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  1. - Top - End - #151
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Knowledge (geography) is a not particularly useful skill, though, even though it fits thematically with the PrC. And 8 ranks seems a little much.
    well, seeing as ranger 3 would get you the endurance feat horizon walker wants, I'd imaging the intent was for HW to be primarily a ranger prc; rangers can probably spare the skill points, even if it isn't very useful to them. and lots of prcs have reqs which work only fluffwise. dimension door is probably a lot cooler than whatever skill you would have used those points on anyway, so.

    nicely enough, ranger 3 leaves exactly two levels before entering horizon walker.

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    About odd skill rank requirements. Keep in mind, either Human Paragon/Able Learner (IDR which, AFB) are laughing at you right now.
    Yes, Human Paragon and/or Factotum Dip/Able Learner get around skill reqs quite handily - but they also may not fit with your character concept, or cost you levels in another class that you really want or need.

    Also, two of those options are Human only, so they can be a little restrictive.

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    confused Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Yes, Human Paragon and/or Factotum Dip/Able Learner get around skill reqs quite handily - but they also may not fit with your character concept, or cost you levels in another class that you really want or need.

    Also, two of those options are Human only, so they can be a little restrictive.
    Human is the opposite of restrictive. Whats wrong with skills and feats to meat trick prereqs? Unless you have a race restricted class, in which case you have more problems then you want to admit.

    Human Paragon gives 2/3 casting progression, custom class skills, gives trailing class skills (Or is that Able Learner), ability points, and another feat. If you would have to do something much more obtuse to get into the class otherwise, this is the best option.

    Medium BAB.

    In other news, I might have Human Paragon memorized without ever using it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Human is the opposite of restrictive. Whats wrong with skills and feats to meat trick prereqs? Unless you have a race restricted class, in which case you have more problems then you want to admit.

    Human Paragon gives 2/3 casting progression, custom class skills, gives trailing class skills (Or is that Able Learner), ability points, and another feat. If you would have to do something much more obtuse to get into the class otherwise, this is the best option.

    Medium BAB.

    In other news, I might have Human Paragon memorized without ever using it.
    human is restrictive compared to no restrictions. sometimes, you need something other than human to qualify for things! or maybe you want something a feat won't get you!

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by sreservoir View Post
    human is restrictive compared to no restrictions. sometimes, you need something other than human to qualify for things! or maybe you want something a feat won't get you!
    Point taken. I say buy a template, and shucks to your "racial traits".
    My class features/feats fu will best your racial fu!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Master of Shrouds: Augment Summoning for a PrC that specializes in summoning incorporeal creatures that don't use either stats to which bonuses are provided by the feat.
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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Human is the opposite of restrictive. Whats wrong with skills and feats to meat trick prereqs?
    Won't someone please think of the vegetarians!!!

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Rubik View Post
    Won't someone please think of the vegetarians!!!
    HEY! I like my meat-based prereqs!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    HEY! I like my meat-based prereqs!
    anyone else thinking of a cooking-based campaign now? if nothing else, it'd give people a reason to be able to make a D20 profession (chef) check to detect ingested poison snuck into food.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    anyone else thinking of a cooking-based campaign now? if nothing else, it'd give people a reason to be able to make a D20 profession (chef) check to detect ingested poison snuck into food.
    Calzone golems! Gelatinous JellO cubes!

    Gives a new meaning to the term 'meat shield'.

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon View Post
    Master of Shrouds: Augment Summoning for a PrC that specializes in summoning incorporeal creatures that don't use either stats to which bonuses are provided by the feat.
    Ya that never made sense to me. I always swapped that with corpse crafter... At least they gain some benefit from that one >.>
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  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Some prerequisites just seem like obstacles to discourage absolutely everyone from dipping into the prestige class. "Hold on, I have to have Toughness, Maximize Spell, Far Shot, Mobility, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, AND Vow of Poverty, and then I have to defeat a flamingo using solely nonlethal damage?"
    Last edited by Steward; 2012-01-09 at 11:44 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Steward View Post
    Some prerequisites just seem like obstacles to discourage absolutely everyone from dipping into the prestige class. "Hold on, I have to have Toughness, Maximize Spell, Far Shot, Mobility, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, AND Vow of Poverty, and then I have to defeat a flamingo using solely nonlethal damage?"
    Don't all your characters meet those prerequisites. Mine all do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hazuki View Post
    ...Silva, you are a scary person.
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  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Silva Stormrage View Post
    Don't all your characters meet those prerequisites. Mine all do.


    I lol'd. epic profane lifeleech avatar, btw. who did that for you? it looks awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rubik View Post
    Calzone golems! Gelatinous JellO cubes!

    Gives a new meaning to the term 'meat shield'.
    heehee. wouldn't that be fun?
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

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  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    I lol'd. epic profane lifeleech avatar, btw. who did that for you? it looks awesome.
    Szilard made it. He is really good at them
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  16. - Top - End - #166

    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    6 pages and no mention?

    I should have /threaded this thing with my Prerequisite and Early Entry Handboo

  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Didn't some FR book mention being able to meet racial prereqs using a few skill points in knowledge local or something similar?
    I work very irregular hours and usually very long ones at that. If I do not respond to something in a timely manner pester me in an OOC thread. If something big is happening in the Middle East I will probably be busy for a few days because I am the idiot wearing kevlar and interviewing people on the fronts.

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  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Not for racial pre-requesites, for [regional] feats you could take 2 (I think) skill ranks in say Knowledge Local (Rashemen) and be able to take feats from that region like Battle Jump; but sadly Player's Guide to Faerûn (I think) overuled that and because it is a 3.5 update it takes precedence.
    Just call me Dusk
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  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Not for racial pre-requesites, for [regional] feats you could take 2 (I think) skill ranks in say Knowledge Local (Rashemen) and be able to take feats from that region like Battle Jump; but sadly Player's Guide to Faerûn (I think) overuled that and because it is a 3.5 update it takes precedence.
    Oh, that sucks. So much for quick fixes. Racial/setting specific prereqs suck in general.
    I work very irregular hours and usually very long ones at that. If I do not respond to something in a timely manner pester me in an OOC thread. If something big is happening in the Middle East I will probably be busy for a few days because I am the idiot wearing kevlar and interviewing people on the fronts.

    Do you like MTG? Do you like Gitp? We have a Discord server for like minded players.

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  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Not for racial pre-requesites, for [regional] feats you could take 2 (I think) skill ranks in say Knowledge Local (Rashemen) and be able to take feats from that region like Battle Jump; but sadly Player's Guide to Faerûn (I think) overuled that and because it is a 3.5 update it takes precedence.
    I didn't realize there were subcategories of Knowledge (Local). I thought Local was the subcategory?

    It makes no sense, but isn't that how it works?
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  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Thumbs down Re: Worst Prerequisites

    I think that division was exclusively for the realms. Besides it was in 3.0
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Rage Mage

    Because if it rhymes, it was to be a great PrC!

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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    I didn't realize there were subcategories of Knowledge (Local). I thought Local was the subcategory?

    It makes no sense, but isn't that how it works?
    there were in 3.0, you'd need knowledge (local) (thay) or wherever. in 3.5, you just need knowledge (local) and it'll work wherever you are, even somewhere you've never been before. it indeed makes no sense, but it's a lot more logical from a game design perspective. why would a player buy ranks in knowledge for 1 community when so much of the game assumes you'll travel around? short answer is they wouldn't, so make local useful or everywhere.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

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  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    I am sorry if someone already posted this one but => I loath Ur-Priest Pre-reqs... The way I read it => you need 32 skill points spent across 5 class skills, Iron Will & SpellFocus[Evil] & base +3 Fort/Will

    I know a surefire way to kick ass with it [Savage bard=>Ur=>Theurge], but...

    One of my players loved an Ur-Priest Concept. But since he was new, I didn't want to hand him virtually the single most powerful character in current party and tell him to go to town... So I was trying to find a balanced Ur-Priest entry...

    Since being a fallen cleric is terribly crippling beyond reason, and Dual Bard-Cleric is Terrifying, finding middle ground lead me to THIS permutation=>

    Marshal 5/Ur-Priest 5 ... as a *Drum roll* Jaebrin(p.92 in MMV)... They get a Spell Craft as class skill and other stuff. It took me 4 hours at least to make this combo... Result was actually surprisingly in exact middle of a power curve
    Other way included same but Human with Skill Knowledge for the blasted Spell Craft, a Monk/warlock(or Able Factotum) permutation, Dusk Blade & i forget but some kind of outsider... End rant. ^^
    Last edited by Red_Dog; 2012-01-15 at 02:30 AM.
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  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dog View Post
    I am sorry if someone already posted this one but => I loath Ur-Priest Pre-reqs... The way I read it => you need 32 skill points spent across 5 class skills, Iron Will & SpellFocus[Evil] & base +3 Fort/Will

    I know a surefire way to kick ass with it [Savage bard=>Ur=>Theurge], but...

    One of my players loved an Ur-Priest Concept. But since he was new, I didn't want to hand him virtually the single most powerful character in current party and tell him to go to town... So I was trying to find a balanced Ur-Priest entry...

    Since being a fallen cleric is terribly crippling beyond reason, and Dual Bard-Cleric is Terrifying, finding middle ground lead me to THIS permutation=>

    Marshal 5/Ur-Priest 5 ... as a *Drum roll* Jaebrin(p.92 in MMV)... They get a Spell Craft as class skill and other stuff. It took me 4 hours at least to make this combo... Result was actually surprisingly in exact middle of a power curve
    Other way included same but Human with Skill Knowledge for the blasted Spell Craft, a Monk/warlock(or Able Factotum) permutation, Dusk Blade & i forget but some kind of outsider... End rant. ^^
    I like entering as a human monk2/swashbuckler3. you have almost all the salient skills and keeper of the forbidden lore takes care of the rest. monk gives your wis to AC from now on (and stunning fist if anyone gets too close) swashbuckler lets you dump str for those early levels where you're a mere mortal and makes it easier for you to land a hit on someone with your mitts, and it frees up more points for int so you can enjoy insightful strike making your punches hurt more (natural weapons = light weapons) and give you plenty of skill points to fulfill the ridiculous prereqs for UP. when you're done, it'll look something like:
    monk2/swash3/ur-priest10/hierophant5
    season to taste, serve with wine, though it's one of the least cheesy uses of ur-priest (it even finishes the class)
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
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  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    monk2/swash3/ur-priest10/hierophant5
    Good build, but as usual => Where is spell-craft coming from? Needs to be Human and Burn feat Skill Knowledge [Spell Craft]. Otherwise solid balanced Ur-Priest that won't send a DM into blind rage ^^

    Spell Craft btw was a single most annoying thing that good potential candidates just didn't have. Warlock had EVERYTHING, but didn't have a fort save >_>, Dusk-blade didn't have Bluff (fighter[thung] could solve that I guess)
    Last edited by Red_Dog; 2012-01-15 at 02:49 AM.
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    Default Re: Worst Prerequisites

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dog View Post
    Good build, but as usual => Where is spell-craft coming from? Needs to be Human and Burn feat Skill Knowledge [Spell Craft]. Otherwise solid balanced Ur-Priest that won't send a DM into blind rage ^^

    Spell Craft btw was a single most annoying thing that good potential candidates just didn't have. Warlock had EVERYTHING, but didn't have a fort save >_>, Dusk-blade didn't have Bluff (fighter[thung] could solve that I guess)
    I believe Keeper of the Forbidden Lore, but I'm not positive.

    Warlock5/Mindbender1 gets you the fort save.
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    In Book of Vile Darkness, Boost Spell Resistance.
    Does what it says on the tin, +2 SR.
    Prerequisites: any EVIL alignment
    Because only the blackest of souls would sport such demented fantasies of increasing this most unholy defense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    there were in 3.0, you'd need knowledge (local) (thay) or wherever. in 3.5, you just need knowledge (local) and it'll work wherever you are, even somewhere you've never been before. it indeed makes no sense, but it's a lot more logical from a game design perspective. why would a player buy ranks in knowledge for 1 community when so much of the game assumes you'll travel around? short answer is they wouldn't, so make local useful or everywhere.
    In 3.5 it's supposed to reflect how quickly you are able to absorb new knowledge about a location and how good you are about finding out things. I really think that should be rolled into gather information but then again if I designed 3.5 a lot of things would have been different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dextercorvia View Post
    I believe Keeper of the Forbidden Lore, but I'm not positive.

    Warlock5/Mindbender1 gets you the fort save.
    My bad, But that still means you need to be Human ... >_> Not that I hate humans. I love them, but it gets boring for characters some times ^^

    Also => Mindbender combo is lvl 6... Was trying to get in by lvl 5. ^^

    To Peacenlove=> don't you know, resisting wizards is a capital offense? = P
    Last edited by Red_Dog; 2012-01-15 at 03:23 AM.
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