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    Lonely Tylenol's Avatar

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    May 2011

    Default Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work ALWAYS in Progress)

    I'm sure nearly every single person here has encountered this problem at some point in time: Either a class, or a class feature, or an ability of some sort seems strong, or shows promise, until you remember one basic, fundamental fact of D&D: Unless it's core-based, it probably doesn't have support outside of the book it's featured in. With few exceptions, classes outside of the PHB don't receive much ACF or spell support, and even certain concepts go largely unexplored in future support.

    In the first of what may (or may not) prove to be a promising Splat It! series, I explore one of these concepts: Permanency, a fifth-level spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. Permanency offers users the ability to make certain spell effects permanent, at the cost of a certain amount of XP (500 times the spell level, to be exact). Within the realm of a core game, the ability can be applied to a few different spells to do some neat tricks; however, within campaigns of the broader scope, or even campaigns with a different specific focus, the spell can't do that much.

    I'd like to remedy that problem.

    Included below are spells from more than a dozen different splatbooks, including the Player's Handbook II, the Complete series, and others (as appropriate). For the most part, I have covered all the 3.5 content available to me that isn't setting-specific, although I'd like to with a future update.

    In the interests of making this list as comprehensive as possible, if you can think of a spell that should absolutely be on the Permanency list, but isn't, or have a compelling reason why a spell that is on the Permanency list shouldn't be, please include them in a post and I'll sort it out.

    Without further ado, the revised Permanency list...

    You can make the following spells permanent in regard to yourself.

    {table=head] Spell | Sourcebook | Minimum Caster Level | XP Cost
    Arcane Sensitivity | Shining South | 9th | 500 XP
    Arcane Sight | Player's Handbook | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Aura of Terror | Spell Compendium | 14th | 3,000 XP
    Blinding Glory | Book of Exalted Deeds | 17th | 4,500 XP
    Blindsight | Player's Guide to Faerun | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Celestial Brilliance | Book of Exalted Deeds | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Comprehend languages | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
    Create Magic Tattoo | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Darkvision | Player's Handbook | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Dead End | Spell Compendium | 9th | 500 XP
    Deeper Darkvision | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Detect Aberration | Eberron Campaign Setting | 9th | 500 XP
    Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
    Detect Curse | Oriental Adventures | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Detect Disease | Oriental Adventures | 9th | 500 XP
    Detect Dragonblood | Dragon Magic | 9th | 500 XP
    Detect Dragonmark | Magic of Eberron | 9th | 500 XP
    Detect Ghosts | Ghostwalk | 9th | 500 XP
    Detect Inarcanum | Magic of Inarcanum | 9th | 500 XP
    Detect Magic | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
    Detect Poison | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
    Detect Secret Doors | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
    Detect Taint | Heroes of Horror | 9th | 500 XP
    Detect Thoughts | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Detect Undead | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
    Discern Shapechanger | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Expose the Dead | Magic of Eberron | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Find Traps | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Hoard Gullet | Dragon Magic | 9th | 500 XP
    Karmic Aura | Complete Mage | 9th | 500 XP
    Low-Light Vision | Spell Compendium | 9th | 500 XP
    Luminous Gaze | Spell Compendium | 9th | 500 XP
    Necrotic Awareness | Libris Mortis | 9th | 500 XP
    Read Magic | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
    Reflective Disguise | Underdark | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Scent | Complete Divine | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Sense of the Dragon | Races of the Dragon | 11th | 1,500 XP
    See invisibility | Player's Handbook | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Spectral Hand | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Suppress Glyph | Magic of Faerun | 15th | 3,000 XP
    Tongues | Player's Handbook | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Tremorsense | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Undetectable Alignment | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP[/table]

    In addition to personal use, permanency can be used to make the following spells permanent on yourself, another creature, or an object (as appropriate).

    {table=head] Spell | Sourcebook | Minimum Caster Level | XP Cost
    Air Breathing | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Detect Animals or Plants | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
    Detect Snares and Pits | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
    Disguise Undead | Magic of Faerun | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Endure Elements | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
    Enlarge Person | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
    Healthful Rest | Spell Compendium | 9th | 500 XP
    Jagged Tooth | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Magic Fang | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
    Magic Fang, Greater | Player's Handbook | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Misrepresent Alignment | Races of Eberron | 10th | 1,000 XP
    One with the Land | Magic of Faerun | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Reduce Person | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
    Remove Scent | Spell Compendium | 9th | 500 XP
    Resistance | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
    Resist Planar Alignment | Spell Compendium | 9th | 500 XP
    Sea Legs | Shining South | 9th | 500 XP
    Sharptooth | Spell Compendium | 12th | 2,000
    Snowshoes | Spell Compendium | 9th | 500 XP
    Spawn Screen | Libris Mortis | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Speak with Animals | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
    Speak with Plants | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Speechlink | Magic of Faerun | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Telepathic Bond | Player's Handbook | 13th | 2,500 XP
    Tojanida Sight | Stormwrack | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Water Breathing | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP[/table]

    Additionally, the following spells can be cast upon objects or areas only and rendered permanent.

    {table=head] Spell | Sourcebook | Minimum Caster Level | XP Cost
    Adamantine Weapon | Magic of Eberron | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Alarm | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
    Alarm, Greater | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Align Weapon | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Animate Objects | Player's Handbook | 14th | 3,000 XP
    Attentive Alarm | Complete Mage | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Billim's Bifrost Bridge | Dragonlance Campaign Setting | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Bridge of Sound | Savage Species | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Caustic Mire | Complete Mage | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Caustic Smoke | Complete Mage | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Climbing Tree | Complete Mage | 9th | 500 XP
    Clothier's Closet | Magic of Eberron | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Cloud Chariot | Oriental Adventures | 16th | 4,000 XP
    Consecrate | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Damning Darkness | Lords of Madness | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Dancing Lights | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
    Dark Way | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Darsson's Chilling Chamber | Shining South | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Darsson's Cooling Breeze | Shining South | 9th | 500 XP
    Darsson's Fiery Furnace | Shining South | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Desecrate | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Ectoplasmic Web | Ghostwalk | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Energized Shield | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Energized Shield, Lesser | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Fang Trap | Serpent Kingdoms | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Fire Trap | Player's Handbook* | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Fog Cloud | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Force Chest | Spell Compendium | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Force Ladder | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Ghost Lantern | Complete Mage | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Ghost Sound | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
    Ghost Touch Armor | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Ghoul Glyph | Libris Mortis | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Ghoul Light | Libris Mortis | 9th | 500 XP
    Glyph of Warding | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Greenfire | Unapproachable East | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Gust of Wind | Player's Handbook | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Haboob | Sandstorm | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Hallucinatory Terrain | Player's Handbook* | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Hidden Ward | Magic of Eberron | 9th | 500 XP
    Holy Sword | Player's Handbook* | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Illusory Script | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Invisibility | Player's Handbook | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Keen Edge | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Mage’s Private Sanctum | Player's Handbook | 13th | 2,500 XP
    Magic Aura | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
    Magic Mouth | Player's Handbook | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Magic Vestments | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Magic Weapon | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
    Magic Weapon, Greater | Player's Handbook* | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Moon Path | Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting | 13th | 2,500 XP
    Nightmare Terrain | Complete Mage | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Obscure Object | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Path of Frost | Dragon Magic | 9th | 500 XP
    Phantom Battle | Player's Handbook II | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Phase Door | Player's Handbook | 15th | 3,500 XP
    Prismatic Sphere | Player's Handbook | 17th | 4,500 XP
    Prismatic Spray | Player's Handbook II | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Prismatic Wall | Player's Handbook | 16th | 4,000 XP
    Refusal | Spell Compendium | 13th | 2,500 XP
    Resinous Tar | Complete Mage | 9th | 500 XP
    Returning Weapon | Races of the Wild | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Safe Clearing | Magic of Faerun | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Scattering Trap | Player's Handbook II | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Shrink Item | Player's Handbook | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Snare | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Solid Fog | Player's Handbook | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Spikes | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Stinking Cloud | Player's Handbook | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Suspended Silence | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Symbol of Death | Player's Handbook | 16th | 4,000 XP
    Symbol of Fear | Player's Handbook | 14th | 3,000 XP
    Symbol of Insanity | Player's Handbook | 16th | 4,000 XP
    Symbol of Pain | Player's Handbook | 13th | 2,500 XP
    Symbol of Persuasion | Player's Handbook | 14th | 3,000 XP
    Symbol of Sleep | Player's Handbook | 16th | 4,000 XP
    Symbol of Spell Loss | Spell Compendium | 13th | 2,500 XP
    Symbol of Stunning | Player's Handbook | 15th | 3,500 XP
    Symbol of Weakness | Player's Handbook | 15th | 3,500 XP
    Telepathic Block | Book of Exalted Deeds | 13th | 2,500 XP
    Teleportation Circle | Player's Handbook | 17th | 4,500 XP
    Tenser's Floating Disk | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
    Undead Bane Weapon | Spell Compendium | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Unseen Crafter | Races of Eberron | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Unseen Servant | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
    Utterdark | Lords of Madness | 17th | 4,500 XP
    Vanishing Weapon | Book of Exalted Deeds | 13th | 2,500 XP
    Wall of Chaos/Evil/Good/Law | Spell Compendium | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Wall of Dispel Magic | Spell Compendium | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Wall of Fire | Player's Handbook | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Wall of Force | Player's Handbook | 13th | 2,500 XP
    Wall of Gloom | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Wall of Ice | Player's Handbook* | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Wall of Magma | Sandstorm | 13th | 2,500 XP
    Wall of Sand | Spell Compendium | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Wall of Scales | Races of the Dragon | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Wall of Water | Sandstorm | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Weapon of Impact | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Web | Player's Handbook | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Wind Wall | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Zone of Natural Purity | Eberron Campaign Setting | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Zone of Respite | Spell Compendium | 13th | 2,500 XP
    Zone of Revelation | Spell Compendium | 13th | 2,500 XP[/table]

    Notes on spells included in the Permanency list, in the order they were collected. (NOTE: In cases where a spell appeared in both the Spell Compendium and its original source in my book-diving, the Spell Compendium version was invariably used, because it was the second book I looked through. The exception to this is if I missed the spell the first time.)

    Unless noted, a spell appeared on the Permanency list on 12-23-2011. This is to keep track of future updates.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Player's Handbook II
    Scattering Trap - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area)
    Prismatic Spray - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area)
    Phantom Battle - 12th - 2,000 xp (on area)

    Spell Compendium
    Healthful Rest - 9th - 500 xp (on other)
    Low-Light Vision - 9th - 500 xp (on self)
    Luminous Gaze - 9th - 500 xp (on self)
    Remove Scent - 9th - 500 xp (on self or others)
    Resist Planar Alignment - 9th - 500 xp (on self or others)
    Dead End - 9th - 500 xp (on self)
    Alarm, Greater - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area)
    Create Magic Tattoo - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
    Discern Shapechanger - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self)
    Force Ladder - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object)
    Dark Way - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object)
    Wall of Gloom - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object)
    Avoid Planar Effects - 11th - 1,500 xp (on self or others; once per casting)
    Suspended Silence - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object)
    Deeper Darkvision - 11th - 1,500 xp (on self)
    Tremorsense - 11th - 1,500 xp (on self)
    Wall of Sand - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object)
    Force Chest - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object)
    Refusal - 13th - 2,500 xp (on area)
    Symbol of Spell Loss - 13th - 2,500 xp (on object)
    Zone of Respite - 13th - 2,500 xp (on area)
    Zone of Revelation - 13th - 2,500 xp (on area)
    Aura of Terror - 14th - 3,000 xp (on self)
    Snowshoes - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Healthful Rest - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Ghost Touch Armor - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Energized Shield, Lesser - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Energized Shield - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Undead Bane Weapon - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Jagged Tooth - 11th - 1,500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Spikes - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Air Breathing - 11th - 1,500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Weapon of Impact - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Wall of Chaos/Evil/Good/Law - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Force Chest - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Sharptooth - 12th - 2,000 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Wall of Dispel Magic - 13th - 2,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)

    Complete Mage
    Attentive Alarm - Complete Mage - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Caustic Mire - Complete Mage - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Caustic Smoke - Complete Mage - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Climbing Tree - Complete Mage - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Ghost Lantern - Complete Mage - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Karmic Aura - 9th - 500 xp (on self)
    Nightmare Terrain - Complete Mage - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Resinous Tar - Complete Mage - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)

    Complete Divine
    Scent - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self)

    Book of Exalted Deeds
    Telepathic Block - 13th - 2,500 xp (on object)

    Dragonlance Campaign Setting
    Billim's Bifrost Bridge - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object)

    Dragon Magic
    Detect Dragonblood - 9th - 500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Path of Frost - 9th - 500 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Hoard Gullet - 9th - 500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)

    Ghostwalk
    Detect Ghosts - 9th - 500 xp (on self)
    Ectoplasmic Web - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object)

    Heroes of Horror
    Detect Taint - 9th - 500 xp (on self)

    Libris Mortis
    Necrotic Awareness - 9th - 500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Ghoul Light - 9th - 500 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Spawn Screen - 10th - 1,000 XP (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Ghoul Glyph - 10th - 1,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)

    Lords of Madness
    Damning Darkness - 12th 2,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Utterdark - 17th - 4,500 XP (on area) (12-25-2011)

    Magic of Inarcanum
    Detect Inarcanum - 9th - 500 xp (on self)

    Oriental Adventures
    Cloud Chariot - 16th - 4,000 xp (on object)
    Detect Curse - 11th - 1,500 xp (on self)
    Detect Disease - 9th - 500 xp (on self)
    Smoke Ladder - 9th - 500 xp (on self)

    Races of the Dragon
    Sense of the Dragon - 11th - 1,500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Wall of Scales - 12th - 2,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)

    Races of the Wild
    Returning Weapon - 10th - 1,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)

    Sandstorm
    Haboob - Sandstorm - 11th - 1,500 XP (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Wall of Magma - Sandstorm - 13th - 2,500 XP (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Wall of Water - Sandstorm - 12th - 2,000 XP (on object) (12-24-2011)

    Savage Species
    Bridge of Sound - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object)

    Stormwrack
    Tojanida Sight - 10th - 1,000 xp (on other)

    Eberron Campaign Setting
    Detect Aberration - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
    Zone of Natural Purity - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)

    Magic of Eberron
    Adamantine Weapon - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Hidden Ward - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Detect Dragonmark - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
    Clothier's Closet - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Expose the Dead - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)

    Races of Eberron
    Misrepresent Alignment - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self, others, or object) (12-24-2011)
    Unseen Crafter - 10th - 1,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)

    Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
    Moon Path - 13th - 2,500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)

    Player's Guide to Faerun (from the "comprehensive spell lists"):
    Player's Guide to Faerun
    Blindsight - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)

    Magic of Faerun
    Speechlink - 12th - 2,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)
    Suppress Glyph - 15th - 3,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
    Safe Clearing - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
    One with the Land - 10th - 1,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)
    Disguise Undead - 10th - 1,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)

    Underdark
    Reflective Disguise - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
    Serpent Kingdoms
    Fang Trap - 12th - 2,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)

    Shining South
    Arcane Sensitivity - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
    Darsson's Chilling Chamber - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
    Darsson's Cooling Breeze - 9th - 500 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
    Darsson's Fiery Furnace - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
    Sea Legs - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)

    Unapproachable East
    Greenfire - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)

    Player's Handbook
    Magic Aura - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Magic Weapon - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Obscure Object - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Undetectable Alignment - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Unseen Servant - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Detect Thoughts - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Speak with Animals - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Detect Poison - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Detect Undead - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Endure Elements - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Align Weapon - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Consecrate - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
    Desecrate - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
    Find Traps - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Glyph of Warding - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Wind Wall - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
    Magic Weapon, Greater - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Detect Animals or Plants - 9th - 500 xp (on others) (12-25-2011)
    Detect Snares and Pits - 9th - 500 xp (on others) (12-25-2011)
    Speak with Plants - 11th - 1,500 xp (on others) (12-25-2011)
    Holy Sword - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Snare - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Detect Secret Doors - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Tenser's Floating Disk - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Fog Cloud - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Spectral Hand - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Illusory Script - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Keen Edge - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Water Breathing - 11th - 1,500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Fire Trap - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Hallucinatory Terrain - 12th - 2,000 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
    Wall of Ice - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Magic Vestments - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-27-2011)

    Book of Exalted Deeds
    Blinding Glory - 17th - 4,500 xp (on self) (01-02-2012)
    Celestial Brilliance - 12th - 2,000 xp (on self) (01-02-2012)
    Vanishing Weapon - 13th - 2,500 xp (on object) (01-02-2012)


    Sourcebooks used:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Player's Handbook II
    Spell Compendium
    Book of Exalted Deeds
    Book of Vile Darkness
    Complete Adventurer
    Complete Arcane
    Complete Divine
    Complete Champion
    Complete Mage
    Complete Scoundrel
    Complete Warrior
    Dragonlance Campaign Setting
    Frostburn
    Ghostwalk
    Heroes of Battle
    Heroes of Horror
    Libris Mortis
    Oriental Adventures
    Races of Destiny
    Races of Stone
    Races of the Dragon
    Races of the Wild
    Rokugan Campaign Setting
    Sandstorm
    Stormwrack
    Eberron Campaign Setting
    Magic of Eberron
    Races of Eberron
    Champions of Ruin
    Champions of Valor


    Updates:
    - 12-24-2011: Introduced splat support for Eberron and Forgotten Realms campaign settings; introduced support for spells from the Complete Mage, Sandstorm, and Spell Compendium books (revisions) thanks to Dracomortis
    - 12-25-2011: Introduced enhanced support for Player's Handbook; revised criteria for spells' inclusion onto the Permanency list (to include certain weapon and armor enhancements); revision of the Spell Compendium list to accommodate the new criteria

    To be introduced in future updates:
    - Cleaner formatting
    - Page numbers, for reference

    "Wouldn't it be nice" list:
    - "Errata" text for each individual spell (specifying restrictions and what-have-you; this may be an impossibly, or at least unnecessarily, large task)
    - Original sources for each spell, as opposed to Spell Compendium or other compilations the spells arrive in

    Happy hunting, Giants!
    Last edited by Lonely Tylenol; 2012-01-02 at 06:47 PM.
    Homebrewiness!
    Base Classes: Blood Mage
    Prestige Classes: Trophy Hunter / Spellshatterer
    Miscellany: Permanency Support
    Resources:
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    This is nice. There has never been enough support for permanency. Actually, I hadn't noticed it though until you pointed it out. I think I quit bothering with the spell a while ago because I didn't think it couldn't do enough.
    I await updates.

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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    I propose the following additions, castable upon an object or an area as appropriate. (Also, you mention greater alarm in your spoiler as one of the spells used, but it isn't on any of the tables.)

    {table=head] Spell | Sourcebook | Minimum Caster Level | XP Cost
    Attentive Alarm | Complete Mage | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Caustic Mire | Complete Mage | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Caustic Smoke | Complete Mage | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Choking Cobwebs | Complete Mage | 15th | 3,500 XP
    Climbing Tree | Complete Mage | 9th | 500 XP
    Ghost Lantern | Complete Mage | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Haboob | Sandstorm | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Nightmare Terrain | Complete Mage | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Resinous Tar | Complete Mage | 9th | 500 XP
    Wall of Ice | Player's Handbook | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Wall of Magma | Sandstorm | 13th | 2,500 XP
    Wall of Water | Sandstorm | 12th | 2,000 XP
    [/table]
    Last edited by Dracomortis; 2011-12-24 at 08:54 PM.
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    Choking Cobwebs has some fairly insidious implications if you choose to create large quantities of Permanent Choking Cobwebs (like doubling them up for Con damage to death).

    Wall of Magma and Wall of Water are already Permanency-able, but need to be put on the list.

    I agree with the rest, but I must make special note--in my book-diving, I did find a Wall of X or X Cloud spell that had some negative effect that lasted "for the spell's duration" when contacted, or something to the effect--meaning that both the spell was clearly not meant to be Permanent, and that there are serious implications if it does. Naturally, I passed it over, but in the thousands of spells (OK, I haven't counted, but it feels like thousands) in the lists and entries that I have looked up, I've forgotten what it was.

    Just be on the lookout. :)

    Updating the spell lists with your revisions now. I have also completed my Eberron additions, and am finishing the Forgotten Realms additions. I intend to include Kingdoms of Kalamar and (what I can of) Dragonlance at a later date.

    EDIT: You edited with Wall of Ice from the Player's Handbook. This brings up a point I had been meaning to ask:

    Should I comb over the Player's Handbook and look for spells not previously allowed by Permanency to include into the list?

    I can see valid arguments being raised either way. On the one hand, there are spells that are clearly within the scope of Permanency's power as written from its existing spell list; casting Permanency on an object affected by Light, for example, is an innocuous use of Permanency. On the other hand, these spells were not included in the original spell list for Permanency, even though they were published concurrently, which suggests that it was beyond the stated intentions of these spells to be included in Permanency's writing as-is.

    This list concerns itself primarily with updating Permanency for splatbook support--where the publishers never really had a say--but I can really go either way.

    What say you, Playground?
    Last edited by Lonely Tylenol; 2011-12-24 at 09:12 PM.
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    I would be in favor of adding additional spells from the Player's Handbook, if there's no obvious way to abuse a permanent version of it.
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracomortis View Post
    I would be in favor of adding additional spells from the Player's Handbook, if there's no obvious way to abuse a permanent version of it.
    That works for me. I'll include an asterisk (*) next to spells that are being included in the Player's Handbook that are not on the existing Permanency list. This will immediately follow my wrap-up of Forgotten Realms and will be included in the update later today.

    EDIT:

    What are your thoughts on including spells which emulate magical weapon properties, such as the second-level Evocation spell Burning Sword, which gives a weapon the Flaming Burst property? I ran into a number of these (not the least of which are Weapon of Impact, Sonic Weapon and Weapon of Energy, all of the Spell Compendium, and Align Weapon, Keen Edge, Magic Weapon and Magic Weapon, Greater from the Player's Handbook). I mean, theoretically they make it possible to have epic-level weapons with these properties earlier than usual (by having a weapon with pre-epic properties and then adding Permanency to them with the above spells), but it also comes with a hefty XP cost and a limited scope (assuming we skip the Artificer infusions).

    Basically, this would be extending the precedent set by Magic Fang and Magic Fang, Greater to weapons.
    Last edited by Lonely Tylenol; 2011-12-24 at 10:03 PM.
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    It's probably best to (dis)allow them on a case-by-case basis. Align weapon, keen edge, (greater) magic weapon, and weapon of impact seem fine, since they can't stack with similar effects. Weapon of energy might be too much since it explicitly *can* stack with the emulated weapon property and could arguably stack with different damage types of itself (i.e. have the acid, cold, electricity, and fire version of weapon of energy on the same weapon at the same time). Sonic weapon is anyone's guess: while all of the other spells explicitly state whether they do or do not stack with the emulated weapon ability, sonic weapon doesn't. I'd probably leave it out just for being ambiguous.
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    I'd say that any 24 hour duration buff spell without an expensive M component should be included-- you're essentially trading XP to free up a spell slot. Endure elements and mind blank come to mind.

    Totally house rules territory, but have you considered removing permanency from the spell list as simply allowing anyone who can cast an appropriate spell to make it permanent by spending XP? One of my pet peeves.

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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    Updated with the following spells:

    Spoiler
    Show
    Spell Compendium
    Create Magic Tattoo - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)

    Complete Mage
    Attentive Alarm - Complete Mage - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Caustic Mire - Complete Mage - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Caustic Smoke - Complete Mage - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Climbing Tree - Complete Mage - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Ghost Lantern - Complete Mage - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Nightmare Terrain - Complete Mage - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Resinous Tar - Complete Mage - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)

    Sandstorm
    Haboob - Sandstorm - 11th - 1,500 XP (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Wall of Magma - Sandstorm - 13th - 2,500 XP (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Wall of Water - Sandstorm - 12th - 2,000 XP (on object) (12-24-2011)

    Eberron Campaign Setting
    Detect Aberration - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
    Zone of Natural Purity - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)

    Magic of Eberron
    Adamantine Weapon - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Hidden Ward - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Detect Dragonmark - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
    Clothier's Closet - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
    Expose the Dead - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)

    Races of Eberron
    Misrepresent Alignment - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self, others, or object) (12-24-2011)
    Unseen Crafter - 10th - 1,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)

    Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
    Moon Path - 13th - 2,500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)

    Player's Guide to Faerun (from the "comprehensive spell lists"):
    Player's Guide to Faerun
    Blindsight - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)

    Magic of Faerun
    Speechlink - 12th - 2,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)
    Suppress Glyph - 15th - 3,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
    Safe Clearing - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
    One with the Land - 10th - 1,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)
    Disguise Undead - 10th - 1,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)

    Underdark
    Reflective Disguise - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
    Serpent Kingdoms
    Fang Trap - 12th - 2,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)

    Shining South
    Arcane Sensitivity - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
    Darsson's Chilling Chamber - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
    Darsson's Cooling Breeze - 9th - 500 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
    Darsson's Fiery Furnace - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
    Sea Legs - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)

    Unapproachable East
    Greenfire - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)


    Quote Originally Posted by Dracomortis View Post
    It's probably best to (dis)allow them on a case-by-case basis. Align weapon, keen edge, (greater) magic weapon, and weapon of impact seem fine, since they can't stack with similar effects. Weapon of energy might be too much since it explicitly *can* stack with the emulated weapon property and could arguably stack with different damage types of itself (i.e. have the acid, cold, electricity, and fire version of weapon of energy on the same weapon at the same time). Sonic weapon is anyone's guess: while all of the other spells explicitly state whether they do or do not stack with the emulated weapon ability, sonic weapon doesn't. I'd probably leave it out just for being ambiguous.
    I think that's what I'll end up doing. I just wanted to make sure that it would be no great sin to do so on a case-by-case basis, or whether it should be disallowed by precedent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    I'd say that any 24 hour duration buff spell without an expensive M component should be included-- you're essentially trading XP to free up a spell slot. Endure elements and mind blank come to mind.
    On a case-by-case basis. I am thinking of doing this for Endure Elements and Undetectable Alignment. I want to say Mind Blank would be too powerful, but we're talking about a 16th-level/4,000 xp requirement... Then again, it does free up an 8th-level spell.

    I don't know. I would have to think about that. In all likelihood, it will happen on a case-by-case basis.

    Input on this matter would be appreciated, though.

    Totally house rules territory, but have you considered removing permanency from the spell list as simply allowing anyone who can cast an appropriate spell to make it permanent by spending XP? One of my pet peeves.
    Nope. The two rounds casting time of Permanency means everything in this regard, especially when you're talking about spells like the Walls and the Clouds, that have practical battleground implications that happen in real-time.
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonely Tylenol View Post
    Nope. The two rounds casting time of Permanency means everything in this regard, especially when you're talking about spells like the Walls and the Clouds, that have practical battleground implications that happen in real-time.
    Never noticed that. Build the extended casting time into the permanent casting option? I've never even heard of someone trying to cast permanency in combat.

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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    Never noticed that. Build the extended casting time into the permanent casting option? I've never even heard of someone trying to cast permanency in combat.
    I think that has something to do with the two rounds' casting time.

    Adding two rounds to the casting time is acceptable, I guess, but frankly I'd rather keep it as a spell (to force Wizards to have to take the option ). You could make it something Sorcerers just do, though.

    To answer your question from before about spells with a 24h casting duration: It will be done on a case-by-case basis, but it's worth noting that there are some spells that get a little stupid when Permanency is applied to them, all of which have 24h durations and no expensive material components (all from the Spell Compendium):
    Anticipate Teleportation (technically this doesn't matter to anyone but the stingier optimizers, but the last thing I want to do is make Rocket Tag even stupider)
    Delay Disease (indefinitely)
    Energy Immunity (permanency all energy types for total immunity)
    General of Undeath (permanently increasing the HD cap of undead you can control by an amount equal to caster level... Innocuous in most circumstances, but cheesed out when combined with everything else, utterly deserving of the 8th-level slot)
    Incorporeal Enhancement (see General of Undeath, but I'm on the fence about this one)
    Resistance, Superior (+6 permanent bonus to all saves)
    Undead Lieutenant (OK, I take it back. General of Undeath is piddling compared to this. Create multiple Permanent Undead Lieutenants for a NI control undead cap)

    However, I have decided to allow the following spells as a consequence of this review (all, also, from the Spell Compendium):
    Force Chest (technically 24h/level, but still)
    Healthful Rest

    OK. On to PHB!
    Last edited by Lonely Tylenol; 2011-12-25 at 12:27 AM.
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    My issue isn't really with Sorcerers, but for all of the casters that don't have it on their class spell lists-- which is, to say, all of them except Archivists, Chameleons, and Clerics with the Time Domain.

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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    My issue isn't really with Sorcerers, but for all of the casters that don't have it on their class spell lists-- which is, to say, all of them except Archivists, Chameleons, and Clerics with the Time Domain.
    Ah.

    If you want to houserule it in for this purpose, I see no reason not to. I don't think I would, but it's a perfectly valid reason to.
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    Just thought I'd point out, you should fix the row for Disguise Undead. Didn't enter the source, so MCL is in source and xp cost is in MCL.

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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonely Tylenol View Post
    Naturally, I passed it over, but in the thousands of spells (OK, I haven't counted, but it feels like thousands) in the lists and entries that I have looked up, I've forgotten what it was.
    According to this list, which only counts the spells for the PHB & the Spell Compendium, there are 1,607 spells. From just those two books. Of course, those are the two books with the most spells, but still. Every splatbook added at least a dozen new spells, with rare exception, so that list could be much, much higher. For instance, the ELH added the non-epic spell genesis to the SRD. And here are 11 more spells that ended up in the SRD, from god knows where (Deities & Demigods? I dunno, whatever). So that at least 1,618 to look over. Good luck.

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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Annulus View Post
    Just thought I'd point out, you should fix the row for Disguise Undead. Didn't enter the source, so MCL is in source and xp cost is in MCL.
    Thanks. I fixed it on my revision last night (to be posted today), but I haven't updated it yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    According to this list, which only counts the spells for the PHB & the Spell Compendium, there are 1,607 spells. From just those two books. Of course, those are the two books with the most spells, but still. Every splatbook added at least a dozen new spells, with rare exception, so that list could be much, much higher. For instance, the ELH added the non-epic spell genesis to the SRD. And here are 11 more spells that ended up in the SRD, from god knows where (Deities & Demigods? I dunno, whatever). So that at least 1,618 to look over. Good luck.
    Homebrewiness!
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    Miscellany: Permanency Support
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonely Tylenol View Post
    Calm down. About 605 of those are from the PHB, which has presumably been covered by the original designers (in theory). That leaves a little over a thousand spells from the Spell Compendium to look over, which cuts things down considerably. The real work will be to track down all of the spells from various splatbooks, which are myriad, & organized in vastly different manners.

    Luckily, in most cases the spells will be grouped together for easy referencing. I just wish for your sake that there existed some central list of every spell ever published by WotC. From their perspective, they consider the SpC to be the omega to the PHB's alpha.

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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    Updated with the following spells:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Player's Handbook
    Magic Aura - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Magic Weapon - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Obscure Object - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Undetectable Alignment - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Unseen Servant - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Detect Thoughts - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Speak with Animals - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Detect Poison - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Detect Undead - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Endure Elements - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Align Weapon - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Consecrate - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
    Desecrate - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
    Find Traps - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Glyph of Warding - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Wind Wall - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
    Magic Weapon, Greater - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Detect Animals or Plants - 9th - 500 xp (on others) (12-25-2011)
    Detect Snares and Pits - 9th - 500 xp (on others) (12-25-2011)
    Speak with Plants - 11th - 1,500 xp (on others) (12-25-2011)
    Holy Sword - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Snare - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Detect Secret Doors - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Tenser's Floating Disk - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Fog Cloud - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Spectral Hand - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Illusory Script - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Keen Edge - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Water Breathing - 11th - 1,500 xp (on other) (12-25-201)
    Fire Trap - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Hallucinatory Terrain - 12th - 2,000 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
    Wall of Ice - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)

    Spell Compendium
    Snowshoes - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Healthful Rest - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Ghost Touch Armor - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Energized Shield, Lesser - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Energized Shield - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Undead Bane Weapon - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Jagged Tooth - 11th - 1,500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Spikes - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Air Breathing - 11th - 1,500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Weapon of Impact - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Wall of Chaos/Evil/Good/Law - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Force Chest - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Sharptooth - 12th - 2,000 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Wall of Dispel Magic - 13th - 2,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)


    I have elected not to include support for the Kingdoms of Kalamar campaign setting, which is exclusively 3.0, and the Dragonlance Campaign Setting, for which I only have the Dragonlance Campaign Setting book (and no knowledge of other support), which I have already completed.

    For all intents and purposes, this completes the list unless people give me new ideas for spells or arguments to have existing ones taken down (I'm expecting certain Wall of spells and weapon enhancement spells to be points of contention, as well as requests for the inclusion of more Cloud/Fog spells).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    Calm down. About 605 of those are from the PHB, which has presumably been covered by the original designers (in theory). That leaves a little over a thousand spells from the Spell Compendium to look over, which cuts things down considerably. The real work will be to track down all of the spells from various splatbooks, which are myriad, & organized in vastly different manners.

    Luckily, in most cases the spells will be grouped together for easy referencing. I just wish for your sake that there existed some central list of every spell ever published by WotC. From their perspective, they consider the SpC to be the omega to the PHB's alpha.
    What concerns me about that was this:

    To be introduced in future updates:
    - Page numbers, for reference

    "Wouldn't it be nice" list:
    - "Errata" text for each individual spell (specifying restrictions and what-have-you; this may be an impossibly, or at least unnecessarily, large task)
    - Original sources for each spell, as opposed to Spell Compendium or other compilations the spells arrive in
    The list now includes 157 spells, most of which need errata text (to the effect of "this spell can be made permanent", and clauses for what happens if certain spells are counteracted, like Consecrate/Desecrate), page numbers, and (if I'm feeling particularly brave) original sources. Certainly a daunting task!

    I would like to see a universal database for spells, not unlike the one for feats. That way I have something to at least make page numbers and original sources easier for me.
    Homebrewiness!
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    Miscellany: Permanency Support
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    I have a few more spells for your consideration. I've included the page number on which each spell appears, and the spoiler contains proposed "errata" to make the spells play nice with permanency.

    Self
    {table=head] Spell | Sourcebook | Minimum Caster Level | XP Cost
    Detect Dragonblood | Dragon Magic pg. 65 | 9th | 500 XP
    Ectoplasmic Feedback | Libris Mortis pg. 64 | 11th | 1,500 XP
    Hoard Gullet | Dragon Magic pg. 68 | 9th | 500 XP
    Necrotic Awareness | Libris Mortis pg. 67 | 9th | 500 XP
    Sense of the Dragon* | Races of the Dragon pg. 117 | 11th | 1,500 XP[/table]
    *Sense of the dragon can already be made permanent as per its text in Races of the Dragon, it simply needs to be added to the list.

    Self, Another Creature, or Object
    {table=head] Spell | Sourcebook | Minimum Caster Level | XP Cost
    Returning Weapon | Races of the Wild pg. 175 | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Spawn Screen | Libris Mortis pg. 71 | 10th | 1,000 XP[/table]

    Area or Object
    {table=head] Spell | Sourcebook | Minimum Caster Level | XP Cost
    Damning Darkness | Lords of Madness pg. 210 | 12th | 2,000 XP
    Ghoul Glyph | Libris Mortis pg. 66 | 10th | 1,000 XP
    Path of Frost | Dragon Magic pg. 71 | 9th | 500 XP
    Utterdark | Lords of Madness pg. 213 | 17th | 4,500 XP
    Wall of Scales | Races of the Dragon pg. 118 | 12th | 2,000 XP[/table]

    Errata:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Ghoul Glyph: A permanent ghoul glyph that is disabled or triggered becomes inactive for 10 minutes, after which it can be triggered again as normal.
    Last edited by Dracomortis; 2011-12-25 at 10:43 PM.
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work ALWAYS in Progress)

    I agree to all the above except for Ectoplasmic Feedback, which provides a qualitative difference in access to combat-related abilities of the target. This sets it aside from enhancements such as Magic Fang, Girallon's Blessing and Sharptooth, which are quantitative, and Undead Bane Weapon, Energized Shield and Ghost Touch Armor (which affect equipment). It's for this same reason that I will not add spells like Mage Armor to the list, since Mage Armor basically gives the subject an armor score, as opposed to an enhancement bonus to existing armor.

    Affecting the subject vs. affecting the object is essentially the only difference between Bless and Magic Weapon, which makes it another point of distinction. (Magic Fang, which set the precedent that Magic Weapon is allowed on, blurs this line, but it's important to note that Magic Fang gives an enhancement bonus to a natural weapon; it does not grant the user attacks with a natural weapon, nor does it make a subject proficient in a natural weapon if they are not already.)

    I will put these up now.

    (I will not add the page numbers or errata at this time, for the sake of keeping a consistent formatting at this time, but I will store it away for when I undertake the project of page numbering for the whole list, probably sometime this week.)

    Many thanks!

    EDIT: I just noticed upon closer inspection that Girallon's Blessing produces a qualitative difference as well as a qualitative one (in addition to the additional set of arms, the subject gains the ability to make four claw attacks). This is a contradiction both of the reasoning for the rule mentioned above, as well as of my exclusion of Claws of the Bear, of the Druid spell list (Spell Compendium). Thoughts on this? Should it stay or should it go?
    Last edited by Lonely Tylenol; 2011-12-25 at 11:43 PM.
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    Updated with the following spells:

    Spoiler
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    Dragon Magic
    Detect Dragonblood - 9th - 500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Path of Frost - 9th - 500 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Hoard Gullet - 9th - 500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)

    Libris Mortis
    Necrotic Awareness - 9th - 500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Ghoul Light - 9th - 500 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Spawn Screen - 10th - 1,000 XP (on other) (12-25-2011)
    Ghoul Glyph - 10th - 1,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)

    Lords of Madness
    Damning Darkness - 12th 2,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)
    Utterdark - 17th - 4,500 XP (on area) (12-25-2011)

    Races of the Dragon
    Sense of the Dragon - 11th - 1,500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)
    Wall of Scales - 12th - 2,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)

    Races of the Wild
    Returning Weapon - 10th - 1,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)


    Currently up for discussion:
    Allow or forbid Girallon's Blessing/Claws of the Bear/Ectoplasmic Feedback and related effects which provide a qualitative difference on the subject?
    Homebrewiness!
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work ALWAYS in Progress)

    For what it's worth, I toss my vote in with refraining from adding qualitative spells onto the permanency list.
    Seems to open up too many doors.

    Also, the dispellability of permanency would be very devastating to a character that so relied on the qualitative difference. It would be a bit of a trap in that.

    Just my thoughts.
    Also, subscribing to this thread.
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work ALWAYS in Progress)

    Updated with the following spells/changes:

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    ADDED:
    Player's Handbook
    Magic Vestments - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object)

    REMOVED:
    Spell Compendium
    Girallon's Blessing - 11th - 1,500 xp (on self)


    Quote Originally Posted by ChumpLump View Post
    For what it's worth, I toss my vote in with refraining from adding qualitative spells onto the permanency list.
    Seems to open up too many doors.

    Also, the dispellability of permanency would be very devastating to a character that so relied on the qualitative difference. It would be a bit of a trap in that.

    Just my thoughts.
    Also, subscribing to this thread.
    I agree.

    Removed Girallon's Blessing and added Magic Vestments (which I had forgotten from earlier).
    Last edited by Lonely Tylenol; 2011-12-27 at 05:34 PM.
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work ALWAYS in Progress)

    I dislike that permanent spells are dispellable...

    Also, will you throw things at me for begging for the BoEF?
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work ALWAYS in Progress)

    Just curious, for the spell Animate Weapon, if you made it permanent, if you leave the 30 feet range, can it be animated again and is it permanent? or is the spell undone if you go out of range?

    Also, what are your thoughts on things that increase abilities, skills, or attack bonuses, ect. Like True strike, Owl's Wisdom, and so on? I get its asking alot, but surely there can be a fair answer? It may be a long wait for most characters as it would be most balance at higher end levels, almost epic levels.




    The next suggestion I have is, Iron Body, the protection from X series, and maybe prying eyes, and the bigby's series.

    I'm not exactly sure the formula that is used for this spell.

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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work in Progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonely Tylenol View Post
    That works for me. I'll include an asterisk (*) next to spells that are being included in the Player's Handbook that are not on the existing Permanency list.
    You might wanna state that in your initial thread. Nice work otherwise, will ping you if I find anything not here already. Personally been houseruling on the spot for them for years, permanency was never supported enough to begin with, but the fact that they failed to mention it retrospectively in further supplements (i.e. This spell may be affected by the spell Permanency) leads me to wonder if it was a spell deliberately gossed over?
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work ALWAYS in Progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    I dislike that permanent spells are dispellable...
    There's always a risk.

    This is, of course, easily countered by simply not making your highest-level spell a Permanent one (so that the temporary spells are targeted first), but making sure the Permanent spells are a high enough caster level to survive most dispel checks regardless.

    Also, will you throw things at me for begging for the BoEF?
    Shouldn't you consult a doctor if most of those spells last too long, though?

    Quote Originally Posted by killem2 View Post
    Just curious, for the spell Animate Weapon, if you made it permanent, if you leave the 30 feet range, can it be animated again and is it permanent? or is the spell undone if you go out of range?
    (EDIT: Upon review, I'm not finding any mention of objects animated by the Animate Objects spell having an effective maximum range, only of the spell itself having a maximum range upon casting. As far as I can tell, animated objects can be miles away from the caster who animated them; they just need to be within range of the caster when he casts the spell to animate them.)

    This same risk is run for Floating Disk, which is on the Permanency list (but is ultimately not worth it, as any Flight, teleportation-like ability from Dimension Door up, or any method of giving yourself a land movement speed above the Floating Disk runs the risk of cancelling it; I may remove it yet).

    Also, what are your thoughts on things that increase abilities, skills, or attack bonuses, ect. Like True strike, Owl's Wisdom, and so on? I get its asking alot, but surely there can be a fair answer? It may be a long wait for most characters as it would be most balance at higher end levels, almost epic levels.
    My opinion on things such as True Strike and especially the ability enhancement spells was summarized quite effectively earlier in this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonely Tylenol View Post
    I agree to all the above except for Ectoplasmic Feedback, which provides a qualitative difference in access to combat-related abilities of the target. This sets it aside from enhancements such as Magic Fang, Girallon's Blessing and Sharptooth, which are quantitative, and Undead Bane Weapon, Energized Shield and Ghost Touch Armor (which affect equipment). It's for this same reason that I will not add spells like Mage Armor to the list, since Mage Armor basically gives the subject an armor score, as opposed to an enhancement bonus to existing armor.

    Affecting the subject vs. affecting the object is essentially the only difference between Bless and Magic Weapon, which makes it another point of distinction. (Magic Fang, which set the precedent that Magic Weapon is allowed on, blurs this line, but it's important to note that Magic Fang gives an enhancement bonus to a natural weapon; it does not grant the user attacks with a natural weapon, nor does it make a subject proficient in a natural weapon if they are not already.)
    Basically, the ability enhancers provide an effect that your character did not have before (an enhancement bonus to an existing score), and affect the player, not a particular item; thus, they fall solidly under the criteria of things such as Bless and Ectoplasmic Feedback. The ability enhancers are actually precisely the precedent that I was trying to avoid, and they are the reason I ended up taking Girallon's Blessing off the Permanency list (as it provides you access to natural attacks you are not assumed to have prior to its casting).

    Permanent True Strike is never balanced. It has a standard action casting time and a one-use duration for a reason: the poor action economy and limited payoff are what deter spamming of this ability during every combat. If you really want those types of spell uses in your game, Persistent True Strike is a seventh-level spell, and Persistent Owl's Wisdom (and variants) are eighth-level spells, assuming no metamagic mitigators (such as Metamagic School Focus, Arcane Thesis, Incantatrix's Easy Metamagic ability, Divine Metamagic, or anything else of the sort), and are entirely within the scope of the rules to use. It's worth noting that Persistent True Strike is a useless six-level jump, however, as it will always only affect "your next single attack roll", and Persistent animal ability enhancers would come at level 15, when you're assumed to have access to +6 items that offer enhancement bonuses (which don't stack), making it only ever useful for secondary (and tertiary) enhancements.

    The next suggestion I have is, Iron Body, the protection from X series, and maybe prying eyes, and the bigby's series.
    Iron Body provides a qualitative difference (many, in fact). So do the Protection from X spells.

    Prying Eyes is not broken from a game balance perspective, but could not be Permanencied because of a number of inherent contradictions within the mechanics of Prying Eyes that make it incompatible (the proximity rule, which it shares with Floating Disk, is one; the fact that the eyes are destructible, which it shares with Spectral Hand; and the fact that the eyes are single-use, which it shares with True Strike, and disappear after relaying information). Note that the first two issues individually haven't stopped a spell from being made Permanent as per this list (and the first never stopped Dancing Lights from appearing on the core list); the third, however, is a deal-breaker, as you're basically making a single-use item Permanent... Until discharged.

    Arcane Eye has a considerably better shot at being made Permanent, since it is not affected by any of the above problems, but see below.

    The only issue I have with Hand and Fist spells being made permanent is that there is no limit to the number of Hands you could theoretically Permanency. If you wanted, you could create an arbitrarily high number of Hands with insidious consequences.

    As a general rule, the precedent for spells with stacking effects, and spells with no explicitly worded limit on quantity, can be inferred from this post, made earlier in the thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonely Tylenol View Post
    Choking Cobwebs has some fairly insidious implications if you choose to create large quantities of Permanent Choking Cobwebs (like doubling them up for Con damage to death).
    EDIT: That said, the Hand and Fist spells may follow the precedent set by Animate Objects. I'll look into it.

    I'm not exactly sure the formula that is used for this spell.
    I haven't written a comprehensive criteria for Permanency, and since Wizards never wrote one, it can be assumed that no such list exists; however, there are a few criteria that I've established through this list that one can safely use to rule out spells that are incompatible with the list:

    Spells that affect yourself, another creature, an object, or an area
    MUST: Contain wording that explicitly prevents the spell from stacking with itself, or stacking with other, related spells, indefinitely. If multiple instances are allowed, there must be an explicitly worded limit, and multiple instances of identical effects can't stack. (Examples for creatures: Create Magic Tattoo, Enlarge/Reduce Person; Examples for objects: Keen Edge, Holy Sword, Fire Trap; Examples of violators: Choking Cobwebs' Constitution damage)
    MUST NOT: Provide untyped bonuses or penalties of any kind. These always stack, and always interact with themselves.
    MUST NOT: Have a limited number of uses or charges. This includes single-use spells (such as True Strike), as well as spells that discharge after fulfilling a certain condition (such as Prying Eyes discharging after returning to your hand, or Protection from Energy discharging after preventing a fixed amount of damage).
    MUST NOT: Have a duration of Instantaneous. You cannot Permanency a spell without a duration; either its effect occurs for a single instant before dissipating (see most blasting spells) or has a permanent effect which is not kept permanent by magic (certain Conjuration [Creation] spells fall under this category).
    MUST: Have a fixed (and rather) limited duration, if the spell has a negative effect at all. By extension, the spell MUST NOT have a negative effect that lasts "for the duration of the spell", or any similar wording; the duration of the effect that it provides must be independent of the spell's duration. (Examples: Karmic Aura, Stinking Cloud)

    Spells that affect yourself or another creature
    SHOULD NOT: Provide a qualitative difference in the creature. This includes, but is not limited to: attacks that the creature is not assumed to already have access to (such as a natural attack not normally granted to a creature, such as a bite, slam, claw, talon, or tail attack); a movement mode that the creature is not assumed to have access to (such as a flight, swim, or burrow speed); a bonus that the creature is not assumed to already have access to (such as an enhancement bonus to an ability score, insight bonus to attack rolls, armor bonus to Armor Class, or competence bonus to a skill); or a property or ability of any other kind that the creature is not assumed to have access to (such as Flaming Burst and related properties, any spell-like abilities, any energy resistance or immunity, any spell resistance or immunity, any damage resistance, or any immunity to adverse effects). Common exceptions to this rule include detection spells (such as Arcane Sight, Detect Aberration and Detect Good/Evil/Chaos/Law, to self only), minor enhancement bonuses to existing qualities of the character (such as Magic Fang to existing natural attacks, and Resistance to existing saves) and size bonuses (Enlarge/Reduce Person). Subversions of this rule (which were not included in the core criteria, but are included in this new criteria) are Sharptooth and Jagged Tooth on existing natural attacks (which does not stack with itself, or any iteration thereof; this follows the precedent set by Magic Fang), means of subverting certain detections (such as Undetectable Alignment and Dead End), means of basic survival in harsh environments (such as Air Breathing, Water Breathing and Resist Planar Effects), enhancements and properties that affect equipment (provided that they do not stack with any other enhancements and properties that provide related or identical effects), and Create Magic Tattoo (the one direct violation of this rule for which there is no precedent; incidentally, it's also one that I'm tempted to take down, for this reason).
    SHOULD NOT: Be a spell that a Sorcerer or Wizard cannot cast, especially if it is a spell with "Range: Personal". This has been subverted on occasion, however (Examples: Tojanida Sight, Greenfire).

    I don't have comprehensive criteria for spells that should or should not be Permanencied, but this is a good place to start. I'll probably add more as they occur to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    You might wanna state that in your initial thread.
    I thought I did.

    I'll add it, thanks.

    Nice work otherwise, will ping you if I find anything not here already. Personally been houseruling on the spot for them for years, permanency was never supported enough to begin with, but the fact that they failed to mention it retrospectively in further supplements (i.e. This spell may be affected by the spell Permanency) leads me to wonder if it was a spell deliberately gossed over?
    Dracomortis and I have actually found a select few spells that actually do have Permanency written into their writing. I've only seen two splatbooks that have explicitly mentioned Permanency: Races of the Dragon and Sandstorm. Dracomortis pointed out spells in both lists, and I found another spell or two in Sandstorm that is eligible for Permanency as-written. There is no consistent patter for me that suggests that the spell was deliberately glossed over or simply forgotten, which leads me to think that there are maybe one or two people at Wizards of the Coast that ever cared about Permanency, and the rest never thought about spell interactions during the creation process.
    Last edited by Lonely Tylenol; 2011-12-30 at 12:38 AM.
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work ALWAYS in Progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonely Tylenol View Post
    Spells that affect yourself or another creature
    SHOULD NOT: Provide a qualitative difference in the creature. This includes, but is not limited to: attacks that the creature is not assumed to already have access to (such as a natural attack not normally granted to a creature, such as a bite, slam, claw, talon, or tail attack); a movement mode that the creature is not assumed to have access to (such as a flight, swim, or burrow speed); a bonus that the creature is not assumed to already have access to (such as an enhancement bonus to an ability score, insight bonus to attack rolls, armor bonus to Armor Class, or competence bonus to a skill); or a property or ability of any other kind that the creature is not assumed to have access to (such as Flaming Burst and related properties, any spell-like abilities, any energy resistance or immunity, any spell resistance or immunity, any damage resistance, or any immunity to adverse effects). Common exceptions to this rule include detection spells (such as Arcane Sight, Detect Aberration and Detect Good/Evil/Chaos/Law, to self only), minor enhancement bonuses to existing qualities of the character (such as Magic Fang to existing natural attacks, and Resistance to existing saves) and size bonuses (Enlarge/Reduce Person).
    The bolded portion is a little unclear: are those examples of acceptable bonuses, or unacceptable? I would have assumed the former except that the other examples are all fairly clearly unacceptable. A bit of rewording might be good just in case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work ALWAYS in Progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by tuggyne View Post
    The bolded portion is a little unclear: are those examples of acceptable bonuses, or unacceptable? I would have assumed the former except that the other examples are all fairly clearly unacceptable. A bit of rewording might be good just in case.
    They are listed as examples of unacceptable bonuses, and for a reason. An armor bonus to an existing set of armor (as the spell Magic Vestments) is quantitative and applied to equipment, which is acceptable; an armor bonus being given to a creature which does not already have one (as the spell Mage Armor) is qualitative (unarmored ~> armored) and applies the bonus directly to the player, which is unacceptable.

    The only spell I have permitted that explicitly breaks this rule is Create Magic Tattoo, which sets a dangerous precedent, and may be taken off the list as-is.
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    Default Re: Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work ALWAYS in Progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by tuggyne View Post
    The bolded portion is a little unclear: are those examples of acceptable bonuses, or unacceptable? I would have assumed the former except that the other examples are all fairly clearly unacceptable. A bit of rewording might be good just in case.
    The fact that those are under the SHOULD NOT heading should make it clear that they are unacceptable.

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