Azazel vs Iceman

[Tyndmyr]

This was the result of a discussion with coworkers...I'll make no secret of the fact that I'm on Azazel's side.

Rules: Has to be a straight up fight. Bampf in and stab while sleeping does not count.

As per the comic powers, we'll assume both are fully powered up(for those unfamiliar with them, wiki lists both sets of powers quite well).

Victory is defined as a kill, permanent imprisonment, etc. Merely running away is insufficient.

Power Breakdown:
Azazel: Immortal, world class swordsman, perfect teleportation without limit(including inter-planar), can disguise appearance, paralyzing/disintegrating rays, black magic. Also, telepathy to other demons.

Iceman: Immunity to cold, ice armored body, body takes form of organic ice, can create ice from water in proximity to him, as well as freeze other things nearby due to lowering temperature. Can travel as liquid, solid, or gas water, though shifting takes notable energy. Can heal organic ice form with access to water. Also, can grow body beyond normal size with access to sufficient water.


Secondary scenario: Movie Iceman vs Movie Azazel(powers as per the Xmen movies).

[Friv]

IIRC, Comic Azazel was designed to be a reasonable threat for the entire X-Men team, and thus would flatten Iceman. Iceman is powerful, but not that powerful.

Movie-wise, it would be a curbstomp. Movie Iceman just isn't that powerful yet, and we have no way of knowing if he ever would be. Meanwhile, movie-Azazel was a terror. He teleports over, grabs Bobby, hops into the sky, and Bobby is now dead because he doesn't have enhanced agility to stop Azzie from letting go.

[Bastian Weaver]

Oh please. Iceman was created by Stan the Man Lee.
Azazel was created by Chuck Austen.
Nuff said.

[Obrysii]

Not too familiar with them, but isn't Iceman an Omega-level mutant later on? Wouldn't that sort of imply he'd win?

[Tyndmyr]

Oh please. Iceman was created by Stan the Man Lee.
Azazel was created by Chuck Austen.
Nuff said.

I don't get it. So...which one would win in a fight?

[Bastian Weaver]

I say Iceman. And the main reason is, of course, that Stan Lee and his creations are cool, and Chuck Austen and his creations are the opposite of cool. I mean, really... hello, I'm Azazel, I went to Earth and fathered multiple teleporters in order to be able to go to Earth? Nightcrawler is a demon, and Warren Worthington III is an angel? Come on.
Also, I doubt there's going to be a "Mammomax: The Movie" anytime soon...
Sorry. Back to the question.
During the Draco arc (which was when Azazel was introduced) Iceman has demonstrated an ability to drain water from his opponent's body, instantly killing one of Azazel's rough and tough minions and restoring his own body pretty much from scratch.
I say Azazel goes down.

[Tyndmyr]

Not too familiar with them, but isn't Iceman an Omega-level mutant later on? Wouldn't that sort of imply he'd win?

Omega-level people don't win all fights. More to the point, Iceman has never actually used powers on par with Omega level people...he'd get utterly smoked against any of them I can think of.

[Seraph]

Omega-level people don't win all fights. More to the point, Iceman has never actually used powers on par with Omega level people...he'd get utterly smoked against any of them I can think of.

as I understand it, Iceman's qualification as an Omega level has more to do with how broad his powers theoretically are than how strong he is in a straight fight.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I don't get it. So...which one would win in a fight?

One is an original X-man if not terribly creative in concept... the other is a filthy piece of discontinuity from a patently disgusting and offensive time in X-men that makes me nostalgic for the bad old days of Xorneto "mad old terrorist ****" and drug addicted Nazi.

So Iceman wins by virtue of his opponent not ever existing.

[Bastian Weaver]

My thoughts exactly.

[Traab]

Hmph, dropping iceman fails due to his ability to create ice slides to control his fall. Meanwhile, azzy takes some nasty frostbite damage just from grabbing hold of the human torch's polar (heh heh) opposite.

[shadow_archmagi]

Stan 'The Man' Lee?

Look upon his works and despair, ye mighty

[chiasaur11]

Stan 'The Man' Lee?

Look upon his works and despair, ye mighty

Still better than any given Chuck Austen comic.

(More seriously, the man is a living legend for a reason. I mean, not downplaying either Jack Kirby, or Stan's tendency to overhype himself ["Spider-Man didn't have a sidekick, but he couldn't talk to himself aloud all the time. That's why I invented thought balloons" "I decided Spider-Man shouldn't be an adult, but shouldn't be a kid either. That's when I invented teenagers." "Back in WWII, I was working at Marvel when I decided, you know what, there should be countries not run by Hitler. That's why I invented the Allies."] but he wrote "This Man, This Monster". If it was all he did, he'd still deserve cameos in every Marvel movie ever.)

[Dr.Epic]

Azazel

If he's immortal he's just gonna keep fighting. Locking him away won't do anything because it's just like time out. He can escape and the fight will just resume.

[Devonix]

Azazel

If he's immortal he's just gonna keep fighting. Locking him away won't do anything because it's just like time out. He can escape and the fight will just resume.

If you really want to do a waiting game Iceman is immortal as well as long as he stays in Iceform and he doesn't have to change out of it except when he wants to. They can both wait for eternity

[Devonix]

Though I originaly thought this was Aquaman vs Iceman. in which case Aquaman curbstomps Bobby

[Soras Teva Gee]

If people want to go with this... well Bobby Drake still wins because at this point he's essentially an Ice Elemental with a bit of Water Elemental thrown in. Punching his head off will not kill him, any more then it would kill a block of ice. He was apparently recently reduced to water vapor and survived.

So Bobby Drake is now in the category of needing special methods to be disposed of. Like thrown into the sun or something, if you had the super strength to lift a whole iceberg and fly it there.

[Bastian Weaver]

Devonix, actually, Iceman did fight against Aquaman during All Access. Aquaman was losing badly until Green Lantern arrived to help him.

[The Glyphstone]

So, is this a fight between the characters, or a fight between their creators/writers? A lot of the comments seem to think the latter, but I don't think Stan Lee would last very long in a fistfight at this point.

[Zaydos]

Azazel takes an early advantage, using his disintegration bolts (does he actually have those, I haven't read the X-Men outside of the Essentials for the most part, and of the 3 wikis I visited only one listed that as one of his powers) to hurt Iceman but being made of ice Iceman easily recovers. Finally, though, Iceman just freezes everything making it impossible for Azazel to get good footing. When the demon-esque mutant slips for a second Iceman starts freezing him. As Azazel slows down his doom is ensured.

You have to remember this is a stand-up fight; not "who would kill" and not an assassination where Teleportation becomes much more useful. Azazel has bolts and dodging, Ice-Man can reduce things to absolute 0, and seemingly reverse entropy.

[Traab]

Agreed. The worst part for azazel is, he doesnt dare get in close combat with iceman due to taking incidental damage just from being too close to a mobile ice storm. Just the radiant cold would be enough to cause serious damage to him, let alone actually trying to TOUCH iceman. Remember that scene in xmen 2 when nightcrawler was trapped in that ice attack storm was using to stop strykers son? Thats what would be happening to azazel. Its a battle of attrition imo, and iceman has the edge.

[Devonix]

Devonix, actually, Iceman did fight against Aquaman during All Access. Aquaman was losing badly until Green Lantern arrived to help him.

did aquaman at any poinit use his water elemental control abilities? aka absorbing and controlling water. Turning it from one form to another? Draining all the ice from Iceman is a pretty quick way to remove him from a fight.

[The Glyphstone]

did aquaman at any poinit use his water elemental control abilities? aka absorbing and controlling water. Turning it from one form to another? Draining all the ice from Iceman is a pretty quick way to remove him from a fight.

Didn't someone above mention Iceman can drain water from his opponents/surroundings to replenish his ice? Seems like that wouldn't be a quick defeat so much as a never ending tug-of-war, or boil down to whose elemental control was more powerful.

[Bastian Weaver]

Devonix, yes, he did, but only when GL used his power ring to melt the ice Bobby was using. Ice turned into water, which invigorated Aquaman and gave him the edge. Perhaps he was unable to control Bobby's ice directly for some reason, or maybe Bobby's control was stronger.
Glyphstone, at that moment Iceman wasn't as powerful as he is now, he couldn't turn his body into ice yet.

[Devonix]

Devonix, yes, he did, but only when GL used his power ring to melt the ice Bobby was using. Ice turned into water, which invigorated Aquaman and gave him the edge. Perhaps he was unable to control Bobby's ice directly for some reason, or maybe Bobby's control was stronger.
Glyphstone, at that moment Iceman wasn't as powerful as he is now, he couldn't turn his body into ice yet.

I can buy that. Iceman actually being an element vs Aquaman controlling an element through magical powers seems like Iceman would have the edge in it.

[leafman]

How does Azazel lose in this fight? By the parameters set in the OP victory is assumed when one combatant is dead, imprisoned, or otherwise completely incapacitated. The OP also states that Azazel is immortal (can't be killed) and has perfect teleportation (can't be imprisoned). Two of the win conditions Azazel is immune to, so that would only leave incapacitation, which with his ability to teleport it would seem he could easily dodge any attack. The only way I can see Azazel losing is stupidity on his part or or having some sort of cool down timer on his teleport.
It doesn't mean Azazel will win, but it seems the best possible outcome for Iceman is that it will end in a draw.

[Xondoure]

It's a tough one. Azazel has teleportation which is always fun but I don't see how useful it would be against someone without any real weak points. I'd say Iceman wins because he's just so much cooler.



YEEEEAAAAAAAAH

[Coidzor]

Hmph, dropping iceman fails due to his ability to create ice slides to control his fall. Meanwhile, azzy takes some nasty frostbite damage just from grabbing hold of the human torch's polar (heh heh) opposite.

He can leave and go get gloves before Iceman can react.

Because unless he can become so cold that being in line of sight of him is basically death for all organic life as soon as he wills it... We got stuff that can be used to handle him.

Assuming Azazel can teleport with others as seems to be taken as a given, that is.

If people want to go with this... well Bobby Drake still wins because at this point he's essentially an Ice Elemental with a bit of Water Elemental thrown in. Punching his head off will not kill him, any more then it would kill a block of ice. He was apparently recently reduced to water vapor and survived.

Steal space suit. Grab. Drop by sun. Win in the space of, what, 3 seconds plus the time it takes to get dressed in a space suit/assemble one and then teleport inside of it.

The fact that forcing the other to run away, even temporarily, does not result in one side winning means that the context continues. This gives a slightly greater advantage to Azazel, as it can be used to obligate Iceman to leave a sessile, secure form and assume a more tractable, mobile form.

It also means that Azazel has access to any and all tools he could possibly need.

[Bastian Weaver]

Coidzor, that could be a successive tactic. Alas, it would require a rather high intellect, which doesn't seem to be one of Azazel's strong points. Iceman isn't too bright, too, but... well, I probably shouldn't start about Austen again.

[Devonix]

[QUOTE=Coidzor;12428954]He can leave and go get gloves before Iceman can react.

Because unless he can become so cold that being in line of sight of him is basically death for all organic life as soon as he wills it... We got stuff that can be used to handle him.

Actually YES Yes he can be so cold that its impossible to even get near him without every cell in your body freezing. Its just that he's... you know not a mass murderer.

Iceman's capable of completely stopping nuclear reactions. Ok you teleport him to the sun. Well to do that you need to touch him. Touching Iceman is pretty much a death sentence in this type of fight. Bringing him into space in ice form doesn't hurt him. and Iceman is IMMUNE to heat. He's gone up against fire elementals and obbliterated them. He's fought in Hell. Iceman pushing himself can turn off the Sun.