Magic: the Gathering XII: Vote Nicol Bolas for 2012! Discard their hands!

[tgva8889]

Well, there's this. Note: Link contains Spoilers.

[AgentPaper]

Well, there's this.

Thanks. I'm surprised there's not even a single creature in there, but I guess it makes sense. Goes against all of my aggro instincts, but I guess that's the point, isn't it?

[arguskos]

Hm, kinda expected as much, ah well.

Could you provide a list for the Burning Vengeance control deck? I'd build it myself, but I always tend to build my decks like aggro decks, which is why I was looking for a pre-made list to use in the first place.

If you're interested, I have a Past in Flames-based Burning Vengeance deck I can list out for ya. It's... unorthodox and so far has middling results but is quite fun to play if nothing else. It's my T2 deck of choice, and I feel like it's got a lot of potential.

[MammonAzrael]

Dark Ascension Spoilers

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I'm not too impressed with this lady. The human stats are just bad. Once she's flipped, she's a good size, but feels very "win more." If you're connecting with her, you're already hitting with at least 4 power, and likely more, so the card draw does little you probably need. And she's not too hard to stop, both with removal and blocking; 4 power is one of the worst places to be in Innistrad, as anything big will often have at least 5 toughness, and you can bet they'll have time to get those out before she flips. 9+ times out of 10 I expect that Uvenwald Mystics, hell, even Villagers of Estwald, will be better.



This lady, on the other hand, will be quite popular. She's going to be yet another great 2-drop for White Weenie, and this time she's easy to cast. That said, with the amount of hate X/1s are facing in Standard, I suspect she'll see more successful love in older formats. I expect her price to die down a bit after the initial hype. She isn't Kataki, Flores, no matter what you claim.



Right, this one broke my brain a little. While I don't think he'll be doing to much in Standard (prove me wrong with crazy combos!), the sheer potential this lich represents is insane. And insanely mana hungry. I can't even begin to think of all the wacky interactions this guy could have. And that's besides just being able to recur guys (and since it isn't legendary, you can grab other copies of it for redundancy)!

[Gauntlet]

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Turn 1: Faithless Looting
Turn 2: Heartless Summoning
Turn 3: Priest of Urabrask
Havengul Lich
make infinite red mana
Perilous Myr or Devil's Play for the win.

I may have to play this deck.

[tgva8889]

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Amusing note: The Lich generates a 4-card infinite mana combo in Standard. Lich + Priest of Urabrask + Heartless Summoning + Sac Outlet.

Thalia is way better than she looks. Sure, there's hate for X/1s, but if they don't have it quickly, Thalia can slow them down a lot. If an Esper Control player untaps while you have Thalia in play and they play a 3rd land, you've actually slowed down their entire game by a turn for the rest of the game. They probably have to spend all of turn 3 playing a Doom Blade instead of, say, a Pristine Talisman or a Forbidden Alchemy. And being a 2-power First Striker is pretty significant against, say, Illusions. Making Gut Shot cost mana is not insignificant, either. I think Thalia is definitely a Standard-playable card.

Edit: Oh, huh. Priest of Urabrask has 1 toughness. Guess you don't need a sac outlet.

[BladeofObliviom]

Thanks. I'm surprised there's not even a single creature in there, but I guess it makes sense. Goes against all of my aggro instincts, but I guess that's the point, isn't it?

...Except for one of the Shimmering Grottos, 1 Forbidden Alchemy, 2 Dissipates, 3 Incinerates, 2 Think Twices, and obviously Secrets of the Dead, I literally have that entire deck sitting within arms reach of me, unbuilt.

[MammonAzrael]

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Amusing note: The Lich generates a 4-card infinite mana combo in Standard. Lich + Priest of Urabrask + Heartless Summoning + Sac Outlet.

Thalia is way better than she looks. Sure, there's hate for X/1s, but if they don't have it quickly, Thalia can slow them down a lot. If an Esper Control player untaps while you have Thalia in play and they play a 3rd land, you've actually slowed down their entire game by a turn for the rest of the game. They probably have to spend all of turn 3 playing a Doom Blade instead of, say, a Pristine Talisman or a Forbidden Alchemy. And being a 2-power First Striker is pretty significant against, say, Illusions. Making Gut Shot cost mana is not insignificant, either. I think Thalia is definitely a Standard-playable card.

Edit: Oh, huh. Priest of Urabrask has 1 toughness. Guess you don't need a sac outlet.

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Fun little combo. It's a shame that the mana for it to come together isn't very good. At least you can pair it with Secrets of the Dead so you can draw into your win conditions.

Oh, I agree that she's playable in Standard, and will be very good at times. I just think comparing her to Kataki is a little much. The First Strike is great as all the other little dudes being played effectively can't trade with her like they can with Snapcaster, keeping her nicely offensive, and she buys you time, which is great. I just felt like she's getting a little too much hype (which I guess isn't really surprising coming from a Daily MTG article and initial impressions). I fully expect her to see play as a 2-4 of in plenty of aggressive white decks, doing solid work.

[tgva8889]

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She does sort of make Storm Combo in Modern lose a large percentage of the time. They can't draw into outs easily against her because their cantrips all cost 1 more, they can't really combo off easily because it requires an extra mana per spell, and you're beating them down with a nice 2-power 2 CMC guy while they're doing it.

Plus, again, pretty sweet against Control in Modern, too. No, it's not Kataki vs. Affinity with Artifact Lands good, but she's pretty good.

[MammonAzrael]

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She does sort of make Storm Combo in Modern lose a large percentage of the time. They can't draw into outs easily against her because their cantrips all cost 1 more, they can't really combo off easily because it requires an extra mana per spell, and you're beating them down with a nice 2-power 2 CMC guy while they're doing it.

Plus, again, pretty sweet against Control in Modern, too. No, it's not Kataki vs. Affinity with Artifact Lands good, but she's pretty good.

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Oh yeah, Storm is going hate her. That's part of why I think she'll see more success in Modern (and possibly other older formats) than in Standard.

[tgva8889]

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Like all hate bears, her effectiveness is greatly proportional to the level of dishonesty other decks plan to use.

[AgentPaper]

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If nothing else, an amazing sideboard card for white aggro decks, including aggro decks that only splash white.

[The Succubus]

So Deck Pack 3 was released for Duels of the Planeswalkers last night and the Beknighted deck is so ridiculously powerful it's not funny. Indestructable for all cards, double strike for all cards and first strike on most of them. Unless you start with a kill spell in your deck, you are pretty much screwed. In a normal game of Magic, you could easily build decks to counter it but with the preconstructed ones in Duels, I've found that only the Red deck (Chandra, not Strength of Stone) or Grave Whispers have any sort of chance.

Badly thought out choice I think.

[Penguinizer]

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As a Death and Taxes player all white hatebears make me giddy. I'm seriously considering maindecking 3 of these in the flex slots. It means I can't run Leonin Relicwarder to counter Stoneblade anymore but it's not the huge player it was before. It also means moving Batterskull to the SB but I honestly was probably going to cut it out anyways.

[Keld Denar]

So, I've been out of the game for a while, but after my girlfriend's 8 year old started getting into Pokemon, I quickly went out and bought some of the good stuff. I got the Ajani vs Nicol Bolas duel pack. I mostly understand planeswalkers, but I did come up with an interesting question. I had out a Slavering Nulls, which has a "when this deals damage to a player, that player discarde" effect. I attacked my opponents Ajani planeswalker with it, and it wasn't blocked. Does my opponent have to discard? I know planeswalkers are pseudo-players, but how does that work?

[MammonAzrael]

So, I've been out of the game for a while, but after my girlfriend's 8 year old started getting into Pokemon, I quickly went out and bought some of the good stuff. I got the Ajani vs Nicol Bolas duel pack. I mostly understand planeswalkers, but I did come up with an interesting question. I had out a Slavering Nulls, which has a "when this deals damage to a player, that player discarde" effect. I attacked my opponents Ajani planeswalker with it, and it wasn't blocked. Does my opponent have to discard? I know planeswalkers are pseudo-players, but how does that work?

Nope. This is a case where you're over-thinking things. Slavering Nulls never dealt damage to a player, only a planeswalker. So nothing is discarded.

And welcome back to the game!

[LansXero]

Nope. This is a case where you're over-thinking things. Slavering Nulls never dealt damage to a player, only a planeswalker. So nothing is discarded.

And welcome back to the game!

Alternatively, Ajani has to discard from his non-existent hand. Which has the same effect :P

[Keld Denar]

Thanks MA. Speaking of pre-cons, are there any others in the recent past that I can get my hands on? My girlfriend asked if there was a way me, her, and her son can all play. I said that we'd need a third deck. The store owner I talked to, however, said that they really don't do that anymore. Is that true? Or is she just a comic book store selling Magic cards who doesn't really know anything about the industry? I'd rather not pull out my old decks. They are one part overpowered and two parts overcomplicated to play with such green newbies. The 8 year old is very much an aggro player, but my girlfriend is starting to warm up to the wonderful world of control and elaborate combos.

EDIT: I heard that they took out the opportunity for instant spells and effects during combat between when damage is assigned and when damage resolves. Is this true?

[MammonAzrael]

Thanks MA. Speaking of pre-cons, are there any others in the recent past that I can get my hands on? My girlfriend asked if there was a way me, her, and her son can all play. I said that we'd need a third deck. The store owner I talked to, however, said that they really don't do that anymore. Is that true? Or is she just a comic book store selling Magic cards who doesn't really know anything about the industry? I'd rather not pull out my old decks. They are one part overpowered and two parts overcomplicated to play with such green newbies. The 8 year old is very much an aggro player, but my girlfriend is starting to warm up to the wonderful world of control and elaborate combos.

EDIT: I heard that they took out the opportunity for instant spells and effects during combat between when damage is assigned and when damage resolves. Is this true?

There are still many, many precons being made. Each new set typically has five different precons, there are many unique precons like your Ajani vs Bolas set, and even more. To get an idea of the recent ones, check out a place like StarCityGames to see all the options availible to you. It sounds like the comic shop you went to is distressingly out of touch. You should be able to go to your Local Barnes and Noble and find a couple different precons.

As for the damage, you are correct. You can no longer do "damage on the stack." It can be combat damage, it can be a lightning bolt. But once the damage is dealt you no longer have an opportunity to respond.

[Binks]

There are tons of pre-cons out there, and new ones all the time. You're looking for either other Duel Decks (there was an excellent pair not to long ago, Knights vs. Dragons. That and Ajani vs. Bolas are the only ones I own, so the only ones I can comment on but I would rate their balance to be similar, with ajani/bolas a little more powerful) or to get some intro packs (60 card pre-cons focused on a certain set/mechanic)

I would recommend grabbing 3 intro decks if you can, from any sets (intros are pretty well balanced against other intros), that match your preferred play styles. Alternatively you could grab just 1, but be warned, the majority of intro decks will not compete well with Ajani/Bolas' decks as those are pretty strong decks in my experience. An event deck might do well in that environment, but I've never bought one, so I can't really comment on that. There's also the premium decks, which are a little stronger than the duel decks IMHO, but just giving you options.

tl;dr - Grab 3 intro packs if you can as the duels pre-cons are only balanced against themselves. If you can't, then either get a good intro, or a semi-bad event/premium deck. Oh, and also look at the Duels of the Planeswalkers 2012 game as it is awesome (my completely biased, personal opinion :P)

EDIT: If you're coming from the world of damage on the stack it might be helpful to read the 2010 rule changes.

[tgva8889]

If you want to play multiplayer, I suggest taking a look at the Planechase decks. They're actually pretty good preconstructed decks anyways, and they're sort of designed to play multiplayer. You can (and probably should) ignore the alternate format that's included with them. The same goes for the Archenemy decks, which I honestly know nothing about so I don't know whether or not they're good.

There aren't tournaments like that, but yes, if you wanted to play multiplayer you could just get a 3rd deck and play. The game is much different with multiple players, though, so some decks may function poorly. If the decks you currently have are Duel decks, I'd probably suggest getting 3 entirely new decks for it, as the Duel Decks are designed to be equal in power level to each other, but not so much to other decks.

[Foeofthelance]

Budget friendly deck I am working on. Not really sure what to call it, to be honest. Card counts are mostly based on what I have on hand at the moment. Really needs Blade Splicers, and will probably pick them up soon.

24 Land
12x Forest
6x Plains
4x Shimmering Grotto
2x Gavony Township

16 Creatures
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x Master Splicer
4x Vital Splicer
4x Precursor Golem

20 Spells
4x Prey Upon
4x Moment of Heroism
4x Travel Preparations
4x Ranger's Guile
4x Caravan Vigil

[AgentPaper]

Definitely needs more creatures. I'd suggest cutting the Ranger's Guiles and Caravan Vigils and replacing them with Midnight Haunting and something else, maybe Intangible Virtue and/or Elite Inquisitor.

[tgva8889]

Yeah, 16 creatures and 16 cards that are unplayable without creatures is not somewhere you want your deck to be. My immediate suggestion is to cut the Caravan Vigils for good cards that actually do what you want (accelerate your mana), maybe some Birds or Llanowar Elves would fit better though even Rampant Growth sounds more appealing. I'd cut all 4 copies of Prey Upon for an actual removal spell like Oblivion Ring.

When you get them, I'd probably chip off 1 of each pump spell and 1 of the other Splicers for the Blade Splicers. You don't really need that many Vital Splicers.

I'd also consider Mutagenic Growth, which may counter removal on Precursor Golem a non-zero amount of the time and does it for free. Apostle's Blessing is also a more obvious suggestion, but at least Mutagenic Growth kills them.

[Foeofthelance]

Alright, switch out Mutagenic Growth for Travel Preparations, and Rampant Growth for Caravan Vigil. If I switch out the Prey Upons (which upon re-reading Precursor Golem don't do what I thought they did anyway) for Oblivion Ring, should I alter the mana base to 10 Forests and 8 plains, or leave them as is?

[AgentPaper]

Definitely keep the Travel Preparations. Giving out two +1/+1 counters is big, and if you have a golem out, you can target just one of them to put a +1/+1 counter on all of them.

I'd lose the Moment of Heroisms for the Mutagenic Growths. They both do about the same thing, except Mutagenic Growth is free. If you're worried about aggro decks and think you want lifegain, Timely Reinforcements does a much better job for that, and could go on your sideboard.

[MammonAzrael]

Drop the Rampant Growths for an additional creature. You aren't really ramping into anything with it, Llanowar Elves would be much better, getting you turn 2 Blade Splicers. Upping to 8 Plains is a good plan. Try to get Sunpetal Groves and Razorverge Thickets when/if you can. The Groves, at least, should retain value for a long time. And I'd consider using the Dark Ascention card Hunger of the Howlpack (link) once it becomes available, as it's great with the Precursor Golem.

Dark Ascension Spoiler

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Woo, called it! Just revealed on Aaron Forsythe's Twitter.

[tgva8889]

I'd consider a mix of Moments and Growths. Moment is good to have sometimes (gaining a lot of life at random is sometimes nice). I would try not to cut the Travel Preps, though, as you can use them to make bad guys (like your Splicers) into real creatures.

He's ramping into Precursor Golem and 4-mana Splicers. He doesn't have any Blade Splicers in his deck. I still agree that Llanowar Elves may be better, although not that much. You really don't have much use for 1/1s.

[Lord Seth]

I've been wanting to actually finally make a Standard deck (my main deck is Legacy--actually, I may post that later), so I kind of thought this up, and was wondering what people thought.

Creatures: (20)
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Champion of the Parish
2x Mikaeus, the Lunarch
4x Gideon's Lawkeeper
2x Fiend Hunter

Spells: (18)
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Bonds of Faith
4x Mana Leak
2x Turn the Tide
2x Disperse
2x Tezzeret's Gambit

Lands: (22)
8 Island
8 Plains
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Moorland Haunt

Sideboard: (15)
2x Flashfreeze
2x Celestial Purge
3x Revoke Existence
4x Spare from Evil
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Grand Abolisher

[Suedars]

Turn the Tide is very bad. Definitely cut it. In a tempo list like this Vapor Snag is better than Disperse. Your Delvers aren't going to be super reliable with only 14 targets. You might want to add a few Ponders to help set them up and generally smooth your draws. The sideboard should be aimed more at specific decks than just a bunch of hate cards. Flashfreeze is fine for Wolf Run. Negate is also quite good against Wolf Run and control. Geist is very good for the control matchup. Gut Shot and Timely are both exceptional for aggro and tempo decks (most of the field) to the point that running some Gut Shots main is probably correct.