Pokémon XII: Truth of the Ideal Thread

[tgva8889]

6 Pokemon makes Torkoal not as much dead weight as before.

Some ideas for balancing elements:
Starmie - It adds a powerful Special attacker to your team, which will provide some balance. Starmie is also incredibly powerful here, as I can imagine you finding many an opportunity to set up. For example, the following set might be useful to you:

• Calm Mind
• Recover
• Surf
• Thunderbolt

Alternatively, you can just run another Choice Band user:

• Surf
• Thunderbolt
• Ice Beam
• Psychic // Hidden Power Grass

I do remember that many of Starmie's popular walls are unusable by rules, so you should be pretty well set to destroy everything. The key to running Starmie is that it also gives you a weapon against other Water-types, which will be pretty common given the rules. Thunderbolt absolutely destroys them, and if you can manage to come in on a Water-type attack, they'll have no chance whatsoever. I believe Starmie is also the fastest legal Water-type in this tournament, so as long as you come in on a move and survive, you can just crush other Water-types. Watch your opponents to see how well they play when trying to pull this off.

Skarmory should probably be altered to a more supportive set:

• Spikes
• Rest
• Whirlwind
• Drill Peck

Toxic-Stall (the previous set) is also usable. This set, however, can net you some key extra damage, which will be important if you plan on sweeping with Heracross.

Here's where things get tricky. The major reason I suggest this change is that Torkoal can now be adapted to an entirely different role:

• Toxic
• Protect
• Overheat
• Explosion

Toxic-Stall Torkoal is nothing new. However, this is a fusion of both sets. I think the surprise factor here will net you at least one free kill. If someone switches into Torkoal expecting to set up and you Toxic them, that is going to cut their offense short. Then you smack them with an Overheat, then Protect? I honestly love Overheat at this low level on Torkoal, as even off of Torkoal's Special Attack, you can easily hit for 1/3rd of your opponent's HP on neutral hits. That can be huge, especially if it's on a Pokemon that your main sweepers can't take down in a single shot. Toxic-Stall gives you a(nother) weapon to deal with Pokemon that are trying to set up and sweep you and, importantly, a way for Torkoal to do something after you've used up your Overheat.

The original Torkoal set is also fine. You can also shift Explosion into Rest and Overheat into an actual attack (Flamethrower or Heat Wave) and just run true stall, but be aware that you become setup bait for some Pokemon. Mostly, though, I just want to see someone use Torkoal. He seems very good in this metagame, considering how few Pokemon you're allowed to use with stats in Torkoal's range.

At this point, I think Gyarados and Zangoose are probably decent option just because you can make your opponents die with them relatively well. Raichu is actually an okay option, although I would not suggest it. I feel like you want someone with Wish, but that's because when I played RSE I always wanted Wish and Wish was friking awesome to have. Wish may not be nearly as useful at such low levels. Maybe I'm underestimating the offensive power of being at level 20 instead of level 100.

[OracleofWuffing]

Alternatively, you can just run another Choice Band user:

• Surf
• Thunderbolt
• Ice Beam
• Psychic // Hidden Power Grass

I'm pretty certain RSE has a bad item description for Choice Band, and it only boosts physical attacks.

You're kind of open to Electric attacks. Rats, Exeggcutor's not in Ruby and you're one level shy of Vileplume/Bellossom/Victreebell. If you don't run Starmie or Milotic (and maybe even Cloyster), Quagsire could work. Gligar and Onix aren't in Ruby... Huh, that guy running Marshtomp might be on to something. Wait, see that guy running Nuzleaf? You can run Shiftry. I don't think you'll want to take advantage of Sunny Day, but 50% lower sleep time might be useful in these rules, it can Whirlwind, and Explode. Wish I had more to offer you as far as abusing Sleep rules, though.

[tgva8889]

Indeed. In that case, definitely use the Calm Mind set, as Choice Band on Starmie does nothing.

There are no usable Ground-types under this rules set. I think Trapinch is, like, the "best" option available to you. You could use a Grass-type, but I'm not sure how good that would even be seeing as how even those aren't particularly good. Honestly, I feel like the best answer to an Electric-type might be to just run Wobbuffet, because few of the Pokemon with Electric-type attacks can really beat it.

Ludicolo is totally usable. Shiftry is weak enough that a Thunderbolt off of most truly threatening Pokemon with Thunderbolt will still put you in a rather bad position.

Girafarig can Baton Pass Agility. That's something. It's not a great something, but it's a consideration.

Ninetales learns a pretty fast Hypnosis. Unfortunately, Hypnosis is pretty bad.

20 is, by the way, the most arbitrary level. At least 30 is like, used in the games for some reason.

[OracleofWuffing]

Sadly, since we've been updated on the rules, Ludicolo is not usable because he's Sapphire-only.

I'm more partial to the Psychic/Surf/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt Starmie set, though running Leftovers instead. Recover's nice and all, I just expect the audience to be high on heavy-hit attacks and not giving you the chance to use it.

[tgva8889]

I like Recover, because Starmie isn't that fragile. I think Recover/Calm Mind gives you a way to generate completely free wins, as once you set up enough Calm Minds I don't think anything will be able to stand in your way. The only major threat to Starmie is Heracross. Most other Pokemon get destroyed by a Surf on the switch-in (which you should always lead with if you aren't sure of your opponent's team).

[tonberrian]

Can anyone explain the most efficient method for levelling up all the areas in Soul Silver or Heart Gold's Safari Zone?

[tgva8889]

Put random stuff in them? Like, you have to put objects in them. Any objects. Not even sure it matters what objects, but you have to put objects in them to level them up.

Here is some more information for you on that. Really, the key is filling the zone with objects and waiting around a few days.

[LansXero]

How are you guys getting calm mind on a starmie? bulbapèdia says its impossibru :O

Also, getting that moveset on an skarmory is a pita. Silly toxic, y u get used on other pokemon :(

[Mando Knight]

Also, getting that moveset on an skarmory is a pita. Silly toxic, y u get used on other pokemon :(

You did use it on a male, though, right? You can breed Toxic around like crazy.

[LansXero]

You did use it on a male, though, right? You can breed Toxic around like crazy.

well, yeah but the problem isnt just toxic, its drill peck xD

[Mando Knight]

well, yeah but the problem isnt just toxic, its drill peck xD

Breed Toxic onto a Spearow, have it learn Drill Peck, then breed both onto Skarmory.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Breed Toxic onto a Spearow...

Breeding loses me sometimes.

[boj0]

Egg Moves? Not Hot Skitty On Wailord Action?
For Skarmory, You'll want Impish (+Def, -SpDef) 252 Evs in HP and Def and the last 6 in Attack. Hold onto some Leftovers. Moves that are awesome are: Brave Bird, Roost, Whi-wait...3rd Gen? Oh...okay Toxic, Drill Peck, Spikes, Whirlwind

[tgva8889]

How are you guys getting calm mind on a starmie? bulbapèdia says its impossibru :O

Indeed it is. Instead, I suggest Psychic on that set. Recover is still quite a useful move, and possibly more useful than Ice Beam, since most Pokemon weak to it are also weak to Psychic or aren't going to pose much of a threat to you. Psychic importantly covers Heracross.

Getting most of the movesets requires breeding. You need to get two Heracross to learn Megahorn to breed to have a legal Heracross with Megahorn.

[Mando Knight]

And the major threats covered by Ice Beam (Dragons) are pretty much non-issues in your tourney, since Bagon is terrible compared to Starmie.

[tgva8889]

Ice Beam covers some Grass-types (Shiftry, Tropius I guess?) but yeah, Psychic is better.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Guys, I'm bored. What should I breed? Timburr or Deino?

[tonberrian]

Guys, I'm bored. What should I breed? Timburr or Deino?

Timburr.

Which reminds me. I need to get back to breeding Kangaskhan.

[tgva8889]

Deino, because I can trade you a Timburr with awesome IVs, Drain Punch, and Bulk Up if you really want one.

Unless you want one in the next, like, month and a half, since I won't be able to trade until mid-May.

[OracleofWuffing]

Hey everypony! Remember when I said I had an April Fools' team where I ran an Altaria with a toxic orb and refresh just for the novelty of constantly using refresh?

...

Guess who got his Toxic Orb switcheroo'd on the first battle?

E: Second battle, I have one KO!

EE: Fifth battle in, I ran into someone else that runs Rotom-fan.

[Chess435]

This April Fool's day trailer needs to be a thing. Ridiculous amounts of money would be flying at computer screens worldwide to no effect.

[tgva8889]

I love all the walking on bridges. I can't imagine having to do that in the original games.

[OracleofWuffing]

You would use your bicycle, which would blare awesome music over all the tedium.

My lagging tail Ninjask just KO'd two pokemon. With Giga Impact.

Disconnects don't get recorded in the battle recorder, apparently. That would have been a hilarious 35-minute long video. YES SOMEONE JUST DISCONNECTED WITH FOUR POKEMON LEFT VERSUS ONE POKEMON THAT WAS JUST SPAMMING REFRESH- Oh god I'm randomly fighting him again.

Apparently, nobody carries freakin' Ice Beam anymore, 'cause I'm having trouble getting Cotton Guard Altaria in the fight without someone disconnecting in a hissy fit.

Last edit: Exploits will be found here.

[tgva8889]

Except for the, like, half the game that you don't have your bicycle.

[FantasyFoxMan]

Hey, folks. I just love to pop in every so often. I think I popped in at a great moment today, since it's April Fool's Day. I've got a quick question to ask you guys- What's your opinions on RestTalk Pokémon? I'm tempted to use it on one Pokemon but I just don't like Sleep Talk, so I can't bring myself to use any teammates with the moveset. How about you guys, what's your opinions on it?

[tonberrian]

Miserable runners. Fortunately, all I have left is Latios in Soul Silver. Sleep plus low HP + Dusk Balls are a godsend.

[tgva8889]

I use Quick Balls, because 90% of the time they have 4x catch rate against runners.

[OracleofWuffing]

Hey, folks. I just love to pop in every so often. I think I popped in at a great moment today, since it's April Fool's Day. I've got a quick question to ask you guys- What's your opinions on RestTalk Pokémon? I'm tempted to use it on one Pokemon but I just don't like Sleep Talk, so I can't bring myself to use any teammates with the moveset. How about you guys, what's your opinions on it?

My thing against RestTalking is that you've got to spend half your moveset dedicated to the concept, giving you only two actual attacks of which to take advantage, and with a one-third chance of "missing" by selecting Rest. I'd rather set up rain, and then use the Hydration ability to get the HP from resting without the randomness of the selection. Or, to a lesser extent, use a berry to cure sleep.

[boj0]

I prefer Resto-Chesto for all my recovery needs not called Recover or Softboiled, low HP? Status condition? Rest! It fixes everything!

[tgva8889]

The biggest issue with HydroRest is that the only really good Pokemon with access to it is Manaphy, who is banned, and Vaporeon. If you're trying to use Rest on Pokemon that need to use Rest (you know, because they don't have other options), then Sleep Talk becomes one of two viable choices.

The biggest issue with RestoChesto is that it uses up your item slot. On some Pokemon, Leftovers recovery is incredibly important for long-term survivability. On others, having access to power-boosting items is huge. Additionally, because Chesto Berry is gone after a single use, every other Rest on such Pokemon comes with the usual consequences of Rest (barring Recycle or Harvest, which are uncommon options). This is problematic, especially with the new Sleep rules resetting the Sleep Counter every time you switch out. It's possible that once you use Rest again, you are actually just dead weight.

Sleep Talk allows a Resting Pokemon to do something. A move slot might actually be worth a 67% chance to do something useful instead of a 0% chance for two turns. It is more Pokemon-dependent than anything.