK at shield bashing or really, really mediocre as a buffer/crowd controller.
    You rang?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    bobthe6th's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Champion (base class) Peach

    damn ninj'd. was in the middle of a solid point by point PEACH.

    my suggestion would give it a uniqu way to damage a foe. With my Razor I gave it DoT, maybe this could get dissruptive dmage? when they hit a foe, that foe takes x additional damage from all other attacks. x grows with level, and gets some riders. like at level 10, when they critical against a foe that foe gets -2 to arrmor class for the rest of the encounter or some such.
    Avatar by Szilard, thank you sir for the fine work!

    my home brew. you should PEACH them...
    Telekineticist
    Razor
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Hyudra's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Champion (base class) Peach

    Here's the thing: Melee only really works with two handed weapons and some buffs, because power attack and the way it interacts with Strength/Twohanders is really the only way to ramp up your damage sufficiently.

    Further, while sword and board is generally inferior, you've also got the added issue that tanks don't work. Unless you've got a serious way to force enemies to focus their attention on you, and a way to absorb that damage or deal with that attention, being tough doesn't matter.

    So he doesn't really deal sufficient damage or have a major impact on the battlefield, and he's tough-ish but not durable in a way that matters. This is a pretty fundamental set of drawbacks. With this in mind, noting that (as PEACH stated) the benefits are negligible/scale badly, even a simple boost in the numbers offered probably won't remedy the most critical issues with the class.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-12-21 at 03:52 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Champion (base class) Peach

    All right, here's my first attempt at fixing it
    I did away with the shield stuff, and changed around a lot of the class features

    The Champion
    alignment: any
    hitd die: d10
    class skills: climb, craft, diplomacy, handle animal, initmidate, jump, ride, swim
    skill points: 2+int
    Proficient in all simple and martial weapons, as well as all armor and shields

    {table=head]level|base attack bonus|Fort|Ref|Will|special
    1|+1|+2|+0|+2|bonus feat, power attack
    2|+2|+3|+0|+3|rally courage +1, cleave
    3|+3|+3|+1|+3|intimidation +1
    4|+4|+4|+1|+4|remove fear
    5|+5|+4|+1|+4|bonus feat, weakening critical, stunning strike
    6|+6/+1|+5|+2|+5|rally courage+2, sundering blows
    7|+7/+2|+5|+2|+5|intimidation +2
    8|+8/+3|+6|+2|+6|dispel magic
    9|+9/+4|+6|+3|+6|improved critical
    10|+10/+5|+7|+3|+7|rally courage +3, improved cleave
    11|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+7|intimidation +3, improved sundering blows
    12|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+8|break enchantments
    13|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+8|improved weakening critical
    14|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+9|rally courage +4
    15|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+9|intimidation +4
    16|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+10|spell resistance, greater sundering blows
    17|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|greater dispel magic
    18|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|greater weakening critical
    19|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|rally courage +5
    20|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|intimidation +5
    [/table]

    rally courage: champions are exceptional at rallying others to their cause, a champion can rally courage oncer per day +charisma modifier
    (assuming it is 0 or greater, this grants the champion and his allies with in 30 radius diameter a bonus to all attack rolls,
    damage rolls, and saves, it lasts for 1minute/champion level, this is
    the bonus is +1 at level 2, +2 at level 6, +3 at level 10, +4 at level 14, and +5 at level 18\
    this is a standard action that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity

    Intimidation: as an experienced warrior a champion can fill his enemies with fear and doubt, causing them to take a morale penalty to attack rolls,
    damage rolls, and saving throws. The champion can intimidate once per day +charisma modifier (assuming it is 0 or greater),
    the Intimidation affects a 30 ft radius around the champion. This is a mind affecting ability
    the penalty is -1 at level 3, -2 at level 7, -3 at level 11, -4 at level 15, and -5 at level 20
    will negates (DC 10+cha modifier +1/2 champion level)
    this is a standard action that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity

    Remove fear: a champions courage inspires those around him, so at level four, oncer per day +cha modifier (assuming it is 0 or greater) a champion
    can remove fear as a sorcerer of equal class would
    this is a spell like ability

    bonus feat: at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th level the champion can select a feat from the fighter bonus feat list

    stunning strikes: a champion can stun an enemy with the force behind his attacks. Oncer per day +cha modifier (assuming 0 or greater) a champion
    can stun an enemy; fortitude negates (10+1/2 champion level+str modifier

    dispel magic: The champions force of will and ability to shape a battlefield even affect magic. Once per day + cha modifier (assuming 0 or greater)
    the champion can cast dispel magic as an equal level sorcerer,
    this is a spell like ability
    at 18th level it becomes greater dispel magic

    improved cleave: the momentum from the champions first kill provides him with additional force on his next attack, when a champion cleaves the
    critical threat range for his weapon doubles, this stacks with improved critical or keen weapons

    power attack: at first level the champion gains the power attack feat

    cleave: at second level the champion gains the cleave feat

    spell resistance: The champions presence makes magic less effective against him, and he gains spell resistance of 12+champion level
    as a free action the champion can activate or remove his SR

    Weakening critical: upon scoring a critical hit the champion weakens his enemy as well. Upon scoring a critical hit, in addition to damage
    the champion deals 1d4 constitution damage

    Improved weakening critical: when the champion scores a critcal hit he deals 1d6 constituion damage in addition to normal damage

    Greater weakening critical: when the champion scores a critical hit he deals 1d8 constitution damage in addition to normal damage

    Sundering Blows: If the champion strikes an enemy 2 or more times in a round they suffer a -2 penalty to AC for the rest of the encounter

    Improved Sundering Blows: if a champion strikes an enemy 3 or more times in a round they suffer a -4 penalty to AC for the rest of
    the encounter

    Greater Sundering Blows: if a champion strikes an enemy 4 or more times in a round they suffer a -6 penalty to AC for the rest of the
    encounter

    Break Enchantment: a champion can use his force of will and battlefield presence to break enchantments. Once per day + cha
    modifier (assuming 0 or greater) the Champion can cast break enchantment as an equal level sorcerer
    this is a spell like ability

    improved critical: same as feat

    I hope that this is an improvement, let me know

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    bobthe6th's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Champion (base class) Peach

    preselected feats is not the way to go. give options or just let them spend their feats.

    needs more uses of its main abilities (rally/intimidate). without a high charisma one use per day is really bad, and it dosn't get better later.
    Avatar by Szilard, thank you sir for the fine work!

    my home brew. you should PEACH them...
    Telekineticist
    Razor
    Shield
    blasterv4
    mindbender

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Champion (base class) Peach

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    needs more uses of its main abilities (rally/intimidate). without a high charisma one use per day is really bad, and it dosn't get better later.
    would it be better to give them x uses per day or make it something like an aura that is constantly on?

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    bobthe6th's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Champion (base class) Peach

    Aura would probablyc be fine.
    Avatar by Szilard, thank you sir for the fine work!

    my home brew. you should PEACH them...
    Telekineticist
    Razor
    Shield
    blasterv4
    mindbender

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